BurgerBB Posted May 20, 2018 Posted May 20, 2018 I want the food system to be more modular. Basically it would be like how custom foods currently exist but more fleshed out. I want every fruit or vegetable to be cut. I want to be able to cut any vegetable into strips or diced/cubed. I want to be able to make stews and soups with diced vegetables. I want to slice tomatoes and put them on top of a patty I flattened after cutting up ground beef and squishing it together, then I want to put that on top of a bun that I made from shaped and cooked dough I made out of a mixing bowl. I want people to eat that burger and mechanically it will tell them how well made the burger was. It will tell the consumer that the burger was cooked well done, however the bun was slightly undercooked. I want a unathi to enjoy the taste of raw meat, while a skrell despises eating hard foods. I want a picky eater to be able to remove the tomatoes that I put on the burger. I want the sprites to correctly match the burger's contents. I want cooking food to be like secret chems, where only the expert chefs know how to cook everything perfectly. The cooking times and temperature for each item will be unknown, but variable based on it's contents. Cooking a perfect meal will take plenty of time and practice. The microwave will be the lazy option, where foods can automatically be cooked to a sub-par quality. The oven is where real food is made.
Ornias Posted May 20, 2018 Posted May 20, 2018 So... who's coding this? it's a suggestions board the whole point is you put in things you want other people to code
LanceLynxx Posted May 20, 2018 Posted May 20, 2018 So... who's coding this? it's a suggestions board the whole point is you put in things you want other people to code I'm all for this idea, but it's like my suggestion for Atmos upgrade https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=10394 It's a quite enormous undertaking.
BurgerBB Posted May 20, 2018 Author Posted May 20, 2018 So... who's coding this? Probably me once I'm done the custom Kinetic Accelerators
Scheveningen Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 You know what would be nice? If a mouse nibbling on a bit of food spread unique germs to it and make it very likely for the consumed food to spread a random disease to whoever ate it. It'd make virology more relevant at least. Likewise, I think the calculated food quality should also influence whether or not someone gets semi-potent buffs over a period of time or catches the space equivalent of salmonella because that steak wasn't cooked well enough.
Kaed Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 Oh no, you really are the new nanako. And now you've also set your eyes on reworking the kitchen. Well, I'll admit what we have now from her work is kind of hot pile of garbage full of spaghetti code, and it would be hard (but not technically impossible) to make it worse. I think if you want to undertake this, the biggest problem you'll have is that in the long run, right now, food is largely a completely irrelevant flavor (ha ha) to the game. Hunger doesn't mean anything except that you can't regain stamina if your hunger bar is completely tapped out. By extension, anything except a completely empty hunger bar has absolutely no bearing on the game. This is one of the main reasons the food system is the way it is. Because at the end of the day, all food is in this game is one of several dozen different sprites for a container with several of a dozen or so generic nutrition providing reagents that add numbers to your hunger bar with a couple words of flavor description so you can toddle off and continue your shift. You want to bring this much deep complexity to the food of this game, you have to make your food mean something beyond a few words of text. "But the roleplays' only carries you so far. If hunger remains the way it is now, most people who come to the kitchen and eat the fruits of your labor are just going to mumble 'thanks' at best and walk off. Food culture exists the way it does now because people need to eat. It's a vital, centerpiece to being alive as much as water and air are. And because they need to, they want to make it enjoyable. So I recommend you build some groundwork with a more complex hunger system that contains rewards and detriments based on what and how much you eat (without going so far as to cause organ failure for eating it too much trash food, mind you..), before you throw a bunch of modular food stuff in that people can spend ages on and feel depressed when one in every ten people at best even notices the difference between shoving a hot dog into their mouth that you microwaved in 30 seconds and an eating an expertly made BLT with horseradish sauce that you prepared over ten minutes.
Scheveningen Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 Oh no, you really are the new nanako. And now you've also set your eyes on reworking the kitchen. Seriously, what? What the fuck does that have to do with anything? You practically stated Burger is the current community boogeyman. Your alarmist attitude and overall aggression towards Burger due to the historical contentiousness of his contributions to this community is getting absolutely ridiculous. I've zero idea why you feel compelled to make this personal. This is one of the main reasons the food system is the way it is. Because at the end of the day, all food is in this game is one of several dozen different sprites for a container with several of a dozen or so generic nutrition providing reagents that add numbers to your hunger bar with a couple words of flavor description so you can toddle off and continue your shift. So, Burger wanting to diversify food to add to the character of the game and the nature of it being a roleplaying environment is somehow bad, because the game is as simplistic as it is? You need to stop posting on this forum board if the only thing that compels you to even contribute to discussion is to shit all over other people's ideas and their desire to contribute to the community's development.
Bauser Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 I would be very excited if something like this were to come to pass. Food and cooking have a lot of charm to me, and so it would be a great joy if our system reflected the love and nuance and personality that food can evoke. The potential here for deep, intricate cooking mechanics calls to mind (for me) the warm satisfaction and simple feeling of accomplishment from food in JRPGs (E.G. Final Fantasy XV) and other games inspired by that genre (E.G. Breath Of The Wild). These are works where culinary arts are treated as just that: an art. It's elevated and lets you really feel invested in the value of what you're creating. If executed effectively, this could be such a breath of fresh air for chef players. And quite honestly might make me play one. Mechanically speaking, I have only a few words of caution regarding any potential implementation. 1) Don't remove any existing recipes. What we have now is already a pretty diverse palate of interesting foods; it would be a shame if that were demolished to pave way for any possible replacement. 2) I am going to suggest exactly the opposite of what Kaed suggested. He says you need to make food more mechanically important in order for it to be valuable as a complex craft; I say the optional nature of high-quality foods is exactly what makes them creatively valuable. If the only way to perfectly sate hunger is to create perfectly executed & elaborate dishes, they cease to be special. It becomes formulaic. It is my hope that the benefit of creating great foods will be the joy of having great foods to eat. I think "the roleplays," as he puts it, really are quite enough.
Ornias Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 "But the roleplays' only carries you so far. this is exactly the kind of thinking that makes it carry so far we're a heavy roleplay server. 'the roleplays' should be the main thing that carries us anywhere, with everything else coming second. i agree with bauser - make it roleplay-only, and make it special. if a chef can find pleasure in building their own foods, then suddenly their variety is special, and any interactions you have with them will reflect that. also Does the food do organ damage? stfu. he made a less-than-optimal change, that he took steps to improve and eventually revert when people disliked it. if this is how you treat contributors, you don't deserve anything they produce.
Faris Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 I'm a little disappointed with certain comments here. I've issued warnings and deleted comments for some. This does not mean anyone that wasn't warned is off the hook. Any post after this one which is just a person being a dick to others or attacking others may get a forum ban, not just a warning.
Doxxmedearly Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 If you're willing to put the insane amount of work into this that it requires, hats off to you. This would be an incredible change.
Kaed Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 (edited) Well, here I thought I was making a humorous reference to nanakos kitchen code, but apparently I have people thinking I'm attacking Burger. I'm not shitting all over his idea, I think it's a good one. However I don't think despite what people are saying here, that just having the kitchen be roleplay only is all it should ever be. Right now the main effort and kitchen work is repetition, not finesse. It's not hard to do the recipes you just have to put the required ingredients in and press the button, possibly check back every so often to make sure it's not overheating in the oven. What you intend to put here is actual finesse work. There should be a tangible reward for putting a lot of effort into something. If I spend 10 minutes making the perfect sandwich, and someone eats it in five seconds before walking off and never talking for the rest of the shift, I'm going to be disappointed. I think a lot of people would be. Well made food should make people remember that they ate a great meal, compliment the chef because they feel great, recommend that other people eat there. And I don't think that you can rely on people to provide that kind of feedback if the game doesn't give them something to work with beyond 'you eat the sandwich' Doesn't even need to be a buff, it could be something as simple as an occasional message saying you feel great after that meal. But this is still a game. You can't have roleplay carry everything, because not everyone who comes in he's going to put in the effort if they don't get something back from it. You create things in the kitchen in the bar, and you provide your creations two other players. I don't know why people think that the creation should just have to stand on their own merits of the sprite that's provided to the player. Edited May 21, 2018 by Guest
Bauser Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 If you want people to know they had a great meal, use extra flavor text. That's why it's called "flavor text."
Butterrobber202 Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 dnivgybc Mate it was a light hearted ‘never gonna let you live this down joke’ I generally like burger and most of his PRs
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 What a bizarrely emotional topic??? Sounds good. Rebooting kitchen would be interesting? Is our system really that bad? Right now it just seems the ovens and fryers burn stuff within seconds.
BurgerBB Posted May 21, 2018 Author Posted May 21, 2018 dnivgybc Mate it was a light hearted ‘never gonna let you live this down joke’ I generally like burger and most of his PRs I remember calling you autistic in OOC for making these jokes. Maybe that's a sign to stop.
Skull132 Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 Well, here I thought I was making a humorous reference to nanakos kitchen code, but apparently I have people thinking I'm attacking Burger. For the sake of clarity. If you want to be a complete pedant about it, then you should be discussing the proposed idea and its implications/effects. Nothing else.
Coalf Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 Question, won't this require like a bucketload of sprites? Or how do you plan to do this visually?
Butterrobber202 Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 dnivgybc Mate it was a light hearted ‘never gonna let you live this down joke’ I generally like burger and most of his PRs I remember calling you autistic in OOC for making these jokes. Maybe that's a sign to stop. I dunno, calling me an autist is pretty common. but ok
Skull132 Posted May 21, 2018 Posted May 21, 2018 Question, won't this require like a bucketload of sprites? Or how do you plan to do this visually? If done properly. It'd only require a sprite or two per ingredient and a few sprites per base. Then you do layer magic and colour magic procedurally.
BurgerBB Posted May 22, 2018 Author Posted May 22, 2018 Question, won't this require like a bucketload of sprites? Or how do you plan to do this visually? A lot of the sprites could easily be simplified. All food could just use the same recolored sprite for diced, cubed, and sliced foods. There will need to be unique sprites for some very distinct foods, such as tomato slices and apple, slices, and lettuce slices.
Bauser Posted May 22, 2018 Posted May 22, 2018 If it happens, I'm willing to help with food sprites. Discord me if you want.
DatBerry Posted May 22, 2018 Posted May 22, 2018 Will this include pan frying and butter? If so you have my full support I'll even sprite for you (if you're willing to wait 5 years)
Bauser Posted May 23, 2018 Posted May 23, 2018 [mention]BurgerBB[/mention] Do you have a comprehensive plan for what functions you want to be able to perform with every ingredient? You mentioned slicing into strips and dicing into cubes, but I'm pretty sure the system you envision will need to incorporate many more possibilities, creating a complex web of branching paths, both in terms of what the food is and how it's prepared... In line with what DatBerry mentioned: what about different methods of cooking? Grilling versus frying versus baking? In other words, how much do you already know you're going to include?
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