Push for Human Augmentation

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

When i pushed for Autakh i also got on to campaign for eridani to become the source of human full body augmentation. I even was okay to hold back autakh until humans got it in. This was never seriously picked up and i was unwilling to delay autakh for a significant amount of time - which would have lasted until even now.

Join me in a concerted effort to have human augmentation finally added to our server.

[Carver]

+1, I thought the suggestion didn't actually say much of anything at first but then I re-read the end of the first sentence. I still think a little more meat to this suggestion would be helpful.

 

[Itanimulli]

The council of one agrees with this. The council of one finds this proposal....acceptable.

[Roostercat]

Yes i want please yes cool gamer move. But seriously, this would give biomech engineers something to do and allow people to make augmented humans, which should have been a thing long ago. As long as it is balanced. +1

[BRAINOS]

the fact we got augmented unathi before we got augmented humans is, to me, fucking bonkers in 100 ways.

we could literally just have a race of shells that have a human brain inside, ala ghost in the shell, and call it a day, and i'd be happy. this is the simplest way to implement this without worrying about mechanics.

i'm absolutely down for more, though.

 

[Gromnax]

2 hours ago, BRAINOS said:

we could literally just have a race of shells that have a human brain inside, ala ghost in the shell, and call it a day, and i'd be happy.

Sooo... A Full Body Proteshis? It brings a lot of its own problems.

[Zundy]

Such as? ?

[Gromnax]

People playing robots with all the advantages, but not roleplaying as one, for instance.

[Bear]

Then make it loaded with disadvantages. There is plenty of.ways to be creative here!

Edited January 29, 2020 by Bear

[Zundy]

This ain't a team death match game. How does one gain advantages in a HRP setting?

[FreshRefreshments]

Unathi currently have full body prosthetics in the form of Aut'akh. Humans have lore for this in Eridani already, but did not get it due to developers not doing it. 

[Alberyk]

It is being added here: https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/8113

But I have zero plans for adding human fbs.

[Zundy]

Why?

[Butterrobber202]

6 hours ago, Zundy said:

Why?

because thats an IPC with an MMI

[BRAINOS]

11 hours ago, Gromnax said:

People playing robots with all the advantages, but not roleplaying as one, for instance.

except you're not supposed to roleplay a robot, you're supposed to roleplay a human brain in a robot body. which, again, we already have precedent for in the form of au'takh. they are literally just unathi with near full-body prosthetics (kind of a general grievous situation but essentially the same thing). 

we could nerf the full-body prosthetic thing simply by letting them have pain, along with all of the other nerfs an IPC already has. i'm not sure how au'takh are done mechanically, but there's no reason humans can't get the same treatment.

simply whitelist the full-body thing and bam, there you go. unless we're all cool with the only instance of advanced transhumanism in this game being rep'd by the most notoriously technophobic, superstitious species in our lore?

[Alberyk]

FPB are not within the scopes of my pr. Adding them would be something totally different and unrelated to just adding augments in loadout.

[GreenBoi]

9 minutes ago, BRAINOS said:

unless we're all cool with the only instance of advanced transhumanism in this game being rep'd by the most notoriously technophobic, superstitious species in our lore?

This won't be the case soon, once Alb's PR is done.

 

I'm personally not a fan of FBPs because people often do play them like robots, or they play them like humans who have no sense of fear because all-metal, hardly any nerves. FBPs also don't need to exist as a widespread thing in-lore; in a universe where cloning is possible- why would you decide the best way to circumvent death would be to lock yourself in an emotion-less metal shell where you can't do even half of the shit you could when alive. You can no longer eat, smell, drink or even take drugs; it's a pointless last stand and we can't forget about the fact that you'd need to consistently keep your chassis repaired and up-kept unlike a human body which does so by itself until your much longer, natural "limit."

 

With the reasons specified above, why the fuck would more than a small amount of people prefer FBPs over cloning? You can assume cloning is advertised as a really helpful 'second-chance' procedure that sucks at the beginning, but gets better after a year of treatments. There is nothing engaging to a human being about being stuck in a metal chassis- unable to eat or drink or engage in any of the ecstasies in life you could engage in before; something like this would not be widespread.

 

If you want to argue "weeell, just because it's not widespread doesn't mean it can't be a mechanical option", then I'll just let you know the second something is an option- people will pick it. Regardless of the lore or not, it will ultimately be an OOC trend that decides whether or not x is popular. If people decide "BRAIN-SHELLS ARE COOL! LET ME PLAY ONE AND JOIN THE CULTURE", it will start to be seen as a common thing even if the lore dictates it's not and that's when the band-aid fix is no longer a fix.

[FreshRefreshments]

Full Body Prosthetics could be something any transhumanist sees as superior, for any number of reasons. "You can no longer eat, smell, drink or even take drugs" is not a downside to everyone. For some, that probably sounds amazing. 

If someone plays a FBP like they're invincible, unkillable, and ignores pain for the fact that they don't have to care about it, that is an ahelpable issue. If someone chops off their prosthetic hand every single round and brags about it and acts like its cool and funny, you ahelp. If a security officer in a FBP charges towards combat recklessly, you ahelp. 

A FBP is not a way of circumventing death, although it could be. People IC get limbs removed and replaced with prosthetics simply because they think its better. 

[canon35]

We had full body prosthetics in the form of IPCs and shells that could have MMIs, way back when shells first came in 2016. They were literally just humans in a different shell. After some time they were eventually cut. We don't really need them honestly, as much as I did like the old stuff of jamming a guy's brain into a frame and making him into a IPC. Transhumanists can make due with what we have already: Limbs, organs.  If you want to talk about how you wish to insert your brain into a mech in the future, you're always free to do so. 

Onto augmentation itself, fucking YES. More ways to customize your character, more interesting cybernetics, and some cool sci fi stuff for us to play around with. Especially if it's rolled into robotics like regular mechanical limbs. This could open up a lot in the future. 
 

[Carver]

9 hours ago, GreenBoi said:

With the reasons specified above, why the fuck would more than a small amount of people prefer FBPs over cloning? You can assume cloning is advertised as a really helpful 'second-chance' procedure that sucks at the beginning, but gets better after a year of treatments. There is nothing engaging to a human being about being stuck in a metal chassis- unable to eat or drink or engage in any of the ecstasies in life you could engage in before; something like this would not be widespread.

 

If you want to argue "weeell, just because it's not widespread doesn't mean it can't be a mechanical option", then I'll just let you know the second something is an option- people will pick it. Regardless of the lore or not, it will ultimately be an OOC trend that decides whether or not x is popular. If people decide "BRAIN-SHELLS ARE COOL! LET ME PLAY ONE AND JOIN THE CULTURE", it will start to be seen as a common thing even if the lore dictates it's not and that's when the band-aid fix is no longer a fix.

Because a clone isn't you. You stay dead, permanently, you're never coming back. You're having a knock-off replace you. There's no second chance to cloning, you're merely replacing yourself to mitigate post-mortem issues by your place in society suddenly becoming vacant.

As for 'this is supposed to be rare', Aut'akh should be rarer than Dionaea yet the inverse happens to be the case. That's a poor argument.

As Fresh mentioned, being unable to engage in physiological desires can be considered a boon. A removal of carnality, or if one seeks to retain some sensations in a realistic sense, replacing it with a system of artificial glands to simulate such things (Which is hilariously exactly how you'd be able to simulate emotion better than a synthetic ever could, albeit never quite as naturally as in a proper body). Imagine not having to waste any time in your day to eat, drink and so forth- being able to merely 'refill' on requirements nutriments and water reserves for the body.

Most likely though, if we saw FBPs they'd be in the Aut'akh/General Grievous style. You still have your brain, you have a majority of important organs and bits. The major change is that you're augmented by technology far beyond the physical (And depending on design and extent, mental) capabilities of your biological form.

[GreenBoi]

11 hours ago, Carver said:

As for 'this is supposed to be rare', Aut'akh should be rarer than Dionaea yet the inverse happens to be the case. That's a poor argument.

Already stated in post- not my argument, it's an argument to a potential arguent.

 

12 hours ago, Carver said:

Because a clone isn't you. You stay dead, permanently, you're never coming back. You're having a knock-off replace you. There's no second chance to cloning, you're merely replacing yourself to mitigate post-mortem issues by your place in society suddenly becoming vacant.

Most people would rather kid themselves and think their consciousness will somehow transfer to the clone than get rid of practically everything human about them. It's not as simple as "cannot bleed", you are literally living in another body with NONE of the shit you could do before.

[FreshRefreshments]

4 hours ago, GreenBoi said:

Most people would rather kid themselves and think their consciousness will somehow transfer to the clone than get rid of practically everything human about them. It's not as simple as "cannot bleed", you are literally living in another body with NONE of the shit you could do before.

Some people would rather make that trade off. I don't see how "it denies you the right to eat, to drink, to take drugs" is, bad. It isn't, in everyone's eyes. Particularly someone extreme enough to want a full body replacement. 

However, Aut'akh still eat and drink. Aut'akh can still take drugs, too. So, this argument seems unrelated either way, if FBP are done the same way Aut'akh are using them.

[Alberyk]

17 minutes ago, FreshRefreshments said:

However, Aut'akh still eat and drink. Aut'akh can still take drugs, too. So, this argument seems unrelated either way, if FBP are done the same way Aut'akh are using them.

Aut'akh are not fully robotic, just their limbs. I also believe that just making fbps a copy of them would not be a good idea. If fbps are ever added, they should be their own different thing.

[FreshRefreshments]

Their entire outside is robotic. If FBP's were added in the same way Aut'akh currently HAVE them, which is a bundle of organs kept safe inside a crunchy robotic outside, and this is what people have been suggesting in this thread, then I don't see the problem. 

However, now there is an argument that they should be their own thing, separate from Aut'akh. Which now raises a question. 

Eridani currently has (or had, but I do not THINK it changed with the rework) the most qualification for FBP. And this is where Aut'akh got it from, Eridani. So, if Eridani were the lore backing up FBP, why would "human" and "unathi" be so different? If they are rather different, then that rips the hole of Eridani and Aut'akh even further, considering Eridani spent EXTRA money on designs, fabricators, and even testing to see if this would work, in a business venture that was a horrible idea in the first place. Coming from the Eridani Corporate Federation, a place that THRIVES on smart business. 

I think the "Grievous" style as its been called in the thread already would be fine. If it were such a big deal that they cannot eat, which, it isnt, if anything this can be considered a feature of prostheticization, then have life support systems that require nutrients to sustain the body still. Biofuel. Which is, to my understanding, and I may be wrong, what Aut'akh use already.

[GreenBoi]

9 hours ago, FreshRefreshments said:

Their entire outside is robotic. If FBP's were added in the same way Aut'akh currently HAVE them, which is a bundle of organs kept safe inside a crunchy robotic outside, and this is what people have been suggesting in this thread, then I don't see the problem. 

However, now there is an argument that they should be their own thing, separate from Aut'akh. Which now raises a question. 

Eridani currently has (or had, but I do not THINK it changed with the rework) the most qualification for FBP. And this is where Aut'akh got it from, Eridani. So, if Eridani were the lore backing up FBP, why would "human" and "unathi" be so different? If they are rather different, then that rips the hole of Eridani and Aut'akh even further, considering Eridani spent EXTRA money on designs, fabricators, and even testing to see if this would work, in a business venture that was a horrible idea in the first place. Coming from the Eridani Corporate Federation, a place that THRIVES on smart business. 

Aut'akh made the prosthetic 'outsides/skin' themselves, while Eridani only "supplied" the augments through the crashed shuttle.

 

The concept of FBPs existing overall isn't problematic, the issue is just them becoming widespread and marketed. If a person is extreme enough to do that, then that's them and their extremist beliefs; I could totally see a crazy dreg trying to do it and most dregs also not because it barrs them from drugs and shit. I think it'd be too outlandish to be an option for station characters to be them. Aut'akh themselves are a cult, and they have religious "backing" on their things at least- a normal FBP's backing would just be "this is a sure-alternative to cloning" where people can go back and forth in circles talking about if it's really worth living life in a robotic shell where you can't feel naything.