Butterrobber202 Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 why is there a dick hanging out of its skirt jb is a trap lover confirmed :thronking:
AmoryBlaine Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 I like it, but I demand Miner-Moleman warfare. I hope this goes far either way.
Bauser Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 I'm concerned about the introduction of roles that will occupy players without interacting with the round. These people who will be playing molemen are people would otherwise be playing cargo techs and security cadets and roboticists and bartenders... This is especially alarming because the format of the Talpi gameplay is based heavily on interaction within and between tribes - meaning it depends on having a bunch of players... who will spend 95% of their time digging rocks and infighting without ever seeing the glimmer of a manufactured floor tile. Obviously, yes, it draws from the ghost pool, but wouldn't it be enough to inspire some people not to play a round proper? And we don't have the numbers to be throwing that potential away. What are we gaining here, in exchange for what is lost? Also, how are they supposed to make trades with the station if they can't speak the same language? Is meaningful interaction between the station and the Talpi going to be gated behind the construction of a universal translator?
Hackie Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 That will only be a problem on initial release. Afterwards we will be fine. Communication is supposed to be non verbal, we can hold items and point meaning communication is certainly possible especially in trading. Depending on how it works out sign language could be used by certain tribe members.
BurgerBB Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 Let us not have another anthro animal race. Given how the asteroid is literally hard sand and rock, they shouldn't look like smooth skinned moles on earth combine with an inefficient human shape.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 I'm concerned about the introduction of roles that will occupy players without interacting with the round. These people who will be playing molemen are people would otherwise be playing cargo techs and security cadets and roboticists and bartenders... This is especially alarming because the format of the Talpi gameplay is based heavily on interaction within and between tribes - meaning it depends on having a bunch of players... who will spend 95% of their time digging rocks and infighting without ever seeing the glimmer of a manufactured floor tile. Obviously, yes, it draws from the ghost pool, but wouldn't it be enough to inspire some people not to play a round proper? And we don't have the numbers to be throwing that potential away. What are we gaining here, in exchange for what is lost? Also, how are they supposed to make trades with the station if they can't speak the same language? Is meaningful interaction between the station and the Talpi going to be gated behind the construction of a universal translator? The nature of randomness means that there will definatly be some rounds where the mole people do their own things. However, I understand the concern that this would develop into its own isolated mini-game. That is why the objectives that each mole tribe get can explicitly involve the station, such as the mole people needing supplies from it and trying to trade. There are also excellent ideas involving xenoarchaeology studying the creatures that I didn't even consider, which are very creative. Giving xenoarchaeologists a method of observing molemen would be fantastic. Giving them a soft-suit mole disguise to camouflage themselves as a mole creature for field expeditions would be amusing if it spouted pre-recorded messages like "HELLO I AM FRIEND." "HOW ARE THE GLOW SHROOMS TODAY." "HUMANS ARE FRIENDS." "GOOD SPACE WINDS TO YOU FRIEND." I think with good faith on behalf of the mole men such a thing would be a lot of fun for xenoarchaeology.
Butterrobber202 Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 They will speak with sign language right? Since in the void of space I doubt they develop proper audio organs
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) Mole people have three eyes but none of them work good. They're effectively short-sighted and deaf in the traditional sense. They can only speak their native language. If that makes interaction with the crew a COMPLETE pain in the ass then I think it could be possible to make a one-way communication by letting the crew translate basic into Talpii, either with a full translation or a device that spits out stock phrases like "I WANT TO TRADE" or "I AM FRIEND" or "GO AWAY OR WE'LL SHOOT" Their primary sense is echolocation which is their extreme version with inspiration from the IRL the Star Nosed Mole's own ability which is localized in its butt-hole lookin' nose. Dense science explanation: Talpi's bodies are covered in tiny sense receptors called Eimer's organs that let them feel their way around. They can detect and 'hear' the vibrations made by sound travel through the rock. Mechanically I cannot think of any method of representing this that isn't a huge pain in the butt (like a constant cloudy overlay) or a major investment in coding and time (like predator-style vision only available on objects on a solid surface) so it will have to just be represented through the language. EDIT: Another note on communication. If they can talk to you, you can emphasize with them, which removes their ethos of being a dismissed 'stone age primitive' native species. You can't effectively dismiss a Talpii as a particularly bright animal if he's standing there signing advanced theoretical physic equations at you. Edited February 27, 2018 by Marlon Phoenix
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 Let us not have another anthro animal race. Given how the asteroid is literally hard sand and rock, they shouldn't look like smooth skinned moles on earth combine with an inefficient human shape. I heavily considered making them look more alien like the vox. However if they are slouching icky aliens then they cannot interact with any clothes or most items not specifically made for them. That would sort of make trading with the station rather pointless since they would not need anything other than the metals. Convincing a moleman to hand over a xenoarchology artifact they dug up in exchange for an executive suit and some carrot fries is exactly the kind of light-hearted corporate exploitation we need.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 Also, how do they breathe? They don't. No spaceborn creatures breathe. Like carp, diona, space sharks, etc, their biology doesn't need it.
Lohikar Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 Also, how do they breathe? They don't. No spaceborn creatures breathe. Like carp, diona, space sharks, etc, their biology doesn't need it. So how do they generate biological energy? Cellular respiration requires Oxygen to work, but that's not available here.
Itanimulli Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 Being the one to sprite them, ofc I'm going to say "yes lets have these." However, it's because I can see a whole bunch of scenarios happening. Like security actually going into the mines. For once. Or the sudden appearance of some pro-xeno-activist trying to make a weird documentary who ends up dying tragically because they forgot the talpi don't breathe air. If they themselves can bore through rock, I can see the miners themselves finding ways to pair-up with the talpi in order to secure artifacts more easily. Or just mine in general. I can potentially see a particularly crafty antag donning a spess-suit and ventureing into the mines to seek the protection of the mowel peepulls. All in all I just see so much potential. I like it. Also. Maybe they breath via internal bacteria, which are grown inside of them via chewed-up, fementing glowshrooms. And these just provide the oxygen they need. Problem solved.
BurgerBB Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 Let us not have another anthro animal race. Given how the asteroid is literally hard sand and rock, they shouldn't look like smooth skinned moles on earth combine with an inefficient human shape. I heavily considered making them look more alien like the vox. However if they are slouching icky aliens then they cannot interact with any clothes or most items not specifically made for them. That would sort of make trading with the station rather pointless since they would not need anything other than the metals. Convincing a moleman to hand over a xenoarchology artifact they dug up in exchange for an executive suit and some carrot fries is exactly the kind of light-hearted corporate exploitation we need. At least make them more ugly or fearsome.
JMJ_99 Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 Also, how do they breathe? They don't. No spaceborn creatures breathe. Like carp, diona, space sharks, etc, their biology doesn't need it. So how do they generate biological energy? Cellular respiration requires Oxygen to work, but that's not available here. I suggest Anaerobic Repspiration, its regular cellular respiration minus the oxygen with lactic acid as an extra product.
Butterrobber202 Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 Also, how do they breathe? They don't. No spaceborn creatures breathe. Like carp, diona, space sharks, etc, their biology doesn't need it. So how do they generate biological energy? Cellular respiration requires Oxygen to work, but that's not available here. Could come up with some bullshit about bluespace and phoron. Uhmmm.... When a mole person consumes phoron ore and nearly any other metallic ore, their rather large Mitochondria ignites the phoron to burn the other compound into a grainy, powder like version of ATP which is later burned for biological energy. This form of ATP is stored within a special organ called the Gucole, which functions as a gigantic fat cell.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 Being the one to sprite them, ofc I'm going to say "yes lets have these." However, it's because I can see a whole bunch of scenarios happening. Like security actually going into the mines. For once. Or the sudden appearance of some pro-xeno-activist trying to make a weird documentary who ends up dying tragically because they forgot the talpi don't breathe air. If they themselves can bore through rock, I can see the miners themselves finding ways to pair-up with the talpi in order to secure artifacts more easily. Or just mine in general. I can potentially see a particularly crafty antag donning a spess-suit and ventureing into the mines to seek the protection of the mowel peepulls. All in all I just see so much potential. I like it. Also. Maybe they breath via internal bacteria, which are grown inside of them via chewed-up, fementing glowshrooms. And these just provide the oxygen they need. Problem solved. Your idea is a great one. Thank you! Fermenting glowshrooms in their guts for cell energy is a great way to reasonably explain their ability to live in a vacuum. It would also be easy to just add this logic to other creatures like carp, who turn biomatter into energy.
Skull132 Posted March 2, 2018 Posted March 2, 2018 Well. I read the thread. And I'm of mixed opinions. First, let's address the actual concept of the race. I find conflicting claims about their essence. This is claimed somewhere down the line: They're not LITERALLY moles. That is their ethos. And yet. Talpi are a race of space-dwelling, bipedal mole people that live in the asteroid field of Tau Cet. They are 1.6 meters tall on average and are covered in earth-toned fur. They have clawed hands and feet. Their eyes and ears are small and underdeveloped and they are incredibly short-sighted and hard of hearing. However their sense of touch is extremely well-adapted, making up for these deficiencies. They form small tribes in asteroids and worship The Great Star Nosed One. They are formed into small tribes operating as communes. In the distant past they traveled between asteroids by clinging to migrating space carp herds. In recent decades a few encounters with spaceborn factions has let them gain the knowledge to build 'Carp Carriages' - metal boxes towed by domesticated carp. Because of their awful eyesight and hearing their ability to reverse-engineer anything is hilariously inept. Because they can mine for resources with their specialized claws they often try to trade resources with any local station or ship that they find, trying to get weapons and armor to fight or bribe other tribes. They domesticate carp and carps are non-hostile to them. I guess they're not literally moles, but they are, quite literally, mole people. It's a whole lot more than their ethos. Which is irksome to me. Because they're effectively mole people mixed with an ancient Roman aesthetic. All of which is a bit too blatant to be referred to as, "Skillfully executed." They're not really creative, nor are they even too interesting if you manage to unpack those two truths. Their design, in my opinion, also goes counter to their purpose. Playing this race too close to humans, which they are, will make them not alien enough. The crew species are fine being friendly and warm looking, they're effectively regular Joe's you go to work with. So it makes sense, from a gameplay perspective, to have them as something familiar. But if you want to introduce a new conflict vector and make that also look human, then I don't really see that decision being a good one, unless one very specific angle is played up. So, in my opinion, they would benefit from being actually alien. It would make them this strange new thing, that you can't just hand weapons and armour to; that you can't just talk or communicate with. That you need to figure out how to work around, even from a very surface-based look. They would benefit immensely from being both visually and mechanically incompatible with the crew/human-like species. Another note for discussion is their role in the setting and round structure. And that's definitely something I'd be interested in giving a shot. It might introduce a persistent unknown factor into gameplay that'll liven up old formulas. But again, I think this decision would be better framed by the species being actually different.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted March 3, 2018 Posted March 3, 2018 Well. I read the thread. And I'm of mixed opinions. First, let's address the actual concept of the race. I find conflicting claims about their essence. This is claimed somewhere down the line: They're not LITERALLY moles. That is their ethos. And yet. Talpi are a race of space-dwelling, bipedal mole people that live in the asteroid field of Tau Cet. They are 1.6 meters tall on average and are covered in earth-toned fur. They have clawed hands and feet. Their eyes and ears are small and underdeveloped and they are incredibly short-sighted and hard of hearing. However their sense of touch is extremely well-adapted, making up for these deficiencies. They form small tribes in asteroids and worship The Great Star Nosed One. They are formed into small tribes operating as communes. In the distant past they traveled between asteroids by clinging to migrating space carp herds. In recent decades a few encounters with spaceborn factions has let them gain the knowledge to build 'Carp Carriages' - metal boxes towed by domesticated carp. Because of their awful eyesight and hearing their ability to reverse-engineer anything is hilariously inept. Because they can mine for resources with their specialized claws they often try to trade resources with any local station or ship that they find, trying to get weapons and armor to fight or bribe other tribes. They domesticate carp and carps are non-hostile to them. I guess they're not literally moles, but they are, quite literally, mole people. It's a whole lot more than their ethos. Which is irksome to me. Because they're effectively mole people mixed with an ancient Roman aesthetic. All of which is a bit too blatant to be referred to as, "Skillfully executed." They're not really creative, nor are they even too interesting if you manage to unpack those two truths. Their design, in my opinion, also goes counter to their purpose. Playing this race too close to humans, which they are, will make them not alien enough. The crew species are fine being friendly and warm looking, they're effectively regular Joe's you go to work with. So it makes sense, from a gameplay perspective, to have them as something familiar. But if you want to introduce a new conflict vector and make that also look human, then I don't really see that decision being a good one, unless one very specific angle is played up. So, in my opinion, they would benefit from being actually alien. It would make them this strange new thing, that you can't just hand weapons and armour to; that you can't just talk or communicate with. That you need to figure out how to work around, even from a very surface-based look. It may seem 'petty' to focus on clothes as an important part of interactions, but it's a very clear and immediate way of distinguishing your character, and is undeniably important. They would benefit immensely from being both visually and mechanically incompatible with the crew/human-like species. Another note for discussion is their role in the setting and round structure. And that's definitely something I'd be interested in giving a shot. It might introduce a persistent unknown factor into gameplay that'll liven up old formulas. But again, I think this decision would be better framed by the species being actually different. Thank you for responding so quickly, boss. I guess they're not literally moles, but they are, quite literally, mole people. It's a whole lot more than their ethos. The same is true of all of our races. Unathi are not literally crocodiles, but they have all the features of crocodiles. Tajara are not literally cats, but they have all the features of cats. I have to disagree with the idea that they should look more alien because that would just be picking another terrestrial animal or scifi concept. When we look to non-bipedal aliens and their history on other servers the effort to make aliens arbitrarily "alien" does little to reinforce their playstyle or aesthetic. Are Resomi considered a success because of their unique anatomy, or was their implementation better and worse in their other aspects? Are the Vox inherently a skillfully executed race due to their alien appearance? Is visuals and item restrictions more important than execution and playstyle? I do not think they are. Mechanically, I do not think that level of investment in spriting and coding a fully unique race is an area that would improve a non-crew species. Especially when you consider that getting special clothes and accessories is a major drive for players, as evidence by the plethora of custom items. If Talpi cannot wear denim jeans and humans cannot wear talpi loincloths, that removes a large chunk of motivation for interacting with each other. Clothes and accessories are by far the most cherished items players possess right underneath weapons. Which is irksome to me. Because they're effectively mole people mixed with an ancient Roman aesthetic.|That is an interesting interpretation. I am actually striving for heavy meso-american vibes mixed with their nomadic lifestyles. These societies are great models for fictional civilizations that lack metalsmithing but are not lacking in creative ways to overcome that. Hence their special crafting abilities revolving around unique methods of harvesting and creating things out of carp. But if you want to introduce a new conflict vector and make that also look human, then I don't really see that decision being a good one, unless one very specific angle is played up. One of the most important aspects of the Talpi is that they usually need to get things from the station or work with the station in some regards. The catch is that they are physically incapable of communicating with the station unless the crew is able to jerry-rig a work-around, such as a nymph or synthetic translator as a middle man, or even just trying to come to an understanding through actions and context clues. So, in my opinion, they would benefit from being actually alien. It would make them this strange new thing, that you can't just hand weapons and armour to; that you can't just talk or communicate with. That you need to figure out how to work around, even from a very surface-based look. The language barrier creates that obstacle. It would be incredibly bizarre for the crew to just and over weapons and armor to non-crew species. Security already has a panic attack if a xenoarchaeologist walks around with an ancient katana that they dug up. Cargo unilaterally selling the Talpi a bunch of guns and armor under the noses of the rest of the station is a possibility I admit but we can combine the viewpoints of that being an inherently interesting roleplay situation on top of the possibility of us restricting certain items that we do not want to see in the hands of the Talpi. Just restricting them from wearing hardsuits or voidsuits (thanks to the tail ) prevents them from creating a handicap for their 2 primary weaknesses to burning and pressure. Another note for discussion is their role in the setting and round structure. And that's definitely something I'd be interested in giving a shot. It might introduce a persistent unknown factor into gameplay that'll liven up old formulas. But again, I think this decision would be better framed by the species being actually different. They have a special niche ability to craft unique items, weapons, tools, and clothes. They can domesticate and breed carp. They can dig for resources and explore the asteroid at great speed. They cannot understand crew due to their language of echolocation, don't have access to technology, and are constantly competing between one another so that the crew can have conflicting information about Talpi intentions as the 2 tribes interact with them in different ways. I do believe that the foundation laid down allows rounds they are present in to swerve wildly in different directions from one another without letting them become a comfortable, familiar sight. I am worried that other methods of making them reach a new goalpost for uniqueness or alien-ness would start to become obtuse for players as well as coders.
Azande Posted March 7, 2018 Posted March 7, 2018 Why not de-humanize/mole them by giving them a spaceworm-like head for digging instead of a human head.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted March 7, 2018 Posted March 7, 2018 Large claw hands. kill stuff in a few swipes. Mole people are not meant to have innate abilities that make them superior melee fighters. Let's not just write off the miners.
AmoryBlaine Posted March 9, 2018 Posted March 9, 2018 Large claw hands. kill stuff in a few swipes. Mole people are not meant to have innate abilities that make them superior melee fighters. Let's not just write off the miners. Sorry, I mean carp. It should be good at fighting carp. Because seriously Voidsuit Sec get fucked easily. Busted legs, arms, ect.
Fire and Glory Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 Sorry, I mean carp. It should be good at fighting carp. Because seriously Voidsuit Sec get fucked easily. Busted legs, arms, ect. Maybe they shouldn't? It would reinforce that these are semi-vulnerable tribal moles after all. If they want to fight carp migrations they should bring friends, or be robust, or just not fight, etc. Instead of having much innate advantage against them. That does give me a thought, though. What happens to injured moles? Are they just fukt or what?
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