Make the Machinist part of Engineering

[Carver]

Per the title,

Given their present location, their expertise (primarily maintenance of hardware) and that Heph/Zavod as corps fit the role decidedly more than Heph/Orion. It feels only suitable that they should be a part of Engineering to give the department a little more variety. That, and as it were, the Machinist is fairly divorced from Operations in location and goals - what they gain from the department is no more than Science or anyone else gains, a few things from the warehouse (mismatched exosuits, random limbs) and the ship’s shared desire for mining materials (Engineering and Science primarily).

I don’t have much more to add. This idea came to me between the recent workshop remap, and pondering that the implementation of the new XO may hold the possibility of the service department seeing oversight by the OM in the future.

Edit: I do have one more thing to add, that's also a notable plus: This puts AI/Synthetic-related stuff solely back into the realm of Engineering and Science, as it used to be.

Edited April 11 by Carver
AIs

[rrrrrr]

I was a little confused when I saw that the machinist was a part of operations. (I mean, that, and that the role isn't called 'roboticist' anymore...) There's nothing, as far as I can tell, that really ties the role to operations in any specific way... and this mostly shows in the workshop's location. The only thing that comes to mind is their need for materials from the shaft miners and the fact that having ops radio access makes this easier to coordinate. It'd be like if the janitor's closet were right next to security, making the janitor part of that department. The workshop's pretty far from the warehouse, the hangar bay, etc. This would be a good change, especially now that the workshop's been moved. Hopefully with the AI core re-map, science can get more space, too.

[ReadThisNamePlz]

I am in favor of this, and will happily remap it again to make it fit the engineering look (decals). 

[Nagito Komaeda]

I dislike it personally, difficult to explain why. My ideal Machinist would be split between an Ops/Eng Machinist and a Med/Sci Machinist (or maybe Ops/Eng/Sci and Ops/Med/Sci). Giving them some sort of specialisation while also putting them in contact with the department that should matter to them. But as it stands, kind of against it even if I can't explain my reasoning well. Probably something to do with the Engineering megacorps - if Orion was in there I'd be golden, even though I think the Machinist would benefit being from Ops.

 

 

Edited April 11 by Nagito Komaeda
Actually tried to explain my reasoning lmao.

[greenjoe]

I wonder if this could be combined with the idea that was going around of adding Orion Express to Engineering
that would allow any current machinists to stay in the corp they are in as a bonus.

[hazelmouse]

I don't honestly think engineering has much more to do with the machinists than does operations. Engineering runs the engines, configures power, and repairs the ship. The workshop repairs synthetics and prosthetics and fabricates equipment and toys for the crew to use. I don't see much overlap here, and I have difficulty picturing exactly what either either side would gain from the arrangement.

There's also the concern of what we allow machinists to do if we made this change. Can they start the engines? Can they work with atmospherics equipment? Can they start the shields? If they can't, why are they in the engineering department in the first place?

Right now, machinist gains from being in operations from being able to more easily coordinate for their materials with miners and hangar technicians, and they have in common the role of providing gear to the crew. What do they gain from being in engineering, and what role do they have in common with the rest of engineering?

[GeneralCamo]

To be honest, I would give them the ability to work on AI. That would give them a reason to exist, and the machinists basically do this anyway with their work on stationbounds.

[Carver]

7 hours ago, hazelmouse said:

I don't honestly think engineering has much more to do with the machinists than does operations. Engineering runs the engines, configures power, and repairs the ship. The workshop repairs synthetics and prosthetics and fabricates equipment and toys for the crew to use. I don't see much overlap here, and I have difficulty picturing exactly what either either side would gain from the arrangement.

There's also the concern of what we allow machinists to do if we made this change. Can they start the engines? Can they work with atmospherics equipment? Can they start the shields? If they can't, why are they in the engineering department in the first place?

Right now, machinist gains from being in operations from being able to more easily coordinate for their materials with miners and hangar technicians, and they have in common the role of providing gear to the crew. What do they gain from being in engineering, and what role do they have in common with the rest of engineering?

1 & 3: Maintenance of equipment (synthetics, hardsuits, exosuits), major use of tools, etc. The only thing tangentially related to Operations is that they build things people use - which curiously, Science does more than Operations does anyways (Ops has a lathe and that's it) and Engineering also does to a degree with similar requirements for materials and tools to do so. We could return them to Science but Engineering felt more thematically appropriate in regard to the corporation options.

As for coordination, would they lose ops radio access? Sure. But Science and Engineering both highly value the same materials and don't have ops radio access, so they'd simply go through the same 'ask over common and probably expect deliveries from miners even if you don't ask'.

2: No, but I wouldn't start the engine as an atmos tech. No, but I wouldn't mess with atmospherics as an engineer. Does every Medical role do chemistry when a chemist is missing? Does every Operations role do mining when a miner is missing? Engineering doesn't mean 'I do everything in the department' or we wouldn't have a distinction between atmospherics technicians as there currently is.
 

As for uniforms I would feel more than fine respriting the Orion machinist uniforms to Zavod machinist uniforms. I'd keep the original Orion uniforms sitting around in the code in-case Orion is added to engineering. Though personally I don't really see how Orion makes sense in the role, if only because Orion is the delivery+doordash corp in it's present flavour, whereas Zavodskoi akin to Hephaestus is a major producer of heavy machinery.

 

As an aside, while looking at the uniform sprites I noticed something very funny that would probably be a better potential third Engineering corp than Orion.

Spoiler

 

Edited April 12 by Carver

[QuestioningMark]

I'm inclined to agree with this. Simply because machinists are people who work on the ships hard systems, it's automatic maintenance units like borgs and IPCs.

If we take the (limited) corporate view that most machines, even if they think, are equipment it makes sense they see them as technical maintenance crew like engineers and lump them together.

Any hey, engineering can in theory make things for the mech. Just don't give them access to the engineering locker room because they'll steal all the steel.

Edited April 12 by QuestioningMark

[ben10083]

9 hours ago, GeneralCamo said:

To be honest, I would give them the ability to work on AI. That would give them a reason to exist, and the machinists basically do this anyway with their work on stationbounds.

Already a thing. They and the RD are listed as the two roles that know AI stuff

[Carver]

25 minutes ago, ben10083 said:

Already a thing. They and the RD are listed as the two roles that know AI stuff

Wonderful, then they’d be able to readily assist the CE in similar matters as they used to - instead of the weird current state where an OM can potentially justify being able to help with the AI.

[Bejewledpot]

I'm not really for this. This feels like when Robotics became Machinists but again.

Machinists are in the Operations lump because they're job is to provide equipment and fix robots. The protolathe as a machine exists to produce things for the crew. This is why I think they do belong in operations, and I believe its why it got moved to operations years ago. The hanger technicians provide better gear for the crew via warehouse goods and ordering items, the machinist provides better gear by manufacturing it on site. Engineering doesn't make things, they build things and maintain the ship.
Yes, the machinists office is pretty far from operations. But this is a roleplay concession from what I remember. Having robotics be right there in the central ring makes it easier to get care, get items, and interact with events such as borgings. Once upon a time, where the teleporter and charging room is, is where the machinist shop used to be. It absolutely felt more like operations because of its proximity.
 

On 10/04/2024 at 20:08, Carver said:

Machinist is fairly divorced from Operations in location and goals... [later comment] ...The only thing tangentially related to Operations is that they build things people use - which curiously, Science does more than Operations does anyways (Ops has a lathe and that's it)...

I don't believe this is true. Operations as a department is about providing the services and items by which the ship needs to function. As I said above, both hanger techs and machinists provide better items through various means. Ops has more than a lathe in it, as the machinist shop is apart of ops. Thus, they have the circuit printer and protolathe.
In department interactions are very present, but the volume of them depends entirely on the skill and knowledge of both the other two roles, and the machinist. The machinist provides upgraded parts for various machines in operations. The machinist works on exosuits, and operations is the only department with access to exosuits at round start. The machinist works with hardsuits, and while mining doesn't have them at round start, hardsuits are incredibly common for them to wear.
Science as a department isn't normally building things for people anymore. This was basic expectation on the Aurora, but these days R&D kinda takes a back seat to manufacturing. Though, I'm not pretending that they don't. They make all kinds of things all the time. I think the more accurate difference between the two would be that science makes the more science-y upgraded tools like advanced mops and light replacers, the very rare bag of holding, bluespace beakers, so on. Where the machinists make welders, force gloves, rapid fabrication devices.

 

3 hours ago, Carver said:

No, but I wouldn't start the engine as an atmos tech. No, but I wouldn't mess with atmospherics as an engineer.

Except you do, to a degree. Common practice right now is that engineers can set cold thrust if taught, and atmos techs can set the supermatter, but not the INDRA. Engineers cant make hot thrust, or fiddle with the pipes much. And likewise, atmos cant set RCON or the shields. There is a very clear overlap between the two jobs thats expected. How is the machinist supposed to factor into this? Sure, both are engineers, but they're from dramatically different disciplines.


In my opinion, if there's any department that machinists would fit in any better, its medical. They work on prosthetics and organs, they provide what could be considered healthcare to positronic crew.
But ultimately, machinists just dont really fit anywhere. As a job, they do a little bit from three different departments. They do operations work, they do R&D work, and they do engineering related work via upgrading ship systems via the rapid parts exchanger. Operations is where they landed because of the ease of communication in department that it gives, along with not being an actually science job, just a high tech job. Over their place in science.

While the sprites do go hard, I don't think putting them in engineering fixes anything. We're just playing a multi year game of hot potato with the weird job.

Edited April 12 by Bejewledpot

[Carver]

4 minutes ago, Bejewledpot said:

I don't believe this is true. Operations as a department is about providing the services and items by which the ship needs to function. As I said above, both hanger techs and machinists provide better items through various means. Ops has more than a lathe in it, as the machinist shop is apart of ops. Thus, they have the circuit printer and protolathe.
In department interactions are very present, but the volume of them depends entirely on the skill and knowledge of both the other two roles, and the machinist. The machinist provides upgraded parts for various machines in operations. The machinist works on exosuits, and operations is the only department with access to exosuits at round start. The machinist works with hardsuits, and while mining doesn't have them at round start, hardsuits are incredibly common for them to wear.
Science as a department isn't normally building things for people anymore. This was basic expectation on the Aurora, but these days R&D kinda takes a back seat to manufacturing. Though, I'm not pretending that they don't. They make all kinds of things all the time. I think the more accurate difference between the two would be that science makes the more science-y upgraded tools like advanced mops and light replacers, the very rare bag of holding, bluespace beakers, so on. Where the machinists make welders, force gloves, rapid fabrication devices.

Notably, the circuit printer and protolathe are vestiges of the Machinist being a part of the science department. Machinist going to Engineering would logically put Engineering as 'the department you go to for your machines to be upgraded'. Operations having exosuits is by virtue of the RNG of the warehouse, does Operations having surgical equipment and weaponry in the warehouse also mean that they should have medical and security roles within the department - clearly not, it is merely more warehouse equipment to be delivered somewhere else. Nearly every department on the ship (barring service/civ for obvious reasons) employs hardsuits and can make use of them; Engineering most prominently, followed by Medical (sorry sec the FR hardsuits are more immediately useful), followed by Security and very distantly followed by Science and Mining (the latter of whom will usually be done working by the time they can get a hardsuit).

Science has taken a backseat because nobody asks for things to begin with. Yet despite this, their bespoke weapons crafting is fairly reminiscent of the Machinist's bespoke exosuit creation that had it's origins in the Machinist's prior history within other departments. The history of Robotics in SS13 is roughly as follows: It began in medical, it solely built borgs and borged people. It was then in Engineering, and it became capable of building exosuits. It was then in Science (Med-Sci initially) where it began to produce more niche articles such as replacement organs and would help the RD and CE with the AI. Not longer after it was effectively fully moved to Science, it began to produce hardsuits.

14 minutes ago, Bejewledpot said:

Except you do, to a degree. Common practice right now is that engineers can set cold thrust if taught, and atmos techs can set the supermatter, but not the INDRA. Engineers cant make hot thrust, or fiddle with the pipes much. And likewise, atmos cant set RCON or the shields. There is a very clear overlap between the two jobs thats expected. How is the machinist supposed to factor into this? Sure, both are engineers, but they're from dramatically different disciplines.

I'm going to be quite forthright, if someone asks me to perform a duty outside of my distinct role that is explicitly designed for another role (Engines for Engineering, Thrusters for Atmos) I will not do it. Common practice does not always mean good practice, it was once common practice to fully set up department voidsuits and bring them to said departments. It was once common practice for Detectives to perform arrests. It was once common practice for CMOs to do-it-all within Medical. I can go on with further examples if necessary. What would I expect Machinists in Engineering to do that rather suits the department? More than likely; the construction and upgrading of machines/consoles, supplying other Engineers with circuit boards when they need them, maintenance of synthetics and the AI, repairing the odd damaged hardsuit and exosuit. Effectively the things they currently or potentially could do that fall under the realm of power tools, ship equipment and specialist maintenance.

Engineering is the department of maintaining ship equipment, and that's the ultimate role of the Machinist. It's production capabilities are holdovers from Science, never from Operations. As a Machinist, I have zero reason to communicate with Operations in any capacity further than what Scientists and Engineers already do: Asking for mats, fulfilling the odd bounty and getting an initial delivery from the warehouse.

[Bejewledpot]

15 hours ago, Carver said:

Operations having exosuits is by virtue of the RNG of the warehouse

This is not what I was talking about. The exosuits on round start are the two used for loading the guns.

[NerdyVampire]

Engineering is better than operations for machinists.

Science is better than engineering for machinists.

I prefer they return to science where they came from. Everything about them scream innovation, high-tech devices, synthetic programming and research. Engineering does not have responsibilities in these area. Make them part of research, allow them to set up tech servers and let's see the reunion we need.

But if not research, then engineering yes. Just for newness' sake.

[Boggle08]

I’m kind of happy where they’re at. Operations supplies stuff, machinists supply fancy stuff. I would go as far as to say the machinist has potential to become the primary supplier of protolathe/RPED related requests, while the scientist becomes the tertiary supplier, should the latter grow beyond what it currently is.

[TeslaBeam]

I've given this a lot of thought over the past couple of days. To put it bluntly, speaking as someone who almost exclusively plays machinist (and, perhaps, far too much of it), this is a difficult, yet important, problem to approach. I think this sentence sums it up best:

On 11/04/2024 at 22:01, Bejewledpot said:

But ultimately, machinists just dont really fit anywhere.

This is really the essence of it. Machinists, both thematically and mechanically, are a patchwork of several different departments. You have the toolbelt and machine building capability of an engineer. You have the lathe and circuit production of a scientist. You have the prosthetic maintenance and pseudo-surgery mechanics that feel right at home in Medical. Of course, you have your own unique mechanics in the form of the mech fabricators, exosuit and hardsuit maintenance, and all of that good stuff.

So, where does that leave the machinist? Despite the overlaps in flavor and mechanics, it really doesn't feel at home anywhere to me. I tend to think of whether a job belongs in a department by two metrics:
   1. Does the job mesh thematically with the rest of the department?
   2. Does the job need to communicate with the rest of the department over their communications channel? Will their addition to said channel benefit both the job itself and the rest of the department?
If we can satisfy both of these, that is obviously ideal. Failing that, we should strive to satisfy one without flagrantly violating the other.

Operations, as it is, feels like a strange compromise. A machinist really has little to do with the rest of Operations, especially mechanically. Yes, they fulfill bounties, but so does every department. Yes, they receive metals and glass from miners, but so does Engineering and Research, with the latter using essentially the exact same materials. While they are technically part of the supply line in the sense that they produce equipment for the crew to use, it really isn't much different from asking the pharmacist to produce a prescription, or perhaps more aptly, a scientist to produce an experimental welder. On the comms front, there's not much reason to be on the Operations channel. In my experience, most work-related exchanges are brief and largely superfluous, often the odd "hey, I did that bounty," or, "thanks for the stuff, miners," with maybe the occasional, "can you fulfill this order for me?" all of which can be handled over the common channel as with every other department.

We see a lot of overlap with Research, so I'll ramble about that next. Once again, I feel as though machinist falls short of both of the aforementioned conditions. Flavor-wise, a machinist is not a researcher. You are not expected to discover anything new, or study a cutting-edge field. Any experimental tech you end up producing is piggy-backed off of RnD. There's not much reason to communicate with Research at all as a machinist, beyond pestering the scientists/RD to finish RnD, and if you really want to do that, you can just go bang on their window across the hall. They don't need anything from you, they can produce most things you can already.

With that out of the way, I'll stop beating around the bush and get to the initial suggestion: Engineering. While it is true that the machinist fits in a little better thematically here, in the sense that they also work on heavy machinery, have access to a toolbelt and full suite of tools, and carry the ever-coveted insulated gloves, I can't help but feel they'd feel like an outsider. Engineers and atmos techs work on the Horizon's integral systems. They keep the lights on, the air in, and the structure intact. Their domain is the vital operations of the ship, and machinist doesn't fit into that in a satisfying way. I get this feeling that, were machinists added to Engineering, they'd feel sort of like an awkward little sibling hanging out with the big kids' group. Perhaps this fear is unfounded, or that feeling would fade away with time, I'm really not sure. This is probably my preferred choice for where machinists would go, all things considered.

I think it's fair to touch on Medical, even though I strongly disagree with placing them here for one big reason I'll get into momentarily. On paper, a machinist fits in pretty well, though not perfectly. They can perform minor surgeries, like borging and internal/external prosthetic repair. They're essentially a surgeon for IPCs as it stands. They can produce prosthetics when needed, all good stuff. The reason I oppose this placement is the fact that Medical already has a delicate flow chart regarding their roles, and I feel as though too many machinists would try to force their way into that, harming efficiency in what is certainly the department that values efficiency the most. Surgeons can already repair prosthetic organs, and I can picture a situation where a machinist is hanging around the GTR, trying to follow patients with prosthetics around and generally getting in the way. Maybe a player more experienced with Medical can tell me that it isn't that big of a deal, but that's my gut feeling.

TLDR; I dunno, maybe Engineering.


 

Edited April 13 by TeslaBeam
Formatting

[Rabid Animal]

I don't feel particularly strongly about this either way, but I've seen the argument come up a few times that the engineers repair / maintain ship systems and that's why machinist doesn't fit there. A counterpoint to bring up is that the AI, it's borgs, and every company owned IPC are part of the ships systems. Sure that's not all they do, but you could look at it from a corporate standpoint and see how that might be the reason they exist in the first place.

[wowzewow]

I'll just cut to the chase here. Way back when, Med/Sci and Com/Sec were one large department. Machinists, formerly Roboticists, landed solely in this very same department.

Same with Virology and Genetics/Cloning. It's why they got removed. They didn't belong in Medical or in the game entirely because they were a neccessity Medical Job while playing as an optional Science Job.

Machinist should be put back in Science. Like a lot of Science jobs, if there simply aren't any IPCs nor Borgs on board, then they are an optional Science Job. If there are, they are upgraded to being a necessity Medical Job. Even so, Nanopaste basically renders a lot of their stuff moot.

They are only in Operations solely for the wishes of Corporate Lore - which personally, is the most undeveloped, and probably will be for the forseeable future in favor of Shiny New Planets.

 

But basically, they should be returned to Science, and integrated like how Bay does it - the Machinist's surgery room is also connected to medical, so Medical can use it temporarily if all other ORs are full.

Note that the Machinist isn't responsible for any medical stuff. They are just physically connected.

Edited April 13 by wowzewow

[Sneakyranger]

I play a lot of engineering. I'm just one guy. I don't want to see this change go through, so I'll voice my thoughts as they are to be taken or left by anyone who may consider implementing this in practice.

 

Machinists should remain in ops.

What does every order a chief medical officer give to their department ultimately further? The health of the crew.

What does every order a head of security give to to their department ultimately further? The maintenance of order and adherence to SOP.

What does every order an operations manager give to their department ultimately further? The provision of supplies to the ship.

Were machinists added to engineering, the chief engineer's orders would also concern the provision of supplies to the ship or the health of the synthetic crew (mostly, the former) instead of the maintenance of ship infrastructure.

 

It would also imply that a chief engineer could have specialized as a machinist before their current position, which is weird.

 

Machinists are a misfit job, but the closest places they have to home are research or ops. Research can build their own machines too, and ops distributes supplies. Instead of entirely being out of place, putting them in one of these two only gives them a little bit of non-overlap compared to total.

 

On 12/04/2024 at 00:35, Carver said:

As a Machinist, I have zero reason to communicate with Operations in any capacity further than what Scientists and Engineers already do: Asking for mats, fulfilling the odd bounty and getting an initial delivery from the warehouse.

You will have zero reason to communicate with the rest of your department in engineering, as well. I cannot envision nor have I experienced a single time that an engineer would need to call a machinist for anything that should be on a department channel.

 

On 10/04/2024 at 22:08, Carver said:

Edit: I do have one more thing to add, that's also a notable plus: This puts AI/Synthetic-related stuff solely back into the realm of Engineering and Science, as it used to be.

Engineering has enough disparate fields, imo; dealing with synths should stay strictly in the realm of research and the misfit job.

[Carver]

4 hours ago, Sneakyranger said:

You will have zero reason to communicate with the rest of your department in engineering, as well. I cannot envision nor have I experienced a single time that an engineer would need to call a machinist for anything that should be on a department channel.

With such a change, it would be simple; the upgrading and repair of various machines that fall outside the Engineer's standard fare of the power network, the production of replacement circuit boards, maintaining the hardware portion of the AI.

4 hours ago, Sneakyranger said:

Engineering has enough disparate fields, imo; dealing with synths should stay strictly in the realm of research and the misfit job.

Engineering has two fields. If it should be within the realm of a singular department, then Machinist should go to Research or become an Eng-Sci role if we dare touch upon cross-department roles again. The primary reasons I suggest Engineering over Research involve the Corporations (Heph/Zavod are a better fit than any other department) in tandem with their role dealing with heavy machinery and maintenance.

4 hours ago, Sneakyranger said:

What does every order a chief medical officer give to their department ultimately further? The health of the crew.

What does every order a head of security give to to their department ultimately further? The maintenance of order and adherence to SOP.

What does every order an operations manager give to their department ultimately further? The provision of supplies to the ship.

Were machinists added to engineering, the chief engineer's orders would also concern the provision of supplies to the ship or the health of the synthetic crew (mostly, the former) instead of the maintenance of ship infrastructure.

 

It would also imply that a chief engineer could have specialized as a machinist before their current position, which is weird.

 

Machinists are a misfit job, but the closest places they have to home are research or ops. Research can build their own machines too, and ops distributes supplies. Instead of entirely being out of place, putting them in one of these two only gives them a little bit of non-overlap compared to total.

To address this, Operations remains one of the worst departments thematically for Machinist - contested only by Security and Service, of which the only thing it bears over them is the mild convenience of requesting materials in a brown text colour instead of a green one. If we go by what the Machinists produce, they would fit Science (limbs, hardsuits) or Engineering (machine upgrades, synthetics, exosuits) significantly better. Further, the CE would not need to delicately oversee this matter, just as the RD or XO doesn't need to micromanage over half of their respective subordinates (and just as the OM doesn't actually need to even speak to the Machinist once outside of bounties, which are mentioned to every department regardless).

What does the CE gain? Further oversight over, precisely as you said, maintenance of the ship's infrastructure in the form of synthetics and exosuits. I can see a mild issue with a CE going 'I specialized in being a Machinist', but that issue would be relatively trivially resolved by making it necessary for CEs to have knowledge of at least one engine (just as the HoS has to be physically capable of making arrests/responding in an emergency, even if they were previously an Investigator or Warden; the CMO has to be capable of medical treatment even if they were previously a Psychiatrist; the XO has to be capable of bridge duties even if they previously worked in Service). What does it marvelously prevent, on the other hand? OMs claiming to have any influence over the AI despite it being wildly out of the boundaries of their department's oversight.

Edited April 14 by Carver
Typo

[Captain Gecko]

I have no ideas why the machinist/roboticist would be part of Engineering.

As far as I'm concerned they should've stayed in science, I mean they use the same materials, rely on the same research, are right next to science, and even it even makes sense lorewise, since exosuits and robots are complicated machines, and usually employ advanced/experimental technology on the Horizon since it's linked to RnD's servers.
I'll accept that YOU COULD argue to have the machinist in operations, since operation does use plenty of exosuits, whether it is to move cargo and ammo around or to mine on some occasions and they deliver other more general machines like cleanbots and the likes.., but engineering? I seen no point in this.

Exosuits don't build nor can they perform any engineering tasks, there are no engineering bots (unless you count floorbots? But no one uses them, assuming they still exist), engineers are trained to start up and maintain advanced technology like reactors, generally not build them by themselves (generally they would ask science for boards and the likes when it is not already put in their storage), and engineering might be the only department next to Service that I've NEVER seen use an exosuit in all my time playing... Not that I say that it didn't happen, but it is awfully rarer than, say, operations, security or medical.

 

And yes, while I'm at it, I blame science being the least played department since the Horizon on the roboticist being moved to operations.

Edited April 17 by Captain Gecko

[Carver]

5 hours ago, Captain Gecko said:

As far as I'm concerned they should've stayed in science, I mean they use the same materials, rely on the same research, are right next to science, and even it even makes sense lorewise, since exosuits and robots are complicated machines, and usually employ advanced/experimental technology on the Horizon since it's linked to RnD's servers.
I'll accept that YOU COULD argue to have the machinist in operations, since operation does use plenty of exosuits, whether it is to move cargo and ammo around or to mine on some occasions and they deliver other more general machines like cleanbots and the likes.., but engineering? I seen no point in this.

I’d be fine with them in science, but as I’ve explained somewhere in the realm of four times now if you care enough to scroll up, no they don’t really fit operations at all compared to engineering. Exosuits are not unique to Operations, and production and delivery of those devices was added an era when the role was in Engineering funnily enough.

5 hours ago, Captain Gecko said:

Exosuits don't build nor can they perform any engineering tasks,

*snipped the rest scroll up to my previous posts to read answers*

Oh and I believe the clamp can pick up canisters. I haven’t tested if it can pick up pumps and scrubbers, depending on their age the answer is ‘maybe’ but clamps generally haven’t been touched in a very very long time.

[Dreamix]

I think machinists fit perfectly where they are, operations.

 

Machinists don't do science or research, so they don't fit in research dept at all. They only work with already existing and mass produced designs, and don't invent or research new ones.

Machinists also don't fix or improve or maintain the ship's existing systems like engineering, so they don't fit there either. 

 

What machinists mainly do, is supply other departments with gear, exosuits, hardsuits, and the like, as well as maintain borgs, AI, and IPCs. If anything it would be better as a cross-dept job of med-ops, but just ops is fine enough since we don't do cross-dept jobs.

[Carver]

1 hour ago, Dreamix said:

I think machinists fit perfectly where they are, operations.

 

Machinists don't do science or research, so they don't fit in research dept at all. They only work with already existing and mass produced designs, and don't invent or research new ones.

Machinists also don't fix or improve or maintain the ship's existing systems like engineering, so they don't fit there either. 

 

What machinists mainly do, is supply other departments with gear, exosuits, hardsuits, and the like, as well as maintain borgs, AI, and IPCs. If anything it would be better as a cross-dept job of med-ops, but just ops is fine enough since we don't do cross-dept jobs.

For perhaps the sixth time; Scientists produce bespoke equipment like protoguns, circuitry and similar. As do Machinists with hardsuits and exosuits. Machinists do fix, improve and maintain ship systems: As synthetics (especially the AI) are ship systems and equipment, and exosuits as well.

Every role they currently have in Ops came when they were in another department. Ops hasn’t introduced anything new to them, nor are they near ops, nor do they ever need to speak with the OM outside of bounties (which everyone gets faxed anyways). When the AI is having issues they’ll speak with the RD or CE.