Skills System Feedback Thread

[hellfirejag]

Post your feedback for the testmerge of skills here.

[greenjoe]

Couple of ideas for education additions

some kinda pilot education that gives you piloting skill + some others? Some low level engineering stuff for basic stuff in the shuttles a pilot would be expected to do?

Corpo trained sec officer education. Similar to police academy but some stuff a bit different?

Stuff can also be a bit rough for some heads like OM. One with the finance background for example uses up ALL of their occupational points on piloting.

Edited 10 hours ago by greenjoe

[ASmallCuteCat]

Right off the top of my head - I feel like cutting people out of hardsuits shouldn't require Robotics, otherwise that means anyone in Medical will need to take Robotics just in case someone gets trapped in a hardsuit.

Are we supposed to get 8 Everyday skills, 8 Occupational skills, and 4 Combat skills? I was struggling to find skills to put those points into that made sense for my surgeon, and now he's somehow wound up with an exosuit license xD

[Stradfarian]

Please make cutting people out of hardsuits a surgery skill, i dont think there should be a chance that no one is capable of doing that in a full medbay.

[Melariara]

Were the various species teams consulted about how their species affects their education and the like? I can already see the various subspecies of Tajara being affected, not to mention IPC datapacks and the intense education that skrell have, as well as the bloodsucking/knowledge gaining of dionae.

[CatsinHD]

Right now the point distribution feels off. For example:

Quote

 

Operations managers must know how to fly. They additionally only require experience. No degree, just experience. Therefore we can assume that they became OM from an HT or Roboticist (such as one of my chars). Let's say HT. This is perfectly reasonable.

In order to be a HT, you need to be a trained exosuit pilot. That is 4 points. To be OM, you need to be a licensed shuttle pilot. That is 6. Occupational skills get 8 points to spend, meaning you cannot, as an OM, be trained in exosuits and piloting at the same time. This is problematic- indeed it means you either lost your edge with exosuit piloting or were a roboticist. Except roboticists should also, ideally, also be trained in exosuits. So we get back to the same issue.

 

If I were to sum it up. It feels like I either have too many points to spend or not enough. 8 points for occupational either covers your entire job or barely gets you the skills you need. In many cases, it feels like you can cover your primary skill, but supporting skills you'd expect out of a role get unnecessarily restricted or sidelined because your job has other requirements. See surgeons needing robotics to cut open hardsuits, which is such a fundamental procedure even paramedics are permitted it on the surgery table.

This may be the intent, but to echo a friend "Like essentially the root of my problem is that it feels restrictive rather than permissive... You're taking gameplay opportunity out of a sever that already is noted to have issues with gameplay engagement..." 

Either this requires a shift in how skills affect gameplay (which is impossible in some cases) or leads us to something like being able to transfer skills from every-day or combat. I'm not totally sure on an answer for that. However I can agree that, ftmp, it feels like many roles are very stretched thin in terms of skills and what they are expected to perform. That might also be a server culture shift, idk.

Edited 9 hours ago by CatsinHD

[CatsinHD]

4 minutes ago, Melariara said:

Were the various species teams consulted about how their species affects their education and the like? I can already see the various subspecies of Tajara being affected, not to mention IPC datapacks and the intense education that skrell have, as well as the bloodsucking/knowledge gaining of dionae.

AFAIK no. The Tajara team was not at least. If I missed the consultation then lmk and we can come back around to it.

[Roostercat]

I've noticed that it doesn't seem like surgeons have the points required to fix mechanical organs. the second tier of robotics doesn't allow it and damaged augments/organs are pretty common in the department, and the wiki chart states Surgeons are able to do so. It means that if there isn't a machinist available (there usually isn't) then people just have to live with super damaged augments. 

[GeneralCamo]

34 minutes ago, Melariara said:

Were the various species teams consulted about how their species affects their education and the like?

This was brought up during development, specifically in regards to skrell's multiple degrees. It was decided to push back an expansion of education to handle this until the skills were fully implemented, lest the PR take forever with potential critical bugs or issues with skills themselves still lingering.

Edited 9 hours ago by GeneralCamo

[NewOriginalSchwann]

There is no option for security-related skills for any character under 25, meaning you cannot* play as a security character under 25.

 

*You can at the cost of being unfamiliar in every combat skill aside from firearms, which is not ideal.

Edited 8 hours ago by NewOriginalSchwann

[Roostercat]

I think skills might have accidentally borked necrotic surgery. When trying to remove necrotic tissue you can either amputate the entire organ or stab them directly in the head. No in between. 

[Melariara]

2 minutes ago, Roostercat said:

I think skills might have accidentally borked necrotic surgery. When trying to remove necrotic tissue you can either amputate the entire organ or stab them directly in the head. No in between. 

That might be better posted on github.

48 minutes ago, GeneralCamo said:

This was brought up during development, specifically in regards to skrell's multiple degrees. It was decided to push back an expansion of education to handle this until the skills were fully implemented, lest the PR take forever with potential critical bugs or issues with skills themselves still lingering.

Sure. Thank you very much.

[Loorey]

Hello!

I've heard (not tried myself) that CPR is now actually locked behind medical skill. I think it's very reasonable to expect everyone aboard a spaceship like the Horizon to know basic first aid, and with that comes CPR. Not only because it is really mechanically frustrating not to be able to do something as basic as CPR but also because of straight up realism, you'd expect every crewmember to at least be able to apply a bandage to themselves or a co-worker and do something as basic as CPR. 

[maxspells]

7 hours ago, Loorey said:

Hello!

I've heard (not tried myself) that CPR is now actually locked behind medical skill. I think it's very reasonable to expect everyone aboard a spaceship like the Horizon to know basic first aid, and with that comes CPR. Not only because it is really mechanically frustrating not to be able to do something as basic as CPR but also because of straight up realism, you'd expect every crewmember to at least be able to apply a bandage to themselves or a co-worker and do something as basic as CPR. 

Counter argument, I think having the option to play someone that is unskilled in CPR is good too. I like playing stupid characters and I think there are use cases where someone might not know it. Inherently I think this creates RP on its own ie "What do you mean you don't know CPR?", and medical/sec doing training exercises/refresher courses in game to teach someone/re-teach how to do it properly, and ICly this could simply be chalked up to not paying attention during their initial training, or forgetting it.

 

 

9 hours ago, CatsinHD said:

Right now the point distribution feels off. For example:

If I were to sum it up. It feels like I either have too many points to spend or not enough. 8 points for occupational either covers your entire job or barely gets you the skills you need. In many cases, it feels like you can cover your primary skill, but supporting skills you'd expect out of a role get unnecessarily restricted or sidelined because your job has other requirements. See surgeons needing robotics to cut open hardsuits, which is such a fundamental procedure even paramedics are permitted it on the surgery table.

This may be the intent, but to echo a friend "Like essentially the root of my problem is that it feels restrictive rather than permissive... You're taking gameplay opportunity out of a sever that already is noted to have issues with gameplay engagement..." 

Either this requires a shift in how skills affect gameplay (which is impossible in some cases) or leads us to something like being able to transfer skills from every-day or combat. I'm not totally sure on an answer for that. However I can agree that, ftmp, it feels like many roles are very stretched thin in terms of skills and what they are expected to perform. That might also be a server culture shift, idk.

I had this idea to give all jobs a baseline amount of skills that allows them to place the bare minimum amount of skills needed for their job, with more skill points being given the higher their age is over their minimum age requirement for the role. Every three-five years is another skill point or something, and jobs can be re-designed and re-balanced around three different tiers: the young upstart, the experienced professional, and the ten years+ in the field veteran. This, I think, would fix a lot of the issues regarding 90% of the characters being played as the minimum age, and helps softly disincentivize playing minimum age, and would help the "corporate flagship ship full of 20 year old kids" awkward reality which has sort of plagued us for a while. Overall I think this would create more realistic and varied characters too.

This would need balancing depending on the job and occupation, rather than flat restrictions and need tweaked on a case by case basis since a veteran security officer might be 35-40, while a veteran surgeon or medical doctor might be 50-65 years old, etc