Chada1

This is still in the concept stage, but I have started working on it and trying to figure out all the things I'd need to do to get it off the ground. This'd split the current 'borg sprites into three different categories, the categories being: Light, Heavy, Flying. _______ * Light: Planned features Currently this is just the base 'borg, so I don't have anything locked in or out to it, think of it kinda like the baseline IPC but for 'borgs. I may give it bonuses later but rn I just have no clue what to give it, but it'd be the v. light looking chassis we currently have. The Basic, HD-MAD, Landmate and the Arachnotron are four. * Heavy: Planned features There's one solid feature I have planned for the Heavy category. The sprites that'd go in here include the v. loved new Treadheads and Treadmates, the Heavys (OF COURSE ?) and the other v. large looking sprites. in-built magboots: (Might be re-flavored as magnetic tracts or something but it does the same thing, slightly slower, immune to gravity effects including falling into holes.) * Flying: Planned features This is where the real differences start right now, because I'm likely going to make the Flying category actually fly. Flying: All of the bonuses of using a jetpack but they get them by default -- this comes at the cost of having a v. weak armor plating and probably other things I don't know yet. This includes the Tau Drones, the SD-MAD, the Toileto-Trons and any other sprite that floats. Flying would be able to traverse Z-levels, would be immune to falling (IF THEY HAVE POWER) and all of the other jetpack'y stuff. But yes, when they lose power, they'd fall. Don't lose power while off of the ground. _______ One worry that's been brought to me so far is about custom 'borgo sprites, I'd likely make them function the same way they do now, except they can choose any category they'd like, the thingo here tho, is I'd be placing a lot of trust in the Custom 'borg players to only choose categories that fit their sprite, if you have a sprite that floats, don't pick light/heavy, if you have a sprite that doesn't float, don't pick flying. Etc. There's no ETA on this gameplay rework but I'm planning it and I have worked on it some. I won't be adding anymore categories because they need to have sprites to correspond to them, and following my sprite rework the sprites we have only correspond to these three and I have no intention of adding or removing any we currently have. ? If you have any ideas for the planned features, please post them, if they're really good and sane to implement I'll include them. ?

An idea is instead of a set of static objectives at round start that you just complete, what if when you completed an objective, it assigned you another one? This'd make it so the Antags using them don't just complete the 1-3 objectives they have, then just p. much hit a stonewall in objectives. ? As for what the objectives would be, I have no clue

I didn't say I knew the magical solution tho (And there might be one, we just have no clue what it is), I was just pointing out that the draft system has problems too. ATM I think the best solution posted in the thread is to keep the draft but like Greenboi said, add a warning in the gamemode vote area. This at least makes it v. visible for new players that if they vote, they might be antag, so absolutely noone can say they didn't opt into it in some way.

I think this could be p. great, it's not that obvious to newer players that it does this.

I understand the point of the draft increasing the pool but like I think it has a p. big flaw. The big problem with using it as a way to expand the pool is if someone doesn't want to improve at playing Antag (Or any number of other activities), they won't improve at playing it, or if they do, it's a v. weak improvement, they'll do the bare minimum required in the round and/or cryo or anything else. Genuine improvement doesn't just come from playing a thing, it comes from enthusiasm to improve and learn a thing, sink or swim (the mindset being used here) doesn't actually work when it comes to improvement, if you throw a person into a pool, they'll frantically do the bare minimum required to stay afloat and then use it to get out of the pool. If you ease a person into a pool and show them how to enjoy it, they'll practice it every day until they're at least decent or great at it. The few times the familiarity from being forced into a thing inspires genuine improvement it's from a person changing their own mindset towards it, rather than the 'sink or swim' approach forcing them into it changing their mindset, usually it just scares them away for good. If we want to solve both of these problems we need a different solution because forcing players into the roles isn't going to make them good antags.

I plan to implement afew things in the future that brings just about all of this into effect, I won't remove the medical/rescue syringe since they already have a hypospray and the I'm p. sure you're actually supposed to store medicine you can't dispense at will (in your borgo hypospray) in that syringe, like dex+ (For rescue) as an example. Bluespace bag I'll look into. As for the magnetic tract thingo, I'm currently working on a PR to implement Chassis types (Light, Heavy, Flying) and split up appropriate sprites across them, and the magboot idea is going to be the key feature of the Heavy type. I have no clue when this PR will be done tho.

I think Idris would've made sense as a quartermaster with the banking detail, since it's by and large p. much assisting the HoP with managing the cash flow and stuff, but it's not really much of an issue to see that go too.

I plan to go through and re-tool most of the 'borgo modules sometime in the near future and I'd likely go ahead and add this when I did, so ?™️

I think ballistics are in general more problematic (Or have historically been more problematic) than lasers because they embed in wounds, first, and then second on movement cause more organ damage and broken bones, if the broken bones weren't already there, which also do this. It's like a organ damage cascade from both the bullet wounds and the broken bones. Which can't be removed by the Antag and will lead to death, even on the new brainmed system IIRC. @Roostercat These laser weapons wouldn't have to be as strong as the current laser carbines as they're not competing with the current lethal weaponry security has, it could be a bit weaker and so it could take 7-8 shots to disable an IPC and be muuuch less lethal for the Antags overall just on the basis of not embedding and all of that nonsense. Not to mention Security in this system wouldn't have ready access to it, it'd have to be vetted (Authorized) by alert level or the heads and stuff like that.

Hello, yes Fossils are a thing but they have no mechanical purpose, so they're p. much just items you can find. There were plant and animal fossils IIRC. The Fossil satchel can be used to hold them just like an extra bag, which can actually save space for you if you take one and dig up a lot of fossils, the problem is that there's no actual purpose behind them aside from RP.

Oof I'd like to join too. ?

Ty and the floaty drone is staying. I had to update it to the new style, tho. In the sprite list it's known as the 'TC Drone' short for 'Tau Ceti Drone'. Pun intended. ?

I don't have any intention of expanding this for the moment, and it seems this rework has been entirely incontroversal to the point that noone feels the need to submit negative feedback about it, so this can be locked and archived I'd say. I hope everyone enjoys the new stuff, and I really enjoyed making it.

This'd probably go in the lore canonization forum instead of here but amazing catch, this has been on the wiki for 6+ years without being noticed by anyone ? PS: Mods will shift the thread around fir you if I'm right so don't worry about that.

I'm extremely excited for this, doxx ?

I'm a fan too. ?

The second PR is merged. Have fun with the new animations, (New walking animations for the old legacy borgo sprites, all spiked and treaded sprites, Basic, Landmate, Treadmate, Treadhead, all have new ones). Arachnotrons (Borgo Mega spiderdrones), the new Drone overlays, using the arachnotron overlays and fitting them to the old drones (Maint. Drones, Cons. Drones, Mining Drones) all have updated overlays. I've had some bug reports regarding the TC drone overlay being ill fitting so when I have internet again I'll return to fix that too.

Alright I'm going to consider this app closed and have it archived, thank you for your interest Wezzy. ?

Alright the next stage of the rework is over with, the arachnotrons are fully finished, and the drones have new overlays and small sprite adjustments, now they glow a bit more. A lot of the older legacy 'borg sprites, the basic, landmate, and treadmate series have movement animations now too, and I also added a movement animation to the new treadhead series. I decided to pull the Repo-Icarus-Drone series out of the available sprite pool, it doesn't match the new sprites anymore and I decided I don't want to put in the time to fix it up. This second PR is moving into the review stage.

I have some good news and I have some bad news, we will be getting this conceptual spiderborg resprite, but it won't be in this PR. It'll be a little bit after the rework goes live. To see the PR: Go here. It looks really good, though! https://imgur.com/sfQWDFx <= example of it in action with sci/jani colors. https://i.imgur.com/OPBJ9NO.gifv <= example of it in action with engi colors. I plan to give it the same scuttle animation drones have and to also try to update the drones to their overlay, so that it looks more spider-like and glows in the same way. The other, updated spider 'borgs will p. much be replaced by these.

That's true but if you're playing an antag mode as antag vs antag you're probably not going to make a fun round anyhoo. Just the AI not being under Crew control makes it helpful for an Antag even without subversion/etc, it means more than likely it's not going to help lock you down. ? That coupled with it being antagonistic/etc will be a really big help usually, and if the Malf does get destroyed the 'borgs are still lawless and can do whatever they want to do (Usually going to be to survive and help the Antag) so it's still p. positive for the round.

Ideally the Malf AI and the other antags coordinate to some degree, the main problem in malf rounds when it's solo is that the AI and Stationbounds in general shine in giving utility to a round, and not in driving tension in them, and yet they're put into a position where they're supposed to drive tension and stuff without any scaling (2-3 'borgs max regardless of the Station population, it's the same at 20 crew and 80 crew) and with just really powerful, potentially round-destroying abilities that don't add a whole lot aside from escalating 1>100 in three clicks. P. much unless the AI and 'borgs are completely in sync on the gimmick and are VERY loud it's p. darn hard to do a good malf round with a compelling progression/etc This is p. much why I think being in combination rounds nearly solely will make the Malf able to just help the other Antags and play around them to help drive up tension instead of trying to do it with 2 'borgs and and themselves in a round of like, 70 people. It should turn out better.

On request of Wezzy, the Heavy and Spiderborg spritelines have been re-added and re-tuned to fit the new system, though I have the idea to alter the Spiderborg line to be more akin to giant, bulkier Drones than the monstrocity they are now. There are multicolored versions of the spider borgs and they have a new, much better overlay than what they used to have. But I still kinda don't like them much.... https://i.imgur.com/33shHsJ.gifv <= See this gif here for the new overlay. The rework may be merged soon:tm:

When we see malf AI in multi antag modes, it should be a loooot more fun.

Diona do need some fixes and nerfs but the solution to all of these problems isn't to nerf Nymphs into the ground. Many of them have to do with the actual gestalt and how they split. Edit: AND how they regenerate in general. Apparently they regrow limbs in 5 minutes? That's not good