Kintsugi Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 With one slot or two, I don't particularly care - Though two would likely be better for preventing too much slot competition. There's simply too little work to be spread across two jobs, to be frank. It is infuriating that the detective is locked off from forensics equipment, when oftentimes you won't see both on station at the same time.
Snakebittenn Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 I fully agree. Neither of these jobs are really feature complete separate from each other, Detective is especially bad.
GreenBoi Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 Yeah please. Just have them become alt-titles for eachother at this point. Don't care how implausible it could be, there's just no difference in gameplay right now. CSI is often picked because they're expected to do as much as a detective socially and even more mechanically. They'll most likely be doing the legwork while detectives only really have the ability of being annoying to people for the sake of 'investigation' and waving a gun like a maniac. You could very much leave the current mapped Investigation Wing how it is and just shift around some locker placements/contents.
Wigglesworth Jones Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 I support this quite a bit, especially if there are two slots open. It's much more convenient for everyone.
Waff-AI Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 As a former Detective main, yes, please. The times an investigation has been hampered or full-on stopped because I can't get in the CSI lab and nobody wants to play the role is absolutely agonizing. If you combined the two, you'd get a much more robust job overall that lets you decide if you want to focus on one or actually be able to handle a crime scene competently as a duo.
Scheveningen Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 Fully agreed. Only problem is having enough equipment for two, but with departmental security inching towards an evermore complete and foreseeably permanent state, the more I'd like to see this issue addressed.
WickedCybs Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 This would be very good. Spreading that work between two roles always seemed rather questionable to me anyway, with a lot of lonely detectives/CSI's without the counterpart to complete them. Though, the detective suffered from this more considering they couldn't really collect evidence while a CSI could at least conduct interviews and such in the absence of a detective.
niennab Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) I don't agree with the suggestion. As a Forensic Technician I already feel as though I am drowning without a Detective while I balance both piles of samples and interviews. There is simply too much required of a Forensic Technician (without a Detective) and although it may be worth giving the Detectives access to the lab, I can only imagine how frustrating it'd be when late joining and the Detective either refuses to hand over the kit, or with two kits, simply walks all over the FT, stealing the role from them. I can't speak for the Detective but personally I believe the Forensic's role currently has the perfect balance between being able to RP while also being able to participate in game mechanics. Also please god no, not one slot. It's bad enough as is for Forensic Technician characters trying to fight for the slot. Edited March 6, 2020 by niennab
N8-Toe Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 As someone who digs playing both Detective, and forensics tech. I love this and have wanted it for awhile. leave them as alt titles, add in two sets of equipment, and merge the offices into one big investigative suite.
splark Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 I think the attractiveness of this suggestion will vary, depending on whether you mainly play as a Detective, or as a Forensic Technician. In my experience, when they're on their own detectives tend to become either Security Officers with less restrictions. Investigations tend to rely more on obvious pieces of evidence (such as bloody footprints/oily shoes), and conclusions drawn from interrogation. On the other hand, a standalone FT tends to still act like an FT, and has to concern themselves with the collection of evidence--not because they don't have the ability/qualification to interview suspects, but because they don't have time. As an FT, you're expected to gather all relevant evidence, analyze it, and draw conclusions, which you then share with the department. It's above a random Officer's pay grade to parse data randomly blurted over the radio by the FT while said Officer is actively trying to handle the fallout generated by the crime, and come to the same conclusion as everyone else in the department. Having played both positions, I'd say that detectives play well for faster-paced rounds, able to round up suspects, grill them quickly, and release the innocents, whereas FTs play well for slower-paced rounds, where they have time to gather/process/analyze evidence, and turn it out in a CentComm-approved fashion. While giving detectives access to CSI gear would expand their gameplay capabilities, expecting FTs to act as a detective would likely just end with someone threatening crew to "stay away from the crime scene, stop contaminating it, Goddammit!" while waving a gun around. If I recall correctly, the two positions were originally split because it made it more realistic; just as real-life biologists don't go around playing with astrophysics like sci-fi says should happen when science-wizzes "Science it up!", real-world detectives don't try to analyze evidence for clues, because they are trained to read people, and to base their conclusions on that, whereas forensic investigators are trained on determining how something happened, interpreting the results to form a complete picture. To summarize: Combining the Detective and Forensic Technician positions would likely add some new expectations and capabilities to an occasionally-bored Detective's round, but wouldn't likely improve the round for the Forensic Technician in a measurable manner. While short (Secret) rounds may be more enjoyably played by a Detective, a Forensic Technician is going to have the same amount of tasks to complete regardless of the round type, but will be able to perform better in a longer (Extended) round. This merge seems like it would benefit Detective characters more than FT characters, so the question becomes: Can people who play Detectives be trusted to be responsibly with new/merged capabilities? If the answer is "yes", then it seems to me that the merge should go forward; of course, some gumshoes may not want to relinquish their CSI kit if an forensic tech arrives mid-round, but that's something to be solved ICly, by reasonable, responsible players. On the other hand, if the answer is "no", then, quite simply, the positions should not be merged. I'm sorry if this doesn't make much sense or if it meanders too much, it's late and it makes sense to me at the moment.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted March 4, 2020 Posted March 4, 2020 When they were the same job the CSI would always be overruled and his equipment appropriated. Detective is a VERY hot slot. It will dom the csi lab in every case. They already bang at the csi lab doors demanding the equipment. They provide very different jobs and approaches to crime solving. Both are valid. Keeping them seperate is important. It wasnt fun in the Before times.
Pratepresidenten Posted March 5, 2020 Posted March 5, 2020 I'd like this if it was only one job with an alt title, not two. I dont wanna do detective shit, and I dont want a detective to shit all over my workplace while I try to do the do.
Carver Posted March 5, 2020 Posted March 5, 2020 As an old Detective main, I would not be against seeing the return of the dominance of Detectives. Get those frilly noguns CSI/FT shits outta my workplace.
AmoryBlaine Posted March 8, 2020 Posted March 8, 2020 On 04/03/2020 at 02:39, niennab said: I don't agree with the suggestion. As a Forensic Technician I already feel as though I am drowning without a Detective while I balance both piles of samples and interviews. There is simply too much required of a Forensic Technician (without a Detective) and although it may be worth giving the Detectives access to the lab, I can only imagine how frustrating it'd be when late joining and the Detective either refuses to hand over the kit, or with two kits, simply walks all over the FT, stealing the role from them. I can't speak for the Detective but personally I believe the Forensic's role currently has the perfect balance between being able to RP while also being able to participate in game mechanics. Also please god no, not one slot. It's bad enough as is for Forensic Technician characters trying to fight for the slot. I agree with this sentiment here.
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