Remove Rats from Ghost Spawner

[Chada1]

4 hours ago, Kaed said:

Making something less common and more limited makes people treat it with more care.

This. 1000505505375x this.

[Carver]

Only if it were a single spawn per ckey per event, rather than letting one person have access to the full stack of 6-8 pests that come with the event.

[Sheeplets]

bump to further the anti-rat agenda

[Chada1]

Bumping this. I'd say removing rats as a playable role (by itself) and merging it into a general playable pest event that includes the other pests too is a solid idea that will make rats/yithians/etc more used and valued in rounds. Due to how rare it would be to play one, people would put more effort into playing one properly, etc.

[Sheeplets]

Bump.

[NewOriginalSchwann]

Rats are really just busywork for service and don't add anything beyond some person going "haha wouldn't it be funny if I took a bite out of every piece of food in the kitchen." After spending three hours experiencing the heavy role play task of setting up traps and throwing knives at an endless tide of bored ghost mains I can safely say that it would be a huge benefit to remove this from the game. I hate this spawner.

Edited November 10, 2020 by NewOriginalSchwann

[Sheeplets]

 

An example of the riveting, engaging roleplay this spawner provides.

[Zundy]

I used to care but no longer. Remove rats. I don't mind a more interesting pest related spawn (whatever that may be) but the only time I have seen or used the spawn is to cause sheningans which in hindsight you'd call LRP. Either that or you see the magical, mysterious hyper intelligent rats which are also silly.

[wowzewow]

Rats are like Clowns and Mimes - they're basically free passes to be a nuisance at best and a hindrance to actual roleplay at best.

And when people are actually PROUD to hinder roleplay and basically harass players, well.

Other than a vocal minority, I genuinely think that this role will not be missed

 

[niennab]

Please remove this ghost role. Nothing takes me quicker out of the round by a rat spamming airlocks or running amuck while I am trying to roleplay. Worse yet that I tend to play characters that don't want to kill rats and yet I am constantly forced to rid myself of them due to how overwelmingly awful they are.

[Doxxmedearly]

We're revisiting this and considering some alternative options. 

[Chada1]

On 12/11/2020 at 12:52, Doxxmedearly said:

We're revisiting this and considering some alternative options. 

One idea that is very good and would probably add a ton to rounds is to instead make the pest spawn event open ghost roles for a variety of different kinds of animal that can also just be rats, it could include spiders, snail fellows, rats, lizards, etc. And their limited lives (How many spawned, how many haven't been killed by Crew yet) would make people play them a lot more evasively and make Crew a lot less likely to actively hate them. So it could be more of a benefit to rounds than a detriment. Just my idea tho.

[Carver]

Making them limited won't mean people will stop being shitters, it just means they go from 10 or so respawns on average to 8 respawns.

[Chada1]

9 minutes ago, Carver said:

Making them limited won't mean people will stop being shitters, it just means they go from 10 or so respawns on average to 8 respawns.

You're absolutely wrong, yes it will. Because knowing they can't just respawn immediately on death, and that they are playing a limited, few in a round role, they will take it more seriously and be more careful.

[Carver]

I'm afraid one can't really take playing a rat with only mechanics for chewing on shit incessantly seriously. Their removal is long past it's due date.

[Chada1]

3 minutes ago, Carver said:

I'm afraid one can't really take playing a rat with only mechanics for chewing on shit incessantly seriously. Their removal is long past it's due date.

My suggestion isn't about keeping rats, it's about expanding the umbrella and making a lot of other things playable as well as rarely rats. The pest event spawns a lot more interesting things than just plain rats, and they could add a lot more to a round than chewing stuff. Not to mention it would be more fun for the Crew to see Lizards and Yithians and all of these other little animals crawling through the events around the Station rarely, it'd be fun

Not to mention, the pest event only fires every hour or so, you could expect making 4-5 pest spawns every now and again, and then that can also be tweaked.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Chada1

[Carver]

Wouldn't that merely be a spiritual continuation of an already undesirable feature, concerning that rats and other simple mobs are truly not very different in RP on offer in the slightest? Lizards are, in effect, slower and stupider green rats.

Having to chase some little shit out of the kitchen by throwing knives at it - whether it's a normal rat, a green rat or any other kind of rat - is not desirable gameplay for me as a chef. Nor is chasing something with the OOC intelligence of a human around as a janitor, especially when that something is played with the sole purpose of pestering people.

[Chada1]

8 minutes ago, Carver said:

Wouldn't that merely be a spiritual continuation of an already undesirable feature, concerning that rats and other simple mobs are truly not very different in RP on offer in the slightest? Lizards are, in effect, slower and stupider green rats.

Having to chase some little shit out of the kitchen by throwing knives at it - whether it's a normal rat, a green rat or any other kind of rat - is not desirable gameplay for me as a chef. Nor is chasing something with the OOC intelligence of a human around as a janitor, especially when that something is played with the sole purpose of pestering people.

The former isn't true because this would be entirely changing how the feature works, you'd be making them extremely limited, like 3-5 spawns every hour at best and that's not a given at all, and it could be even less than that.

The main issue with rats is that they have infinite respawns, you kill one, it comes back immediately, and so you have no choice but to trap everything. This would actually be impossible and extremely unlikely to happen with this change, because:

1; They're extremely limited, that inherently changes how the role is played, it's no longer a throw-away pest, the player actually considers their role valuable and limited and plays it seriously.

2; You kill them, they don't come back. The current issue rn is that they're infinite throw-away roles, but in this case it takes 1-4 minutes for them to spawn back in, and that's if someone hasn't already contained the others in some way, by killing them or jarring them or whatever else ? You're being extremely pessimistic here for no real reason whatsoever.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Chada1

[Zelmana]

So I pitched this idea many moons ago, but what if we actually improved Mouse / Rat RP instead of remove it?

 

The idea is that there is an additional maintenance area only accessible by pipework, where rats spawn. Inside there are some different things to interact with. A rat bar, if you will. A king rat? But of course. Also, enable a rat-language, that shows as squeaking to those who do not know it. That way rats and mice can communicate with each other.

If one were so inclined they could even make a rat vs mice sort of play style. Just think- it's a thing to do after you die other than observe.

 

Make Mice Mains Great Again

 

MMMGA

[Carver]

7 minutes ago, Chada1 said:

1; They're extremely limited, that inherently changes how the role is played, it's no longer a throw-away pest, the player actually considers their role valuable and limited and plays it seriously.

As someone who once went on another server some years ago, discovered that ghosts could play as station pets (Poly) and made a point of causing great annoyance with it: I can personally testify that limited spawns do absolutely nothing to discourage being a shitter with these things.

8 minutes ago, Chada1 said:

2; You kill them, they don't come back. The current issue rn is that they're infinite throw-away roles, but in this case it takes 1-4 minutes for them to spawn back in, and that's if someone hasn't already contained the others in some way, by killing them or jarring them or whatever else ? You're being extremely pessimistic here for no real reason whatsoever.

Read above.

[Chada1]

1 minute ago, Carver said:

As someone who once went on another server some years ago, discovered that ghosts could play as station pets (Poly) and made a point of causing great annoyance with it: I can personally testify that limited spawns do absolutely nothing to discourage being a shitter with these things.

And what level of roleplay was the server? Were rules in place discouraging this sort of gameplay? Because this kind of use wouldn't be tolerated here and go unpunished, even with rats it can get you bwoinked rn, even.

It'd become a lot easier to spot with limited roles.

Also, however, Poly and the other Station pets weren't limited in the way that these would be, they were always available on a round by round basis, these would be situational and depend on the event firing, which is an uncommon thing, and could be made even more uncommon.

So not really the same thing.

[Carver]

4 minutes ago, Chada1 said:

And what level of roleplay was the server? Were rules in place discouraging this sort of gameplay? Because this kind of use wouldn't be tolerated here and go unpunished, even with rats it can get you bwoinked rn, even.

It'd become a lot easier to spot with limited roles.

Also, however, Poly and the other Station pets weren't limited in the way that these would be, they were always available on a round by round basis, these would be situational and depend on the event firing, which is an uncommon thing, and could be made even more uncommon.

So not really the same thing.

You note that, yet the map already spawns rats in maintenance last I recall.

[Chada1]

4 minutes ago, Carver said:

You note that, yet the map already spawns rats in maintenance last I recall.

This is very true but we could always remove rats or just ... completely exclude those rats from the ghost spawner, this isn't hard to change.

[Doxxmedearly]

13 hours ago, Zelmana said:

what if we actually improved Mouse / Rat RP instead of remove it?

Not going to happen. There's no RP to improve.

 

13 hours ago, Zelmana said:

Make Mice Mains Great Again

 

MMMGA

I've never wanted to see a reply to one of my threads less than this tidbit right here.

 

Make no mistake, I would prefer the outright removal of them myself and this has not changed. However we are willing to work in a compromise to see if it makes anything better. I suspect it won't but nobody can say we didn't try. Anyway the current thought shared between Ferner and myself is to have pest random events spawn a set number of ghost roles for said pests. Rats is one, maybe lizards, who knows. No respawns. Limited number. If you're dead you're done. This way the event announcement serves as a notification to be ready for them, instead of just having players joining throughout the round and having to be on guard the whole time. Maybe there will be tweaks for making rats less irritating to catch. After all, the characters in a round are more important than a literal pest ghost role, and I have no issue giving them the advantage.

[DeadLantern]

Why do people care so much about this? Why do we need so much code and time dedicated just to make rats better for roleplay? The roleplay we have on station is about characters. Rats do not add to this. Catering to our rat population to make them interesting to play as for everyone sounds like a massive waste of time. Consider: What do we gain if we make rats fun? A minor blip on the round? A short anecdote that might affect characters?

No, it's not worth it. Rats are rats and people are people. This is a roleplay game about people. As far as I am concerned, rat roleplay does not add to people roleplay. It actually probably hinders it, because every bar/kitchen conversation is going to have to be interrupted so we can watch the chef fling knives at the rat. We should cater to observers. We should not cater to dead people. The game isn't about those people.

As long as rats are limited or removed, I am fine. No other option would be good for the game.