[2 dismissal] Remove Extended from Secret Rotation [Binned: 19/03/2018]

[BurgerBB]

Why is this a thing? I understand that it's a HRP server but I don't think I've ever heard someone go "Oh, I'm glad it was extended that round!" in a secret round.

If people want extended, they'll vote extended. I vote extended sometimes.

The RP during an known extended round is much different than the rp during an unknown extended round. I find the quality of RP during a known extended round is much much higher given how most players don't have to worry about dealing with potential chaos.

[LanceLynxx]

The point behind extended being in secret is exactly so people DON'T know to expect it, and therefore don't change their behaviour because of metagaming.

This way to keep people act as they normally would as any normal secret.

If the RP is worse during secret extended, it's more of a playerbase issue than the mode itself.

[MattAtlas]

The point behind extended being in secret is exactly so people DON'T know to expect it, and therefore don't change their behaviour because of metagaming.

This way to keep people act as they normally would as any normal secret.

If the RP is worse during secret extended, it's more of a playerbase issue than the mode itself.

 

You see, the problem with that is people will always expect a secret gamemode and not extended.

[Coalf]

The point behind extended being in secret is exactly so people DON'T know to expect it, and therefore don't change their behaviour because of metagaming.

This way to keep people act as they normally would as any normal secret.

If the RP is worse during secret extended, it's more of a playerbase issue than the mode itself.

 

You see, the problem with that is people will always expect a secret gamemode and not extended.

You shouldn't be "Expecting" anything, no matter what round it is you should act like it's extended during secret, unless you're an antag of course.

[MattAtlas]

The point behind extended being in secret is exactly so people DON'T know to expect it, and therefore don't change their behaviour because of metagaming.

This way to keep people act as they normally would as any normal secret.

If the RP is worse during secret extended, it's more of a playerbase issue than the mode itself.

 

You see, the problem with that is people will always expect a secret gamemode and not extended.

You shouldn't be "Expecting" anything, no matter what round it is you should act like it's extended during secret, unless you're an antag of course.

 

If people vote secret they will expect antags no matter what you tell them. They voted secret because they want antags, so they'll expect there to be antags. You can expect a round to have antags without metagaming too.

[Butterrobber202]

Always will agree with this. I voted secret because I wanted Antags. If I want extended I’ll just vote extended.

[LanceLynxx]

You see, the problem with that is people will always expect a secret gamemode and not extended.

You shouldn't be "Expecting" anything, no matter what round it is you should act like it's extended during secret, unless you're an antag of course.

 

If people vote secret they will expect antags no matter what you tell them. They voted secret because they want antags, so they'll expect there to be antags. You can expect a round to have antags without metagaming too.

 

They might WANT something.

They shouldn't EXPECT anything.

You should play like it is another normal day until antags get confirmed. Changing behavior depending on game mode is hallmark of meta-gaming;

How can you expect antags without metagaming, if antags are not IC knowledge for anyone????

[Arrow768]

As mentioned previously, the point of secret is that you dont know what to expect.

It can be just a normal round, or there can be antags.

Its a secret.

If you want action, you can always vote for a specific gamemode. Then action is guaranteed.

Alternative voting systems that would take that into account have been suggested but dismissed in the past.

[Bauser]

Voting for specific gamemodes is busted because there are so many variants (A-type of antag, B-type of antag, C-type of antag, A+B antags, A+C antags, B+C antags, D-type of antag! B+D! A+D! D+C!) that it's impossible for any of them to win a vote even though people overwhelmingly want SOME antag presence rather than extended or even the possibility of extended (implied by the secret gamemode).

Make the vote just be:

1) Extended

2) Threat (Random round type OTHER than extended)

3) Secret (Random round type INCLUDING extended)

[BurgerBB]

As mentioned previously, the point of secret is that you dont know what to expect.

It can be just a normal round, or there can be antags.

Its a secret.

If you want action, you can always vote for a specific gamemode. Then action is guaranteed.

Alternative voting systems that would take that into account have been suggested but dismissed in the past.

 

Then perhaps a voting overhaul is in order. The problem with voting for a specific gamemode is like voting for a third party in the US election.

[keinto]

Here is a problem. People - particularly command staff - often like to run events that require some coordination such as a big party at the bar, or some sort of contest in the holodeck during extended. This is not the case when the gamemode is voted secret because they know their event which again, takes time and effort to get together, will probably have to be canceled due to antag actions.

The reason extended should be removed from secret is that when secret rounds turn out to be extended there are no antags to make the round interesting nor are there people trying to run their little mini event for the rest of the crew. Every time a round that was hectic turns out to be secret extended I am disappointed (and you should be as well) because this means a lot of bad RP took place by people who cannot play believable characters with believable actions.

All extended rounds should be boring as fuck unless there was an accident or a station hazard event happened, and that's when people doing their own events come in.

[BurgerBB]

Here is a problem. People - particularly command staff - often like to run events that require some coordination such as a big party at the bar, or some sort of contest in the holodeck during extended. This is not the case when the gamemode is voted secret because they know their event which again, takes time and effort to get together, will probably have to be canceled due to antag actions.

The reason extended should be removed from secret is that when secret rounds turn out to be extended there are no antags to make the round interesting nor are there people trying to run their little mini event for the rest of the crew. Every time a round that was hectic turns out to be secret extended I am disappointed (and you should be as well) because this means a lot of bad RP took place by people who cannot play believable characters with believable actions.

All extended rounds should be boring as fuck unless there was an accident or a station hazard event happened, and that's when people doing their own events come in.

 

Exactly this. I don't want to put effort into doing a roleplay session if possible craziness happens. I can't take the game seriously when I'm hearing torture rp over comms and I'm trying to talk about how my day went.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Plan your event anyway. Sparking a pizza party and having everyone picked off by changelings or vampires sounds like a blast. These do not usually take that long to assemble. I have hastily assembled pizza parties in under 15 minutes during revolution rounds, and the laughably out of touch method of improving morale either ends in a lot of awkward shoulder patting or a total bloodbath.

Antags throwing a wrench in the works is the entire point of the game.

[AmoryBlaine]

For me it's the opposite of having RP interrupted, it's being stuck on a wild goose chase that doesn't even exist in the first place. Nothing worse for Sec than to go into a round only to find out after 2 hours of patrolling and generally being bored that it was extended and you could have done whatever you wanted. Secret Extended is just robbing of expectations and getting nothing in return.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I do agree with amoryblaine to an extent. As funny as it is to have security circle Jawdat like a bunch of starving hawks and vultures during extended because he keeps spamming announcements with RP-rev styled communist propaganda, extended secret can often be disappointing. However it is necessary because you don't KNOW if there are antags. If extended was removed then you'd always know there were antags. While I am personally horrified when I realize an hour in that it's extended and do everything in my power to reach cryo before I impulsively slam my laptop lid shut, it's unfair to want to strip extended from the people who actually enjoy it. Secret unites lovers of extended and lovers of non-extended together in one game mode. If you take this compromise gamble away we'll have a lot more extended rounds as our community is torn asunder, and that would lower the playercount because extended is not our draw.

[BurgerBB]

Plan your event anyway. Sparking a pizza party and having everyone picked off by changelings or vampires sounds like a blast. These do not usually take that long to assemble. I have hastily assembled pizza parties in under 15 minutes during revolution rounds, and the laughably out of touch method of improving morale either ends in a lot of awkward shoulder patting or a total bloodbath.

Antags throwing a wrench in the works is the entire point of the game.

 

That rarely happens though. A quartermaster planned a pizza party but the head of personal got kidnapped and there was nothing but torture RP on comms. Two of the people in the party were friends with them so it was like "How can we party."

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Party anyway. Share a long awkward silence and don't touch the pizza, just hover around it. Seize your own initiative.

[BurgerBB]

Party anyway. Share a long awkward silence and don't touch the pizza, just hover around it. Seize your own initiative.

 

that isn't fun though in any way shape or form unless you enjoy playing d e p r e s s io n RP

especially when it's part of an incredibly depressing larger issue regarding crew interaction. 4 antags rping with 1 crew member over comms is like a kid being locked in his room hearing the sounds of children playing in the distance.

[keinto]

I think extended would be voted more often if people didn't have to deal with it during secret.

[K0NFL1QT]

I voted secret because I wanted Antags. If I want extended I’ll just vote extended.

 

This for truth.

[MattAtlas]

You shouldn't be "Expecting" anything, no matter what round it is you should act like it's extended during secret, unless you're an antag of course.

 

If people vote secret they will expect antags no matter what you tell them. They voted secret because they want antags, so they'll expect there to be antags. You can expect a round to have antags without metagaming too.

 

They might WANT something.

They shouldn't EXPECT anything.

You should play like it is another normal day until antags get confirmed. Changing behavior depending on game mode is hallmark of meta-gaming;

How can you expect antags without metagaming, if antags are not IC knowledge for anyone????

 

You voted secret because you want antags. You can play the entire round without metagaming but just wanting antags. Is it completely unfathomable that someone can want antags but also not metagame? No, it isn't.

If I wanted to play a round with no antags I'd just vote extended, not secret.

>Changing behavior depending on game mode is hallmark of meta-gaming;

Please tell me where I said that you should change your behavior based on gamemode. I said nothing like that. What I did say is you vote secret for antags, not for extended.

[Coalf]

Let me drop some edutainment on you.

By voting secret you consent to every gamemode in secret.

You don't vote for traitor, you don't vote for vampire and you don't vote for extended, you vote to be suprised, the thing about secret is that you are suprised by a gamemode, you consent to being suprised even if it is something you might not enjoy.

 

 

Look at this, there is an ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE FUCKING CHANCE that you will get ANYTHING else but extended.

I don't like ninja, I don't like wizard, I despise changeling and I dislike malf.

Yet I still vote secret, because I want to be suprised.

[Faris]

Moving this to the policy sub-forum. Game modes and such fall under the administrators as opposed to the developers.

[MattAtlas]

Let me drop some edutainment on you.

By voting secret you consent to every gamemode in secret.

You don't vote for traitor, you don't vote for vampire and you don't vote for extended, you vote to be suprised, the thing about secret is that you are suprised by a gamemode, you consent to being suprised even if it is something you might not enjoy.

 

at this, there is an ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE FUCKING CHANCE that you will get ANYTHING else but extended.

I don't like ninja, I don't like wizard, I despise changeling and I dislike malf.

Yet I still vote secret, because I want to be suprised.

 

>By voting secret you consent to every gamemode in secret.

This doesn't mean I want extended in secret. It also doesn't mean extended should be a guaranteed chance either.

>You don't vote for traitor, you don't vote for vampire and you don't vote for extended, you vote to be suprised, the thing about secret is that you are suprised by a gamemode, you consent to being suprised even if it is something you might not enjoy.

So what? People vote extended because they want a random kind of antag, not because they want a random thrown in extended round that turns into a 2 hour CT call. Secret extended surprises nobody, it's just a complete annoyance thrown in to be ""surprising"" when it is about as surprising as finding cookies in a cookie box.

>Look at this, there is an ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE FUCKING CHANCE that you will get ANYTHING else but extended.

So there is a chance, and it means extended can be rolled. And people do not want extended rolled. Which is literally what this suggestion is. Despite extended having an "absolutely massive fucking chance to not be rolled", it apparently doesn't stop the 2+ secret extended round streaks. Which are arguably not fun.

I don't get why this argument gets so much passive aggressiveness from either side. It's completely unneeded and it is quite literally just removing a gamemode from one rotation that can still be voted for - does that guarantee so much passive aggressiveness? It doesn't.

[Coalf]

I was going to take it point by point but there is way too many repeating arguments.

1: "People expect antags and don't do exciting stuff"

Some people are paranoid and their own paranoia cripples their enjoyment of the game. This is a problem with those players, not extended being in secret.

Stop being worried about winning the game, take what you're dealt.

2: "I don't want to put effort into roleplay when an antag is around being silly"

Exactly what JB said, antags interrupting the common day on the station is exactly what this game is about, this isn't about the station preparing for 2 hours to stomp the antag.

And if someone doesn't put effort into their RP just because of a gamemode, well that's just plain wrong.

This is exactly how "He didn't put enough RP into killing me" issues rise, because one person thinks they don't need to try because of the gamemode. And I remember quite distinctly everyone in this thread had an issue with this atleast once.

3: "People vote secret for antags"

I don't vote secret for antags, Lynx doesn't, Arrow doesn't, does this mean we don't belong to "The People"?

Don't generalize.

4: "We're just removing extended from the rotation."

First they came for Extended, and I did not speak out—

Because I did not like Extended.

Then they came for the Ninja, and I did not speak out—

Because I did not like the Ninja.

Then they came for the Changeling, and I did not speak out—

Because I did not like Changeling.

Then they came for traitor—and there was no one left to speak for me.