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Staff Complaint - Garnascus


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BYOND Key: CommanderXor

Staff BYOND Key: Garnascus

Game ID: Round before b12-bDfE

Reason For Complaint: The round is changeling, I join half-way through and observe the entire round. There's a horror form ling going around murdering everyone and most of sec is dead or unable to contain it to the point that command calls for an ERT. I spawn in with four~ other ERT troopers and we board the station. I crashed relatively early on so I wasn't sure what was happening for the most part in terms of combat, but that is not part of the complaint. The point is, later on in the round a emergency shuttle was called and I rejoined about two minutes before it docks. I make my way up there to oversee that everything went well, people evacuated and no trouble started from crew or lings. Point is, people were trying to get to it and the captain decided to hold the shuttle for medical which was rushing to the dock and just stepped off the elevators. This is where the trouble begins. Literal seconds after the shuttle is held, with the airlocks open, the shuttle launches. For seemingly no reason, despite command swiping to hold it, it gets launched. The doors are wide open and I get knocked to my feet. I'm not sure if it vented the shuttle but I was downed and nearly got sucked out as I was one tile away. He then proceeds to make an announcement not to hold the shuttle and goes on in OOC saying that shuttles are never to be held and that they were never allowed to be and it's against the rules/'is your headcanon they're allowed to be held'.

My issue stems from the fact, that this is not written down anywhere, nor noted, nor in the official rule list. It's just...something he's made up on the spot. It has never been a thing and no one has ever actually stopped the shuttle from being held before. Infact, Garn has even been on when it has been held in the past. It seemingly has come out of no where...for no real reason other than he felt like it. Unless I am mistaken and he has enforced it in the past, I have never seen it before and several people said likewise in OOC after the round ended.

Evidence: Logs can be found here.

Additional Remarks: I don't quite want Garn to get in trouble per-say, I want a official ruling on holding the shuttle and if it's allowed or not, and if it has always been allowed then why Garn seemingly made up rules on the spot for no reason that negatively affected players and the ongoing round.

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It has always been dis-allowed. Its a very very very very very very very minor and sporadic incident. In fact the last time i even remember seeing people do it was two months ago. I reserve the right and have told staff when they asked that "yeah you should probably just force it". Its not good to do. Full stop. Not sure what you hope to gain by this?

 

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1 minute ago, Garnascus said:

It has always been dis-allowed. Its a very very very very very very very minor and sporadic incident. In fact the last time i even remember seeing people do it was two months ago. I reserve the right and have told staff when they asked that "yeah you should probably just force it". Its not good to do. Full stop. 

Where is it written down that it is disallowed? People can't obey something if they aren't aware of it, nor if they can find it.

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1 minute ago, CommanderXor said:

Where is it written down that it is disallowed? People can't obey something if they aren't aware of it, nor if they can find it.

The rules are not a comprehensive list of every single minor detail. This is one of those. Nobody was noted. Nobody was punished. I forced the shuttle.

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37 minutes ago, Garnascus said:

In fact the last time i even remember seeing people do it was two months ago.

side-note: people have been holding shuttles like. daily? at least once every two days. are you sure?

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In this context, the shuttle was held to allow medical personnel to bring injured people onto the shuttle. You forcing it to launch caused the airlocks to shut in their faces, which later caused the shuttle to vent. Is THAT not a shitty thing to do?

Holding the shuttle for two minutes isn't bad. Force the shuttle if it's been held for longer. Heck, I can code it if it's such a big deal. No balls.

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5 minutes ago, geeves said:

You forcing it to launch caused the airlocks to shut in their faces

No this is false.

1. The shuttle was forced by someone

2. the shuttle was unforced

3. i forced the shuttle

4. the airlocks come down signaling the shuttle is launching

5. some absolute lad walks up the AIRLOCK CONTROLLER and forces the airlocks open

The shuttle venting was not my fault. Dont play with airlocks. You have about 13 minutes from when the shuttle is called to get ready and get to it. If you cannot make it in time you can just..... not..... board the shuttle? This absolutely blows my mind that people try to defend doing this. 

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Alright, you forcing the shuttle a second time didn't lead to all the issues? Fair enough, I believe you.

Thing is, emergency shuttles are generally called during emergencies, in which as many people should get off the station as possible, this include medical personnel who had to fix people up last minute. This is the general use-case for shuttles being held, and I don't think anyone has ever had an issue with it.

I'm not even going to mention how rude you were in OOC afterwards, especially as a Head Administrator for the server. But, this can be forgiven as well, I suppose. Banter begets banter, maybe. Not sure.

Can we get a revised ruling on the no holding shuttle thing? I think not being able to hold it all is daft. Forcing it without considering players even more so.

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1 minute ago, CommanderXor said:

The complaint or the replies? Because the complaint is a valid thing. I was typing it up after the round ended and only got around to posting it a few minutes after yours by coincidence.

Garn's replies. I know the complaint is legit.

Edited by furrycactus
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The shuttle is being held daily. I have held the shuttle with other command a million times (dramatic exaggeration). No one has ever said anything against this. It's justified to hold the shuttle as Command when medical comes running with injured crew/detained prisoners/etc. It would be neglect of duty when the shuttle is secured and crew comes running and you just fuck off. I don't want to bash on you Garn, but your reasoning really seems out of nowhere.

 

I have to agree with geeves, if you don't want it to be held, remove it.

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I was sure that we had a thread about this. But, since this is not writen anywhere, I guess we need to create a rule.

Holding the shuttle has been abused sometimes as far I remember, but it is also used in legit situations. I believe that if you are holding it over five minutes, it is a bit too much. 

So, my suggestion to clear this up is to write a new rule that says that holding the shuttle for more than five minutes is grounds for allowing admins to force it. What do you all think?

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I've seen the shuttle held, typically to allow crew to board it that were far away from the surface, or to allow medical to move injured people there, or if there's damage to the station. Never seen it abused, though.

 

Why not just clarify it as a rule, and determine in what sort of situations (vaguely, of course, up to admin interpretation upon seeing someone delay the shuttle if it's valid or not) it would be allowed to delay it.

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