Make CCIA Discriminatory

[Snakebittenn]

As was discussed in Discord tonight. 

Personally, it makes no sense to me that NT pays non-Skrell aliens like 75 cents for every dollar a human makes, coupled with all the xenophobia we're supposed to be having in the lore, yet there's no bias against them. Hell, even other cultures that NT might not like a lot like Dominia are completely equal in the eyes of HR. 

Why? 

[Gollee]

Because the role of CCIA is hard enough due to player non-cooperation without pouring petrol on the fire.

[Snakebittenn]

4 minutes ago, Gollee said:

Because the role of CCIA is hard enough due to player non-cooperation without pouring petrol on the fire.

Xenophobia is what they signed up for when they decided to play an alien, knowingly or not. 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I would stop playing aliens entirely if it was codified in stone for staff to intentionally handle these complaints to CCIA against nonhumans in a biased manner. It would weaponize them more than they already are. This has my -1000% support.

[Garnascus]

CCIA do not need to explicitly discriminate against aliens. Everyone can be equal. Maybe humans are just more equal. 

[Arrow768]

Well it's a interesting question.

One option might be "positive discrimination".

I.e. Humans, if reported by a alien, are more likely to go without having any actions taken against them than other species(especially for minor things such as discrimination at the workplace,...)

That would not make it easier to weaponize IRs and would allow more leeway to play anti-xeno chars

[Xelnagahunter]

As a former CCIA member, this is one of the things I think I can weigh in on why leaving them unbiased is important.

First is OOC reasoning. It's easiest just to make them this way. If we decided to make CCIA biased how do we regulate it at all? Do we assign bias to individual CCIA members so that we can insure that each race has someone on the IC team that hates them? If not what happens when too many CCIA agents hardcore hate one race? I don't think people realize just how much CCIA have to play their CCIAA in their head while doing something else.

Second is, why wouldn't NT throw out something that appears to be a true equal opportunity bone? Sure, they are paid less. Maybe they are given shittier jobs or restricted from having some of the higher end ones, but why not give them an equal means to resist physical and emotional oppression on station? This will give them a reason to feel protected and stay on with the company as cheaper labor.

Anyways, those are my thoughts on it. It isn't really broken and there are reasons for it to make sense both IC and OOC.

 

[Mofo1995]

I dunno how I feel about this. People need to be able to have faith in the bureau for it to stand. If we start codifying bias into regulation, then xeno players will be under-powered when filing IRs against favored species, in the case of positive discrimination, and favored species will be overpowered when filing IRs against others. It might be lore consistent, but functionally, I maintain it would make CCIA work much harder and damage the good faith people put in the bureau when they filed an IR that it will be treated with justice.

[Hartburry]

Hey

Edited September 27, 2021 by Hartburry

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

22 hours ago, Hartburry said:

Hey I just want to say something about this as I was the founder of CCIA. I actually like this idea, you guys might not remember this but CCIA was designed in order to //curb regular player elitism//. The whole reason I started this was due to this very reason. And what do regular players do? Play their cool whitelisted alien character. 

 

I do not pretend to be any bit in touch with what the CCIA deals with today. But this actually is a genius idea so long as it's used for good and not to punish bald/new players.

Wont this encourage player elitism with cool human characters?

[Butterrobber202]

41 minutes ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

Wont this encourage player elitism with cool human characters?

I'm all for Human Elitism, but ye I can see the turnoff you might get for this.

One way to handle this is Postive Discrimination and Minor Negative Discrimination, meaning the CCIA are biased up to character removal/firing. (meaning that in character deletion cases, the bias is totally removed in favor of an equality approach so a character isn't removed based on unfairness, IC or not.)

And when I say, Minor Negatives, I mean RP punishments that don't affect the player too much, like extra fines or 'reformation' classes. 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

6 hours ago, Butterrobber202 said:

I'm all for Human Elitism,

Player elitism based on species.

[Ornias]

Just now, Senpai Jackboot said:

Player elitism based on species.

Do you think that player elitism and character elitism are identical Jack Boot?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

2 minutes ago, Ornias said:

Do you think that player elitism and character elitism are identical Jack Boot?

Over time, yes. Once the culture really sets in. 

[Scheveningen]

citation needed for that assumption.

[Butterrobber202]

4 hours ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

Player elitism based on species.

how would you feel about the other half of my post, with the negative RP punishments that don't affect the player to bad?

[UnknownMurder]

On 27/04/2019 at 04:04, Gollee said:

Because the role of CCIA is hard enough due to player non-cooperation without pouring petrol on the fire.

This. We have players who cannot keep their tears in or/and feels offended OOCly. 

[Mofo1995]

All right, the agents and I did a lot of talking about it. Here's a logic exercise. Walk into your workplace, and without any provocation, call any african american coworkers you have the "n" word. What will the result be? Will it be a temporary reprimand and a small fine? Or would it be just about immediate job termination? The bureau isn't going around terminating contracts for racism as it is, every case of racism that comes our way just usually ends with a slap on the wrist. That's ALREADY a huge discriminatory policy. Absolutely no one has ever been fired for saying catbeast or lizard, or whatever. No one has been fired for denying service to aliens or anything. Do they usually wind up with temporary fines and a theoretical sensitivity training that happens in their char background? Yes. But what modern corporation gives anyone that kind of dramatic leeway? And there's people who would argue our current corporations are already discriminatory as they are. Hard baked into the system is already discrimination, if you're afraid of weak reprimands and small fines, then fine, just don't play a belligerent openly racist character. Most racists I've known IRL were not shouting slurs into peoples faces unprovoked like already happens on station. They usually chatted about it in privacy. If you wanna be bold, you gotta man up, be bold, and face the consequences. I'm not about to hand out a free N-word pass, because honestly, it's draining to be playing a tajara and just called catbeast, rat, or furry by belligerent drunk assistant #5781, over and over and over again. Not even like with any escalation like an argument breaks out, or after some conversation they just decide they don't like me, or in some way we're even minorly at odds, but just "I saw a tajara so I'm gonna call them a cat lol i'm so funny." Every once in awhile? Sure, I'm down for some racial tensions. But when people are just crude brash and completely lacking any tact about it in addition to being just constant, it's more disenfranchising than fun. Calling random people you've never met before racial slurs just for the sake of doing it is bad roleplay. 

 

On the other hand, the bureau really does not have the time to be tying up agents and time investigating every single report of "lol he called me a catbeast" just to end it with warnings and small fines. It's way too time consuming for how minor the punishment is just gonna be in the end every single time. Most of these instances should never have even made it to the IR forum because they're petty and should've been handled by command staff and security during the round where it happened. Recognizing that none of the regulations provided a clear cut violation, with harassment only really working for sustained insults and slander only working for, well, slander, we've decided we're going to be updating the slander regulation. We're going to change slander to "Slander or Verbal Abuse," so that way you can get some instant gratification for your slap on the wrist right there on station without us having to waste all the time and resources to do it for you. The punishment times and fines will remain the same as slander currently is, it's just going to be added so that we can automate this so it stops getting escalated to IR level and gets handled at the ground level.

 

As far as discriminatory practices in IRs, I'm really not willing to escalate or deescalate punishments based on race. The laxness for how NT corp handles racism in the workplace is already plenty as far as I'm concerned. I'm really not willing to add an extra step to every single IR by saying "Oh, well, I was gonna give this guy a 500 credit find and two month temp reprimand... but he's a tajara, so I'm gonna make it a 700 credit fine and perma reprimand." I'm not looking to sit down and have to consider all the races involved for every single IR, and arbitrarily determine a higher and lower punishment based on the relative social standings of everyone's race involved. It's too much extra work, this cake already takes way too long to bake, basic icing will just have to do.

 

 

[Soultheif96]

I agree with Mofo1995 here, it is rather petty of an IR to deal with and it takes the time and resources out of CCIA, away from the more important, pending IRs. I am not going to reiterate as it will go in circles, so it will be best it we just change Slander to Slander or Verbal Abuse so it is done then and there.