AmoryBlaine Posted November 19, 2019 Posted November 19, 2019 I don't even get how it's a conflict of interest, given you aren't some sort of loyalty implanted specialist- you're just a guy that works in the Security field, with NT. If anything you'd likely being coming from a background in TCFL if you're new to TC, or not an ex-cop/military guy.
Zundy Posted November 19, 2019 Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) It's a conflict of interest because you'd be split between supporting Biesel or NT as the paramilitary arm of NT. Edited November 19, 2019 by Zundy
AmoryBlaine Posted November 19, 2019 Author Posted November 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Zundy said: It's a conflict of interest because you'd be split between supporting Biesel or NT as the paramilitary arm of NT. What about everyone else? It's a conflict of interest because you'd be split between supporting Biesel or your own life, or your actual job by deciding whether or not to be on-call. Everything is a conflict of interest, and it's about putting that aside, given this is volunteer work.
KingOfThePing Posted November 19, 2019 Posted November 19, 2019 NanoTrasen would never hire TCFL volunteers, no matter the department, period. Change my mind.
Brutishcrab51 Posted November 19, 2019 Posted November 19, 2019 Why would it be publicly acceptable for NanoTrasen to say that its security employees can't work with the Tau Ceti Foreign Legion because it would split their support. On the one hand, you have the Federal Republic of Biesel, a stellar nation. On the other hand, you have a private corporate entity. If we're going to passively say that NT can dictate the rights or activities of people, it should be reflected in lore articles and talks that they are dystopic and corporatocratic. If Biesel kowtows to NT, then it should be known that they bend over for a corporate entity. Not "yeah it happens sometimes but really guys we're an anti-corruption republic"
Carver Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 5 hours ago, KingOfThePing said: NanoTrasen would never hire TCFL volunteers, no matter the department, period. Change my mind. Agreed with this. It doesn't make terrible sense that it covers one department solely, and it happens to be the only department that actually benefits from any training offered by the TCFL.
Roostercat Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 +1, it does not make sense to me that TCFL volunteers cannot be sec because of loyalty issues when contractors who work for a different company can.
Nantei Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) Definitely agreed. I can't see much reason for this. Real life security companies giddily poach up people who have military backgrounds. If NT is in bed with TC I don't see why they would be opposed to having TCFL Volunteers on their security force. Contractors would absolutely have more reason to have a conflict of interest than a TCFL volunteer would. Edited November 20, 2019 by Nantei
Zundy Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 It's not a military background, you literally are working in a milita unit. That being said I wouldn't mind either way.
Doxxmedearly Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 I'd say I'd like to keep it because the last thing we need is more sec officers with military backgrounds/militia backgrounds/excuses to use military-grade equipment but honestly like almost every sec officer is like that anyway and we can't do much to stop it so it doesn't really matter from an in-round perspective.
MattAtlas Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 I have absolutely no interest in seeing off duty security characters roll up as TCFL. No.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 Dont soldiers usually become mercenaries AFTER their time served? How do you work 40 weeks between the two? What if you have conflicting deployment areas? Typically its a bad idea to Carthage your army and TC knows it. The tcfl is explicitly to counteract the leverage the NT mercenary army has over the republic. Filling it with NT security defuncts its primary modus operandi.
AmoryBlaine Posted November 20, 2019 Author Posted November 20, 2019 Just now, MattAtlas said: I have absolutely no interest in seeing off duty security characters roll up as TCFL. No. But you're okay seeing off shift engineers, bartenders, paramedics, ect?
MattAtlas Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, AmoryBlaine said: But you're okay seeing off shift engineers, bartenders, paramedics, ect? You'd be correct.
furrycactus Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 19 hours ago, Brutishcrab51 said: Why would it be publicly acceptable for NanoTrasen to say that its security employees can't work with the Tau Ceti Foreign Legion because it would split their support. On the one hand, you have the Federal Republic of Biesel, a stellar nation. On the other hand, you have a private corporate entity. If we're going to passively say that NT can dictate the rights or activities of people, it should be reflected in lore articles and talks that they are dystopic and corporatocratic. If Biesel kowtows to NT, then it should be known that they bend over for a corporate entity. Not "yeah it happens sometimes but really guys we're an anti-corruption republic" Do you even read the lore?
AmoryBlaine Posted November 20, 2019 Author Posted November 20, 2019 If you're incorporating TCFL into your character, as any dept, there's an implication that they're gonna have some combat capability. We can already have off-duty engineers and parameds come aboard as TCFL, hasn't changed any characters into total dipshits who play to win. We haven't had anymore visitors starting to get combat ready than usual, either. Allowing Sec to do the same as everyone else doesn't increase the chance of shit characters, because they'd already be shit from the start, with or without TCFL in their backstory. Nor does Sec TCFL increase visitor combat characters, since they already do that as off-duty Sec. What changes between having Vol. [Sec Character] arrive and Vol. [Engineer character] arrive? They're both familiar faces, they're both confined to the rules of character behavior. Few if any situations where they are even seen are canonical.
AmoryBlaine Posted November 20, 2019 Author Posted November 20, 2019 37 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said: Dont soldiers usually become mercenaries AFTER their time served? How do you work 40 weeks between the two? What if you have conflicting deployment areas? Can't this literally be applied to any other job on station. What if I'm suppose to work on Monday, but they need me with the TCFL on Monday as well- but I'm an Engineer. Does swapping out Engineer for Security Officer change the balance involved? You're still an NT employee, you're still a volunteer with the TCFL. If we're willing to overlook the lack of logic in what you just said in regards to Engineers, Paramedics, and everyone else that is a volunteer TCFL, then you ought to be overlooking it for Sec as well.
AmoryBlaine Posted November 20, 2019 Author Posted November 20, 2019 4 hours ago, Doxxmedearly said: I'd say I'd like to keep it because the last thing we need is more sec officers with military backgrounds/militia backgrounds/excuses to use military-grade equipment but honestly like almost every sec officer is like that anyway and we can't do much to stop it so it doesn't really matter from an in-round perspective. This isn't about backgrounds, as you can be ex-TCFL already, you just can't be active. This is about active TCFL volunteers. That aside, the occupation of Security Officer already covers the excuse of knowing how to operate most conventional weapons, because you're handling conventional weapons or at the very least expected to know how. On top of this, the requirements for the job include academy training- listing military academies as examples- or 2+ years experience in law enforcement or security related occupations. So of course you'd get a lot of military and law enforcement guys- that's who you want. The only thing you could really use TCFL to excuse is knowing how to use a hardsuit, or drive a mech (Reminder, the TCFL has barely any current era military tech, it's all outdated stuff, or utility gear.) but, you can do that already by having a certificate in your records, or just saying you know how because of prior experience. An example being you worked in a warehouse for a year moving crates with a Ripley. Don't think anyone's gonna stop you if you use that. So really, all TCFL Sec does is diversify characters a bit more, in regards to their values- it is volunteer work after all.
Nantei Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 5 hours ago, Zundy said: It's not a military background, you literally are working in a milita unit. That being said I wouldn't mind either way. It is pretty much the national guard. Also the literal first sentence of the wiki page: The Tau Ceti Foreign Legion is a military force employed by the Republic of Biesel consisting of mostly volunteers of all recognized sentient citizens.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, AmoryBlaine said: Can't this literally be applied to any other job on station. What if I'm suppose to work on Monday, but they need No it doesnt. A big chunk of bartenders and chefs leaving to deploy with their unit isnt the same kind of security issue as if chunks of your security call out, leaving your security staff undermanned. This also goes both ways. Being in the TCFL means you cut ties to other governments. At this point your argument may as well be that being in the russian army shouldn't block me from being in the american army at the same time. Dont put mercenaries in the militia designed to leverage against the mercenaries. That makes no sense. If the tcfl is filled with NT SECURITY then what happens when the TCFL finally flexes on the ert? Bad plan! Mercenaries always defect! Dont carthage tau ceti!
Carver Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 2 hours ago, MattAtlas said: You'd be correct. I'd prefer we see no off-duty personnel rolling up as TCFL. Go all the way or don't bother at all. 5 hours ago, Doxxmedearly said: I'd say I'd like to keep it because the last thing we need is more sec officers with military backgrounds/militia backgrounds/excuses to use military-grade equipment but honestly like almost every sec officer is like that anyway and we can't do much to stop it so it doesn't really matter from an in-round perspective. These are exactly the people NT would hire with how many times the station has been canonically attacked, raided, set aflame and worse. Hilariously, this exact thing happened during the TCFL introduction event. Real funny coincidence.
AmoryBlaine Posted November 20, 2019 Author Posted November 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said: A big chunk of bartenders and chefs leaving to deploy with their unit isnt the same kind of security issue as if chunks of your security call out, leaving your security staff undermanned. I suppose there's just a mass of bartenders and chefs around? And engineers, and medical staff? All of these people are easily replaceable but Sec Officers aren't. 4 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said: This also goes both ways. Being in the TCFL means you cut ties to other governments. At this point your argument may as well be that being in the russian army shouldn't block me from being in the american army at the same time. NT doesn't have an army, nor are TC and NT interested seperate. This isn't a really equal comparison. 5 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said: Dont put mercenaries in the militia designed to leverage against the mercenaries. That makes no sense. If the tcfl is filled with NT SECURITY then what happens when the TCFL finally flexes on the ert? Bad plan! Mercenaries always defect! Dont carthage tau ceti! We're talking about volunteers. You seem to imply that everyone but the NT Sec volunteers will support a fight with NT, or something.
Brutishcrab51 Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) Jeez it's almost like in three years the Aurora II has: Been boarded by Solarian marines and turned into a warzone, twice. Been boarded by the Lii'dra death-bugs, twice. Suffered from a pirate attack once. Been boarded by synthetic hunter-killer war droids, twice or three times. Hosted wanted interstellar terrorists, twice. Met the Zo'ra first and foremost. That's just what comes to mind. NT should want paramilitary/military veterans/militia/heavily trained people at this point. The "mallcop" aesthetic is dumb as sin, being blunt. Security aren't mallcops. By all rights, the Aurora should have assault rifles and standard-issue hardsuits at this point, but we don't apply realistic expectations because of balancing. TCFL are literally Biesel military forces. Don't treat them as anything less. They're not paramilitary (non-government military). Quote NT doesn't have an army, nor are TC and NT interested seperate. This isn't a really equal comparison. Well, they sort of do. NT has the ERT and its own navy, which is comparable and/or stronger than Biesel's, according to lore. Elyra thought that buying ERT contracts would defeat the Lii'dra invasion. NT is also a private corporate interest, whereas TC is a weak Republic born from those interests but not wholly driven by them. Edited November 20, 2019 by Brutishcrab51 Addition
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted November 20, 2019 Posted November 20, 2019 NT has a mercenary army. Thats what the ert is. It is objectively a private, armed military unit for hire.
Scheveningen Posted November 21, 2019 Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) The ERT wiki page says they're an asset protection service employed by and for NanoTrasen. I don't think having a heavily stratified command structure would qualify it as a mercenary service. The TCFL are essentially the French Foreign Legion combined also with US Reservists, seeing as how Volunteers essentially only operate on a temporary retainer basis. ISD is equivalent to a European gendarmerie, but for NanoTrasen. They have very specialized riot equipment, ablative equipment and ballistic armor in addition to shotguns, PDWs and assault rifles, most of these things US cop armories don't get at their station. As far as civil enforcement goes, ISD is more similar to European policing organizations. The ERT is essentially Nanotrasen's Special Weapons And Tactics team. Due to the nature of corporate dominance, they have even more militarization of their more specialized teams when compared to the ISD.Nobody ICly knows of the HAPT, nor do they have a lore page per se, but we all OOCly accept they are NanoTrasen's death-squad. Considering how the goals of NanoTrasen and the government of Tau Ceti differ massively, I can see why security officers cannot be a volunteer for the TCFL in congruence with their current employment as civil law enforcement for the NanoTrasen corporation. It makes sense, and there would be a conflict of interest otherwise, because TCFL may try to seize corporate assets if they have an excuse to. And I really do not want to see "off-duty TCFL vol. security officer" handing corporate property off to TCFL just because of 'camaraderie.' Edited November 21, 2019 by Scheveningen
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