Do you pay for kitchen/bar items?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Why do you choose, if you do, to refuse paying for things from the kitchen or bar? I want to get some insight into the total disinterest for goods that arent provided free of charge?

Whike objectives to cooks and bartenders may incentivize them to charge, why do you refuse to pay?

[Resilynn]

When you’re mostly used to getting something for free and suddenly someone wants 10 credits for food it’s absolutely unacceptable, I come here all the time!  Why has it suddenly changed?!!?  I need to speak to your manager. 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Would it be important then to have cooks and bartenders charge regularly and consistently?

The new quik-pay system i harrassed into being makes transactions for the customer on the same difficulty as the vending machines.

[GreenBoi]

I want people to be forced to pay, because it makes sense ICly.

 

There's too many variables at play for a company to say 'Oh yes, this much food and drinks is covered by your contract' when they'd be better off charging you. There's also the fact that most people go to the Odin to go home, so they can get arguably cheaper foods at home than at work, like anyone with a mind, they bring lunchboxes.

 

In general, I usually keep 30-60 credits on me at all times for sudden payment, or wait for a cardswipe.

[UnknownMurder]

Someone charging me for real food? Outrageous! I will resort to getting food from vending machine because it is cheaper than real food that chef cooks. 

[Conspiir]

This concept is brought up a lot. It gets tiring. Oftentimes, it's a matter of our economy making no inherent sense. I've seen pizzas charged for 20 credits, I've seen them charged for 120 credits. There's no "I'm getting a good deal!" or "That's a fair price!" feeling when we see the numbers, because they don't mean anything. One shift you can have $100, the next you have $1000. There's a reluctance to pay money when you aren't sure what you're paying money for. You could be giving away a third of your living wage for a pie.

 

And sometimes, a chef or bartender just doesn't want to. The charging minigame isn't fun to everyone. So it becomes a matter of nice convenience for everyone to chat to each other instead of bringing up the metalephant in the room of our economy making no sense.

[Mogelix]

The bartender/chef does not buy or personally supply the equipment and foodstuffs used to prepare meals. They belong to NanoTrasen. The cook is merely hired to prepare said foodstuffs with said equipment. None of the food they make is their own, it is merely the crop they are hired to harvest and provide. Contractually, they cook and prepare food. They do not run a restaurant. If you want to run a restaurant, go to those servers that arent set on a space station, and allow you to do so.

The solution here isn't to force chefs to charge for their food. The solution is to... suck it up and realise that you don't own a restaurant, your just a chef, because that is the situation and setting of the game. Chefs get wages, not payments 

[UnknownMurder]

19 minutes ago, Mogelix said:

The bartender/chef does not buy or personally supply the equipment and foodstuffs used to prepare meals. They belong to NanoTrasen. The cook is merely hired to prepare said foodstuffs with said equipment. None of the food they make is their own, it is merely the crop they are hired to harvest and provide. Contractually, they cook and prepare food. They do not run a restaurant. If you want to run a restaurant, go to those servers that arent set on a space station, and allow you to do so.

 The solution here isn't to force chefs to charge for their food. The solution is to... suck it up and realise that you don't own a restaurant, your just a chef, because that is the situation and setting of the game. Chefs get wages, not payments 

This is the ugly truth. Words have never been spoken so true. I'm just literally going to laugh at people who thinks that chef and bartender should charge people for drinks. The only common thing these will happen are be forced by Command's orders or NanoTrasen's orders then Chef/Bartender can charge people. If you look at my joke that contained a useful message which previously and charge me for food/drink services, I'd rather go for vending machines than having to go and pay for your services. Vending machines are much cheaper than Chef/Bartender's services. 

GIANT HOWEVER, no one is stopping you from tipping for the Chef/Bartender. I do like to have my characters tip my Chef/Bartender sometimes if they provide a good story/interaction with my characters. If you want to tip, by all means, go ahead. Charging and tipping are two different things. Requiring to give money for a service is charging. Opting to give money for their service is tipping. Tipping isn't illegal but you are not mandated to tip your server.

@Marlon Phoenix , your thoughts on how we all responded? 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

38 minutes ago, UnknownMurder said:

The solution here isn't to force chefs to charge for their food. The solution is to... suck it up and realise that you don't own a restaurant, your just a chef, because that is the situation and setting of the game. Chefs get wages, not payments 

We have the equipment set up for them to charge for and sell food. This argument you make is very common and it's fascinating because it doesn't seem to come from anywhere. It's, for a lack of a better word, fanfiction.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

40 minutes ago, UnknownMurder said:

his is the ugly truth. Words have never been spoken so true. I'm just literally going to laugh at people who thinks that chef and bartender should charge people for drinks

Once again, to hammer this home, they are given tools explicitly to charge for food with the money going to the civilian account.

[Carver]

No, I rarely visit chefs as-is unless there's a significant lull in activity. Vending machines are quicker and don't interrupt the workflow. I'd be more content paying if the chef's smartheater charged for items and came pre-stocked with a few burgers and sandwiches, with the option for the chef to fill it with other items with pre-set prices.

[Doxxmedearly]

10 hours ago, Conspiir said:

This concept is brought up a lot. It gets tiring. Oftentimes, it's a matter of our economy making no inherent sense. I've seen pizzas charged for 20 credits, I've seen them charged for 120 credits. There's no "I'm getting a good deal!" or "That's a fair price!" feeling when we see the numbers, because they don't mean anything. One shift you can have $100, the next you have $1000. There's a reluctance to pay money when you aren't sure what you're paying money for. You could be giving away a third of your living wage for a pie.

 

And sometimes, a chef or bartender just doesn't want to. The charging minigame isn't fun to everyone. So it becomes a matter of nice convenience for everyone to chat to each other instead of bringing up the metalephant in the room of our economy making no sense.

Nailed it. Money's weird in the game. And no matter how easy payments are... it's still a pain in the butt compared to just not doing it. 

8 hours ago, Carver said:

No, I rarely visit chefs as-is unless there's a significant lull in activity. Vending machines are quicker and don't interrupt the workflow. I'd be more content paying if the chef's smartheater charged for items and came pre-stocked with a few burgers and sandwiches, with the option for the chef to fill it with other items with pre-set prices.

This is a pretty neat idea

-

I do want to say that the argument that the chefs shouldn't charge because everything is NT provided is... so bizarre to me. I know we hate the "realism" arguments sometimes, but if you've ever worked at a job with a cafeteria, you know you get charged. Maybe they're contracted, maybe they're directly employed, but they always charge. And in our corporate-ruled setting, where NT would borg you for profit, it makes sense to me that they'd charge for food. Squeeze back every credit of your paycheck. The chef wouldn't see a dime of it, just like any other cafeteria worker. Charging is nowhere near "running a restaurant."

Using a vending machine for your lunch is also weird to me. Sure, I do know plenty of people who live off of vendor food and energy drinks, so a busy person would just swipe and get back to work. But for most people it's not a replacement for a lunch/dinner/breakfast. Feels gamey. 

Anyway, I'd pay for food if people charged. But the server culture right now is that people are used to not charging or being charged. Some chefs just don't want to deal with it. That should be fine. But if it shifted to being the standard, I wouldn't have any complaints. It makes more sense for the setting. 

Edited July 29, 2019 by Doxxmedearly

[SmallGreenAnt]

I've always offered a general amount of money for food or drink, typically 20 credits for a full meal. I don't believe I've ever had a cook or bartender ask me for money however, which might be the reason for the general tendency to dine and dash.

As for the argument that people find it ridiculous to offer money for food because NanoTrasen owns the food supply and the character does not, I see glaring logical fallacy. We provide money to people every day that do not directly own the food they are relinquishing, be it at a supermarket, a diner, even a work cafeteria. The resale of goods and entrusting money to a third party individual to see it properly attributed to the providing business I would have thought was a modern commonplace practice and I applied that to this situation as well. In fact, it seems a bit antiquated to assume the adverse, that chefs or bartenders are peddling and bartering independently. 

[Lady Fowl]

Just for reference, as the person who coded the Quik-Pay system, the chef doesnt make any money with the quik pay, it all goes to a department account, by default the civilian account

[SmallGreenAnt]

7 minutes ago, DRagO said:

Just for reference, as the person who coded the Quik-Pay system, the chef doesnt make any money with the quik pay, it all goes to a department account, by default the civilian account

This is exactly what I thought. Why is there such a divide with people thinking that chefs and bartenders are pocketing the money to support their various space drug habits? Is that a common occurrence or is it more a lack of standards between prices and characters that has caused this confusion?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

35 minutes ago, DRagO said:

Just for reference, as the person who coded the Quik-Pay system, the chef doesnt make any money with the quik pay, it all goes to a department account, by default the civilian account

It seeks like a lack of standardized prices are a listed issue with the new system. It may be wise to add a little document in the bar and kitchen with example meals and their price, or adding a 'suggested price' to all food and drinks on the wiki.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[Mogelix]

14 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

This argument you make is very common and it's fascinating because it doesn't seem to come from anywhere. It's, for a lack of a better word, fanfiction.

"You should also make sure you are setting up proper prices for your meals. Cash or card, it's important to get a revenue coming in so you are always able to afford Cargo orders or, if there's no botany, growing your own produce in the surface garden!"

Your right, then, I thought this was just commonly known stuff or unwritten logic.

7 hours ago, Doxxmedearly said:

chef wouldn't see a dime of it, just like any other cafeteria worker

7 hours ago, Doxxmedearly said:

Charging is nowhere near "running a restaurant."

Okay, fine. But all to often I have seen way too many chefs just pocket all the money they get from their payed kitchens and kind of instantly thought of that when the subject was brought up. Going to the civilian account is fine, also, I do not want chefs to be forced to charge, since we have already argued against realism

Edited July 29, 2019 by Mogelix

[Doxxmedearly]

1 minute ago, Mogelix said:

Okay, fine. But all to often I have seen way too many chefs just pocket all the money they get from their payed kitchens and kind of instantly thought of that when the subject was brought up. Going to the civilian account is fine

I suppose if they get cash there's not much they can do to get it into the civilian account (Unless that's possible now?). Maybe that needs to be looked at, too. I assume you're not talking tips and mean you've seen people pocket money that's being charged for a meal.

Quote

but I do not want chefs to be forced to charge.

Agreed.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

17 minutes ago, Doxxmedearly said:

Agreed

One chef charging then the next chef not makes the 1st chef come off like an ass. I think this is the root of the issue.

[Mogelix]

29 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

One chef charging then the next chef not makes the 1st chef come off like an ass. I think this is the root of the issue

Doesn't matter. The argument of player choice and versatility over realism has been pulled. And no, if we explicitly state that you are allowed to charge or not charge, people will have to suck it up if the chef decides to charge, they hold all the supply. If five people boycott a charging chef and five people don't, the chef doesn't care because to appease the boycotters he'd have to quit the charging, making the whole ordeal pointless.

[Carver]

3 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

It seeks like a lack of standardized prices are a listed issue with the new system. It may be wise to add a little document in the bar and kitchen with example meals and their price, or adding a 'suggested price' to all food and drinks on the wiki.

Just ditch the quik-pay as the primary means of charging, make the smart-heater able to be loaded with food that takes from a pre-set list of prices and lets people use it as a vending machine. For chefs who want to take from it without paying for catering/delivery, they can unlock it with their ID to unload (and also load) items, and use any sort of quik-pay method (Taking from the same pricing list as the smartheater) to charge on delivery.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Why would you remove my choice in what to charge?

[Carver]

23 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

Why would you remove my choice in what to charge?

Because the cashier at a McDonald's doesn't get to say the Big Mac is suddenly 5 bucks instead of 4 bucks. If you want to avoid hate of the chef, standardize the pricing.

[Skull132]

On 29/07/2019 at 08:05, Conspiir said:

Oftentimes, it's a matter of our economy making no inherent sense

The short answer is here, described by Conspire. Our economics ingame aren't consistent, well fleshed out, or convenient. All of these make its use an unfortunate happenstance.

There's no real reason to participate in in-game economics outside of a minor degree, and the players can sense this. For chef and cook, because they have no need to charge, the players will feel it's unfair if they do (even if the players also know that the money they're giving away is largely worthless, the act of giving away with no reason is still one to elicit negative emotion). There's also the fact that because there's no need for the chef and cook to do this, the majority don't, and thus, the ones who do are deviating from a social norm. And we all know what deviation from social norms gets you! (It's not cookies.)

To fix this. Hoh boy. I'd personally recommend an overhaul and standardization of all prices ingame. Vendors, kitchens, cargo, etcetera. Then giving the chef and bartender a real reason to accept money (paying for the raw materials), and having the rest roll from there. Should also review the amount of money crew get and how they could earn more.

[Ornias]

11 hours ago, Carver said:

Because the cashier at a McDonald's doesn't get to say the Big Mac is suddenly 5 bucks instead of 4 bucks. If you want to avoid hate of the chef, standardize the pricing.

The burger that Andrew Flynn makes is not the same burger that Sophie Hitchins makes. Different chefs produce different food, even if they use the same in-game recipe. Charging different prices between chefs helps to demonstrate an aspect of how highly NT/the chef/the chefs boss values their skills.

36 minutes ago, Skull132 said:

Then giving the chef and bartender a real reason to accept money (paying for the raw materials), and having the rest roll from there.

'People don't interact with in-game economics because they don't have an in-game reason to.'

The correct response to this isn't to ask how we can give them an in-game reason, but as to why they need an in-game reason.

The more we gamify this system, such as by making things about optimizing supply and demand, the more we're going to have an emphasis on doing things the RIGHT way. I don't consider this a desirable outcome.

Instead, I think that the correct response is to enforce the idea that you don't need an in-game reason to pursue your characters goals and interests. The fact that your character is on a budget, or is a lavish spender, should be enough to inform your decisions. If it's not, you're not roleplaying. I invite anyone to challenge me on that.

On 29/07/2019 at 17:47, UnknownMurder said:

I'd rather go for vending machines than having to go and pay for your services. Vending machines are much cheaper than Chef/Bartender's services. 

On 29/07/2019 at 19:09, Carver said:

Vending machines are quicker and don't interrupt the workflow.

These are deeply upsetting arguments. Do you guys ever eat out in real life? Ever? Or do you rely in vending machines and homemade lunches for all your dietary needs?
The point of in-game hunger is not to serve as an obstacle in the course of you completing your activities. It is meant to serve as another medium by which you can express (and justify expressing) your character. This kind of optimization above character argument is exactly what stifles creativity in how characters interact with the game.

15 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

One chef charging then the next chef not makes the 1st chef come off like an ass. I think this is the root of the issue.

And, finally, this. Complaining about the cook (as a person) charging for food, outside of the "let me speak to your manager!" kind of way, should be ahelpable. You know the player behind the chef/cook/bartender sets the prices, but that's not what's portrayed. Anyone who treats the chef as an ass for charging needs to examine why their character would do that.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Ornias