Staff Complaint - Senpai Jackboot

[VTCobaltblood]

34 minutes ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

That is not what happened. I communicated it with you and you said you wanted to postpone talking about someone transitioning out until later. As I have said several times, you were fully aware that it was on the agenda. You postponed the conversation. You were extremely eager to open the slots and you were super energetic and eager to hire Abosh and when I told you to wait a minute you talked to me how I think I talk to Mofo all the time - "Hurry up old man"

From my side, I told you that we'd probably have to dismiss a deputy if you open the slots, and you said you wanted to talk about it later and that it would probably be nursie.

You never got back to me about it.

You keep saying the same thing over and over and I'm tired of replying to you with the same things over and over, so this will be up to admins to resolve. Though I would be really interested to see where I promised you to postpone any talking. By saying "we can do that later", I did not mean "I will do it later", I meant "I will do it later if needed". 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Your omission of "if needed" is not fair to justify while saying my ommissions are evidence of malacious incompetence.

And in any case, it was needed. It still seems to me that you are angry that i postponed the talk and decision at your request because you thought I'd give you an exception or change my mind.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[Mofo1995]

I want to highlight some inconsistencies with Elohi's contributions to this complaint. Namely how aspects of his complaint are directly contradictory to the original complaint, and I don't think it's fair to charge jackboot with two completely opposite accusations.

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As well, I believe that the current system we work under has a severe lack of checks and balances. The amount of control we have for a loremaster or even a loredev is nil. I would like the ability to form a VONC (Vote of No Confidence) if required. If our trust in a loremaster or loredev has collectively expired, we have hardly any means to do anything about it. 

This is a post from Paradox earlier in the thread. I'm not putting words in their mouth, but I draw a connection between this and the staff complaint thread which brings into question Elohi's activity as a developer. Consider that as a functional example which Paradox's proposal here may address.

Now here's some relevant things Elohi has addressed as complaints against Jackboot.

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1. Poor leadership: Lets things either bad things sit or fails to let other people know things

9. Easily influenced/"manipulated"/too soft: Says yes too often to too much without thinking on if he should or not, either to avoid hurt feelings or because he likes someone.

I can't help but feel this is in relation to a screenshot of a discussion Elohi and I had... and I do deeply apologize for posting screenshot logs of my conversation with Elohi, I'm really sorry, but I can't just let that go, it's not right for JB to be charged for not firing/demoting you and not firing VT in the exact same complaint when they're two contradictory demands. I really prefer to keep things like DMs between myself and others private, but this is too relevant.

Spoiler

Please no one think less of Elohi for this, he was heated and we all say things we regret when we're angry. I really didn't want to post these, but it's not fair to Jackboot, and this is a thread about Jackboot's mistakes. He can't be guilty of not firing VT for posting a staff complaint about Elohi's activity and simultaneously guilty of not demoting or firing Elohi for inactivity. At the tail end here, I tried to open up conversation about how combative he was being with Jackboot over refusing to give him comment permissions on a google document, but when I saw how hostile it immediately became I took a step back. Jackboot eventually did get around to being more firm with him, which is what I suspect the accusation of bullying comes from... but... how else was he supposed to handle the following?

Spoiler

Now this isn't a complaint about Elohi, this is a complaint about Jackboot, so please no one give Elohi any rough times. Jackboot is a friend of mine, as well as many on the lore team are. And I understand not all of my friends get along. Coalf and Jackboot for instance were two of my closest and they really didn't enjoy each other. Now I didn't come into this saying "Jackboot did nothing wrong, away with all of you" but on these subjects where I clearly know and can prove innocence, it would be outright wicked of me to not speak up. There's a lot of very legitimate and strong complaints about Jackboot in here, and I understand everyone's frustration. But he hasn't been playing favorites among lore developers, and he certainly hasn't been "bullying."

Here's the discussion in Dionaea chat, spoiler free, of Jackboot getting more firm with Elohi:

Spoiler

I cut off the logs at a specific spot, namely, the spot where Jackboot gave up on trying to get comment permissions for the google document and started providing feedback in the cooperative lore work discord as Elohi requested. Is that really bullying? In the end he accommodated Elohi's request. And this brings me back to accusing Jackboot of contradictory charges. How can we say he's too strong handed and too lenient at the same time? He can be one or neither, but it's unfair to call him both in the exact same complaint and expect both charges to stick.

I apologize again for leaking logs, I agree completely that he mishandled the skrell deputy situation, but the following I outlined is unfair to him, and I believe strongly that he handled the VT-Elohi affair in a manner which was unbiased and proper. As the staff complaint against Elohi/Neinbox stated, Dionaea had only one character played only one time in an entire two week window, and firm resolute action to step in and take a more personal involvement in enforcing the generation of more Dionaea lore activity was absolutely necessary. I believe the charge of him being overbearing, while it might be true for others (I often feel he encroaches far too much on Tajara lore, but it keeps the gears turning in times where I'm going too slowly) is wrongly applied here, since direct loremaster intervention was absolutely required. So charges:

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5. Pushing personal agenda/Overreaching: Often tries to include himself in projects past the point of simply being a head loredev, may attempt to make projects out of things that aren't his or take over.

6. Harassment/Pressuring: Keeps making subtle suggestions or repeatedly peruse something even after being told no, will throw weight around of being head loredev if he doesn't get his way.

I feel (specifically in Elohi's case, not dismissing it as a possibility for other devs and lore teams) are entirely justified as Jackboot's job to salvage what was months of lore draught and a dying playerbase for one of our races, and that he should not be punished for this case specifically. It would have been an entirely valid maneuver to remove Elohi from the lore team for his combative nature to other developers, especially in combination with his inactivity, and I can see the complaint about Jackboot's softness being totally valid here. But the opposite side, taking a direct approach to remedy what should be seen as a failing of a developer rather than loremaster, is not something that should be counted against him.

[Bygonehero]

I already spoke to boots about my part of the complaint. He and I resolved the issues, but if he wants he can post them here. Part of the complaint I had was the visibility of his activities with other species and their lore. It is very discouraging to see the sheer amount of news that is written for the three most popular species(Human/Tajara/Unathi), while the least popular ones 'seem to' at first glance, receive fewer. Again, at first glance, you could think that Jackboots is failing in his job as an editor, allowing the slow death of these species while promoting the already strong parts of the lore.

While this is objectively true in article count, article count alone is not an indication of favoritism towards any particular set of species. Boots has on many occasions confided into me the difficulty of writing for Vaurca, and he isn't alone in this assertion. Despite this, he has organized or assisted me more than once in my own projects, providing input that is valuable to the creation process. I believe that he does this with all species given my own observations. 

The other part of the complaint was a personal one, that we both resolved in DMs. I can share it if you wish, but it involved paranoia on my part and general miscommunication on both of our sides. 

[Bygonehero]

@Neinbox In Jackboots defense, he communicated to me the difficulties you both were having with each other. I do not believe he intends to come across how he does with you. He asked me about my experiences working with you, and how to best avoid arguments. If he was intentionally meaning to make you feel this way, he would not be concerned with making you not feel this way.

[VUX]

I was pinged or something so I feel I ought to clear the air a little bit on the thing about me.


I wasn't pressured into becoming a deputy, however I was encouraged to stay on even through a pretty ridiculous and overblown reaction to my presence and the work I'd been doing. If I've had a shitty attitude since then, it's because that experience soured me on Aurora a bit. Fundamentally I'm not unhappy about staying on, so I'd rather not be used as ammo against Jackboot, thanks.

[Neinbox]

Did a quick skim let me just say that @Mofo1995, this had absolutely nothing to do with the complaint between me and VT. Absolutely. Nothing. I dropped it. I said that I would explain and expand upon the rest of my original post later but you had to go and assume and post shit with "not to make them look bad but sorry I had to do this" is poor. That was supposed to be a private and confidential conversation. I told you I was upset. And after I blew off the steam I came back and said I was calmer and communicated more calmly. There's already a large rift between me and VT and now you're showing something that I was privately confiding in with you about someone else because I KNEW I was upset and wanted a one-on-one instead to avoid drama and now there's going to be an even larger divide. I've since had time to think to myself about the whole thing and decided to drop it because I got too emotional about something that I strongly felt was an injustice and have since decided that the best chance at anything is to try to talk to VT. I let them knew how I felt so they'd understand where I'm coming from as a start before we actually try to work through it as you need to know the problem before you get to the solution. I want to be able to at least work with them and nothing more, but I suppose you have just ruined as well as my reputation by spreading what was supposed to be confidential information, so thanks for that. Real shit move, and yet more drama. You made it personal and about me when you posted something personal about me.

 

Either delete it to right some of your wrong or don't because the damage has already been done. Either way, I'm very upset right now. Showing PMs between the "defendant" and the "accuser" is one thing. But showing private messages of someone confiding in another privately about a third party is not.

 

PS- Ironic that you're posting what was supposed to be confidential information saying how it's "relevant" about confidential information I also thought was relevant yet never received.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Neinbox

[Neinbox]

I'll make the proper posts and re-do my original one once I return so people can actually read what I intended to post the first time around instead of having assumptions being tossed around yet again.

 

But with all of this drama popping up now, needless to say I'm becoming pretty done.

[Garnascus]

Please do not post if you are not involved. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Garnascus

[SleepyWolf]

accept this small morsel of horrible paragraph structure as my contribution to helping understand issues.

In analyzing why I joined this complaint and reading the rest of the posts explaining why the miscommunications happened, I realized most of the issues aren't just Jackboot, but other people who influence Jackboot or talk through Jackboot to the team. I'm going to remain in the sidelines since I'm having to work through real life duties, but I generally understand the reason for the complaint and joined it because of the miscommunication with the deputy slot for Nursie.

I also agree JB puts a lot of his own politics into things, and is easily influenced by people he likes. Aut'akh for example, a huge chunk of the loreteam was basically calling for them to be reverted from lore, if we'd put it up for vote at the time I'm sure it would've been about a 66% majority to remove or decanonize them, however I'm biased against them. If we need data on it, I say we put a vote into the current staff lore channel to see how people feel now, a few months later. I understand we might not be a democracy, but if the majority of staff who understand lore believe something doesn't fit I think they should be heard and something should happen.

Anyways, a lot of these issues are possibly more team-based, if this complaint does anything it should start making us staff begin actively analyzing things we do more, as well as calling out people who do - which I think people have done in the past with JB, I don't have the receipts on those.

i'm tired there's my words they may not make sense since i've been up for 30 hours i'm a college student

 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

13 hours ago, SleepyWolf said:

I also agree JB puts a lot of his own politics into things, and is easily influenced by people he likes.

Can you describe how?

13 hours ago, SleepyWolf said:

 

 

13 hours ago, SleepyWolf said:

I understand we might not be a democracy, but if the majority of staff who understand lore believe something doesn't fit I think they should be heard and something should happen.

Something did happen. The final launch of the autakh was radically different from the original pitch due to concerns brought forth. Now they are consistently one of our moat most popular subspecies.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[Skull132]

13 hours ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

On 10/05/2019 at 08:29, SleepyWolf said:

I also agree JB puts a lot of his own politics into things, and is easily influenced by people he likes.

Can you describe how?

The politics deal is what I've heard consistently for the past 4 months, from both within and without the lore team. Example one is the Akutha, which at first attempted to implement a niche sociological experiment in a manner which was devoid of logic. All the while trying to paint it off as "good" or in a general positive light. Specifically in this case: the idea that the central AI of the akutha wasn't a slave-master, despite the lore literally saying that it was able to influence the akutha's subconcious decision making processes (and please do not proceed with pedantry as a defence: this issue was discussed to death and if half of your own writers find the matter in question badly presented or illogical, then it's a bit more difficult than, "You're using the wrong terms!").

Another example that I've heard consistent noise about is the treatment of Atlas for the past 4 - 5 months, and how they've been made into a caricature. Something which, according to your detractors, they were not previously. The speculation goes that since Atlas' politics are relatively well opposed to your own views, they are not being a fair treatment. Though, since I have not had reason to fully look into this matter, I cannot comment on the specifics. Simply know that this criticism has existed for a relatively long time, and this is how it looks.

[Faris]

I’ll try to be short since there’s a lot of volume here. Don’t be shy to ask for more clarification.

I want to say that Jackboot has the capacity to do good, I feel he’s come a long way from what he was before. Yet, I wouldn’t be involved here if I didn’t notice any flaws.

Firstly, the most recent issue seems to be this whole deputy limitation. I support the rule as it makes sense. My issue comes from the fact that there seems to be an issue in communication or formalizing it. Personally, I’m not too happy and would not have applied had I known someone would’ve been removed because I was accepted. The timing of the announcement was odd. I could also be misrepresenting something said by Alb so feel free to correct me, but after being accepted as deputy and the rule announced, @Alberyk mentioned that no one needed to be removed, but the rule was a necessity. You can find the whole conversation in the lore chat on staff discord, it wasn’t really a long one.

 

 

Again, no issue with the rule itself. My issue was how it’s being handled.

Secondly, a recent theme would be the usage of “red” themes. Normally not an issue but it feels like there’s been a lot more recently that it treads into the territory of injecting personal political commentary. 

For this I’ll cite a proposal for the depression arc. @Garnascus and @Skull132 have read this I believe so correct me if I’m wrong. I’m also paraphrasing this. In essence the station would be dirtier and lacking. There were going to be two groups, Syndicalist and Populists. If for example you wanted insulated gloves, you’d grow potato’s for the coop. Similar aspects also discussed passionately in the political thunderdome. I admit this point is a bit iffy since intent is hard to gauge behind a screen and text, but I’m not the only one that holds this same opinion on this.

Thirdly, mismatched focus to the lore team. Now, I understand that it’s impossible for a person to give them same focus and attention to everything. Different things resonate differently. Yet I feel what Jackboot has done in this regard to be a bit improper. Joining some mediums of lore groups but not others when they’re on the same level. I’m quoting Coalf on this as compared to other lore teams, the tajara team found themselves constantly micro’d by Jackboot. In essence for this, I’m trying to emphasize there’s uneven quality control here. On one hand he may be overbearing on one team and on the other hand he leaves another team to their own devices. 

Fourthly, again quoting Coalf here. He found it less problematic to have someone else push his work under their name than it was for him to do so personally. I think to have this mindset is troubling and points out an issue to possible bias that might go beyond what is acceptable. I can’t personally say for sure as the point of view I’ve seen and heard this from is only one sided. 

 

The thread had a few other points but I don’t feel like I can address them adequately due to lack of involvement or evidence. I may also be forgetting something, busy week. 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

1 hour ago, Skull132 said:

Example one is the Akutha,

When is the last time you have gone over them? I need to say again they are distinct from their original set up which i acknowledged was confusing. Theyre now a semi popular species and people more or less get it in its current iteration.

 

1 hour ago, Skull132 said:

Another example that I've heard consistent noise about is the treatment of Atlas for the past 4 - 5 months, and how they've been made into a caricature. Something which, according to your detractors, they were not previously.

Atlas was a radical right wing movement on day 1 before I touched them. Their lore canonization application described them as fascist. They used a black solar cross as their flag. They wanted to expel all xenos and operated armed paramilitary organizations. Theyre described as the third way which is what fascism says it is.

with the human devs atlas was calmed down but theyre radicalizing recently. At the same pace as their rivals are radicalizing. The polarization is the entire arc of the alliance right now. Atlas in 2019 with pegasus zundy and myself is pretty authoritarian in order to solve the crippling crisis' and humiliations facing solgov. 

They werent made a caricature they were born one. I mean if you want me to return to the old fashioned pre-Jackboot ATLAS because you think its more reasonable then i dont know what to say. The issue seems to be theyre actually in the news doing what they said they wanted to do and arent apologizing for it.

Edit: they were originally denied a lore canonization in 2015 for being a fascist hate group then were added in as antagonists later in 2015 in the sol alliance election.

Also please address VTs primary complaint.

 

1 hour ago, Aboshedab said:

 Fourthly, again quoting Coalf here. He found it less problematic to have someone else push his work under their name than it was for him to do so personally.

What?

 

1 hour ago, Aboshedab said:

For this I’ll cite a proposal for the depression arc. 

That was cancelled. Im getting confused as to why i keep getting dragged for experimental projects i cancelled in the planning stage for criticisms against them. Shall i keep all ideas only in my head lest one of them is bad?

1 hour ago, Aboshedab said:

Secondly, a recent theme would be the usage of “red” themes. Normally not an issue but it feels like there’s been a lot more recently that it treads into the territory of injecting personal political commentary. 

Where? In tau ceti? Because this phenomenon is in the alliance behind the martians. The players rejected it coming to TC and that was abided by.

Can you tell me where the reds are presenting my political views into our universe?

 

1 hour ago, Aboshedab said:

@Alberyk mentioned that no one needed to be removed, but the rule was

Skull132 is the decider as the head developer. He is my boss.

 

1 hour ago, Aboshedab said:

Thirdly, mismatched focus to the lore team.

This has been discussed and resolved with the relevant teams and i am going to give them more time.

1 hour ago, Aboshedab said:

On one hand he may be overbearing on one team and

Mofo has not complained about the overbearing dominance i loom over him with, unless he has lying to my face all this time.

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[Skull132]

12 minutes ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

1 hour ago, Skull132 said:

Example one is the Akutha,

When is the last time you have gone over them? I need to say again they are distinct from their original set up which i acknowledged was confusing. Theyre now a semi popular species and people more or less get it in its current iteration.

Did you actually read my point?

1 hour ago, Skull132 said:

Example one is the Akutha, which at first attempted to implement a niche sociological experiment in a manner which was devoid of logic.

And it took a decent amount of loud noises to make this not be the case.

Re: Atlas. As said, I've not investigated too far, simply forwarding what I've heard. And since I am not the only one to hold this opinion, perhaps it is a matter worth providing introspective on.

14 minutes ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

1 hour ago, Aboshedab said:

@Alberyk mentioned that no one needed to be removed, but the rule was

Skull132 is the decider as the head developer. He is my boss.

For the sake of clarity and future reference. You could have indeed transitioned Nursie to another task, something which was actually even discussed once during the initial discussion I think? How the mandate of 2 deputies per team was achieved was largely irrelevant, though suppose I did not explicitly mention that you had alternatives. Mostly because my patience on the issue was done.

[Neinbox]

Not sure if the above was a general announcement or not (assuming it is), but as one of Jackboot's volunteers under his supervision, I am adding a complaint against his abilities as a manager. And honestly, if the community has a poor experience in speaking to him as well Now, for the proper post since my first was butchered from some sort of error. I'll just go through and go over the points for the big picture here with what images I have. Sorry in advance, but the pictures are going to make it long. Feel free to skip the images if you want, but I feel that they are the meat of the issue and help give perspective and perhaps show what others may have also been experiencing. Keep in mind that this is not an attack on Jackboot but rather me stating my severe dissatisfaction of the way of how JB handles things.

So, back to the original list:

Spoiler

1. Poor leadership: Lets things either bad things sit or fails to let other people know things as well as what's listed below

2. Poor decision-making: Constantly makes questionable choices I.E. past events he has ran

3. Poor communication: Talking with JB is often very confusing, or outright frustrating where it is sometimes difficult to understand what he's saying, if he understands what is being said, and if what he says is a joke or not because he tends to joke around a lot.

4. Bad prioritization/Personal agenda: Will often push his own species first before making sure that everyone else is taken care of, i.e. Auk'tah full-body prosthetics before Human FBP's.

5. Pushing personal agenda/Overreaching: Often tries to include himself in projects past the point of simply being a head loredev, may attempt to make projects out of things that aren't his or take over.

6. Harassment/Pressuring: Keeps making subtle suggestions or repeatedly peruse something even after being told no, will throw weight around of being head loredev if he doesn't get his way.

7. Poor handling: If under pressure himself, JB seems to become stressed and take it out on others. Ever sense the Auk'tah he's become increasingly short-tempered and this past week has become a bully.

8. Ignores others: Often goes around asking for thoughts on things/critiques/advice/etc. and when someone provides it, will completely ignore it if it's negative or deviates from his original plans.

9. Easily influenced/"manipulated"/too soft: Says yes too often to too much without thinking on if he should or not, either to avoid hurt feelings or because he likes someone.

10. Hypocritical: Fights against things that are contrary to his beliefs without consideration, and then after a bit will turn around and do the same thing but at a ridiculous scale

11. Projects: Always finds some way to insert political views into almost any and every conversation.

12. Lackluster creativity: Subjective as an actual problem, but will consistently and heavily rely on human history instead of attempting to make up fresh or unique scenarios and instead make something bland and predictable.

 

Small things first: 2, 3, 8, 9, 11, 12. I don't really feel that this requires screenshots as I said, they're small but constant annoyances that can make it difficult to talk to JB and I've had people complain about the same things to me with their own experiences with him, which is why they're being included at all. If any are seen as irrelevant, then I will delete them.

Spoiler

 

I always find it difficult to communicate with JB sometimes and it can be hard to tell if he's serious or not with how he jokes, or will sometimes inappropriately (as in wrong place wrong time) joke when you're trying to have a conversation with him (remember the "I am literally shaking, my hands tremble as I write this" phase?). Sometimes conversation is confusing with him because he jumps around in the topic; you think he's saying one thing and when you continue he'll tell you it's something else. And if you ever send him an amount to read be it a paragraph or a whole page, he will usually skim through it, pick out a few words he sees, and assemble it into whatever he thinks is said. It's pretty frustrating to deal with, and I've had quite a few come to me for translation after having spoken to JB if he's saying what they think he's saying. No, I'm not going to post names or screenshots because I actually respect their privacy and they will post when they're ready.

JB has also constantly come to me or to others for advice, showing us his plans and asking us what we think. We'd give our thoughts and whatever serious concerns we had, and they are usually dismissed/ignored because they deviated away from what he wanted instead of thinking about it and going, "maybe they're right?" I haven't really seen that much and it makes me wonder why we are approached with ideas from JB or why we are told to discuss things when the bossman does what he wants anyways. I've seen people back up his ideas or look at people's fresh ideas and run with them, but I don't really ever recall him agreeing with others and going "yeah, it seems a little much to me" on his plans, or even on other's when they're discussed and seems to be for every single thing presented. Sure, this is a game where we have a bit of creative freedom with space and everything. But consistencies need to be taken into consideration. "This is the future. Would people really fall for the same simple trick that happened in the distant past? Would this person really be able to respond this way despite what's in their way? Would this society reasonably have the means to do what is wanted with how it currently stands?"

A head lore developer isn't there to just let everyone do what they want, it's also to moderate it and make sure that it fits with the rest of the lore. It's okay to say no sometimes to people for the better of the community. It's also a good idea for a head lore developer to change their original ideas and listen to suggestions instead of using the same and oldest trick in the book, copying (by their time) ancient human history instead of coming up with fresh, new, daring and exciting ideas to prevent things from becoming predictable and stale. The original Frost arc was fun and I adored the Drea arc to pieces.

As for the projection, I'm not talking about the lore politics of the other species. They live in societies where they do have politics. That's fine. What isn't fine is trying to press politics (i.e. make me make the species political) on a species i.e. Dionae who do not have, are not interested in, and find no reason to involve themselves in politics. They just find it all petty and silly. Politics are made to control something usually, whether it be resources, territory, money, religion, or even lives. Things that species with many needs that grew up in a competitive environment need and are worth fighting over for them even if it is to ridiculous extremes. Dionae don't need politics because they don't have the same wants or needs as other species. They're nomadic, their resources are plentiful and widespread, money is usually used to buy things like clothes and food and shelter none of which they actually need, their religion is more an ideology and a more simple and to them universally-understood basic idea that ties in with how they operate, and they don't care about their lives so much as their knowledge.

But this goes a little beyond trying to pressure me trying to involve my species into politics or lore-related at all as well and I've been approached by people who have told me that they aren't a huge fan of approaching JB even for lore reasons because of the awkwardness caused by communication issues and because a lot of conversation is often turned politics by JB.

 

 

Now the big things that to me, actually do matter in JB's capacity to be the head lore manager: 1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10. I'll try and provide screenshots for these where I can.

My biggest gripe with the prioritization is, yes, I do have a problem with the fact that a species (putting aside my feelings that they don't fit the lore altogether for this bit) that just recently and somehow obtained FBP's do have their FBP's first before a species that should have had them a very long time ago in-game as humans lore-wise had theirs longer than a newly acquainted group. "But human lore devs weren't pushing for it at the time"/"no one spoke up about it"/"you can make it happen". No. The community gets excited about new things especially if it's radically different and I get that, but the head loredev should have made sure that a species that should have had the same mechanics already implemented a long time ago get the feature first because it existed first instead of handing out shiny new things and letting those who have been waiting for it for their species left behind. And it's not someone else's job to make sure that things with other species that existed first are implemented when I just work with Dionae. I have nothing to do with human lore. Why would I intercede on their behalf?

That's not my job, but the head loredev's. But I do still see the injustice of ignoring a group and pandering  to your own and the head loredev allowing it to happen. Make both features happen for both species, sure, whatever. But it should have been done fairly. You should have helped out the human team instead of pushing your own species first to make sure they got what they were supposed to have before you gave the same to your own as the one who overlooks all of us to make sure that we get what we need and that we're all on track and that everything's fair to not only the team but the community. "Be proactive."

Next up is something I've been noticing over time. I was given explicit permission by the JB to mute the server because I was getting stressed out and tired of the arguments between me and a very select few members of the staff. Deciding I didn't want to be a part of that anymore because it would happen whenever I attempted to make certain conversations, I asked JB if I could leave the staff discord because I didn't feel welcomed and thought it would be the best for everyone if I left. My life had taken a turn for the worst and it was affecting my ability to communicate with others on certain matters, and that was brought to my attention as well. So, I did exactly what was asked of me: I muted the channel but kept the announcement channel open, and always took a look at Lore Writer pings, putting in my two cents if I had any to spare, and opening a Dionae Discord server with a cooperative lorework channel between me, JB, Sleepy, and later inviting JB's deputy and another member to work on Dionae lore. Later on, I also made an apology announcement to those involved:

Spoiler

I ended up privately PMing individuals apologies instead or just talking to them when they were active instead.

So, I went about my separate way for a while, doing my work on Dionae in solitude without bothering anyone and vice versa while I tried to handle a major situation off-screen. Then, a few months later when I was recovering from my trauma and taking a bit of a breather from playing but still doing lorework, I get a popup from JB that he wants me to come back despite knowing that I have gone through something traumatizing and was taking a little me-time to recover, demanding that I return in a crass manner. During this time I've been thinking about doing something major with the Dionae and I've been toying with several ideas, then choosing one and getting involved in a large project in favor over the rest. the project at this time was hush-hush because it was still in it's developmental phases where I mentioned it to another loredev I would be working on it with very late in 2018, but had to pause it due to work on the NBT and other projects as well as my recovery, and contact was sometimes touch and go because our schedules were different. But big plans were still building and we had at least a solid idea of the outline.

Spoiler

I tell him I wasn't feeling up to it, still uncomfortable with the idea due to my past experiences, and JB tells me that there are concerns despite no one coming to me to check in and ask themselves. But I've told JB previously what my gripes were, and told them that I had little confidence in telling them because I felt like there were never any consequences for those who were openly rude to other staff members. Turns out that someone was in fact kicked from the team.

I've made an announcement/talked to other staff that I had the staff server muted but was still reachable through PMs or pings as well, as I left those on for the staff server. I'm also needing to repeat my reasons why I don't really talk with others on their plans, simply because there's nothing between them and Dionae to be had. I'd essentially be the person to send "k" because I have nothing to add to the conversation.

Me restating that there have been one or two very staff-server active members that I simply don't get along with so I choose to avoid conflict by not commenting on otherwise unimportant things.

Then, a couple days later, I get this. This was a part of a different conversation that led up to JB once more bringing up the issue, but the way of how it was worded really rubs me the wrong way, and at this point I am getting rather irritated and upset with JB constantly bothering me for something that I've already talked to them about with serious/solid reasons to do what I do.

Spoiler

Me proving that I am very much so still active in doing lorework, even if I'm not being social.

Not long after, I am harried by JB yet again and at this point I am seriously feeling harassed. I believe I've already brought this up with administration on how JB is upsetting me with the constant pressure to do something unnecessary that makes me uncomfortable, but nothing ever really came of it. At this point I've been feeling resentment from being constantly bothered by the topic and my irritation about it shows.

Spoiler

I asked what the big deal is with JB kicking people from the Discord as punishment for inactivity but are still staff because I find it backwards, and the question is avoided.

I bring it back up. The irony here is that staff are/were being kicked from the staff server for inactivity when it is a mandatory requirement to remain in the staff server. I again repeat myself. After this point some things were discussed which I ended up coming to an understanding about such as why projects were being shared with other staff even if they don't involve the other species, but the biggest problem is that he is repeatedly pressuring me to do something that wastes my time and benefits no one by simply making empty statements.

 

The next thing is how JB tries to control things and another example of poor decision making. One of the earlier examples that I have is when JB contacted me about Dionae nymphs. He wanted to make it so that Fahjil, the vice president of Tau Ceti, for whatever reason, to make an NT corporate regulation that already exists, that Nymphs are considered animals and are protected against harm under animal protection rights. On the Dionae wiki before I became loredev, it was already listed that they are considered animals and are protected by such as a general law, making it apply to anything in Tau space including corporate regulations such as NT because they are in Tau space. The conversation was had late at night was when I was having one of my migraines and giving me a shorter fuse than usual for full disclosure, and I agree that I was being rude but was too tired and in pain at that point in time to care. With my previous encounters with JB when it came to me "looking busy" in the staff lore chat, I was still rather reluctant to talk to him especially when I was having great difficulty in showing him how it wasn't such a great idea and he was being very persistent, and ended up twisting and manipulating my words which made me very, very bitter towards him more than what I already was feeling at the time. This is a longer read, and I apologize but I feel that it's important to show it all for the full picture.

Spoiler

Talking about asking CCIA to just clarify regs. Due to my migraine, I am confusing Fahjil for Jawdat, making me annoyed because I thought that he was trying to get one of his personal characters look like a big hero over something that someone shouldn't. In the last post, I am strictly referring to IC and not OOC,

An example of it being difficult to talk to JB because he made an awkward and misplaced joke. Here's the part where I realize "Fahjil is the vice president of Tau and NOT the HoP Jawdat".

Another example during the conversation of more politics popping up. Going to admit that I know next to nothing about political terminology, and don't really care to. I care about action, not terms.

At this point I am getting very frustrated and upset. I'm exhausted and experiencing a painful migraine. I was honestly close to having a breakdown. JB doesn't take the hint, and then something that made me bristle and forced me to see it through. JB ended up manipulating my words from the beginning of the conversation to get his way, and I felt that I had to put my foot down because enough was enough and really couldn't trust him. I accidentally said Synno forgetting that they had left the team at this point, and meant the new CCIA head at that time. And yes, I did get crass here. I was reaching the end of my rope more or less.

The end of the conversation, with me showing undeniable proof that I really didn't approve of his decision.

Then, the next day, JB approached me for the same exact thing. I was still upset about last night and I think the conversation happened when I woke up, feeling resentful and making me get short with him and being curt. An agreement was made, but at a price of me not being as trusting of him. I didn't go to administration about it because I didn't feel that anything would have been done again about it.

Spoiler

 

And now, for the most recent problem that I've had with JB. This is where he attempts to force me to give him permission to edit a document that, mind you, isn't going to be shown to the general public, is nowhere near being a news article, and is more or less a document meant for personal reference. Google Docs is a horrific place to have commentary unless actually doing small editorial work such as "shorten this here, add this here, at this point the topic starts drifting," etc. and is not meant for full-on discussion because it can get downright chaotic, which would have been stressful to deal with and not worth the struggle. Once more, Mofo had so delightfully provided private conversations referring to third parties no matter who it was.

Spoiler

I'm actually pretty okay talking with him about it, but the insistence makes me irritable. This was in DMs. Odd cuttoff at the start because of spoilers.

It ended there. Then, the next day, this happened. At this point I was starting to get fed up, especially when JB started to try and force me to do something that made no sense in doing.

Again, this is not an attack on JB but a complaint on how he handles himself as the head lore maintainer. Some might seem petty or small or inconsequential and I can't tell which is because everyone is different, but these are the things that have personally affected me and has built up overtime to make working with JB stressful and frustrating, making my motivation suffer because the frustration and negative experiences has conditioned me to be resentful of working under him, and that is something I do not want to feel. I strongly believe head loredev shouldn't be making their staff feel this way in the slightest, and to me it has turned what was supposed to be an inspirational volunteer project to "just another job with a difficult boss". It's also all brought up in case others have noticed any of this as well and would like to make any statements on it.

[Neinbox]

On 08/05/2019 at 12:37, Senpai Jackboot said:

Whether it's about in general or about you specifically, it's almost always because I need to get involved for several reasons.

1) You're inactive and the project I know about is sitting around gathering dust.

2) The project has some stuff that needs to be worked out and I have criticisms or editorial work to do.

3) I have a genuine interest in the project and want to work with them on it.

I've made an intentional effort to walk back from projects only to have them fester for weeks, months, or be dropped entirely. Like yours, which is outlined below.

My project is not gathering dust, nor am I inactive. I am waiting for coding for the next phase and I have been recently doing work still, and you've seen it.

On 08/05/2019 at 12:37, Senpai Jackboot said:

Recently I gave you a schedule to help you with your inactivity per my new policies. You are extremely combative and aggressive with me, and I know sometimes personalities clash so I asked Mofo to help you out. You meet the schedule deadline of several weeks with a project outline on the very last day. I asked you for commenting perms so I can go over the document and do what I need to do and you refused and drew a line in the sand. You wanted me to write an entirely new document with feedback and then claimed that because the outline isn't finished (violating the deadline which I said the outline needs to be completed by) that yI wasn't allowed to comment on half of the entire document and also that you "don't need an editor."

It is not harassment to tell you that this behavior is unacceptable and that you need to meet your deadlines. Despite you refusing to let me do anything to your project outline, disregarding what I ended up having to leave my overview in your loredev chat because it wasn't finished, then leaving with a migraine again, I gave you a new deadline of two whole weeks to finish a single project.

You come in here saying that I am doing all this mean stuff to you and throwing me under the bus when I have bent over backwards to accommodate you, your inactivity, and your hostility and resentment towards me. I am deeply frustrated that you are disregarding me completely and casting me a villain when I have gotten considerable anger at me for how much leniency I give you. You even spoiled the Frost arc that I was working with pegasus and zundy on in your complaint here.

I was not "extremely combative and aggressive". If I were, I'd be cussing you out and saying that you're a terrible person and threaten you etc. to your face. I am frustrated and irritated, yes. But combative? Aggressive? *Extremely* so in both regards? No. And not once did I say I wanted you to write an entirely new document, only to make comments in the completely empty chat which exists solely to discuss such matters in. The outline is actually finished, but I wanted to add more detail to better explain things because that version is a brief summary of each phase and somewhat ambiguous yet understandable to me and left open-ended due to multiple outcomes. I wanted to further expand beyond just the summary paragraphs so then that way when it is presented it is understandable to the rest of the staff including you, and there is a lot more to it which was why I only gave the summaries and found that they weren't good enough personally. It is going to be a hefty piece of work.

And it is harassment with constantly dogging me for everything that you want, and yet I see no reason why I need to. I gave you my reasons for only lurking in staff chat until requested and why I didn't want Google Docs to be used for discussions. And yes, I am going to have migraines. It's spring. I get barometric headaches and they can be debilitating. I'd rather be safe and wait until I'm better to do good work than suffer through and sloppily do the job, wasting time later to fix up the mess.

"Throwing you under the bus" isn't what I'm doing here. I've tried to come to admins before with my complaints and they didn't really seem to go anywhere. while things just seemed to get worse to me. This is me making a complaint because I am frustrated with you. And again, if anyone has any trouble with me, they are free to approach me themselves so we can come to an understanding. I've always been open to talking to people about problems. The only difference here is that you've been non-stop pursuing things from me that I truly feel are unnecessary. If I am wrong and they have read my posts, then people are free to tell me otherwise but I have still technically been following the rules with making an outline and still being in the staff server and periodically looking at it. Everything else is news to me. As for the spoiler, I didn't realize and I explained that to you already. It was an honest accident.

As for the rest of your response, I've further expanded on what I meant with my original post since said original post was actually half eaten by the site.

 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

9 hours ago, Skull132 said:

Example one is the Akutha, which at first attempted to implement a niche sociological experiment in a manner which was devoid of logic.

I did read your point and found this to be the primary. This is a very strange argument to make. Vaurca and diona are far more niche and specific than the current state of autakh. There is plenty of logic.  They are internally consistent and interact with the setting consistently.

 

7 hours ago, Skull132 said:

Re: Atlas. As said, I've not investigated too far, simply forwarding what I've heard. And since I am not the only one to hold this opinion, perhaps it is a matter worth providing introspective on.

The fascist political party which was written and implemented as it was made five years ago is going to remain an antagonizing populist force within the alliance. Otherwise the only radicals are the huey long style populist martians and it would be another accusation of self inserting. I will talk to pegasus about making atlas have better optics, since its his decision and he has already wanted better optics.

4 hours ago, Neinbox said:

to me it has turned what was supposed to be an inspirational volunteer project to "just another job with a difficult boss".

I'm sorry you feel that way.

[Mofo1995]

18 hours ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

Mofo has not complained about the overbearing dominance i loom over him with, unless he has lying to my face all this time.

I don't mean to start anymore drama than I already have, but I have griped about it (I think only with Coalf, I don't think I confided with others) in PMs. In discussions with you in the past, I had told you that Coalf was extremely valuable to me because I was too timid to raise concerns with you regarding tajara lore sometimes, and that he was my rock.  He would often somehow psychically become immediately in-tune with issues I had, without any prior conversation, and then raise them. Albeit way too brashly. Aside from just being so perfectly in synchronous with my vision for tajara lore and having writing which was a perfect fit as a result, his other greatest asset to taj team was that he put winds in my sails and some firmness to my backbone whenever you and I had to sit down at the debate table. 

Do I mean to say JB is a micromanaging hack and must hang? No, even in my IRL job I work better with oversight. The creative process usually works like this between Jackboot and I, we usually come up with two opposing positions, make proposals and counter-proposals, and eventually reach an agreeable compromise. Does it always work out the way I would like it? No, I'm often lightly salted about Crevus, and what I often perceive as the neutering of Nated, the spaying of Haralala, and the nerfing of the DPRA. The latter three of which was going to become the far right faction of Adhomai with the PRA being the far left and the NKA being the moderate. Here's a diagram that describes my "ideal" situation. 

Spoiler

The chart was made before the NKA or DPRA (then just ALA) even had flags, which shows for how long I planned it. But was the PRA being stereotypical crony stalinists and the DPRA being a fascist state rising out of right wing religious radicals really the most compelling choice to take when the NKA is just propped up to look like an innocent lamb in all of this? No, and that's why a lot of people love the NKA and not the other two, and this is a situation where Jackboot was at least partially right even though I don't like it. It may have been WAY more fun to write about, but I don't have the proper perception to say if it would be more fun to read about, let alone play with in a role-play setting. I do often feel that he's courting taj team too much and that the other developers don't get the same level of attention that I do. Whereas I had objections to it in the past, tajara lore has really cool arcs going on right now, so ironically while I might complain about it- right about now is actually when I want that attention.

So I guess what I mean to say, surmised in two statements is:

"1. I work better with oversight"

"2. Jackboot should generally spread his attention out more evenly so other writers don't feel neglected."

[VTCobaltblood]

On 07/05/2019 at 22:27, VTCobaltblood said:

I am expecting other lore writers, current and former, to post on this as well - the entire team is involved here. 

 

[Faris]

@Mofo1995 It's why I raised this point, and this isn't about drama. If we're all honest we can come out of this better. Oversight is part of his role, but the way it seems does look somewhat negligent? Might not be the suitable word but you get my point here. A fully even spread of attention is impossible but it can stand to be more even. I feel team morale has tanked to a degree because of this as well. Coalf has spoken to me about certain issues as well. He personally felt that it was too overbearing, while the degree of what both of you feel might differ, the point I'm trying to drive is still experienced by both of you. Additionally I'm unsure if you're aware but he also felt he was unfairly scrutinized for their work, that he found it less of a hassle if others tried to push content in his stead, even if he was the one to work on it. 

@Senpai Jackboot I'm not asking you to internalize all your thoughts. I do appreciate that the projects being referred to have been canned due to push-back and/or feedback. The point I'm making in those projects is that there tends to sometimes be a lack of diversity and painted in "red". There was a proposal by you to have GAIA merge with the other parties being Workers Party and Utopia, which was cancelled yes. Then what I cited before about the Syndicalists and Populists in Tau Ceti. I'm not hounding you for the act of suggesting things, but when it comes to politics and governments, it could stand to diversify a bit more when it comes to these suggestions. We're in the future, we can try so many different things out there. Perhaps new beliefs even. 

Additionally when it comes to your comment about @Skull132 being your boss and forcing @VTCobaltblood to pick someone, I'd like to show you a brief portion of a conversation I had with Skull.

Spoiler

AboshehabYesterday at 9:34 AM

Hi, I don't want to bloat the complaint anymore. But was it mandatory that someone would be removed from the skrell team when the new deputy was hired, in that case, me?

Skull132Yesterday at 12:31 PM

Also, re your previous question. It wasn't mandatory that someone be fired. But we were and are against the idea of a species having 3 deputies.

So initially, we were against the apps being opened in the first place

@Neinbox I don't want to shift this complaint towards you but for fairness, I feel the need to say there's a level of unfairness levied towards Jackboot by you. Presently Jackboot is the Lore Master and responsible for the lore team. He's entitled to making his opinions known about your projects, so asking for commenting permissions on a doc you're writing is not something out of place. Secondly, the perception of activity plays a big role, you can be working and people can still feel you're absent. Your work has been trickling in slightly compared to before yes, but their visibility is not exactly out there compared to other teams. You could also stand to be less hostile towards them in general, I felt uncomfortable trying to imagine myself at the receiving end of some of the conversations you had with them.

[Neinbox]

2 hours ago, Aboshedab said:

@Neinbox I don't want to shift this complaint towards you but for fairness, I feel the need to say there's a level of unfairness levied towards Jackboot by you. Presently Jackboot is the Lore Master and responsible for the lore team. He's entitled to making his opinions known about your projects, so asking for commenting permissions on a doc you're writing is not something out of place. Secondly, the perception of activity plays a big role, you can be working and people can still feel you're absent. Your work has been trickling in slightly compared to before yes, but their visibility is not exactly out there compared to other teams. You could also stand to be less hostile towards them in general, I felt uncomfortable trying to imagine myself at the receiving end of some of the conversations you had with them.

I was 100% fine with him telling his opinions about my document to me in full and wanted it, but I thoroughly believe that Google Docs is *not* the place. It does not allow for actual conversation, and if someone were to try it would have led to a horrific, cluttered mess that would have been impossible to read and focus on. I've seen how Bygone's doc turned out after they posted theirs, and I balked at the chaos I saw. We ended up talking about it all on my private Discord channel which I suggested in the first place- please note that I not once said that I never said I didn't want opinions, I just didn't want them on the doc itself- which made things a thousand times easier. The only irritance to JB is perhaps copy-pasting information and switching between windows, but on the staff channel I am able to actually hold long conversations about the topic without cluttering up the document itself and highlighting the hell out of it. I'm also able to easier find things that were talked about as well, and it's overall more comfortable to read instead of the little boxes to the side. JB did was ask a *lot* of questions, all of which was needed to be answered, and Google Docs isn't the best option for those kinds of conversations whatsoever.

As for my apparent invisibility, I know it's been said before but I've been working on a large project that's been taking up quite a bit of my attention from other things such as wiki editing, as the project itself is going to include a lot of lore. I also went through a hard time and it really socially threw my groove off where I became more withdrawn and instead became more focused on the project. It was also more demanding due to it being the first for what it's for and just how big it is. It was never my intention to make people worry and I seriously didn't realize what my social withdrawal was doing as no one had come to me before with it with their complaints.

As for my behavior during this whole thing. I was in a very, very bad spot when everything started to happen between me and JB. My temper was shortened due to stress from life during this time period, but I was still doing work during my recovery. and thought that my situation was understandable especially since I've been working on such a large, radical new project. But then the constant demands for things that didn't make sense to me came along. As I became more irritated, JB in turn became the same I felt which only led to the building of negativity between the both of us.

I've been feeling that I've more or less been feeling a lot better and overall recovered and I've been feeling my inspiration start to come back, and I've been jumping on this project more as of late, wanting to finally pick up wiki editing on top of the project as well and making more requests for Dionae code (I'm so sorry PoZe). Yes, there are times where my emotions have still gotten the better of me as I start to return to normalcy, which can make me a bit heated- particularly the sensitive issue between me and Cobalt which I do want to work out since I've had more time to calm down, step back, and think on the issue, but what Mofo did here was incredibly upsetting.

 

 

With it more brought to my attention as it's hard to see what I'm doing wrong with only two people being involved, that being me and JB, it's hard for me to see that I'm being too harsh with them. I'm usually a lot better with my temper but with the way of how life has been, my ability to do so has been degraded and I've been slowly regaining control of it again. It's harder when you've taught yourself to be upset at someone because they've upset you before, And honestly, part of the reason why I like to have disagreements out in the open is so that there are others who can tell me I'm being a bit too harsh instead of either being ignorant because I feel I'm right, or figure it out too late after the fact. Which is why I appreciate complaint forms, because it's a fair and neutral place to work things out between everyone. I have people telling me that I've been a jerk, and I've taken a step back to read it all again.

It's most likely going to sound hollow or just for show at this point in time because of how much time has past and how much I've let myself believe that it was deserved with how emotional I've been lately@Senpai Jackboot, but I am sincerely sorry for being a major ass to you. I wasn't in a good place for a while and I let it affect my work/relationships here when I shouldn't have, and I let minor things get the best of me and let it build up. It's not okay and it wasn't right. It should have been done sooner, but I'll have a better grip on things now. You're not a horrible person, and it wasn't very deserving.

With emotions set aside, I do still firmly believe that you've been having difficulties yourself with your own position that need to be looked at however.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

What specific actions and policies do the people involved in this complaint want to see? We a are already "looking at" my management. What do you want me to do?

[VTCobaltblood]

I want a better manager, and I don't really think new policies suffice for this. We need a new loremaster, although I would be satisfied to still see Jackboot as the Unathi loredev. Issues just keep piling up, and the deputy situation shows that Jackboot's poor management is a recurrent pattern of behavior. New policies enforced by Jackboot honestly often seem like knee-jerk, such as the slowdown mode or kicking people out of the lore chat for aggressive behavior, which have been introduced while we were discussing Aut'akh, but never spoken of again (which faintly smells of bias?) despite kick-worthy situations occurring again. Because of this, I don't have a lot of faith in policy improvement. 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

36 minutes ago, VTCobaltblood said:

deputy situation shows that Jackboot's poor management is a recurrent pattern of behavior

You share responsibility. You were extremely eager to open a deputy slot. You were told about a removal of a deputy. You chose to tell me you didnt want to discuss it further until later. You delayed me. Listening to you at face value is the issue that happened. I should have overruled you and been more firm. Which i will be.

 

Youre putting me in a lot of catch22s. I shouldn't overrule you but i should have overruled your deputy slot decision. You gaslit me about never having told about the possibility at all and insist i should have somehow read your mind.

I dont make new policy to respond to behavior and when i do make new policy with mofo its kneejerk and unnecessary. 

Im sorry you didnt like the slowdown. You were told it was a temporary solution to explore it as an option.  It didn't get implemented.

Kicking from the chat is still policy and now we have a full formal policy of escalation. No ones done anything kick worthy yet.

Who do you want to put in charge after firing myself and Mofo that will address all your issues, never overrule you, overrule others when you deem it necessary, and overrule you, without overruling you?

Who should skull replace me with, do you think?

Edited May 13, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix