Adding Vannatusks, a strong hostile mob to the caverns.

[Mcspizzy]

Currently I am attempting to coordinate a PR which will add a new hostile mob to the station’s mines/caverns. The idea is to have a entity that is drawn or brought over by bluespace anomalies and/or phoron, similar to how slimes are done. The goal with them is to add a danger/threat to miners going out to do their thing, right now it’s pretty boring with the only real threat being the rare carp or pit fall. These creatures would be rare as well, granted - but for good reason. They will be very deadly, and extremely tough. The reason for this is because I think having the miners stick together and work as a team would promote actual RP to the job, as right now most miners simply solo alone - not really interacting with anyone for a majority of their round as they sit in the silent vacuum of space and click rocks. 

The key features for this mob are listed below:

- A high HP count, my hope is for it to be 750, which would be 25 laser rifle shots to put things into perspective. I think this is a decent amount considering most mining tools double as weapons and are quite powerful. There is also the fact as stated before that they should be hard to kill. Making the hp similar to 500 (horror form hp for the ling) would make for a easy kill for a decked out miner/security team. I want to promote team work with this mob, thus a high HP should help in this. 

-their movement speed will match or be slightly less than the normal human walk speed while wearing a voidsuit in space, allowing people to flee by sprinting if needed.

-There will be a 7 second grace period similar to how space bears worked, this will allow ill equipped players a chance to get away if they aren’t prepared to fight them without fear of being chased or attacked. Adding to this, they will have a blue glowing aura to them, along with sounds for when in an atmosphere and visible emotes - much like other simple mobs. This will hopefully prevent them from ganking people who can’t see them hiding in dark places.

-They will spawn only in the cavern randomly on each Z level with no more than 12 being spawned at round start, this is to ensure that they wont be bunched up by using preset spawn points and will hopefully keep players from attempting to form a meta. On top of this, they will only spawn outside of a certain radius from the station. This is to make sure round start miners don’t face them while mining close to the station or until they have the tools to. 

-They will have a ranged attack which will deal 15 brute damage and have a high chance of embedding the projectile into the target. Between shots will be a 10 second cool down. Most likely if possible the code for this will allow the projectiles to have a very poor accuracy so that this attack will be more of a warning then anything else outside of actual combat.

-They will have a melee attack using their claws. The attacks will deal 20 brute and use the puncture proc.

-Finally, as an incentive for killing one of these things they will be butcher-able for both their meat and - when using a scalpel be able to retrieve a bluespace crystal. Currently there is no way in-game to my knowledge to acquire one of these crystals, having them be obtainable from a being which came from a bluespace rift would make sense in my opinion. As for their meat, it will be toxic for humans and most other species to eat, and will be highly hallucinogenic with the three eye effects being used as a place holder until better effects can be made.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Mcspizzy
Editing and adding features and values.

[Chada1]

I've already expressed my love for this idea both in private and in public and my opinion hasn't changed. 

[Mcspizzy]

Realm made some feedback on discord, though it doesn’t seem they’re posting it here. I told them earlier that I’d respond to their posts here. Below is my response, each concern they have is in order with the feature list and marked with a >, mine are below:

> If it's not soloable by any antagonist role then it's a poor design. By design, you seem to intend to distract the entire security team to with not just one but up to 12 of these mobs - wasting time and ammunition in the process. This would not work on any round short of high-pop extended, and even then it's a very reasonable idea for Security to just ignore such a waste of time.

This sorta plays plays into the whole ‘team focus’ thing. Again, I wouldn’t expect a single player to be able to kill one all by themselves - and at that, I think by using the uplink you WOULD have the tools to do just that. I am not sure of exactly everything on the uplink, but I feel secure in saying that an antagonist probably could do it. Then again, why would they? Why would an antag try to solo one? And yes, security could ignore them, much like the miners can, this is why I made them slow and put in a grace period.

>You're not exactly going to be moving fast outside of the station. I'd expect them to be immobile with how ridiculously strong the rest of the points are.

This objection was made before I decided to make them as slow as a walking human in space with a voidsuit on. Hopefully this helps as yes - the normal human walk speed probably would be too fast. Feedback taken and changes have been made.


> I have nothing to really say to this. I can't imagine a grace period will be helpful once it's actually aggro'd.

Well...I can’t really say much on this other than that you seemed to have missed the point of the grace period. Coupled with the slow movement speed it is meant for a player to be able to escape if overwhelmed or ill equipped.

 

>I shouldn't need to explain why 12 of these is ridiculous. Even one would demand a solid 10-20 minutes of round time from an entire Security team. An antagonist squad like Mercs/Nukies might be able to DPS one down in 5 minutes, but at the cost of nearly ALL of their ammunition.

This point was also taken into consideration. As a result the HP which was initially going to be 1350 is now 750, slightly more than a ling horror form. On top of this, a change was made to ensure they spawn away from the station as mentioned in the OP, this will hopefully keep them from detracting too much from the round when one IS encountered. And about the merc team, again - why are antags going out of their way to fight one? If I were a merc I would kite one into the station to raise hell. Oh, I should also add; 12 is not the set amount, it is the maximum amount - their spawn rate will be random. I am however open to lowering this number to whatever, possibly having it be even something small as 1.

 

>A built-in ballistic firearm on something that tanky is essentially saying 'You can never go to this part of the asteroid'. Having it be RNG-reliant on whether it hits will also serve to make it even more frustrating to encounter if/when it DOES hit.

well, one, It’s not a firearm, two it by no means has the deadliness of a firearm when it can only fire every ten seconds. Ten seconds is a loooong time, go ahead and count it - no fast counting! And I fail to see how having a low RNG for it to hit could be a bad thing, I doubt it would be fun if it could hit with laser accuracy. What we can do though if it turns out to be bunk is lower the damage from 15 to say...I dunno, 7? However low it needs to be, or simply remove this feature from them. 

 

>Giving the tankiest thing in the game an energy sword is no better - and simply makes it arguably unfeasible to approach from the realistic perspective of using melee (as ranged will run out of ammo long before you kill this thing - unless it's intended to take 2-6 round trips to recharge weaponry, in which case it'll be 30 minutes to kill at the minimum).

Well, if it’s gonna be big and super slow, might as well have it hit hard? Why are you running up to the big bluespace monster, stop that. Seriously though, you have several avenues of not having to deal with these things if you don’t want to, why would you engage it in melee??

 

>With the sheer resource and time investment I'd be tempted for no less than a Deathsquad-tier exosuit or a pulse destroyer. No chems, nor even a crystal would be worth this.

I can’t exactly have this thing pop into either of those things for obvious reasons. Having them be a way to obtain something extremely rare that you can’t get any other way seems like a good item to me. Not to mention, their items do not need to give you a mechanical boost. This is an HRP server, I would be pretty flabbergasted if you couldn’t find some way of making RP out of eating LSD meat from another dimension or the prospects of possessing one of the most rare items in our fictional universe.

 

I am not sure how to @ people here...

Edited July 23, 2020 by Mcspizzy

[Carver]

 

7 minutes ago, Mcspizzy said:

> If it's not soloable by any antagonist role then it's a poor design. By design, you seem to intend to distract the entire security team to with not just one but up to 12 of these mobs - wasting time and ammunition in the process. This would not work on any round short of high-pop extended, and even then it's a very reasonable idea for Security to just ignore such a waste of time.

1-This sorta plays plays into the whole ‘team focus’ thing. Again, I wouldn’t expect a single player to be able to kill one all by themselves - and at that, I think by using the uplink you WOULD have the tools to do just that. I am not sure of exactly everything on the uplink, but I feel secure in saying that an antagonist probably could do it. Then again, why would they? Why would an antag try to solo one? And yes, security could ignore them, much like the miners can, this is why I made them slow and put in a grace period.

>You're not exactly going to be moving fast outside of the station. I'd expect them to be immobile with how ridiculously strong the rest of the points are.

2-This objection was made before I decided to make them as slow as a walking human in space with a voidsuit on. Hopefully this helps as yes - the normal human walk speed probably would be too fast. Feedback taken and changes have been made.


> I have nothing to really say to this. I can't imagine a grace period will be helpful once it's actually aggro'd.

3-Well...I can’t really say much on this other than that you seemed to have missed the point of the grace period. Coupled with the slow movement speed it is meant for a player to be able to escape if overwhelmed or ill equipped.

 

>I shouldn't need to explain why 12 of these is ridiculous. Even one would demand a solid 10-20 minutes of round time from an entire Security team. An antagonist squad like Mercs/Nukies might be able to DPS one down in 5 minutes, but at the cost of nearly ALL of their ammunition.

4-This point was also taken into consideration. As a result the HP which was initially going to be 1350 is now 750, slightly more than a ling horror form. On top of this, a change was made to ensure they spawn away from the station as mentioned in the OP, this will hopefully keep them from detracting too much from the round when one IS encountered. And about the merc team, again - why are antags going out of their way to fight one? If I were a merc I would kite one into the station to raise hell. Oh, I should also add; 12 is not the set amount, it is the maximum amount - their spawn rate will be random. I am however open to lowering this number to whatever, possibly having it be even something small as 1.

 

>A built-in ballistic firearm on something that tanky is essentially saying 'You can never go to this part of the asteroid'. Having it be RNG-reliant on whether it hits will also serve to make it even more frustrating to encounter if/when it DOES hit.

5-well, one, It’s not a firearm, two it by no means has the deadliness of a firearm when it can only fire every ten seconds. Ten seconds is a loooong time, go ahead and count it - no fast counting! And I fail to see how having a low RNG for it to hit could be a bad thing, I doubt it would be fun if it could hit with laser accuracy. What we can do though if it turns out to be bunk is lower the damage from 15 to say...I dunno, 7? However low it needs to be, or simply remove this feature from them. 

 

>Giving the tankiest thing in the game an energy sword is no better - and simply makes it arguably unfeasible to approach from the realistic perspective of using melee (as ranged will run out of ammo long before you kill this thing - unless it's intended to take 2-6 round trips to recharge weaponry, in which case it'll be 30 minutes to kill at the minimum).

6-Well, if it’s gonna be big and super slow, might as well have it hit hard? Why are you running up to the big bluespace monster, stop that. Seriously though, you have several avenues of not having to deal with these things if you don’t want to, why would you engage it in melee??

 

>With the sheer resource and time investment I'd be tempted for no less than a Deathsquad-tier exosuit or a pulse destroyer. No chems, nor even a crystal would be worth this.

7-I can’t exactly have this thing pop into either of those things for obvious reasons. Having them be a way to obtain something extremely rare that you can’t get any other way seems like a good item to me. Not to mention, their items do not need to give you a mechanical boost. This is an HRP server, I would be pretty flabbergasted if you couldn’t find some way of making RP out of eating LSD meat from another dimension or the prospects of possessing one of the most rare items in our fictional universe.

1) No, even with the revised health an antag would not be able to do so on their own without an immense time investment. That's more than enough health to freely tank an Anti-Material Rifle. Something on the asteroid visited by a handful of miners and xenoarchaeologists should not be a 'team effort', as by design you'd be pulling people away from the station (for no short amount of time, either) and thus away from the round (and the antagonists) - placing the focus on this monster over the roundtype itself.

3) 7 seconds is much shorter than you would in a dark, confined asteroid when you're wearing magboots and a voidsuit/hardsuit.

4) Why should they be stronger than the most potent, end-game ability of a changeling? Spawning them farther only means they'll either be ignored and a worthless addition (if no one engages with it, why even add it?), or they'll take further time and focus away from the round. There's no reasonable excuse to see something this tanky outside of adminbus events, if these things were more common than adminbus event rounds then NanoTrasen would have valid reasoning to give miners assault rifles and a dedicated guard.

5) A rose by any other name. An embedding brute damage projectile is functionally a ballistic firearm per how the game works, and even at 15 damage presents a significant risk (furthered by the dick-kick of RNG).

6) You would engage it in melee because whether 1.35k or 750 health, you will run out of ammunition and need to spend 5-20 minutes (with every single trip, if multiple) returning for more. You cannot kill something this strong in one go without an absolutely massive expenditure of ammunition, so logically the realistic approach on both a basis of DPS and not spending your whole fucking round (or dedicating the entire Security Team) is to use a melee weapon like an energy sword or a pike.

7) You demand a heavy combat-focus (and thus, mechanical focus) and expenditure of resources to kill this thing. I'm not going to go through all this effort for some jackoff crystal to give to an ungrateful scientist, or for some chems that would have been far more time and cost-effective to request a cocktail of similar usage from Chemistry itself. Other servers with ridiculous fights for miners give you tremendously interesting (and valuable) rewards such as high-tier armour, weapons or gimmicky yet powerful unique shit like the Obsidian Crown.

[Life]

Right, I like the idea from the mining side, but for xenoarchs who usually have to both work alone and travel around the asteroid more than miners, and also have no long range weapons or armor this just seems like a death sentence or a massive setback, especially if it spawns near an anomaly. And yeah, it's a HRP server, but a single bluespace crystal that you could already find in dungeons or crates is just a really boring reward.

[Chada1]

10 minutes ago, Life said:

Right, I like the idea from the mining side, but for xenoarchs who usually have to both work alone and travel around the asteroid more than miners, and also have no long range weapons or armor this just seems like a death sentence or a massive setback, especially if it spawns near an anomaly. And yeah, it's a HRP server, but a single bluespace crystal that you could already find in dungeons or crates is just a really boring reward.

These kinds of things can be solved later, and this may lead to the xenoarch + research/mining teams working together more often too. So this shouldn't count against the concept.

[Mcspizzy]

Just now, Life said:

Right, I like the idea from the mining side, but for xenoarchs who usually have to both work alone and travel around the asteroid more than miners, and also have no long range weapons or armor this just seems like a death sentence or a massive setback, especially if it spawns near an anomaly. And yeah, it's a HRP server, but a single bluespace crystal that you could already find in dungeons or crates is just a really boring reward.

They won’t have any correlation with anomalies, so rest assured they wont be a direct hurdle to getting artifacts and such. As for Xenoarchs traveling alone this could be handled the same way with miners - enlisting the help of miners and sec. I don’t really see a reason /why/ sec should’t be allowed to go outside the station when they have voidsuits, simply having their job be to hunt down the antag man is very narrow and powergamy way to look at them. And when I talk about that, I am also including what Carver just said of which I’ll get to soon. As for a crystal being a boring reward, do either of you have any suggestions as to what more or else they could drop?

 

As for @Carver, I am only going to respond to some of his post as most of it really comes down to differing opinions; like on the team based thing.

Responding to point 3. Seven seconds I feel is plenty, considering all you need to do to is break line of sight. This should be easy since the caverns are maze like and you have several tools you can use to make your own holes.

 

Responding to 5. No...It is not a firearm. If you think ten seconds is still to fast then we can raise it to 15, but I would rather not preemptively remove features unless a Dev requires it.

 

The rest of your posts I feel are simply too opinionated to reply to, barring the one about what they should drop. If you have any ideas on items that would be lore friendly to them and bluespace I would very much like to hear them.   

[Carver]

3 minutes ago, Mcspizzy said:

They won’t have any correlation with anomalies, so rest assured they wont be a direct hurdle to getting artifacts and such. As for Xenoarchs traveling alone this could be handled the same way with miners - enlisting the help of miners and sec. I don’t really see a reason /why/ sec should’t be allowed to go outside the station when they have voidsuits, simply having their job be to hunt down the antag man is very narrow and powergamy way to look at them. And when I talk about that, I am also including what Carver just said of which I’ll get to soon. As for a crystal being a boring reward, do either of you have any suggestions as to what more or else they could drop?

 

As for @Carver, I am only going to respond to some of his post as most of it really comes down to differing opinions; like on the team based thing.

Responding to point 3. Seven seconds I feel is plenty, considering all you need to do to is break line of sight. This should be easy since the caverns are maze like and you have several tools you can use to make your own holes.

 

Responding to 5. No...It is not a firearm. If you think ten seconds is still to fast then we can raise it to 15, but I would rather not preemptively remove features unless a Dev requires it.

 

The rest of your posts I feel are simply too opinionated to reply to, barring the one about what they should drop. If you have any ideas on items that would be lore friendly to them and bluespace I would very much like to hear them.   

There is nothing opinionated on my deconstruction of how, from the ground up, this design either takes over the focus of the round or is ignored entirely by mining.

I'm posting feedback on a feedback thread.

[Chada1]

Personally I'm v. much looking forward to this. I think it'll fill a p. large void on the asteroid, where we really just have nothing. A total of 2 animals are out there and they barely do anything. A little cat and mouse between these fellows and miners/xenoarchs will be !!A LOT OF FUN!!

[DronzTheWolf]

5 hours ago, Life said:

Right, I like the idea from the mining side, but for xenoarchs who usually have to both work alone and travel around the asteroid more than miners, and also have no long range weapons or armor this just seems like a death sentence or a massive setback, especially if it spawns near an anomaly. And yeah, it's a HRP server, but a single bluespace crystal that you could already find in dungeons or crates is just a really boring reward.

You don't have to be unarmed as xenoarch, literally just ask R&D to make you a KA or a gun. Alone, however, can be an issue.

[Chada1]

20 minutes ago, DronzTheWolf said:

You don't have to be unarmed as xenoarch, literally just ask R&D to make you a KA or a gun. Alone, however, can be an issue.

Firing pins (and regulations) would stop you from carrying guns outside of R&D, but I'm thinking of ways I can address this issue myself such as giving the Xenoarch their own mining vendor that they can access in a later PR. So seriously this isn't a point that should count against this concept ?

[HouseOfSynth]

I really like the idea of adding things to the asteroid, be it mobs or structures, to give it a bit more depth beyond "Oh hey this is a rock, it has ore that's about it." There are some things that I would probably change around so I'll go through the post point by point and try to be as detailed as possible.

13 hours ago, Mcspizzy said:

- A high HP count, my hope is for it to be 750, which would be 25 laser rifle shots to put things into perspective. I think this is a decent amount considering most mining tools double as weapons and are quite powerful. There is also the fact as stated before that they should be hard to kill. Making the hp similar to 500 (horror form hp for the ling) would make for a easy kill for a decked out miner/security team. I want to promote team work with this mob, thus a high HP should help in this. 

750 is pretty high, although I mostly have no issue with it. This'll be mostly covered in the points below since they tie into my thoughts. In essence I think the fact that they are an optional fight balances the high HP. You're not forced to go up against the tanky creature, you've got other options.

 

13 hours ago, Mcspizzy said:

-their movement speed will match or be slightly less than the normal human walk speed while wearing a voidsuit in space, allowing people to flee by sprinting if needed.

I would take into account that folks may also be using magboots so I'd opt for the "slightly less" option.

 

13 hours ago, Mcspizzy said:

-There will be a 7 second grace period similar to how space bears worked, this will allow ill equipped players a chance to get away if they aren’t prepared to fight them without fear of being chased or attacked.

I like this. This really sets the "this is an optional fight" in stone. However, I can see it being a bit tricky with the darkness as if one is within view but concealed in the darkness you're going to get slammed outa nowhere. One could argue this adds to the suspense but given the power of the creature I'd at least make it so that there is a glow to their accent colour, so you can pick them out a little easier in the dark.

 

13 hours ago, Mcspizzy said:

-They will spawn only in the cavern randomly on each Z level with no more than 12 being spawned at round start, this is to ensure that they wont be bunched up by using preset spawn points and will hopefully keep players from attempting to form a meta. On top of this, they will only spawn outside of a certain radius from the station. This is to make sure round start miners don’t face them while mining close to the station or until they have the tools to.

Numbers (12 max spawn) are pretty irrelevant in terms of an argument at this stage because it's so subject to change. The best way to find the best maximum is to test it of course so I don't think that number should sway the opinions of anyone who's reading through this. Spawning them away from the station is a good idea too. You can still get a good lot of mining points for decent equipment closer to the station so you won't be completely naked to them by the time you reach the outer limits. Another thing I would suggest is to give players an early warning that they're entering an area with one of these beasts. Rather than some "you feel a shiver in your spine" perhaps add more subtle warnings like sound cues, bones, ore on the ground or perhaps even small rifts. Giving the player plenty of warning, hopefully giving them the thought to maybe keep on their toes a little bit. This would also imply that the vannatusks are more territorial than openly hostile.

If people really don't like the idea of that grace period, perhaps shift the lore side of things a bit. Make it so that these creatures consume the ores around them, and that if one sees you mine the ore around it, it'll become hostile.

13 hours ago, Mcspizzy said:

-They will have a ranged attack which will deal 15 brute damage and have a high chance of embedding the projectile into the target. Between shots will be a 10 second cool down. Most likely if possible the code for this will allow the projectiles to have a very poor accuracy so that this attack will be more of a warning then anything else outside of actual combat.

-They will have a melee attack using their claws. The attacks will deal 30 brute and use the puncture proc.

The projectile seems pretty fair given it's very low accuracy. However, 30 brute is a lot. Enough to break limbs in one hit. So if it hits you in the leg, you're pretty much gauranteed to die. I'd recommend bringing that down slightly, so you can maybe get hit once and still escape. Value stuff is mainly whittled down through testing but I'm sure you'll be able to strike a good balance.

 

13 hours ago, Mcspizzy said:

-Finally, as an incentive for killing one of these things they will be butcher-able for both their meat and - when using a scalpel be able to retrieve a bluespace crystal. Currently there is no way in-game to my knowledge to acquire one of these crystals, having them be obtainable from a being which came from a bluespace rift would make sense in my opinion. As for their meat, it will be toxic for humans and most other species to eat, and will be highly hallucinogenic with the three eye effects being used as a place holder until better effects can be made.

Decent loot, not sure how much people use telescience these days but crystals are useful for it and for increasing bluespace levels in RnD I think. Could give science a reason to contract a few miners and/or security to go on a hunt, opening up some nice inter-department RP.

 

In conclusion, as I said, I really like the idea of giving the asteroid a bit more life. The sprites look freakin awesome. Beautifully animated and I think the gritty look compliments their location on the map, considering the asteroid is a pretty grungy, dark place. I think they do need a bit of tweaking, but no idea is ever perfect on the first rendition so don't let any criticisms get you down. Best of luck!

[Doxxmedearly]

Some quick thoughts:

750 health is still too ridiculously high. 

15 damage ranged projectiles are fine. Carp do that much damage with a bite, so I have no problems with that. 30 brute melee is... okay? Depends on other factors, like how easy they are to escape. It should be okay if it's in the 20-30 range. In fact, there's already code in place to semi-randomize damage from a lower and upper limit.

Speed should be very slow to encourage disengaging. Perhaps slower than you've proposed.

Grace period in the same way of bears is plenty. Anything that warns people getting close is a bad idea and gives them time to skidaddle is good. 

12 is still a high upper max, IMO. I'd go closer to half that. It is possible to have them spawn as part of a biological migration event, as well. Having them spawn far away as you plan to is a good idea.

Rewards can be tweaked. 

The sprites are incredible.

 

Overall, I see what you're going for, and as a base concept, I'm into it. More variety is good. The fact that it's not aggressive and gives warning is good; it makes it so it's optional to engage it. But some numbers need tweaking from what's been presented.

What do you view their default wandering behavior to be? Do they eat ore? Break rocks? Attack dwellers and carp?

Have you thought of any lore pitch to give for them?

[Mcspizzy]

34 minutes ago, HouseOfSynth said:

I really like the idea of adding things to the asteroid, be it mobs or structures, to give it a bit more depth beyond "Oh hey this is a rock, it has ore that's about it." There are some things that I would probably change around so I'll go through the post point by point and try to be as detailed as possible.

750 is pretty high, although I mostly have no issue with it. This'll be mostly covered in the points below since they tie into my thoughts. In essence I think the fact that they are an optional fight balances the high HP. You're not forced to go up against the tanky creature, you've got other options.

 

I would take into account that folks may also be using magboots so I'd opt for the "slightly less" option.

 

I like this. This really sets the "this is an optional fight" in stone. However, I can see it being a bit tricky with the darkness as if one is within view but concealed in the darkness you're going to get slammed outa nowhere. One could argue this adds to the suspense but given the power of the creature I'd at least make it so that there is a glow to their accent colour, so you can pick them out a little easier in the dark.

 

Numbers (12 max spawn) are pretty irrelevant in terms of an argument at this stage because it's so subject to change. The best way to find the best maximum is to test it of course so I don't think that number should sway the opinions of anyone who's reading through this. Spawning them away from the station is a good idea too. You can still get a good lot of mining points for decent equipment closer to the station so you won't be completely naked to them by the time you reach the outer limits. Another thing I would suggest is to give players an early warning that they're entering an area with one of these beasts. Rather than some "you feel a shiver in your spine" perhaps add more subtle warnings like sound cues, bones, ore on the ground or perhaps even small rifts. Giving the player plenty of warning, hopefully giving them the thought to maybe keep on their toes a little bit. This would also imply that the vannatusks are more territorial than openly hostile.

If people really don't like the idea of that grace period, perhaps shift the lore side of things a bit. Make it so that these creatures consume the ores around them, and that if one sees you mine the ore around it, it'll become hostile.

The projectile seems pretty fair given it's very low accuracy. However, 30 brute is a lot. Enough to break limbs in one hit. So if it hits you in the leg, you're pretty much gauranteed to die. I'd recommend bringing that down slightly, so you can maybe get hit once and still escape. Value stuff is mainly whittled down through testing but I'm sure you'll be able to strike a good balance.

 

Decent loot, not sure how much people use telescience these days but crystals are useful for it and for increasing bluespace levels in RnD I think. Could give science a reason to contract a few miners and/or security to go on a hunt, opening up some nice inter-department RP.

 

In conclusion, as I said, I really like the idea of giving the asteroid a bit more life. The sprites look freakin awesome. Beautifully animated and I think the gritty look compliments their location on the map, considering the asteroid is a pretty grungy, dark place. I think they do need a bit of tweaking, but no idea is ever perfect on the first rendition so don't let any criticisms get you down. Best of luck!

Thank you for the post, I’m gonna go through this as some things talked in this post have or will be implemented upon being added to the game. 
 

On the topic of movement speed, I feel that lowering it to the point of magboot use /might/ be too slow, as by that point briskly walking away from one With or without a suit on would be easily done. People who have magboots to my game knowledge are able to turn them off as well, so I think waiting until actual gameplay to see if they’re still too fast might be the best course.

 

adding onto the grace period, @Chada1has offered to add a blue glowing aura to them to both make them easier to see and also set the mood further that these are dimensional creatures from bluespace. They will also have sounds that will play when they’re in an atmosphere, and otherwise have text emotes that will appear while in space. Both of these together will hopefully be enough que to alert players to them. If not, we can always see about adding the ‘bad feeling’ text to them.

 

Mulling over the 30 damage, I’m starting to agree that it might be too much...upon release we’ll have them down to 20 and see how that plays out. 

 

I picked the points in your post that seemed to have the most concern attached to them, Synth, if you’d like me to cover the rest of what you said I’ll be glad to. Besides that, thanks for the feedback!

[Mcspizzy]

I’ve edited the OP post with the new values.

[Peppermint]

I still don't see why anyone would fight this thing just for bluespace crystals which, whilst rare, really aren't that useful.

 

The model is great, but it's the same logic as to why people don't go and fight the worm mob out on the rock - what's the point, bragging rights aside? I also don't think it's very reasonable to expect the entire security team to head out to fight this thing. Though that's just an echo of what everyone else has said; the mob itself would be a great addition, it just seems a little overtunned for minimal reward.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Lemei

[Chada1]

2 hours ago, Lemei said:

I still don't see why anyone would fight this thing just for bluespace crystals which, whilst rare, really aren't that useful.

 

The model is great, but it's the same logic as to why people don't go and fight the worm mob out on the rock - what's the point, bragging rights aside? I also don't think it's very reasonable to expect the entire security team to head out to fight this thing. Though that's just an echo of what everyone else has said; the mob itself would be a great addition, it just seems a little overtunned for minimal reward.

We can always expand what they give at a later time too. ?

[Mcspizzy]

5 hours ago, Doxxmedearly said:

Some quick thoughts:

750 health is still too ridiculously high. 

15 damage ranged projectiles are fine. Carp do that much damage with a bite, so I have no problems with that. 30 brute melee is... okay? Depends on other factors, like how easy they are to escape. It should be okay if it's in the 20-30 range. In fact, there's already code in place to semi-randomize damage from a lower and upper limit.

Speed should be very slow to encourage disengaging. Perhaps slower than you've proposed.

Grace period in the same way of bears is plenty. Anything that warns people getting close is a bad idea and gives them time to skidaddle is good. 

12 is still a high upper max, IMO. I'd go closer to half that. It is possible to have them spawn as part of a biological migration event, as well. Having them spawn far away as you plan to is a good idea.

Rewards can be tweaked. 

The sprites are incredible.

 

Overall, I see what you're going for, and as a base concept, I'm into it. More variety is good. The fact that it's not aggressive and gives warning is good; it makes it so it's optional to engage it. But some numbers need tweaking from what's been presented.

What do you view their default wandering behavior to be? Do they eat ore? Break rocks? Attack dwellers and carp?

Have you thought of any lore pitch to give for them?

I’m gonna be very tough on keeping it at 750 until either it proves to be too much ingame or via testing before merge. Reason for this is because in all honesty, weapons do more damage than people think. For example, the base KA. I do not expect anyone to use this to fight them given the parameters of normal encounter, I.E. going to the outer edges of the caverns to mine. But for the sake of this let’s assume a miner did try to fight with the base KA. The base KA which spawns in does 25 brute per shot in an AOE and has virtually unlimited ammo considering all you have to do is pump to recharge.

 

You would need to hit the Vanna 30 times to kill it. Granted, you probably wont hit each shot dead on - but you have ample time to fall back and recharge as much as you need. This is assuming you are fighting it alone, which you shouldn’t be. The entire design of this creature revolves around at least two people working together. With two miners using base KAs that means they both only have to hit it fifteen times each, and with upgraded and better weapons that number goes down and down for how many hits it needs to kill. Looking at another weapon, the laser rifle. You would need only two officers with rifles to kill one - or a laser rifle and a mag of .45, which for both shouldn’t be an issue due to how slow they are.

The entire point of it having high HP is to discourage solo fighting, of which never needs to happen in the first place. Remove the HP, you remove the threat and defeat one of the main purposes of this mob.

 

As for their behavior, the idea I have so far is for them to be sort of...disgruntled. They’re outside their natural habitat and are most likely dazed due to the totally alien environment they are in. Without going going into the lore of bluespace itself I would have to say they are simply creatures ripped from they’re home dimension due to rifts; they’re too stupid to understand what’s going on and thus are hostile to the unknown and for them probably unknowable. And yes, I’ve poked Kryes a few times - they’ve yet to respond. 
 

Oh, also - I’ll see about the 20-30 melee damage range, I wasn’t aware that was a thing.

 

4 hours ago, Lemei said:

I still don't see why anyone would fight this thing just for bluespace crystals which, whilst rare, really aren't that useful.

 

The model is great, but it's the same logic as to why people don't go and fight the worm mob out on the rock - what's the point, bragging rights aside? I also don't think it's very reasonable to expect the entire security team to head out to fight this thing. Though that's just an echo of what everyone else has said; the mob itself would be a great addition, it just seems a little overtunned for minimal reward.

If you have suggestions for what they could drop I’m open to it, assuming it makes sense for them and the lore. Keep in mind though that there really aren’t any mobs besides these and slimes though that really /drop/ anything - this is a fairly new thing for Aurora mobs as far as I know. Lastly, you’ve got to remember what a BS crystal is. It’s probably one of the most valuable things in the game, there’s got to be some sort of RP you can generate with that. After all this is an HRP server.

[DronzTheWolf]

Another idea for drops could be vials of the Bluespace Dust secret chem, as well as some stuff that might be more unique like maybe some kind of (Rare/very rare drop) gland or something that if consumed has a chance to give you the Bluespace Prophet trauma/ability. Just more Bluespace stuff alltogether, and stuff that'd insensitiveize people to fight them rather than avoid them. Maybe even make it so you can skin/butcher them and make a decently strong armor from their chitinous looking plates? 

[Skull132]

This harks back to a discussion had a few years ago about mining mobs. Basically, the question was what kind of mine mobs would be nice and what kind not. The main issue with adding clearly combat related monsters (big creepy things whose primary function is to beat ass) is that it may result in miners becoming hard core combatants. Which is not necessarily a good thing for our setting. Tighter integration with security or some other form of militia might alleviate it, eg. if we had a generic mercenary group on-hand to help deal with the more precarious situations in mining and on away-missions, but that is not presently the case.

Overall, IMO the inclusion of these would depend on how regularly they spawn, first and foremost.

[Mcspizzy]

14 minutes ago, Skull132 said:

This harks back to a discussion had a few years ago about mining mobs. Basically, the question was what kind of mine mobs would be nice and what kind not. The main issue with adding clearly combat related monsters (big creepy things whose primary function is to beat ass) is that it may result in miners becoming hard core combatants. Which is not necessarily a good thing for our setting. Tighter integration with security or some other form of militia might alleviate it, eg. if we had a generic mercenary group on-hand to help deal with the more precarious situations in mining and on away-missions, but that is not presently the case.

Overall, IMO the inclusion of these would depend on how regularly they spawn, first and foremost.

I would have to say without making them a random event they would be present in the conditions listed in the OP on every round. I think though that with them being a small population, and the asteroid as a whole being a very large place coupled with them being out a ways from the station fighting them will not be a constant factor in rounds. As put, for the most part they will be optional to fight, with the worst case being someone having to lure one and then run to escape.

 

EDIT: I’d also say, having them be a random event might be a bad idea to do. It would suck pretty hard to have one spawn right ontop of you.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Mcspizzy

[Scheveningen]

Some considerations: since they look rather insectoid, why not make the Vannatusks above part of a warrior class of upright nasty space bugs? Leaves more room for specialized NPC enemies to play around, and the nature of their spawn points can be adjusted around the defense and expansion of their primary hives and breeding grounds. Consider the Kwama from morrowind for instance: https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Kwama_(Morrowind)

Something that may also be interesting is making the integration of these nasty space upright space bugs into some exploitable interactive way so that the station can still exploit these buggers with some risk involved should the hive's reproductive organisms choose to breed the nastier Vannatusks shown above. I feel like if you wanna go with the theme of NPC enemies for miners to have to fight (or exploit for cargo's financial gain), go hard on this. Having merely big upright beefcake enemies that miners can't easily take down alone would be somewhat boring and would pretty much kill any reason for playing the job if there's no ostensible, rewarding reason to go very far from a mining airlock.

[Roostercat]

Upon doing some testing in the thunderdome, at 350 health it appears this thing can solo a warform. This thing is way too powerful. It also took almost a full particle SMG (which are usually near instakill weapons) and also a full laser shotty. Please god tone this down, since atm this is just something to encourage PKs

[Melariara]

Its also extremely loud.