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[Resolved] Character Complaint - Joe Vicks


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BYOND Key: sdtwbaj

Game ID: Many rounds.

Player Byond Key: VaValor

Staff involved: N/A

Reason for complaint: Joe Vicks, as a character, is incompatible and unfit for NT, and would very likely be fired in a realistic scenario. I would file an IR, but there's been no canon rounds that I could file the complaint on, as he always somehow ends up intertwining it with antag actions.


So, the gist of it is that Joe Vicks is an asshole. I don't say that lightly. Among other things, he's incredibly disrespectful and downright hostile to his peers, as well as disrespectful, disparaging, and adversarial toward Command staff, getting himself into hot water frequently. Personally, I've quit Security when I see him, just because I can't deal with the incessant drama, bickering, and bullshit that he brings to the department every time he's in a round. He disrespects the chain of command, lacks even a semblance of professionalism, and takes it upon himself to make denigrating remarks about his superiors, straight to their faces. To disregard their orders, to try to give them orders. He isn't compatible with any actual company, and I have the feeling he would be suspended or fired if he could be brought up in an IR.

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? No.

Approximate Date/Time: Since Joe Vicks was created, scattered over the last week or so.

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Seems a lot like it's an issue that should be dealt with through Incident Reports. He does have some security reports so some of the cases have been dealt with.


Any reason why you haven't made an incident report?

 

I would file an IR, but there's been no canon rounds that I could file the complaint on, as he always somehow ends up intertwining it with antag actions.

 

Local administrator requires reading glasses.

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The reason you probably don't have any notes about him is because it's not worth reporting the incident one at a time. I don't know if this is his way of RPing but it seems his goal is to anger as many people as possible. Every time I see Joe Vick it's usually when he's in trouble for something but it's not trouble enough worth reporting since it's usually dealt with ICly.

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I recently was a ninja around him.


He was a FT, finger print, DNA, I am stating how this could cause paradoxes and he said 'I don't care' three times, proceeded to disarm me while I was typing and run off with the finger print.


He was throwing insults at me for no real reason, calling me a lair.


Continued during the game on the holodeck, despite my warnings of non-lethal.


I role the dice, move, throw the disk into the goal and he proceed to flash me, call me a cheater, and throw me against a window. I then non-lethaled him four times, he ignored it all and continued to harass and punch me, so I cut his arm off (and he continued to keep going at me despite a missing arm)


Game ID was bRk-bkGp.

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We have seen this type of character before, and they never last long. Their players either got banned, or they stopped playing them because enough people protested. For some reason, some players enjoy roleplaying as ridiculously rude characters who are somehow able to come to work every day and for some reason think it's acceptable because they themselves are aware of their attitude. However, I am ok with being and have been a gigantic asshole when antagging.


I don't know why VaValor made Vick the way he is, but there is a tasteful way to roleplay an asshole with subtlety, and then there is the type of character that gets this type of complaint because people get tired having to deal with their shit a lot of rounds.

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The problem is him, the Player. I had a round with him as Ninja and after being caught he did his best to annoy Security- not escape but act like a thorn in our side, the greytide kind. During his entire holding he refused to actually interact with Security from an RP standpoint. Asked why he was here and just complained about how we had failed to abide by Corporate law in his arrest (Which is fine, really, but he's one of two Antags, the other being Lich Wizard, and doesn't want to RP. Although, it can be noted after he attempted to escape he said he was willing to "assist" us for a price.) He was put into Communal, tried to escape, was put into Solitary, emagged the door, stunned the HoS with toxins, ran straight to the Armory where I was and baton'd him, and stuck him back in the secondary cell. At this point he had fallen back on to just smacking the door with his chair and once he broke that he started trying to fracture his own skull. This is where my issue is. Who tries to crush their own skull with their fist or slice their head open with a piece of glass? This was the second time he had done self-harm in order to force me to waste time treating him. I had to dislocate his legs- which I hate doing because imo it's excessive force, but had no choice as he made it clear he just wanted to be an annoyance for the rest of the round, went to Medical and requested sedatives that I used to threaten him into better behavior. And of course since he couldn't crush his own head anymore he logged off anyways.


There has also been a Wizard round where he was Joe Vick, Visitor. The Wizard was being escorted to Medical and he came up and said something stupid. The wizard promptly grabbed him and tossed him out into the hall. Seeing as none of us wanted to fuck over any RP that was going to happen we allowed it. So he comes charging back in and starts trying to table the wizard and then toss him out but we flash him and eject him from the Lobby again. He then chose to try and table me for having flashed him. The wizard threw him in the hall where I baton'd him and the wizard accidentally slashed his face. When moved to Processing for battery he spoke of how shit of an Officer I was and I asked him how he could be so ignorant for someone working in ISD as to verbally harass someone and then attack an Officer. I can't remember if he had swapped to LOOC to berate me or not, so I won't claim he did.


But long story short, even when he's not playing Joe Vick he tries to piss people off and when he is, he seems to think he's allowed to play as an annoying asshole and NOT suffer repercussions ICly.

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Dickhead characters are fine, but they must also RP believably, and for the reasons outlined above, VaValor fails to do so. I'd like to bring up the coooonstant LOOC shittery. As many in this thread can attest, VaValor is absolutely horrible in LOOC. I'm afraid I don't have quotes, but there is a lot of baiting and complaining and mocking. Calling me a "s a l t y b o i" for example.

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The problem is him, the Player. I had a round with him as Ninja and after being caught he did his best to annoy Security- not escape but act like a thorn in our side, the greytide kind. During his entire holding he refused to actually interact with Security from an RP standpoint. Asked why he was here and just complained about how we had failed to abide by Corporate law in his arrest (Which is fine, really, but he's one of two Antags, the other being Lich Wizard, and doesn't want to RP. Although, it can be noted after he attempted to escape he said he was willing to "assist" us for a price.) He was put into Communal, tried to escape, was put into Solitary, emagged the door, stunned the HoS with toxins, ran straight to the Armory where I was and baton'd him, and stuck him back in the secondary cell. At this point he had fallen back on to just smacking the door with his chair and once he broke that he started trying to fracture his own skull. This is where my issue is. Who tries to crush their own skull with their fist or slice their head open with a piece of glass? This was the second time he had done self-harm in order to force me to waste time treating him. I had to dislocate his legs- which I hate doing because imo it's excessive force, but had no choice as he made it clear he just wanted to be an annoyance for the rest of the round, went to Medical and requested sedatives that I used to threaten him into better behavior. And of course since he couldn't crush his own head anymore he logged off anyways.


There has also been a Wizard round where he was Joe Vick, Visitor. The Wizard was being escorted to Medical and he came up and said something stupid. The wizard promptly grabbed him and tossed him out into the hall. Seeing as none of us wanted to fuck over any RP that was going to happen we allowed it. So he comes charging back in and starts trying to table the wizard and then toss him out but we flash him and eject him from the Lobby again. He then chose to try and table me for having flashed him. The wizard threw him in the hall where I baton'd him and the wizard accidentally slashed his face. When moved to Processing for battery he spoke of how shit of an Officer I was and I asked him how he could be so ignorant for someone working in ISD as to verbally harass someone and then attack an Officer. I can't remember if he had swapped to LOOC to berate me or not, so I won't claim he did.


But long story short, even when he's not playing Joe Vick he tries to piss people off and when he is, he seems to think he's allowed to play as an annoying asshole and NOT suffer repercussions ICly.

 

I was the wizard. Vick came in, started acting acting like an idiot, being very confrontational when the rest of sex was tryin to stay on my good side, and when he got btfo by Carmicheal, he... wait for it - complained in LOOC. Complained that the "snowflake" noncrew who was being nice, was treated differntly to him.

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I want to jump in on this.


I've had SUCH bad issues with this player. He has LOOC yelled at me for authorizing a warrant on him. He sexually harasses my female characters. He is CONSTANTLY getting in trouble for assaulting crew. I play HoP most rounds, and any round I play with him, there's about a 50% chance I end up being asked to demote him by the captain or HoS. He openly refuses to listen to any order my HoP gives and calls her a bitch at every opportunity. Most rounds, security has to go out of their way to arrest him. There's literally no reason a person like that would continue to be hired for NT. Moreover, I want to point out that he does have canonical security records that indicate he should not be employed with NT, it's a recurring, in character problem.


I've debated posting a character complaint about him too, but I agree with stdwbaj. It's a bunch of little shit, nothing on its own has been enough to file a report on. It's literally just the summation of the character.

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There's a lot to cover for this...

I want to jump in on this.


I've had SUCH bad issues with this player. He has LOOC yelled at me for authorizing a warrant on him. He sexually harasses my female characters. He is CONSTANTLY getting in trouble for assaulting crew. I play HoP most rounds, and any round I play with him, there's about a 50% chance I end up being asked to demote him by the captain or HoS. He openly refuses to listen to any order my HoP gives and calls her a bitch at every opportunity. Most rounds, security has to go out of their way to arrest him. There's literally no reason a person like that would continue to be hired for NT. Moreover, I want to point out that he does have canonical security records that indicate he should not be employed with NT, it's a recurring, in character problem.


I've debated posting a character complaint about him too, but I agree with stdwbaj. It's a bunch of little shit, nothing on its own has been enough to file a report on. It's literally just the summation of the character.

 

If I yelled at you in LOOC for authorizing a warrant I was either drunk (oocly) or I'm that stupid, Joe Vick is a character that's made to be disliked (slightly), he is a MINOR prick, he doesn't do anything extreme that would result in people wanting to kill him, he, as this thread suggests, does minor stuff that people get slightly annoyed at, but it is mostly all IC, of course I would be a dick during antag rounds, you hardly ever see a "nice heart of gold guy that just so happens to worship an elderitch god of death and blood" (cultist), you only see a manipulative cult leader that's either clearly insane or hides his insanity, or a nice corporate spy that makes everyone tea (traitor, duh), which is why most antag rounds aren't strictly canon, they can BE canon if the events are convoluted enough and muddled to the extent that you'd still be able to work for the company, as stated in the rules, but they don't HAVE to be canon, especially if they don't work for the character, and they don't work for Joe and his character, he's a minor prick, he's an ex-jarhead that doesn't know any better and he's trying his best to re-intergrate into civilian life as best he can, but anyone that has ever met an ex-marine, or anyone that was previously in any sort of military, knows that it's not exactly peaches and rainbows after you spent your teenage years up to your thirties killing your fellow humans for a paycheck, of course he's going to be a slight dick AT THE LEAST, but again, nothing he does is serious, it's all little shit that I'm honestly surprised anyone even bothered making a complaint about it, an IC complaint? Fine, Joe has done a lot of things that would make some people not like him, to the point I could understand someone filing a complaint (an IC one, or one on the fourms) on him, but taking it OOC over IC actions is a bit of a stretch, if you don't like how he acts ICly, take ACTION about it ICly, (this could be said for nearly everything here) everyone that actually gets to know Joe for more than 5 seconds knows that he can be a good guy when you get to know him, Jesse, the cadet for example, Rusalana, security officer, etc etc, being rough around the edges doesn't mean you'd never get hired for a job. And this is just the start.


I've only ever hit on two people in game, once each, and then I stopped, and no, security doesn't have to go out of their way to arrest me, nor am I "always arrested for assaulting the crew", I recently checked my incident reports and only about 3 of them (all happening quite a ways away from eachother) were about assault, and I don't call your HoP a bitch at every chance I get, I've done that twice, and twice of those were during high stress situations, I.e, in the middle of an investigation on a shapeshifting serial killer that has murdered 4 crewmembers already where you're going out of your fucking way to demote me for swatting swabkit out of a detective that stole said swab kit out of my case.

 

At this point he had fallen back on to just smacking the door with his chair and once he broke that he started trying to fracture his own skull. This is where my issue is. Who tries to crush their own skull with their fist or slice their head open with a piece of glass? This was the second time he had done self-harm in order to force me to waste time treating him. I had to dislocate his legs- which I hate doing because imo it's excessive force, but to threaten him into better behavior. And of course since he couldn't crush his own head anymore he logged off anyways.


There has also been a Wizard round where he was Joe Vick, Visitor. The Wizard was being escorted to Medical and he came up and said something stupid. The wizard promptly grabbed him and tossed him out into the hall. Seeing as none of us wanted to fuck over any RP that was going to happen we allowed it. So he comes charging back in and starts trying to table the wizard and then toss him out but we flash him and eject him from the Lobby again. He then chose to try and table me for having flashed him. The wizard threw him in the hall where I baton'd him and the wizard accidentally slashed his face. When moved to Processing for battery he spoke of how shit of an Officer I was and I asked him how he could be so ignorant for someone working in ISD as to verbally harass someone and then attack an Officer. I can't remember if he had swapped to LOOC to berate me or not, so I won't claim he did.


But long story short, even when he's not playing Joe Vick he tries to piss people off and when he is, he seems to think he's allowed to play as an annoying asshole and NOT suffer repercussions ICly.

First off, I broke a bone in the hopes that I would be able to be brought to medical, which would give me an actual chance to escape as opposed to sitting in a cell, second, nobody in security ever attempted to roleplay with me, literally, the only time anyone ever spoke to me was when you threatened to sedate me for the entirety of the shift, that was the only "roleplay" there was to be had in security, nobody made any attempts and since I was effectively taken out of the game I decided to play something else, and "who would crush their skull in an attempt to escape prison?" Why, a dozen real world inmates, glad you asked. And also an actual fucking trained ninja who has a feature on his suit that literally explodes him which he is not afraid to use, that seems like the kind of person that isn't afraid of breaking a single bone in order to put himself in a situation where he has an opportunity to escape.


Secondly, I didn't say anything stupid, I walked up to medical and was talking with SOMEONE, I don't remember who, and I don't remember if it was the wizard or not, and then at this point, someone ELSE, not me, said jokingly "Snowscale? More like SNOWFLAKE" and I asked a genuine question about the robes he was wearing after a while, at which point he grabbed me and threw me across the room, in response to this, I did the same, at which point I was harm batoned and abused while the pure white wizard in red robes got to walk off scot free, and I don't recall "berating you" in LOOC, but I think I should add that shortly after someone in LOOC called Snowscale (the wizard) Snowflake I retold the joke in security in LOOC, which probably caused the confusion of me "berating" someone in LOOC, which I did not.

 

I recently was a ninja around him.


He was a FT, finger print, DNA, I am stating how this could cause paradoxes and he said 'I don't care' three times, proceeded to disarm me while I was typing and run off with the finger print.


He was throwing insults at me for no real reason, calling me a lair.


Continued during the game on the holodeck, despite my warnings of non-lethal.


I role the dice, move, throw the disk into the goal and he proceed to flash me, call me a cheater, and throw me against a window. I then non-lethaled him four times, he ignored it all and continued to harass and punch me, so I cut his arm off (and he continued to keep going at me despite a missing arm)


Game ID was bRk-bkGp.

This is empirically false, yes, I did take your DNA and fingerprint, yes, I did insult you and call you a liar, no, I did not continue to insult you in the holodeck.


You need to understand how any of this would look from an outsiders point of view, nobody is exactly the same as you.

A strange man in a military grade hardsuit with military grade weapons is claiming to be the captain of the very station we inhabit but "In the future" which is shady enough as it is without the night black hardsuit literally described in game as an "ominous hardsuit" that has very hightech weapons such as a

teleporter (okay, okay, not TOO shady, right?)

non-lethal energy shurikens (getting a tiny bit shifty)

and a ultra-sharp lethal energy sword that can delimb people in only two swings (this is not at all anything any sane company would allow someone to intergrate into their hardsuit)

So forgive my character for being skeptical of a very, very, very obvious liar wearing what looks to be a very dangerous walking talking weapon, that has illegally accessed this station through means of teleportation.


And that's JUST why I was "calling you a liar." You had "cheated" in a game in the holodeck which everyone in the game called an illegal move, was flashing you taking it a bit too far? Probably, but you still need to understand that just because you CLAIM, very flimsily claim, that you're the captain of this station in the future, doesn't mean everyone's dumb enough to believe you, especially not a forensics technician, someone who works for security, and how security wouldn't exactly treat "visitors" wearing military grade hardsuits with the utmost respect.

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From the little experience I've had with Vick, he's arguably the worst security officer in the game. The only memorable experience I've had with him when he wasn't an antag, was him slandering and shouting at the captain for ten minutes straight over not getting lawgivers handed out to all security officers the moment we saw the antag. The problem really is with the player, he takes the "unlikable" part of the character way too far, to the point of annoying people OOCly.

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I've actually never had any negative experiences with Vick, personally. I've been in a few of these rounds that have been spoken about but my not being in Sec has lead to me not seeing these issues.

All in all, from my PERSONAL EXPERIENCES, Vick's just a character that stirs the pot a bit, which seems OK.

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From the little experience I've had with Vick, he's arguably the worst security officer in the game. The only memorable experience I've had with him when he wasn't an antag, was him slandering and shouting at the captain for ten minutes straight over not getting lawgivers handed out to all security officers the moment we saw the antag. The problem really is with the player, he takes the "unlikable" part of the character way too far, to the point of annoying people OOCly.

 

Was not slander, and I was "shouting" (i.e, saying "man, that would've gone a lot smoother if i had a lawgiver, huh?) at the HoS, (whose life I saved) for not giving me appropriate equipment for the situation at hand, and he said that he wouldn't give me a lawgiver because I said I'd tase him if he killed a prisoner that was subdued, and yes, I insulted the captain (which is not slander, as there was feedback and a reason behind the insult) for not handling the situation appropriately, while a bit ironic, you're blowing this way out of proportion.


And it's pretty bold to admit you have had little experience with me and yet say I'm the worst security officer when I almost never even play security officer, and keep mostly to CSI or detective, and when the only memorable experience is that one, singular thing.

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Another issue I have with him, when he is CSI, he constantly runs around the station like a security officer. Now, to my points that I will address.

 

If I yelled at you in LOOC for authorizing a warrant I was either drunk (oocly) or I'm that stupid.

 

If you were drunk, why should we trust that you can control yourself?

 

he is a MINOR prick, he doesn't do anything extreme that would result in people wanting to kill him.

 

This is not a "minor" prick. You escalate the situation for no reason at all to the point of you being arrested.

 

of course I would be a dick during antag rounds, you hardly ever see a "nice heart of gold guy that just so happens to worship an elderitch god of death and blood" (cultist), you only see a manipulative cult leader that's either clearly insane or hides his insanity, or a nice corporate spy that makes everyone tea (traitor, duh)

 

This is starting to go into the lines of valid hunting and this will make people dislike you, a lot. You are being a dick to antags and trying to get them arrested because you OOCly know they are antag? Calling people liars, scandals, and scum when they show zero intention of being hostile?

 

First off, I broke a bone in the hopes that I would be able to be brought to medical, which would give me an actual chance to escape as opposed to sitting in a cell

 

You clearly admitted to the fact that you are ignoring pain and acting unrealistically while a sane person will not break their own bones because they got ten minutes inside the brig. Why should people roleplay with you? You constantly act dickish and annoying, and thrown in a cell. When you act like this, do not expect everyone has to roleplay with you.

 

non-lethal energy shurikens (getting a tiny bit shifty)

and a ultra-sharp lethal energy sword that can delimb people in only two swings (this is not at all anything any sane company would allow someone to intergrate into their hardsuit)

So forgive my character for being skeptical of a very, very, very obvious liar wearing what looks to be a very dangerous walking talking weapon, that has illegally accessed this station through means of teleportation.

 

Alright, I will admit, the teleportation is a little shady and you have knowledge of it. But there is still issues with this.


I did not use the shrunkins on you nor the sword until I used it on you, you would ICly have zero knowledge about this hard suit and what it has installed on it.


Are you implying that you called me a liar because you magically knew that this suit was fully armed? All I really did was teleport.


Secondly, the people inside the holodeck did call you a bad sport, and you kept ignoring the fact I non-lethaled you four times to "lol rush and punch." That is why I cut your arm off, and you even continued until medical pushed you down to get you to stop. I got flack from security when I cut off your arm.

 

And that's JUST why I was "calling you a liar." You had "cheated" in a game in the holodeck which everyone in the game called an illegal move

 

The logs would state otherwise. I threw the plate into the goal and you just walked up and flashed me.

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From the little experience I've had with Vick, he's arguably the worst security officer in the game. The only memorable experience I've had with him when he wasn't an antag, was him slandering and shouting at the captain for ten minutes straight over not getting lawgivers handed out to all security officers the moment we saw the antag. The problem really is with the player, he takes the "unlikable" part of the character way too far, to the point of annoying people OOCly.

 

Was not slander, and I was "shouting" (i.e, saying "man, that would've gone a lot smoother if i had a lawgiver, huh?) at the HoS, (whose life I saved) for not giving me appropriate equipment for the situation at hand, and he said that he wouldn't give me a lawgiver because I said I'd tase him if he killed a prisoner that was subdued, and yes, I insulted the captain (which is not slander, as there was feedback and a reason behind the insult) for not handling the situation appropriately, while a bit ironic, you're blowing this way out of proportion.


And it's pretty bold to admit you have had little experience with me and yet say I'm the worst security officer when I almost never even play security officer, and keep mostly to CSI or detective, and when the only memorable experience is that one, singular thing.

 

Well, I probably said security officer cause I'd barely had any sleep the night before, so that's my bad. But no, you weren't just having a civil conversation over what you got to deal with the antag. You yelled at the captain and HoS hysterically for 10 minutes.

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It's rant time.


I just had a really cool round with one of the most annoying endings, which was remedied by staff intervention at the very end.

I don't have logs, but allow me to paraphrase what happened this round that frustrates me so much.

 

- Using a max-level shadow shroud, I can create a moving shroud of darkness. I had staff change my color value to #000000, which made me pitch-black. I changed my flavour text to this creepy ethereal text, and teleported to cargo.

- I went down the elevator, got some mesons for vision through my darkness, and got the cappys ID.

- Proceed through the station, and people notice the darkness. Everyone's like 'holy shit, that's creepy!' at first, although a few people think it's a bug at first I presume and were more jovial about it.

- A few cool seconds later, Joe Vicks sees me and is actually pretty good with his fearRP. He tries to act tough but backs up, clearly scared. And good on him!

- As time goes on, someone openly refuses to obey the eldritch abomination and pokes fun at it, which proceeds in me slicing it a few times with a knife. He then disarms me in the total dark and steals my knife, mocking me about it. He walks into a beartrap and I beat him to death in the darkness.

- All the time making cool scary statements about death and shit, hinting at my purpose here, etc.

- Joe Vick, after getting more aggresive ICly, opens fire on me on sight. Whatever, I guess, I killed someone and even though I was speaking, whatever, I guess.

- Proceed to summon darkness and heal myself up. There was no sign I was even harmed to anyone, but Joe Vick has this suicidal overconfidence that it 'can be killed'. This is based of OOC knowledge that it's a human mob, but, whatever, he's sec (albeit a detective chasing an ethereal spectre with a revolver).

- I've been speaking about my purpose here, and how it can end without bloodshed, but Joe Vick has decided he's in antag removal mode. He consistently insults me over the radio, despite having been shot to near-death several times by this point.

- Eventually, he agrees to surrender and be killed 'quickly and with honor'. Obviously, this is a trap. Everyone can see it from a mile away. But I think, whatever, interesting conflict, it could be cool.

- I show up, and he throws his gun away as he said he would. And I start monologuing, saying some shit about giving him an honorable death. I type maybe three messages, and suddenly he whips out two hyposprays and rushes me with both. Me, an ethereal being of pure darkness, because he knows that it'll work from an OOC perspective. He went out of his way to use OOC knowledge and my good will to take down the antag. I try to shoot him with a shotgun, but he immediately runs off. He also tried to grenade me during this.

- I get into maint and pass out, and get dragged to Joe Vick by a doctor and have both my legs dislocated. Then, he cuffs me, and leaves my legs dislocated, dragging me across the ground, all the while constantly insulting me.

- Eventually, he tries to interview me, and I tell him that I evaporate at midnight, and can attack from any shadow at any time. I make it clear that I'll be free soon and will kill him, and he doesn't care because it's off-station and he knows, again OOCly, that it doesn't matter. He dares me to prove that I can kill him, because he knows OOCly that the darkness is just an overlay. Despite my usage of it showing me transforming into it, he knows OOCly that it doesn't matter.

- I use my darkness ability in quick succession to show this transformation into the dark force, and he proceeds to get me sedated so I'll stop using it.

- Finally, when an ERT shows up to have me studied, he continues to berate, insult, and demean the eldritch abomination that can kill him in his sleep. He makes it clear that he doesn't care about the fact it can and will kill him.

 

 

That's long, but it can be summed up with: Joe Vick decided to take down an antag, and metagamed to all hell to do it. He abused the goodwill I presented, and ruined something actually really damn interesting.

Joe Vick needs to get a better understanding of the fact he's playing a crewmember through a game, not a game through a crewmember. You can be an asshole, but you need to be realistic and understand your place in the world.

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Ok sorry but guess I got something to say on this. Vicks can really push the asshole concept, he is incredibly confrontational to the point of hostile, now whether he was an antag during all these complaints is unlikely but I would count him as antagonizing having witnessed in passing or right in front of me, overhearing random LOOC (which can be heard through walls incase you didn't know) and actually been a somewhat victim. So I guess I gotta testify to some of these complaints in favor against him.


A recent IC issue (really early this morning) I dealt with was as a vaurca, I guess this is an example of one of these small incidents. Now there was 2 of us vaurcae just chilling like some of the nicest bugs at the kitchen when I was just standing next to the kitchen fridge, at the counter as I had been most of the round to talk with the other bug, dropping off plants. He then threw Mitra up the hall as far as he could of which is then SKREEE'd upon, as it would be seeing as how we'd developed the utmost respect and love for the "tiny robutt monkey puter" having thought they may have damaged the poor and ICly fragile pAI. After this he proceeded to push my bug and tells them to "get out my face" from where he'd been standing previously, and so I messaged Alan Grimes the detective (having thought ICly that it was the "ovher Alon", since all humans look the same especially in similar trenchcoats and having a hilariously confused interaction previously with Alan during the same round) to say they had thrown Mitra and pushed them a bunch. This turned into a rather hilarious interview in security with Alan over what had happened. Though I've gotta think plenty of people could have got violent after being pushed repeatedly and having a respected entity disrespectively thrown by a random stranger. Vicks could have moved away along the counter (Ziim had been standing there the whole time adjacent to the fridge on the counter, so you did instigate the pushing which was not acted against, I originally actually thought my key had stuck or something until he said) but instead tried to antagonize another staff member who was understandably shocked by their actions to the adorable tiny robot.


Another example from a while ago now (maybe a few days ago or last week) I was a ghost as I had been got by ling in misc lab and stuffed into a locker (that was all totally well and cool, definitely a curse-your-sudden-but-inevitable-betrayal kinda situation that was quite funny), it took a while before I was found by a new arrival and both Noir and Vick showed up to the scene. Overall I'd say Vick definitely did a pretty shit job of investigating despite repeatedly saying he knew what he was doing, and when Noir had asked for a swab and then took one, Vick flipped out, pushed and disarmed him all for taking a swab. Vick then took my body to be morgued (I did say "cloning" over LOOC when I saw just to let them know I've been online the whole time which he said no to) but that glorious humanbeing Ward Sagan appeared, as that holy angel does, and wrestled from Vicks (Who wasn't really up for just handing my body over) from what would have been the end of me that round. Cloning worked fine without any problems. Noir pressed charges against Vicks for the assault in misc lab of which Vicks was resigned of duty, this did not go down well to him and he had what I could only call a bitch fit over radio during the time Ward was getting me out of sec while I was still a ghost to a while after I was cloned.


Now as for being a former jarhead, if there's anything you were taught as a teen is respect for your comrades and so fellow staff, it isn't to be an asshole to other people unless you dropped out early and never formed any bonds with anyone during your time there, just left an angry drop out. To go from killing fellow humans (if they did actually get past early bootcamp) to investigating crime scenes, you'd expect to have a lot more respect for life in general or otherwise may very well be a psychopath and get off on the death, not somebody I'd trust in a morgue or handling dead bodies.


In the case of self-harming to get out of prison, which is definitely not common among "world prisoners" who actually just get on with it and serve their time, you'd definitely be sedated and transfered to a secure psychiatric unit. The kinda PTSD you're hoping to base your character on is not really employable and comes across more as ASPD while there are plenty of former jarheads who won't be as bad, there would be no shortage of them that Nanotrassen could replace him with.


This complaint system is somewhat lore based on the corporate structure, and is as such IC but handled through the likes of IA and HR. You should also have a canonical employment record with history and qualifications before playing just about any role other than miner, cargo tech, janitor, etc, and this for a forensic technician is "At least 25 years of age, applicable Criminal Forensics degree or 7 years experience in Criminal Forensics/Investigation". So you'd generally have to have studied forensics at a university on top of any supposed military career, even that 7 years experience in forensics would still have a diploma or certification. The HoP can check your employment record and this can be passed on to an IAA which can effectively end your career and character's employment from NT in some cases. So calling them a bitch repeatedly over the radio isn't doing yourself any favors.


Don't get me wrong there's nothing better than a well-played asshole and there are a few that are very well played and make some wonderful professional nemini(? plural of nemisis? who are not really antagonizing) but rule 1 is don't be a dick and I'm sure it follows not to antagonize when not an antagonist. IRL pushing a coworker can get you fired, let alone some of these allegations and I'd say I've seen better characters get permabanned, hell I've seen job bans just for not meeting minimum age and qualifications from folks who were friendly and good at their job. Everyone hears you when you shout and scream over common and it really doesn't help your case as a respectable or even stable character.

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Another issue I have with him, when he is CSI, he constantly runs around the station like a security officer. Now, to my points that I will address.

 

If I yelled at you in LOOC for authorizing a warrant I was either drunk (oocly) or I'm that stupid.

 

If you were drunk, why should we trust that you can control yourself?

 

he is a MINOR prick, he doesn't do anything extreme that would result in people wanting to kill him.

 

This is not a "minor" prick. You escalate the situation for no reason at all to the point of you being arrested.

 

of course I would be a dick during antag rounds, you hardly ever see a "nice heart of gold guy that just so happens to worship an elderitch god of death and blood" (cultist), you only see a manipulative cult leader that's either clearly insane or hides his insanity, or a nice corporate spy that makes everyone tea (traitor, duh)

 

This is starting to go into the lines of valid hunting and this will make people dislike you, a lot. You are being a dick to antags and trying to get them arrested because you OOCly know they are antag? Calling people liars, scandals, and scum when they show zero intention of being hostile?

 

First off, I broke a bone in the hopes that I would be able to be brought to medical, which would give me an actual chance to escape as opposed to sitting in a cell

 

You clearly admitted to the fact that you are ignoring pain and acting unrealistically while a sane person will not break their own bones because they got ten minutes inside the brig. Why should people roleplay with you? You constantly act dickish and annoying, and thrown in a cell. When you act like this, do not expect everyone has to roleplay with you.

 

non-lethal energy shurikens (getting a tiny bit shifty)

and a ultra-sharp lethal energy sword that can delimb people in only two swings (this is not at all anything any sane company would allow someone to intergrate into their hardsuit)

So forgive my character for being skeptical of a very, very, very obvious liar wearing what looks to be a very dangerous walking talking weapon, that has illegally accessed this station through means of teleportation.

 

Alright, I will admit, the teleportation is a little shady and you have knowledge of it. But there is still issues with this.


I did not use the shrunkins on you nor the sword until I used it on you, you would ICly have zero knowledge about this hard suit and what it has installed on it.


Are you implying that you called me a liar because you magically knew that this suit was fully armed? All I really did was teleport.


Secondly, the people inside the holodeck did call you a bad sport, and you kept ignoring the fact I non-lethaled you four times to "lol rush and punch." That is why I cut your arm off, and you even continued until medical pushed you down to get you to stop. I got flack from security when I cut off your arm.

 

And that's JUST why I was "calling you a liar." You had "cheated" in a game in the holodeck which everyone in the game called an illegal move

 

The logs would state otherwise. I threw the plate into the goal and you just walked up and flashed me.

 

I do not run around the station as CSI pretending to be an officer, I respond to calls as a detective and try to de-escalate situations but that's it, I only preform arrests as detective if I'm the only member of security.


"If you were drunk why should we trust you to control yourself?"


One, I said I was drunk OOCly, which rarely happens, I'm not an alcoholic.

Two, because being drunk isn't being high on meth, I'm not a crazed lunatic just because I'm drunk, I'm still able to control myself, I just make poor judgement calls sometimes, I.e, that one time.


"This is not a "minor" prick. You escalate the situation for no reason at all to the point of you being arrested." / "Are you implying that you called me a liar because you magically knew that this suit was fully armed? All I really did was teleport."


No, I did not escalate the situation to the point of being arrested, and to kill two birds with one stone, no, I didn't "magically" know you had those built into your suit, what are you implying? I'm saying I knew you had them after you used them, I.e, teleportation, yes, a bit shifty.

Then you used non-lethals on me despite as the captain had said, you're a basically nothing but a visitor, even more shady, to the point I'm even more skeptical of the "time traveler captain" with military grade shurikens and a teleporter, and I don't think anyone would take kindly to having energy darts thrown into them. And then you cut off my arm over punches? I mean, from what I've seen from current captains that's a bit lax so that was clearly a dead giveaway, you should've cut off both my legs and arms. (Joking slightly, very clearly, but a Captain of a very high-tech space station 100 years in the future wouldn't cut off someones arm just because they were punched, you should have at the VERY least called security if you wanted your "I'm the captain in the future" gimmick to continue working, as it was a flimsy facade to begin with.



"This is starting to go into the lines of valid hunting and this will make people dislike you, a lot. You are being a dick to antags and trying to get them arrested because you OOCly know they are antag? Calling people liars, scandals, and scum when they show zero intention of being hostile?"


And, you took that bit entirely wrong, I said I act like an ass when I'm an antag, not the other way around, you're saying that I validhunt because I act rude when I'm an antag, I never said that I use the fact I'm a cultist to spreekill, I said that I act slightly off when I'm an antag, or I act suspicious when I'm traitor, when I was cultist, for example, I walked over to the bar as a detective and walked into the kitchen, drawing my gun and taking the chef hostage, I called security over and made demands, first off was I wanted the book I held studied by scientists, I demonstrated that there was actual magic inside the book by arming myself with robes and a sword, afterwhich I demanded glasses, earmuffs, and a gasmask, so that flashbangs and pepperspray wouldn't harm me (durr metagame? No, because I was security, and I would know what tacitcs security would use when dealing with hostage situations.) At this point tensions started to grow, and security was doubting I'd shoot the hostage, so I shoot him in the foot for proof, at which point I demand I get a doctor to come in here to fix him, I then hear noises coming from maint so my character starts freaking out, it was around this time security started to burst in, so did I shoot the chef? No, with admin permission, I put my revolver in my mouth and pulled the trigger, my career was ruined and there was no coming back from taking a fellow employee hostage, and if I wasn't HuT, I would at the very least get a hefty brig sentance and a demotion, which would ruin everything, I took myself out of the game for the sake of roleplay, does this sound like validhunting to you? Did I validhunt myself? Everyone had a good time except the guy that had to bring me my earmuffs/glasses/gasmask, because I had to demand that he strip to his underwear so he couldn't conceal any weapons. Not to mention, not being hostile =/= I magically trust just anybody that magically trespasses into a secure corporate space station, or just any "visitor" that claims they "got lost on their way to the space denny's"



"You clearly admitted to the fact that you are ignoring pain and acting unrealistically while a sane person will not break their own bones because they got ten minutes inside the brig."


No. I did not admit to ignoring pain.

And no, It was not 10 minutes in the brig, it was HuT for various charges, I wasn't in solitary for a petty 10 minutes in the brig, and I wasn't told for no reason that I was HuT.


You teleported right up next to the goal and THEN threw it in, logs will prove that both of the dude-bro's that invented the sport said something along the lines of "Woah, is that like, even legal?" to which the other responded "Like, I think that's cheating!" (Paraphrasing slightly.)

 

It's rant time.


I just had a really cool round with one of the most annoying endings, which was remedied by staff intervention at the very end.

I don't have logs, but allow me to paraphrase what happened this round that frustrates me so much.

 

- Using a max-level shadow shroud, I can create a moving shroud of darkness. I had staff change my color value to #000000, which made me pitch-black. I changed my flavour text to this creepy ethereal text, and teleported to cargo.

- I went down the elevator, got some mesons for vision through my darkness, and got the cappys ID.

- Proceed through the station, and people notice the darkness. Everyone's like 'holy shit, that's creepy!' at first, although a few people think it's a bug at first I presume and were more jovial about it.

- A few cool seconds later, Joe Vicks sees me and is actually pretty good with his fearRP. He tries to act tough but backs up, clearly scared. And good on him!

- As time goes on, someone openly refuses to obey the eldritch abomination and pokes fun at it, which proceeds in me slicing it a few times with a knife. He then disarms me in the total dark and steals my knife, mocking me about it. He walks into a beartrap and I beat him to death in the darkness.

- All the time making cool scary statements about death and shit, hinting at my purpose here, etc.

- Joe Vick, after getting more aggresive ICly, opens fire on me on sight. Whatever, I guess, I killed someone and even though I was speaking, whatever, I guess.

- Proceed to summon darkness and heal myself up. There was no sign I was even harmed to anyone, but Joe Vick has this suicidal overconfidence that it 'can be killed'. This is based of OOC knowledge that it's a human mob, but, whatever, he's sec (albeit a detective chasing an ethereal spectre with a revolver).

- I've been speaking about my purpose here, and how it can end without bloodshed, but Joe Vick has decided he's in antag removal mode. He consistently insults me over the radio, despite having been shot to near-death several times by this point.

- Eventually, he agrees to surrender and be killed 'quickly and with honor'. Obviously, this is a trap. Everyone can see it from a mile away. But I think, whatever, interesting conflict, it could be cool.

- I show up, and he throws his gun away as he said he would. And I start monologuing, saying some shit about giving him an honorable death. I type maybe three messages, and suddenly he whips out two hyposprays and rushes me with both. Me, an ethereal being of pure darkness, because he knows that it'll work from an OOC perspective. He went out of his way to use OOC knowledge and my good will to take down the antag. I try to shoot him with a shotgun, but he immediately runs off. He also tried to grenade me during this.

- I get into maint and pass out, and get dragged to Joe Vick by a doctor and have both my legs dislocated. Then, he cuffs me, and leaves my legs dislocated, dragging me across the ground, all the while constantly insulting me.

- Eventually, he tries to interview me, and I tell him that I evaporate at midnight, and can attack from any shadow at any time. I make it clear that I'll be free soon and will kill him, and he doesn't care because it's off-station and he knows, again OOCly, that it doesn't matter. He dares me to prove that I can kill him, because he knows OOCly that the darkness is just an overlay. Despite my usage of it showing me transforming into it, he knows OOCly that it doesn't matter.

- I use my darkness ability in quick succession to show this transformation into the dark force, and he proceeds to get me sedated so I'll stop using it.

- Finally, when an ERT shows up to have me studied, he continues to berate, insult, and demean the eldritch abomination that can kill him in his sleep. He makes it clear that he doesn't care about the fact it can and will kill him.

 

 

That's long, but it can be summed up with: Joe Vick decided to take down an antag, and metagamed to all hell to do it. He abused the goodwill I presented, and ruined something actually really damn interesting.

Joe Vick needs to get a better understanding of the fact he's playing a crewmember through a game, not a game through a crewmember. You can be an asshole, but you need to be realistic and understand your place in the world.

 

How was this at all metagame? Injecting you with sleep toxins (something a doctor told me to do isn't metagame.

Lying to you to get you to you in order to get you to approach me is not metagame.

And there was no "good will." You approached me to kill me, and the second you arrived on the station you were typing in all-caps and bold talking about how you came here for "revenge," and even after that you had murdered a crewmember, I actually felt kind of bad for shooting you when I saw you so I just watched what was going to happen by the elevators, at this point you started to murder a crewmember for "Disobeying", so excuse me for abusing the "goodwill" of a murdering shadow monster, and no, neither me, nor the doctor that gave me the syringes knew it would work, we both thought you were a lich and that the drugs would have no effect and I was hoping that the drugs would fail and I'd die horribly after even attempting this for good RP, and I later learned that the doctor wanted the same thing to happen, and no, it wasn't based on the ooc assumption that it was a human mob, it was Joe Vick rationalizing something he thought couldn't be real, "I mean, it has to die, right?" etc etc, what you mistook for metagaming was actually the ravings of a pants-pissingly terrified detective who wasn't trained to handle some eldritch monster of pure darkness, who was still somewhat busy "cleaning the ""drink"" he spilled off of his pants"


And again, all your points here is that "I knew OOCly", I'm still pretty new to this server, I had no fucking clue what was going on OOCly or ICly, you and your chases actually scared the shit out of me both OOCly and ICly, it was actually thrilling to run away from a quickly approaching darkness, not being able to see anything and not even being able to fight back as you're torn apart from either heavy blows from fists or a sharp knife. And I "didn't care" (Which I did care, Joe was just trying to act tough even though he was horribly scared of what he was seeing because "holy shit this thing's going to kill me.") Because I was clearly able to see you couldn't stand up with your legs dislocated, and I wasn't "insulting" you, there were wisecracks, yes, to make light of a dark situation (no pun intended) but they weren't direct insults, and again, I did care, I just pretended not to care in your presence, when you were sedated, and when you were not in my presence, I made sure everyone knew how scared I was, and at one point I ran from the ERT and tried to escape on the shuttle because they wanted to use me as bait/hand me over to you so you could kill me and I was begging not to die almost the whole trip from escape to xenobio, just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it wasn't there, and even then, sometimes Joe slipped up, I.e, when you were in the custody of the ERT, when you snapped your head 180 degrees to look back at Joe he hid behind a locker and said "Don't look at me." (paraphrasing slightly, maybe it was "I didn't say anything" I don't remember entirely.)

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How was this at all metagame? Injecting you with sleep toxins (something a doctor told me to do isn't metagame.

Lying to you to get you to you in order to get you to approach me is not metagame.

And there was no "good will." You approached me to kill me, and the second you arrived on the station you were typing in all-caps and bold talking about how you came here for "revenge," and even after that you had murdered a crewmember, I actually felt kind of bad for shooting you when I saw you so I just watched what was going to happen by the elevators, at this point you started to murder a crewmember for "Disobeying", so excuse me for abusing the "goodwill" of a murdering shadow monster, and no, neither me, nor the doctor that gave me the syringes knew it would work, we both thought you were a lich and that the drugs would have no effect and I was hoping that the drugs would fail and I'd die horribly after even attempting this for good RP, and I later learned that the doctor wanted the same thing to happen, and no, it wasn't based on the ooc assumption that it was a human mob, it was Joe Vick rationalizing something he thought couldn't be real, "I mean, it has to die, right?" etc etc, what you mistook for metagaming was actually the ravings of a pants-pissingly terrified detective who wasn't trained to handle some eldritch monster of pure darkness, who was still somewhat busy "cleaning the ""drink"" he spilled off of his pants"


And again, all your points here is that "I knew OOCly", I'm still pretty new to this server, I had no fucking clue what was going on OOCly or ICly, you and your chases actually scared the shit out of me both OOCly and ICly, it was actually thrilling to run away from a quickly approaching darkness, not being able to see anything and not even being able to fight back as you're torn apart from either heavy blows from fists or a sharp knife. And I "didn't care" (Which I did care, Joe was just trying to act tough even though he was horribly scared of what he was seeing because "holy shit this thing's going to kill me.") Because I was clearly able to see you couldn't stand up with your legs dislocated, and I wasn't "insulting" you, there were wisecracks, yes, to make light of a dark situation (no pun intended) but they weren't direct insults, and again, I did care, I just pretended not to care in your presence, when you were sedated, and when you were not in my presence, I made sure everyone knew how scared I was, and at one point I ran from the ERT and tried to escape on the shuttle because they wanted to use me as bait/hand me over to you so you could kill me and I was begging not to die almost the whole trip from escape to xenobio, just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it wasn't there, and even then, sometimes Joe slipped up, I.e, when you were in the custody of the ERT, when you snapped your head 180 degrees to look back at Joe he hid behind a locker and said "Don't look at me." (paraphrasing slightly, maybe it was "I didn't say anything" I don't remember entirely.)

 

This is pretty upsetting, actually, because I hoped that you'd seen what the issue was from the staff interaction. It's not like I dislike you, I just don't like how you played.


I actually see you were trying to roleplay fear and, hey, my bad for assuming that you were acting like a cold war-hardened soldier for the whole thing. Good on you for going out of your way to play fear to other people. My issue was the way that it was done - you made the decision to open fire on me and rush me when I was talking several times. When I was talking on the radio, you'd run in and shoot with the revolver, then leg it. This may make sense from a direct point of view, but it's not interesting to anyone. It's attempting to take down the antag. When I came to you to the obvious trap, I was prepared to be shot. I was thinking that might be a cool conclusion. But we all knew it was a trap, and my attempts at roleplay while I was monologing were shut down by rushing with two hyposprays and dislocating of the legs.


I can see now that it wasn't actually an attempt to actively shut down the antagonist in the spiteful way that lots of people do, so I'm sorry for assuming that was the case. I just want to make it clear that your actions shut down the game in an uninteresting way. Being dragged around with dislocated legs, injected as a shadow creature with hyposprays, even if these things can be justified they need to be done in an interesting way. It took this eldritch shadow creature that no-one has ever seen down instantly, and in an uninteresting way, despite the fact that I had not taken anyone out of the game who had not completely deserved it (and I mean that in the sense of mocking a shadow death creature to its face).

But hey, seeing that you did go out of your way to roleplay in a scared fashion, and were trying to play in in a believable way, I'm sorry if I was coming across as part of the 'FUCK JOE VICK' squad. I hope you can see where my issue is, and that there's no bad blood going forwards.

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After reviewing the logs and speaking to the player in question, I've deemed this to be an IC issue. I understand the reason the complaint was made in the first place was because all of the rounds in question seem to have been antag-related, but I can't justify taking OOC action because of that. VaValor has been spoken to regarding the issues presented, though in all of the logs reviewed, their behavior seemed justified. I'll be leaving this open for 24 hours.

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