Return Maintenance Access

[Snakebittenn]

To the following jobs: Cargo techs, janitors, Security, and Assistants.
However.
We punish Security administratively for patrolling maint for no reason or stealing literally all of the loot in a locker to tuck in the armory like they did in the old days. We punish anyone else for going in there solely for validhunting.
Being that the above was the initial problem that started the downward spiral of nobody but 5 jobs having it, I feel like we should've solved it the good old fashioned way (jobbans.) There's a lot we're missing that Maint once offered. Maint goblin characters, just hanging out or renovating abandoned areas with friends, drug deals, antags that don't have access (or can't work access into their TC budget.) As well as the fact that a huge amount of the station is now pretty much bloat.

[Susan]

I'll say what I said before: patrolling maint is not and never will be an issue. As for taking all the items and putting them locked away in the armory? Powergaming, officers shouldn't do it.

[Scheveningen]

Literally no officer locks them away in the armory. Often they'll take the items for personal usage.

[Chada1]

Security shouldn't be allowed to routinely patrol maintenance, so if this is going to be added back, some kind of thing needs to be added to stop them from doing that, be it a rule, a directive (No patrolling maintenance outside of emergencies in code green?) 

Or even just administrative ruling (If you're patrolling maintenance constantly without some kind of push like a carp break-in/Icarus Drones/etc, you're clearly looking for Antags/etc)

So that needs to be handled.

[Arrow768]

Voting for dismissal.

46 minutes ago, Snakebittenn said:

I feel like we should've solved it the good old fashioned way (jobbans.)

If something can be solved by a simple mechanical implementation instead of relying on administrative action the mechanical implementation is the way to go.
Therefore it has been solved by a mechanical implementation by looking at who needs to be in maint and assigning the access accordingly.

[DronzTheWolf]

I support this 100%
Give us our dingy tunnels back. I miss being able to just clear out a big chunk of abandoned room and make it into a hangout or a little crime time zone. 
Or meet in the middle. If you don't want to give access back, make it so only the ways into and out of maintenance need maint access and all the doors inside the tunnel are general access so you only need to hack one door to get in instead of just going through like hackerman on every door.  

[Alberyk]

As I pointed out, if we decide to go with this; we will likely end being more strict with maintenance crew shenanigans.

[Hepatica]

+1. Exactly what Sue and Schev said, and I have 0 problem with administrative punishment for valid hunting officers. Let's be 100% honest, this is an OOC change that makes absolutely 0 sense ICly, and while I concede that some things have to be changed from an OOC standpoint, this is not one of them IMO. You would want your security force to be able to get into maintenance for issues, especially considering how the station has been attacked by nearly ever single race in a very serious manner, and seems to have horrible emergency situations twice a year, at the least. Punish valid hunters, return maint access. And keep the ability to switch on and off emergency maintenance for command.

[Garnascus]

9 hours ago, Snakebittenn said:

We punish Security administratively for patrolling maint for no reason or stealing literally all of the loot in a locker to tuck in the armory like they did in the old days. We punish anyone else for going in there solely for validhunting.

Voting for dismissal as well

Mechanical restrictions are far superior. Allowing sec back into maint just makes it easier to catch antags. 

[Codename: Bear]

There is absolutely no reason you can explain why Security should not have access besides OOC.

Kind of sad seeing things voted for dismissal so quickly when others bring up valid points and the dismissals are sentences with one point.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Codename: Bear
bwah

[Chada1]

7 hours ago, Codename: Bear said:

There is absolutely no reason you can explain why Security should not have access besides OOC.

Kind of sad seeing things voted for dismissal so quickly when others bring up valid points and the dismissals are sentences with one point.

Yes there is, Security is not meant to be stumbling around in Maintenance, it'd be like them stumbling around in Engineering all of the time, it's an Engineering place, not a Security place.

Hence the term 'Maintenance' and not 'Dark Tunnels'

Edited August 8, 2020 by Chada1

[Snakebittenn]

12 hours ago, Garnascus said:

Voting for dismissal as well

Mechanical restrictions are far superior. Allowing sec back into maint just makes it easier to catch antags. 

What about every other job that lost access?

[Codename: Bear]

53 minutes ago, Chada1 said:

Yes there is, Security is not meant to be stumbling around in Maintenance, it'd be like them stumbling around in Engineering all of the time, it's an Engineering place, not a Security place.

Hence the term 'Maintenance' and not 'Dark Tunnels'

Again, how many times has the station been canonically attacked by hostile forces? The point isn't Security to be stumbling around in maint. The point is for Security to have the means to counter a threat hiding away in maint without the need for command lifting all access on maint tunnels and making the "pls don't be in tunnels if you don't need to be in tunnels" announcement.

Nobody here is asking for security to be running around in the tunnels and is recommending people who do that type of valid hunting to be punished.

[Chada1]

27 minutes ago, Codename: Bear said:

Again, how many times has the station been canonically attacked by hostile forces? The point isn't Security to be stumbling around in maint. The point is for Security to have the means to counter a threat hiding away in maint without the need for command lifting all access on maint tunnels and making the "pls don't be in tunnels if you don't need to be in tunnels" announcement.

Nobody here is asking for security to be running around in the tunnels and is recommending people who do that type of valid hunting to be punished.

None of this is going to fix the problem.

Security will be in maint because Security has no reason not to be in maint if this change is reverted, it'll become near ritual that they'll patrol it all. They did this up until their access was removed. Maintenance is no different at all than them needing access to another department (Which they have to either ask for access to, or find another less subtle way in).

The point on being able to respond to threats on a dime and constantly be aware of them is the problem that will lead to this happening. It's not worth the headache, and being canonically attacked doesn't mean the Aurora should be treated as a military base with Security patrols consistently every round over every inch which is what will happen.

[Scheveningen]

6 hours ago, Codename: Bear said:

Again, how many times has the station been canonically attacked by hostile forces? The point isn't Security to be stumbling around in maint. The point is for Security to have the means to counter a threat hiding away in maint without the need for command lifting all access on maint tunnels and making the "pls don't be in tunnels if you don't need to be in tunnels" announcement.

To be fair this isn't hard to do, I always carry the head of staff laptop around to at-will lift maintenance restrictions and it hasn't become a problem. The limitations on security actively make it more difficult for them to neutralize antagonists as effectively.

I'm still supportive of maintaining status quo on this issue. So long as other exceptions are not lifted, obviously. Gameplay is fine as-is regarding this specific aspect of gameplay.

[Garnascus]

15 hours ago, Snakebittenn said:

What about every other job that lost access?

They have no business being in maint in the first place. 

[Cnaym]

Just couple it to red, if the threat is severe enough for crew to bunker down, it should be dangerous enough to give security emergency permissions like tunnel access. It would give red a reason to exist ^_^ right now it's the "command has decided we are not leaving yet" button.

The code red announcement  could add that only ISD is to be in the tunnels, crew are to stay out (or maybe use them to hide?).

[Itanimulli]

So just don't give security access?

The whole station being punished because of an ooc reason for o n e department makes me upset, even when I'm usually playing security.

 

On 09/08/2020 at 11:42, Garnascus said:

They have no business being in maint in the first place. 

It's a good h a l f of the map that has been quarantined for antags. It sucks. I miss the characters that used to consistently be inside of it.

 

Or, even better, give security access to their own maintenance doors and nothing else. Like, how robotics had it before. Problem solved?

[Arrow768]

Binning as it has been a week since the creation and two dismissals have been added.