Handcuffs Require An Aggressive Grab

[Snakebittenn]

This is a feedback topic for https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/7299

Please be constructive and specific, or your post might be deleted. 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I remember this on other servers. It was a massive pain in the butt.

It is often difficult to put someone into an aggressive grab. It relies on the random chance of getting to it without their resistance breaking it.

This will require the person is stunned for a prolonged period of time, and remain stunned for as long as it takes to get into an unbroken aggressive grab. It will most likely take 2 attempts at least if the person does not submit, unless there are relationships between stuns and resisting that I am not aware of.

This will, like on the other server I played on, most likely see more forced used against people.

Cuffs being applied quickly and safely like now are better for antags as well as regular crew. If I am an antag trying to cuff someone and they keep resisting out of my grab even while they are disabled on the floor I will just kill them.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Seems like excessive force bait.

[Scheveningen]

The mechanic/oversight still exists that makes any movement input have you resist out of any grab attempt. Each of the WASD keys corresponds to their own independent resist timer, meaning you can faceroll WASD and break out of all kinds of grabs, eventually. There's another issue where you can map "Resist" to several macros and replicate the same effect since there isn't a unified Resist cooldown.

I do not suggest merging this PR while the above issues are still making grabs essentially irrelevant as combat options during gameplay.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Scheveningen

[N8-Toe]

100% Cuffs as they are now are bad, full stop. RN someone can be cuffed by just pushing them into a corner, or applied mid conversation while they are typing. Cuffing someone who is actively fighting you is hard, and should not be easy. Right now cuffing places a massive advantage in the hands of security, and cuffing with the way resisting works is the end. so yes, if you want to end an antags round I do think it should be fought over. 

[Dbrg]

Being cuffed while typing is pretty shitty, yes. On the other hand, if I've just tazed the Unabomber to the ground and they spam resist being cuffed, I'm going to have to telebaton them until they stop moving one way or the other, which is as healthy for my command whitelist as it is for their enjoyment of the round.

If we must have this, then bypassing the requirement of an aggressive grab if someone has just been floored by active stun baton strikes/tazer shots might be a nice middle ground and, in my view, makes more sense for non-hulk characters.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

2 hours ago, Scheveningen said:

The mechanic/oversight still exists that makes any movement input have you resist out of any grab attempt. Each of the WASD keys corresponds to their own independent resist timer, meaning you can faceroll WASD and break out of all kinds of grabs, eventually. There's another issue where you can map "Resist" to several macros and replicate the same effect since there isn't a unified Resist cooldown.

I do not suggest merging this PR while the above issues are still making grabs essentially irrelevant as combat options during gameplay.

This.

[N8-Toe]

if the space Unabomber is resisting you on the floor and/or throwing haymakers, throw them back or get backup to help you. Arresting a resisting person is violent. maybe people who have been successfully stunned to the ground have a timer where their resists have a lower chance of working. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by N8-Toe

[Crozarius]

To add to the problem of resist spamming, there is now the additional problem that with brainmed you're going to put people into cardiac shock with the amount of pain you'll have to deal to them, and how many times you have to stun them to do this.

 

But on the other hand being cuffed while typing sucks, and so does being grabbed and failing to resist.

 

Solution: Just jobban shitters who silently walk up and apply cuffs without preamble. Also maybe fix the grab system before this suggestion.

[canon35]

I don't see a reason to add this.

Our current system works fine for antags and sec, and as stated earlier this would just lead to more force used on both sides. Most people, unless they're being inflicted by lag or unless the cuffer is trying to do it to them while they're typing (Which is against the rules IIRC), would be able to walk off or escape and prevent themselves from being caught unless stuns are used. 

[Nantei]

15 hours ago, Scheveningen said:

There's another issue where you can map "Resist" to several macros and replicate the same effect since there isn't a unified Resist cooldown.
 

Can you provide evidence of this? Because this PR specifically increases the universal resist cooldown.

 

Also Crozarius, non-lethal tools regularly putting people into cardiac shock is a brainmed issue. And should be fixed if it isn't already. Because going into shock from running too much isn't very cash money.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Nantei

[Skull132]

16 hours ago, Scheveningen said:

There's another issue where you can map "Resist" to several macros and replicate the same effect since there isn't a unified Resist cooldown.

If they all use the same verb at the end, then this shouldn't bypass the timer. Unless the timer is coded wrong, but there should be no difference between the macro calling it and the verb being used directly.

[Scheveningen]

1 hour ago, Nantei said:

Can you provide evidence of this? Because this PR specifically increases the universal resist cooldown.

 

Also Crozarius, non-lethal tools regularly putting people into cardiac shock is a brainmed issue. And should be fixed if it isn't already. Because going into shock from running too much isn't very cash money.

It was Geeves that initially told me about this.

[geeves]

what

matt and i tested shooting a stun carbine into my pink pompadour skirt HoP a few hundred times and they didn't go into cardiac shock

no

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

As an antag why would I go through all this trouble when I can just kill them a lot quicker and safer?

[Pratepresidenten]

To bring up the memetic argument of "muh realism"

I like this suggestion as it makes sense, I dont think anyone in the history of ever has had cuffs slapped on them, compliant or otherwise without the detainer putting a hand on the detainee's forearm for stability.

Even a passive grab would work for this change.

Maybe grab requirement could be based on intent of the to-be cuffed person?
Help ---> Passive grab
Grab/Disarm ---> Aggressive grab
Harm ---> Neckgrab

[Roostercat]

11 minutes ago, Pratepresidenten said:

To bring up the memetic argument of "muh realism"

I like this suggestion as it makes sense, I dont think anyone in the history of ever has had cuffs slapped on them, compliant or otherwise without the detainer putting a hand on the detainee's forearm for stability.

Even a passive grab would work for this change.

Maybe grab requirement could be based on intent of the to-be cuffed person?
Help ---> Passive grab
Grab/Disarm ---> Aggressive grab
Harm ---> Neckgrab

The idea with the i tents could work although having to wait for the neckgrab would be annoying as hell since someone could just press 4 and keep clicking resist u til they are out