Security Re-map

[ReadThisNamePlz]

I will post a revision to see if it makes it better for everyone.

 

[Gem]

i think security is fine as-is right now.

[Cnaym]

Like this a lot over the current version. The armory placement right now is pain for both sides.

[Carver]

My primary feedback is that communal really, really needs a window to space. Otherwise the ability to escape it or break someone out without a full toolbox is drastically nerfed. On the other hand, I heavily prefer our current armoury's design as the 'extra door to enter' before the armoury proper makes it an extremely defensible hold-out spot (esp. combined with the barricades) that isn't trivial for even a full mob to break into when Security is holding it down.

As an aside: Originally with the first draft of the PR I had a ton of issues with a majority of the changes, hated the HoS Office being moved primarily - though the newer iterations address that. I can see very strong improvements in design compared to the initial draft, even if I disagree with some of them.

[ReadThisNamePlz]

I'm reworking the communal area currently. I will try my best to get some windows in, but I cannot guarantee it - simply because of how the diagonal portion is designed. Some parts have 2 diagonal objects on it. 

With that said, @Carver It is like 1 tc for C4 or 1tc for a toolbelt/box fully loaded. Changeling armblades break through reinforced walls, and so do eswords. Vampires can fly out or hulksmash their way out, and cultist swords also destroy reinforced walls. So, having one wall surrounding all of communal is much easier to break out of, rather than needing a whole voidsuit setup. 

@Dreamix I am going to connect the maintenance tunnel, and I am moving the Wardens office to the top of the hallway. I hope this will be received better. I should have it done in like, two hours. 

[ReadThisNamePlz]

So, an update. I was able to move the wardens office around, along with the cells and entrance area into communal. However, because of the design with the diagonal pieces, I do not think it is possible to make diagonal windows work. 

But, I have an idea. What if I were to add a small "observation" area for prisoners to look at the stars? A little 2x3 "jut" out of the hull, similar to what is in xenobotany - just not to the scale. I'd have to edit the roofing slightly but not by much. 

[NerdyVampire]

I wanna try this new map.. and I would love a holopad inside the brig 😆

[ReadThisNamePlz]

15 minutes ago, NerdyVampire said:

I wanna try this new map.. and I would love a holopad inside the brig 😆

Holopad will be added

 

[Rushodan]

I'm all in on this revamp of the security wing. I believe it will be a net benefit for gameplay and in my head makes more sense as to the old design.

I think the points made have been valid and Avery's responses to criticism reasonable. 

Give new brig pls

[Carver]

12 hours ago, ReadThisNamePlz said:

With that said, @Carver It is like 1 tc for C4 or 1tc for a toolbelt/box fully loaded. Changeling armblades break through reinforced walls, and so do eswords. Vampires can fly out or hulksmash their way out, and cultist swords also destroy reinforced walls. So, having one wall surrounding all of communal is much easier to break out of, rather than needing a whole voidsuit setup. 

For context, I generally assume as a traitor if I'm going into perma I won't have a PDA - and very few traitors invest in the uplink implant (since medical loves to body scan literally fucking everyone who comes to visit). I try to look at it from the context of mercs/raiders who can much, much more quickly smash a window - shove a guy into a voidsuit or air bubble and yoink them out compared to slowly disassembling a wall and gaining a higher risk of popped lungs for their guy on the last steps. I'm also a big proponent of taking the space immunity ability as a ling.

Presently, as a note, you can smash the reinforces windows and make tools from the metal rods that can get you out without needing TC - the walls require a welder which is the only thing you can't really ghetto-craft into.

Overall, hope this may be the straw that encourages someone to sprite diagonal windows! They'd be a very nice option for several parts of the ship.

[geeves]

+1 i prefer this layout also i was bribed to say this

[eddymakaveli]

I really like the remap, though I can see where the armory might get cluttered with people near the door. Love the antag escape options, since getting caught isn't like 'the end of rp'. +1

[Bear]

Would see this as a positive change. Especially for antags. +1

[Susan]

I think the changes are good, but I will echo criticism I had given you in DMs, before:

 

1 r-wall is too thin for the prison wing, it's piss easy to break through. The brig on the Aurora had one r-wall because the only way to break someone out was in publicly visible and well-traveled locations. Here, they can do it from maintenance, and one r-wall is nothing to anyone who knows what they're doing.

 

Please remove the duplicate machinery from the CSI lab. Investigators do not need 2 microscopes, 2 dna scanners, etc; they should work together, not separate, and not be able to catch the antag twice as fast. Forensic busywork taking time, even if it's only a handful of seconds, was intended to give antags breathing room - because seconds add up when needing to look thru multiple evidence pieces gathered/swabbed/dusted/etc, and having to reference computers.  There is:

 

1 extra autopsy scanner (remove)

1 extra microscope/dna machine (remove)

1 extra paperbin (do not need)

[ReadThisNamePlz]

30 minutes ago, Susan said:

I think the changes are good, but I will echo criticism I had given you in DMs, before:

 

1 r-wall is too thin for the prison wing, it's piss easy to break through. The brig on the Aurora had one r-wall because the only way to break someone out was in publicly visible and well-traveled locations. Here, they can do it from maintenance, and one r-wall is nothing to anyone who knows what they're doing.

 

Please remove the duplicate machinery from the CSI lab. Investigators do not need 2 microscopes, 2 dna scanners, etc; they should work together, not separate, and not be able to catch the antag twice as fast. Forensic busywork taking time, even if it's only a handful of seconds, was intended to give antags breathing room - because seconds add up when needing to look thru multiple evidence pieces gathered/swabbed/dusted/etc, and having to reference computers.  There is:

 

1 extra autopsy scanner (remove)

1 extra microscope/dna machine (remove)

1 extra paperbin (do not need)

I'm going to make a separate PR for the CSI lab because I have done so much in this one and need a small break from it. 

I cannot make it more than 1 r-wall at all sides bc of the maintenance tunnel to the north and the xeno bio lab

[Rabid Animal]

I've been playing with the idea of a science remap and came here to see if it would work given your changes. A few of my sketches give it more room if it needs an extra r-wall, and a few conflict with the changes. Either way, communal is really big and could probably be shrunk down if extra walls are genuinely needed - but the argument that one r-wall can't stop someone who knows what they're doing also applies to two so not sure if that actually makes a difference.

[Carver]

R-Walls are really more of a time-barrier than anything if someone has tools. It's not quite a deterrent to have extra so much as taking twice as long and thus having double the window to be caught - I personally prefer my window for escape being more literal, but that's because I enjoy breaking people out via the exterior and chucking them into air bubbles. High speed, high risk, immediate alert, but very fun!

[Kintsugi]

I don't really have many outstanding concerns, but this equipment room is absolutely too cramped. The round-start rush to get geared will be a pain in the ass when you're hemmed in on all sides by other officers, having to force your way through them to get to your locker or to get out of the equipment room. I also think the holding cells and isolation cells are too cramped as well, but that's less of an issue. The equipment room needs to be at least one tile taller.

[Gem]

3 hours ago, DanseMacabre said:

[...]

addressed in my PR.

[Confused rock]

I should've paid more attention earlier because I hate all of this, and even if the biggest parts are fixed I still don't see the point. as said above, the locker room is too small, while also being in a more public space, which is unneeded. the warden office may as well be removed because as it is they should be at the front desk (and the armory office could genuinely be mistaken for their office. Hell, remove the office and move the warden's stuff to the armory closet if you're going to change stuff anyways) I dislike the 1 wide hallway to enter the brig as handling prisoners in a 1 long tunnel would be agony. Brig still has more cells than it needs, the marooning lockers are placed in the middle of the hallway in such a way that they're obstructive and annoying, while they could easily be shifted up and to the right where the disposals chute is. The bathroom is a disgrace in so many ways. I actually got some use out of it with the larger design connected to the locker room where your clothes are, moved to where it is it's more inconvenient.

I just don't see what benefit any of these changes bring. The only positive I've heard is something about making the brig easier to escape, but it still doesn't seem much easier, and it is incredibly rare for people to actually be put in extended confinement, such as it is, let alone be put in extended in a state where:
1.They are in fit health/equipped to escape
2.They want to escape
3.There is enough time in the round for them to escape
4.The round would be improved by them escaping

It wasn't worth shuffling around the lower brig so much just for that. You could fix most of this but I think this should've been a testmerge, and as annoying as reverting map changes is I still think that should be done. We haven't gotten much out of the brig changes beyond a headache.

Mapdiffbot2 isn't working for me so I can't see what gem did with the bathroom but for the love of god put a LOCK on the toilet.

[ReadThisNamePlz]

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I should've paid more attention earlier because I hate all of this.

Okay, I am pretty open to feedback but when it is presented in this manner it is extremely hard for me to take any of it seriously. 

Gem's update will fix majority of your issues with this. And if it doesn't, I am going to be removing the second isolation cell and making the wardens office larger, along with the communal entryway. The bathroom will also be addressed, probably sometime next week after Gem's update is merged. 

[Dreamix]

I made pics of Gem's changes, since the bot that makes pics of mapping changes is dead currently: https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/15925#issuecomment-1452132140

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Personally, I still do not like it. My concerns from the first page are still there, and they cannot be just fixed by some reshuffling or expanding a room by a few tiles, without changing the layout completely again (or going back to previous brig layout, which I think was perfectly fine).

The warden's office is super tiny and might as well not exist. Before, it was near the entrance, overlooking everything that is going on, seeing people come in and out the lobby, in the perfect spot to be the master of the brig, even being able to see into both processing rooms.

The locker room has no reason to be this close to the entrance, being used only at round start or by late-joining sec officers. It's also still smaller than it were before.

The processing rooms now are tiny, and further away from the entrance. They are the most used rooms in the brig I would imagine, so they should be near the entrance, and not far away and around the corner. Before, they were close to the entrance, had a waiting area outside, and the warden could look into both of the processing rooms from the warden's office.

The cells themselves are now tinier and more awkward. I'm sure most prisoners do not even get to see the communal brig, and that's where they spend their time.

I would expect prisoners to get even less engagement than before, both in the communal brig and in cells. Before, prisoners were out near the entrance, and could see officers passing by to the equipment room or the armory. Now a prisoner or the warden could go SSD, and no one would notice cause it's out of the way, as there's no reason to go there (except to check up on the prisoner/warden).

The armory has no reason to be this close to the entrance, as it takes up so much space in the core area of the brig, that could be better used.

This really should have been a test merge.

[ReadThisNamePlz]

As I said above, @Dreamix Gem's changes are welcome and they fix a lot of the issues. 

You mention the size of the equipment room being smaller still. That's the point because the last one had a lot of "dead space". Officers are also rarely ever in the equipment/locker room. 

 

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The warden's office is super tiny and might as well not exist.

I agree and this will be fixed after Gem's PR is merged so I do not accidentally cause a merge conflict. I have plans to correct the size, as you can see above. 

 

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Before, it was near the entrance, overlooking everything that is going on, seeing people come in and out the lobby, in the perfect spot to be the master of the brig, even being able to see into both processing rooms.

This is true, it was closer to the entrance, which put the Armory off, tucked away in an annoying area, making it annoying to access. It was also designed poorly. 

The new communal allows for Antagonists to have methods of escape or methods of 'antaggery' without being under a constant eye from Security or the Warden. 

 

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The cells themselves are now tinier and more awkward. I'm sure most prisoners do not even get to see the communal brig, and that's where they spend their time.

I designed the cells to be smaller to encourage the use of communal over keeping them inside of a 2x2 box. If this becomes an issue, I will rearrange it again.  

 

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The armory has no reason to be this close to the entrance, as it takes up so much space in the core area of the brig, that could be better used.

Why not? What is the reason that the Armory cannot be close to the entrance? The Head of Securities office has overlooked the Armory for almost as long as Aurora has been around (At least for the last 5 years). Why can't it be closer to the entrance and centered in the brig? It contains some of the more valuable items on the ship and needs to be easily accessed by the staff. 

Edited March 2, 2023 by ReadThisNamePlz

[Dreamix]

38 minutes ago, ReadThisNamePlz said:

Why not? What is the reason that the Armory cannot be close to the entrance? The Head of Securities office has overlooked the Armory for almost as long as Aurora has been around (At least for the last 5 years). Why can't it be closer to the entrance and centered in the brig? It contains some of the more valuable items on the ship and needs to be easily accessed by the staff. 

Why not? Because other things need to be closer to the entrance. Things that with your remap are further away. Unfortunately, we can't have everything be at the entrance, and something needs to be further away.

The brig should be optimized around the canonically most common and everyday situations - crew getting unruly and needing a fine and/or a short break to calm down in the cells. Previous brig was optimized for exactly that, with the processing rooms and the prisoner cells being right at the entrance.

We are not getting raided by mercenaries every day, to necessitate the officers being always on the ready and within arms reach of weapons. The new brig is optimized for this instead. Especially since security tends to crowd at the lobby or just outside, this will probably make for crazy fast response times, to arm up and go kill, which is not desirable.

 

I do not care about how it was on Aurora. It's irrelevant. And even if it is relevant, looking at the mapping of Aurora, it certainly should not be taken as an example of great mapping, with its huuuuuge rooms and looooong hallways.

[CampinKiller]

The armory has weapons lockers inside one another, namely the laser rifle and SMG/pistol lockers exist on the same tile