2 dismissals Removal of the spare identification

[Scheveningen]

The spare identification has been a classic aspect of SS13 gameplay since time immemorial. Unfortunately this also means it's been the only high-risk item that matters because having the hand teleporter or other means of creative mobility on demand seems rather redundant if you can walk through every other airlock and then close it much faster than anyone can respond. It is within my belief that the spare identification is a form of in-round power that is far too easily accessed through illegitimate means, and acquiring said 'power' in the round requires absolutely no interaction with any other inhabitants of the round. Normally one would think that the act of acquiring the spare ID would have its risks: you'd be wrong. Immediately acquiring the spare ID means you have a flexible number of potential escapes from the captain's office instead of just the way you got in. Command airlocks are just like any other airlock and do not have randomized electronics. Making them do so would just make it so that the ideal option is to cut a wall or slice through a window since those two are faster than hacking a secure airlock. In essence, there is no reasonable way to keep the spare identification as it is, and defending the spare identification behind a guard of auto-turrets would be as equivalent as erasing the spare identification from existence. Simply removing the spare identification from the captain's office and the NSS Aurora entirely would be much simpler and would not require 5d gymnastics justifications.

Let's talk about some potential consequences of this. Bear with me, for I expect these and many other arguments in spades well in advance.

1. Antagonists have to buy the agent ID, or pick-up a toolbelt or manipulate others to enable access to places their job doesn't intend them to be.
It is my personal belief that "having" to do something that makes you interact with others in the round is universally a good thing moreso than it is a bad thing. This is an RP environment much as is the way that a DnD campaign is an RP environment. The players expect to interact with the villain and the other way around. Having to require time investment and actual careful covering of one's own tracks to break into, out of, around areas helps simulate that petty-to-grand thievery is not as simple as "I walk in, take what I want and leave." Requiring either specialized tools to break in or someone to have helped the antagonist into an area they legally shouldn't be in makes it so that there's a bit of actual brainpower required to accomplish any meaningful objective. The Agent ID is also a pretty good tool already, but sadly made redundant thanks to how easy it is to acquire the spare and then keep its power throughout the entire round.

Also consider, hacking a borg would be a disproportionately amazing option should that fit your character. If you really want a key to the station, being forced to resort to interact with another player is a fantastic idea. Likewise, the emag is going to cut into your TC budget anyway.

2. Breaking into [insert secure area here] alone would be impossible!
Well, good. Bring a friend, you'll have loads of fun trying to stage a heist on the vault without the ease of the spare ID. That might actually be a challenge that requires a bit of planning to defeat all the turrets with whatever guns you have.

3. The head of personnel and captain are now massive targets!
Well, good. They should be already? But now antagonists have that as their only resort if they want more specific access, which gives direct indication that indeed, someone does have something as dangerous as all-access to the entire station. It leaves evidence that an antagonist did in fact interact with one of the inhabitants of the station instead of completely sidelining interaction to complete IC objectives, which defeats the point of playing an antagonist. Most assuredly a majority of people who already play command internally burn with a desire to actually meaningfully interact with an antagonist, so a simple stick-up would probably make anyone's day. The risk involved be damned.

4. But what about command staff in an emergency? What about head of personnel/captain becoming high-priority roles?
Command staff having to be creative and think around their access limits? The HOP/Captain jobs actually being played by command whitelistees? Don't tease me.
Let's be honest, having the spare ID or no will not always change the outcome of a round. The fact that the station and the round antagonists are both potentially incapable of having it during a round with no HOP/captain is perhaps more of a good thing than it is a bad one. It becomes a situation of two sides being pit against each other with their own limitations of access and requirements of creativity to get into or out of certain places. "I guess I'll just deal with the round going to hell when me being unable to do anything about it" is the exact spirit of playing a cult round as a station job, for instance. Sometimes rounds go to hell, and that's okay! That's literally the spirit of SS13. If this change makes it more often that's actually not entirely a bad thing.

5. These are massive ninja/wizard/merc/heist nerfs!
Oh no, whatever will they do? The ninja can just teleport away, the wizard can knock airlocks open (straight into the armory to fireball the lockers, I might add, if not also knock the lockers too - not sure if it does that here), mercenaries literally spawn with epic gamer tools and heisters get budget epic gamer tools to spawn with also. I guess they will just have to deal with it.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Scheveningen

[Carver]

I'm going to go with the hardest no I've ever given any suggestion for just how much it fucks over everyone involved. The core issues with it being easily stolen lay upon the poor map design (spare-theft was rarely an issue on Box/Exodus because the bridge was dead center, the AI physically heard everything, and the Cap office had no windows) and this strange trend of encouraging AIs to meta-ignore antagonists.

This makes it far easier to 'softlock' the crew in a myriad of situations when a specific, important form of access may not be available for lack of either a specific role or Command in general. Similarly, your encouragement of making certain roles bigger targets will only further the issues of ganking - and for the most trivial of reasons at that. Not to mention that you can no longer stealthily acquire heightened access, as stealing an ID without being caught requires permanently removing a player from  the round. Agent IDs, similarly, are now rather worthless in any form of stealth where you need more than their baseline maintenance access + whatever access you have on your roundstart ID.

Your argument of encouraging antagonists to get a toolbelt is also laughable because that's what they needed in the first place to steal said ID - because as trivial as it in to break in, you still can't just walk in freely without a form of teleportation or vent-crawling (a grand total of two rare off-station antagonist roles, in addition to changelings whom don't have uplink access).

Let's get to the worst of this - the inability to have an Acting Captain without an HoP (or dead Captain whom hasn't lost their ID), and the ripple effect of how this prevents access changes on rounds without either of the two roles. Combine that with this being a server that practices Command Whitelisting, meaning you are never guaranteed either role at any time (and during particular times of day, quite often will lack both).

[Cnaym]

That card is mostly used to escape terrible rounds by a crew without command that cannot stand the power fantasy of the antags anymore ^_^

Or to inform central / swipe for ERT when no command staff is around. It provides more RP by existing.

I'd prefer it to be a stationary terminal so people would stop hiding the thing and messing up antag / crew plans. No idea why antags and captains frequently think it's a good idea to hide it.

Have to fully agree with Carver here, this removal is very unlikely to improve a thing.

[geeves]

i would love to see this through, but as it stands, too much actual gameplay hinges on access, without much way of getting it

i can see this working if we add a semi-complex mini-game of hacking a special ID terminal that grants you access or whatever

[niennab]

My biggest issue with this comes down to what would transpire on low-pop hours. I have gone through too many rounds where the station is assaulted by a massive migration or hivebots and there is no command or a warden. Access to the spare in these situations is crucial. Worse yet when these are extended rounds.

[Boggle08]

I get what you're putting down, but I dunno about losing out on the spare, because of the dreaded solo command lowpop CBT power hour. That thing is your golden ticket, man. And that's if the antags haven't already decided to swipe it for themselves. Station bounds are a thing, sure, but they're not always on, and they're not always on the station's side. Especially on lowpop. I would be cool about losing the spare if we had a new system in place that encouraged variety in playstyles and antag stratagem, like what you are proposing, but the spare is an immense utility to the crew when we don't have enough command members, stationbounds, or just personnel in general. It's useful even on extended rounds. It is too much utility to lose for both parties without a suitable replacement system.

[Kryostro]

This only serves to be a detriment to both antagonists and crew-members, yes, this sounds good on paper, but in actual process I can only imagine the effects to be nightmarish. It's a suggestion with good intentions, but overall wouldn't help without a suitable replacement or further thought put into it, because as it stands, removing the spare doesn't have any outweighing pros. Perhaps when the wave of nerfs have concluded, this could be looked at again, otherwise, as said previously, no dice.

[Lordnesh]

I would support changing this to some sort of special terminal that can upgrade an inserted ID. One that could be hacked/magicked to be used by antags in general, and general crew in extreme cases *cough* engineers/science. This would ensure that someone couldn't just hide it, and completely negate certain crew responses to antags, as well as negate certain antag gimmicks.

Removing it completely? I don't think I can get behind that.

[StationCrab]

Well one thing is for sure, an item of such great power should not just be sitting out on a wooden desk. If we choose to keep it, secure it.

[Arrow768]

While I dislike the antag mo of “rush the spare and get the access”, there are legitimate situations where the additional access the spare provides is needed.

ie no command members online / no hop online / ...

Therefore I have to vote for dismissal.
That said, I might explore other options in the future to discourage the use of the spare id by antagonists and encourage them to acquire the access via other means.

[Zyrus]

7 hours ago, Arrow768 said:

While I dislike the antag mo of “rush the spare and get the access”, there are legitimate situations where the additional access the spare provides is needed.

ie no command members online / no hop online / ...

Therefore I have to vote for dismissal.
That said, I might explore other options in the future to discourage the use of the spare id by antagonists and encourage them to acquire the access via other means.

It isn't going to work. The spare is low risk high reward, and there's very little reason not to go for it ASAP. Put obstacles in front of it, and the antag player will just work around them.

[Fluffy]

Ontop of what Arrow indicated, the spare ID is currently much needed to avoid a premature capture/death of the antagonists, and allow more movement without unduly time spent hacking doors or similar, therefore, seconding the vote for dismissal.