Valkrae Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 As it says on the tin. As it stands, currently, Ions can one-shot down any IPC/Mech/Borg/Drone or whatever else happens to be on the business end of them. Why? Tasers take multiple shots to down, laser rifles take multiple shots to kill, so why are Ions one-shotting every machine thing that they run into? I honestly think they need to be nerfed, in some form or fashion. Maybe model the damage table after Tasers, or something?
Skull132 Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 The whole reason why ions are strong is because there's no pain/stun/cripple mechanics on synths. That is it. Either we add those, or we don't change a thing.
Valkrae Posted August 28, 2020 Author Posted August 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Skull132 said: The whole reason why ions are strong is because there's no pain/stun/cripple mechanics on synths. That is it. Either we add those, or we don't change a thing. There needs to be. There should never exist a world where a single shot can down someone for upwards of thirty seconds.
geeves Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 the simplest solution to this will be to commission a willing developer (im burnt out so not me) and get it done with
niennab Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 I think that the ion should be changed so that if set to lethal, it only has one shot. That way if you choose to fire it, you'd better make sure you're going to hit and it means you can't spray. The gun is nearly the equivalent of the station nuke and if an antag has it, IPCs are powerless to do anything.
Peppermint Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 Just now, niennab said: I think that the ion should be changed so that if set to lethal, it only has one shot. That way if you choose to fire it, you'd better make sure you're going to hit and it means you can't spray. The gun is nearly the equivalent of the station nuke and if an antag has it, IPCs are powerless to do anything. This. It's fine it works against IPCs, but 10(?) sprayable, AOE shots that instantly end the IPC they hit is so silly.
niennab Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Lemei said: This. It's fine it works against IPCs, but 10(?) sprayable, AOE shots that instantly end the IPC they hit is so silly. Oh god I forgot about the AOE as well. I (much to my embarrassment) once downed myself and another officer by picking up the ion and firing, not knowing there even was an AOE.
MattAtlas Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 As said before on coding channels I would not accept a solution that is a simple numbers swap. This is what I had in mind: ion rifles don't need only a number change because that's lazy, they need to be repurposed into disablers and disablers specifically On IPCs: 1. Add EMP damage as a damage type on organs 2. Make EMP damage be a 1-100 deal that fallsoff overtime, organs malfunction if it is present (e.g fall over, eye blurring, ...), only one organ be EMP'd at a time On energy guns: 1. Energy guns are overhauled to take charge cells that can be hotswapped a-la magazines instead of an invisible cell, think like thermal clips from Mass Effect 2. Charge cells are vulnerable to EMPs that make them not work for X amount of time dependant on EMP strength while in the gun, but NOT outside of it Charge cells are not strictly a necessary change, this can work with eguns as is
Karhast Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 Ions are what? IPCs are immune to most atmospheric threats, don't feel pain, don't have stamina, and their nominal weakness of 'limbs pop off really quickly' goes away the moment they don any armor at all. They have a literal one weakness remaining; please don't make IPCs' current strength any worse by nerfing what remains their one weakness.
niennab Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Karhast said: IPCs are immune to most atmospheric threats, don't feel pain, don't have stamina Not true. IPCs overheat and take damage in vented areas. IPCs also have stamina in the form of their battery (a shell can only try to disarm someone four times before they're at a red battery) and subsequent overheating by running for too long.
Valkrae Posted August 28, 2020 Author Posted August 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Karhast said: Ions are what? IPCs are immune to most atmospheric threats, don't feel pain, don't have stamina, and their nominal weakness of 'limbs pop off really quickly' goes away the moment they don any armor at all. They have a literal one weakness remaining; please don't make IPCs' current strength any worse by nerfing what remains their one weakness. The armour bit is not true, either. One ion shot, even with Ablative Armour, will instantly down an IPC.
Butterrobber202 Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 i hate the ion rifle because of gimping antags in RIGs, it just has so many shots and so much AoE.
Snakebittenn Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 5 hours ago, Karhast said: Ions are what? IPCs are immune to most atmospheric threats, don't feel pain, don't have stamina, and their nominal weakness of 'limbs pop off really quickly' goes away the moment they don any armor at all. They have a literal one weakness remaining; please don't make IPCs' current strength any worse by nerfing what remains their one weakness. They still have a huge-ass weakness. Lasers. The strongest frame against lasers still has no resistance to it, they just take human levels of damage. Lasers will handily cripple most frames, especially if you aim at their legs.
Carver Posted August 28, 2020 Posted August 28, 2020 I'm with Skull, just add some fucking pain mechanics then nerf ions into the dirt.
Skull132 Posted August 29, 2020 Posted August 29, 2020 14 hours ago, Snakebittenn said: They still have a huge-ass weakness. Lasers. The strongest frame against lasers still has no resistance to it, they just take human levels of damage. Lasers will handily cripple most frames, especially if you aim at their legs. lmao. Their huge-ass weakness to lasers is another symptom of them not having any pain/stamina/paralysis mechanics. The reason why IPCs are so horribly fragile is that they exist outside of the normal combat tools, ergo, to not make them into huge ass powering trains, we've made them horribly fragile when confronted with the right tools. If and when we can add some analogy to pain to the IPCs, only then can we consider making them less horribly fragile. Otherwise they just end up being super fucking strong.
Cnaym Posted August 29, 2020 Posted August 29, 2020 100% agree with Skull. It's information based gameplay to figure out if you are facing off against synthsec or not, the same goes for unathi btw, the freeze ray annihalates them into the dirt within secconds. For tajara it is any fire damage, that G2 surviving five fireballs will be surrounded by a mountain of crisp Zhan. Every species has their down side, every species can counter it to a degree. If you know the enemy has an ion, increase your range with a sniper rifle and dab on them. If you know the enemy has a hardsuit while piloting a mech, pray that someone brought the damn thing ^_^ A good addition to soft counter the ion imho, would be adding a light surge protection module to robotics that can be implanted into IPCs with just 1-3 charges. That way you can missfire once or twice before going down. Cyborgs have it in a heavy variant and it can safe you from being caught in the blast while still making the Ion the threat it is supposed to be, so that you have to gtfo asap. I'd love to have Ion storms do small damage to IPCs aswell, announce themselves early, so that IPCs have time to cover in the tunnels (rad storm equivalent), but as it is most synths have been rathered bothered by anything ion sadly. If just a number swap would be wanted, lowering the shot count of the thing would at least lower the chance of instant death and the spam of it.
Karhast Posted August 29, 2020 Posted August 29, 2020 On 28/08/2020 at 19:44, Snakebittenn said: They still have a huge-ass weakness. Lasers. The strongest frame against lasers still has no resistance to it, they just take human levels of damage. Lasers will handily cripple most frames, especially if you aim at their legs. > huge weakness > human levels of damage I mean...
Chada1 Posted August 29, 2020 Posted August 29, 2020 (edited) I'm with Skull, Cnaym, and Matt, IPCs are ridiculously, RIDICULOUSLY strong right now. It'd be like making 'borgs immune to flashes and able to tank several EMP shots, except the 'borgs can literally wear armor that nullifies near every type of damage except lasers and you can have an infinite number of them in the round. Replace Ions, or add more weaknesses to IPCs, or keep it as it is. Edited August 29, 2020 by Chada1
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