Carver Posted October 11, 2021 Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) I'll paint a picture: Imagine you're NanoTrasen or the SCC. You've hired on a massive pack of a highly aggressive, strong and oversized species. Do you, A) Improve your handcuff design, taking into account the strength of these creatures, which shouldn't be terribly difficult given your cuffs are made of strong metal alloys? B) Continue using cheap, crappy handcuffs with the relative strength of a tied piece of rope; despite that your crews will likely include many of this dangerous species? Cuffbreaking simply does not make sense in this context. I can understand the fragility of zipties and cablecuffs - those are cheap, disposable and either makeshift or designed for quantity over quality. But these are solid metal handcuffs, designed with the idea that some idiot is going to try and break them like a midget against a squad car. In summary: I suggest making standard handcuffs unbreakable for all but the most extraordinary cases (Berserk Vampires? Hunter-Killers? Anything that isn't common crew, effectively), while letting zipties and cablecuffs retain their ease-of-breakability. Demonstration of the currently existing mechanic by the average criminal, compared with the 'resist' of most other species: Edited October 12, 2021 by Carver Added an image since people are commenting without actually knowing what I'm talking about.
Faye <3 Posted October 11, 2021 Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) lame imo. getting cuffed shouldn't be a game ender for antags, and we already punish ppl for cuff spamming. this would also make it awful for hostages Edited October 11, 2021 by Faye <3
Caelphon Posted October 11, 2021 Posted October 11, 2021 This sounds horrible for antags. I don't see how this would be helpful for anyone besides those actually placing the handcuffs. If anything, include a new set of handcuffs (only one) in the armoury that is made out of like, the strongest material in the auroraverse or something. Even something like that makes me iffy, as someone will just take it out and use it anyway in a normal case. Rather just keep it as is.
ChevyChevron Posted October 11, 2021 Posted October 11, 2021 Speaking as someone who cuffs more than I get cuffed, I don't think this would be a positive change. As it stands, winding up in cuffs is already round-ending for most antagonists and from a game balance perspective it wouldn't be wise to make it even harder for antagonists to escape. That said, I agree that it's somewhat unrealistic, but I think that's a sacrifice we have to make for the sake of making the game mechanics fun.
Zelmana Posted October 11, 2021 Posted October 11, 2021 If this is implemented there should be a mitigating buff to cuffs as well. The horrible slipping-cuff stealth for example. A shitty officer could be in the Warden's office could be down the hall and around the corner but get some big red text in chat if you are trying to slip them. A stealthier escape option should be added for cuffs, or a more drastic change, you should only notice cuff-slip attempts within 1 tile or upon examine of the cuffed (within 8 tiles).
Carver Posted October 12, 2021 Author Posted October 12, 2021 20 hours ago, Faye <3 said: lame imo. getting cuffed shouldn't be a game ender for antags, and we already punish ppl for cuff spamming. this would also make it awful for hostages 20 hours ago, Caelphon said: This sounds horrible for antags. I don't see how this would be helpful for anyone besides those actually placing the handcuffs. If anything, include a new set of handcuffs (only one) in the armoury that is made out of like, the strongest material in the auroraverse or something. Even something like that makes me iffy, as someone will just take it out and use it anyway in a normal case. Rather just keep it as is. If I wasn't apparent enough with my example, when I say cuffbreak, I'm talking about Unathi and similar. I do not care about the normal cuff escape, that is fine, I do not want that changed - but I do want common station species to not entirely disregard the mechanics that others are subjected to. These species having a snowflake mechanic previously limited to hulks (and by extension mutated wizards). Cuffbreaking =/= Cuff Escape, and this suggestion is not mutually exclusive with any buff to the latter mechanic, but suggests a parity among crew races when properly arrested (i.e. via handcuffs, not zipties or cable cuffs). Having limited 'special handcuffs' is also a frankly ridiculous idea, given again, handcuffs are not remotely expensive to produce and NT/SCC hire on a plethora of these particular races.
canon35 Posted October 12, 2021 Posted October 12, 2021 I'd be up for a change like this. It strikes me as meme-tier that flesh and bone species can just pull a superhero stunt and snap metal handcuffs like they're nothing. Limiting organics at the very least to having to do the usual 2 minute cuff-picking would be preferable.
Shadow7889 Posted October 12, 2021 Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) Hard pass. Getting cuffed as it is is a game killer for most antags. Cuffs need to have their red text removed unless within two tiles, not buffed. Edited October 12, 2021 by Shadow7889
Carver Posted October 12, 2021 Author Posted October 12, 2021 3 hours ago, Shadow7889 said: Hard pass. Getting cuffed as it is is a game killer for most antags. Cuffs need to have their red text removed unless within two tiles, not buffed. You don't seem to notice that this idea is not mutually exclusive with cuff escaping being buffed, especially given I expressed support of that separate thread. It is solely a suggested removal of physically shattering the cuffs in a matter of seconds with bare hands, done by specific species. A particularly overpowered mechanic that I will produce a demonstration of: Want a buff for Unathi antags? Give Security a reason to not watch Unathi antags like a fucking hawk. The removal of a five second cuff shattering for a specific handful of unbalanced races would not, in absolutely any form, be mutually exclusive with any suggested buffs for the 2 minute cuff escape. Make your own thread if you want that buffed, because that is wholly unrelated to my suggestion here.
Triogenix Posted October 12, 2021 Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) I like this, after Carver expanded a bit more here I'm fully behind it. I get lore reasons for species to be stronger then another, but the massive difference in time to break vs. time to slip is way to big, and shouldn't be a thing for a basic member of a species. 15 hours ago, Carver said: If I wasn't apparent enough with my example, when I say cuffbreak, I'm talking about Unathi and similar. I do not care about the normal cuff escape, that is fine, I do not want that changed - but I do want common station species to not entirely disregard the mechanics that others are subjected to. These species having a snowflake mechanic previously limited to hulks (and by extension mutated wizards). Cuffbreaking =/= Cuff Escape, and this suggestion is not mutually exclusive with any buff to the latter mechanic, but suggests a parity among crew races when properly arrested (i.e. via handcuffs, not zipties or cable cuffs). Having limited 'special handcuffs' is also a frankly ridiculous idea, given again, handcuffs are not remotely expensive to produce and NT/SCC hire on a plethora of these particular races. Edited October 12, 2021 by Triogenix
Marlon P. Posted October 12, 2021 Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) How often is this Unathi mechanic abused? It's been present for around three years. Edited October 12, 2021 by Marlon P.
DekserBecauseILostMyAccoun Posted October 13, 2021 Posted October 13, 2021 (edited) I used to agree with this but upon further thought- why would NT need to invest money in expensive nathi cuffs when they can just fire the Unathi that break regulation? As for antags just give security straight jackets ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Edited October 13, 2021 by DekserBecauseILostMyAccoun
Butterrobber202 Posted October 13, 2021 Posted October 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, DekserBecauseILostMyAccoun said: As for antags just give security straight jackets ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I think the general population wants security to not have better restraints, which this is the opposite of.
DekserBecauseILostMyAccoun Posted October 13, 2021 Posted October 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, Butterrobber202 said: I think the general population wants security to not have better restraints, which this is the opposite of. Fair enough, though I'm still eh about entirely removing the ability since they have a resist mod of 2.5 and having that imbalance of strength would be weird. I'd suggest raising the timer of cuff breakage for Unathi to 40 seconds?
Scheveningen Posted October 14, 2021 Posted October 14, 2021 Pass on this. The problem far moreso lies within the prevalence of changeling armblades giving them a free, instantaneous cuffbreak for free, whereas Unathi antagonists are not nearly as prevalent nor inherently problematic in their mechanical design or intended behavior. At least Unathi give you a 5 second notice.
Carver Posted October 15, 2021 Author Posted October 15, 2021 18 hours ago, Scheveningen said: Pass on this. The problem far moreso lies within the prevalence of changeling armblades giving them a free, instantaneous cuffbreak for free, whereas Unathi antagonists are not nearly as prevalent nor inherently problematic in their mechanical design or intended behavior. At least Unathi give you a 5 second notice. Changelings have had so many ways over the years to escape capture and confinement that I'm long past expecting them to be held if they don't want to be. In a way, it's a strange part of their exceedingly resilient core design of coming back from everything. On the other hand; this Unathi ability requires no special antag status, no investment of any resource, no preparation or forethought, and a precise five second window that ensures that Security has to have someone perpetually watching ANY (male) Unathi they arrest. As I said before, it only encourages Security to watch them like a hawk, thus taking away from their ability to perform any more clever or inventive methods of escape. Plus, given it's something every single male Unathi can do, there's no form of meta-protection whatsoever compared to antags w/ freedom implants or lings.
Marlon P. Posted October 15, 2021 Posted October 15, 2021 4 hours ago, Carver said: On the other hand; this Unathi ability requires no special antag status, no investment of any resource, no preparation or forethought, and a precise five second window that ensures that Security has to have someone perpetually watching ANY (male) Unathi they arrest. As I said before, it only encourages Security to watch them like a hawk, thus taking away from their ability to perform any more clever or inventive methods of escape. Doesn't seem like a bad thing. It's a challenge you dont face with other species. Watching them isnt inherently bad. Its big bold red text. Thats a decent chunk of time to be outside everyone's visual range. As well, they scream. It even screams through the radio. Even if you dont see the initial breaking attempt, you see the result. They gain the benefit of having escaped but the drawback of everyone within visual range instantly knowing that it's coming as well as having time to prepare. As a unathi main and the previous maintainer I've never seen it become an undue burden upon the unathi antagonists or an unfair burden upon security.
Carver Posted October 18, 2021 Author Posted October 18, 2021 On 15/10/2021 at 02:20, Marlon P. said: Doesn't seem like a bad thing. It's a challenge you dont face with other species. Watching them isnt inherently bad. Its big bold red text. Thats a decent chunk of time to be outside everyone's visual range. As well, they scream. It even screams through the radio. Even if you dont see the initial breaking attempt, you see the result. They gain the benefit of having escaped but the drawback of everyone within visual range instantly knowing that it's coming as well as having time to prepare. As a unathi main and the previous maintainer I've never seen it become an undue burden upon the unathi antagonists or an unfair burden upon security. I'm pretty sure it only screams through the radio because the code for it is straight up ripped from hulks, who screamed over radio whenever they'd smash anything at all. That's a bigger part of my issue with it, is being a holdover designed for an insanely unbalanced and rare mutation from the removed role of genetics/geneticists.
Marlon P. Posted October 18, 2021 Posted October 18, 2021 I am the one that requested the feature. I believe the radio shouting is working as intended. Unathi are strong and dangerous in melee combat. Their cuffbreaking reflects their dangerous nature as a combatant. However this threat should usually only manifest if the unathi feels his mistreatment is surpassing his requiring to surrender honorably. Breaking one every 5 seconds and being a huge butt isn't honorable. For a dishonorable unathi such as a raider the difficulty in containing them was intended. You are always free to keep shooting them. How misused has the mechanic been in your experience?
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