Job Accessibility Requirements Feedback

[Alberyk]

After a suggestion topic, request from players, and some confusion about what is allowed, the moderation staff and the wiki team prepared a definitive guide on what kind of in character disability is allowed in each job. You can find the guide here: ttps://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Job_Accessibility_Requirements

This will go live now and will be enforced by staff. However we are after feedback and wish to know the player's opinion. Feel free to suggest changes.

[The Stryker]

Can muteness be countered with things like text-to-speech devices and the like? I understand roboticist is more of a generalized/quasi-medical role now but we've had mute roboticists that are capable of handling their jobs to a reasonable degree of effectiveness.

[greenjoe]

I think botanist was missed from the list?

 

Eyesight issues such as colorblindness of various degrees are also not covered in this.

 

I was also previously told a wheelchair-bound pharmacist is something allowed, and that seems to have changed with this?

Edited March 15, 2021 by greenjoe

[Carver]

These stand out to me as incorrect assessments:

Unimpaired: The job will require the character to use both their limbs with precision and speed.

• Consular > Impaired: Paperwork and Fax Machines do not need two hands, nor recorders.
• Detective > Impaired: Recorders again, do not need two hands. The dirty work is predominantly done by Forensic Technicians.

Movement Impaired: The job will require a character to be able to move and navigate the station and main departments without issue. Characters with joint pain, Vestibular issues, and other disabilities that might require a cane belong in this category.

• Cargo Technician > Unimpaired: Your entire job is physical labour of moving about heavy crates, you should be in as good of a shape as miners.
• Forensic Technician > Unimpaired: You're getting in a lot of uncomfortable places to collect evidence, again, you should be in good shape.
• Janitor > Unimpaired: Similar to Forensics, dirty and uncomfortable places where you won't have a lot of space to move.
• Consular > Heavily Movement Impaired: You're a fax-fixing paperpusher with no rush - if Chaplains, Psychiatrists and Reporters can get away with being heavily movement impaired, then so should Consulars.

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Carver
Clarifying what changes I think should be made, and adding another note on Consulars.

[Coalf]

I wanted to make a quick note at the start of this thread. I tried to use as neutral language as possible in order to avoid belittling anyone. If you have any issues with the language used, feel free to make suggestions also.
If you feel uncomfortable talking about it in public, feel free to hit me up in private, I'm not open 24/7 but I try my best.

[greenjoe]

I'll also add that this thin black text on dark red is kinda hard to read?

 

or at least it is on the white pages of the wiki

Edited March 15, 2021 by greenjoe

[Coalf]

3 minutes ago, greenjoe said:

I'll also add that this thin black text on dark red is kinda hard to read?

 

or at least it is on the white pages of the wiki

Whoops, I use darkmode on my browser.  My bad.

[Butterrobber202]

I'd like to think, HoP, Consular, Research Director, and Scientists could be have limb impairment without significant issues arising.

[SatinsPristOTD]

Hi! I have a few comments, questions, concerns, etc. I, myself, am disabled and I've learned the process of going through "jobs" with mobility impairment.

First, comments:
"Command is expected to lead during situations and emergencies" is ableist when applied to this page's purpose, and while I'm not implying anyone meant it "rude" or "condescending" it is implying those with disabilities cannot lead or maintain urgency in an emergency. We're disabled, but that doesn't mean we can't lead or take control of a bad situation and wrangle cats out of danger.

Yes, Command is expected to lead during situations and emergencies. That is a fact, but putting this before you then try to puzzle piece every disability into a chart implies those of us with a genetic disorder that effects our mobility can't lead or take charge.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I just think it needs a tweak to the wording.

Concerns:
HOP's, I don't see, have an issue with being in a wheelchair. For the most part, they do work as HR. It isn't like NT fully expects a HOP to break out in a run in the hallway to wrangle up the Service department because merc's have broken into Cargo. In reality, their job's quite cushy in their office.

Pharmacist falls into this category too. I'd say Chemist MAYBE should be able to evacuate quickly, but at that point we're splitting hairs.

Cargo tech's.... really wouldn't make a lot of sense to have mobility issues. Most labor jobs require you to be able to "stand for long periods of time, and lift 40+lbs". It's grunt work. The office work of Cargo would be ran by the QM.
 

Edited March 15, 2021 by SatinsPristOTD

[Happy_Fox]

Anecdotal but I've been able to "lead" as a HoP during a situation/emergency while receiving medical treatment and being entirely immobilized. The vast majority of work for a HoP is using the computer at a desk/laptop or just talking over the radio. Everywhere they would need to get to (incl bunker and surface command) can be reached with ease or by elevator. Also agree with others on the cargo technician. I would imagine lifting a crate (say onto a table) is a basic requirement. It's a very physical role.

[Peppermint]

Seems sensible. I like this idea, and agree with most. I have a few questions though, as don't understand sections and may just be lacking context.

Why does security have minimal speech impediment, but first responder have speech impediment? They both need very clear lines of communication, and I'd argue that goes for the latter more so for the former.  I'm also not sure about detective/FT being movement impaired, especially the former. FTs spend a lot of time scrambling around in nasty areas, whilst detectives still have officer powers even if they're a last resort.

Chef being able to have many disabilities also seems strange, for the same reason science is being kept relatively disability free. Being near hot oil isn't much different from acid, for example - though I would say science in general seems a little strict, albeit with the exceptions of phoron research and xeno things.

 

[MattAtlas]

2 hours ago, Carver said:

These stand out to me as incorrect assessments:

Unimpaired: The job will require the character to use both their limbs with precision and speed.

• Consular > Impaired: Paperwork and Fax Machines do not need two hands, nor recorders.
• Detective > Impaired: Recorders again, do not need two hands. The dirty work is predominantly done by Forensic Technicians.

Movement Impaired: The job will require a character to be able to move and navigate the station and main departments without issue. Characters with joint pain, Vestibular issues, and other disabilities that might require a cane belong in this category.

• Cargo Technician > Unimpaired: Your entire job is physical labour of moving about heavy crates, you should be in as good of a shape as miners.
• Forensic Technician > Unimpaired: You're getting in a lot of uncomfortable places to collect evidence, again, you should be in good shape.
• Janitor > Unimpaired: Similar to Forensics, dirty and uncomfortable places where you won't have a lot of space to move.
• Consular > Heavily Movement Impaired: You're a fax-fixing paperpusher with no rush - if Chaplains, Psychiatrists and Reporters can get away with being heavily movement impaired, then so should Consulars.

 

A lot of what you're saying misses the fact that most of these jobs have special equipment that people with one hand simply couldn't use as well. Things like armor and disruptors, for example would be much harder to use for heads of personnel, consulars and detectives. For security specifically, being impaired is a fairly bad thing for the department as a whole. We also have to account for emergencies here. If I had my way, to be fair, neither of them would be movement impaired at all, they'd be unimpaired -- but I don't find either to be a bad compromise.

Forensic technicians and janitors being movement impaired is fine, because of this:

Quote

Movement Impaired: The job will require a character to be able to move and navigate the station and main departments without issue.

Cargo technicians being able to be impaired, however, is something I'll look into. It does seem a little weird.

14 minutes ago, Lemei said:

Why does security have minimal speech impediment, but first responder have speech impediment?

Good point. Will look into this.

14 minutes ago, Lemei said:

Chef being able to have many disabilities also seems strange

Good point. Will look into this.

14 minutes ago, Lemei said:

I would say science in general seems a little strict, albeit with the exceptions of phoron research and xeno things.

The reason for this is that a lot of science jobs need you to be in fairly good shape to run or otherwise carry out dangerous activities (slimes, EVA in toxins/xenoarch fall into this category) while roboticists need to lift very heavy things very often.

 

2 hours ago, greenjoe said:

I was also previously told a wheelchair-bound pharmacist is something allowed, and that seems to have changed with this?

Consider any previous rulings to be void.

Edited March 15, 2021 by MattAtlas

[niennab]

Somewhat unrelated to the topic at hand but would the server benefit by instead having hearing aids that are able to hear the radio frequency as well as a text-to-speech box of the same nature? I feel it would clear up some of the issues as well as open up the possibilities for other not-so-emergency services roles that are otherwise barred from having some disabilities currently.

[Carver]

43 minutes ago, MattAtlas said:

A lot of what you're saying misses the fact that most of these jobs have special equipment that people with one hand simply couldn't use as well. Things like armor and disruptors, for example would be much harder to use for heads of personnel, consulars and detectives. For security specifically, being impaired is a fairly bad thing for the department as a whole. We also have to account for emergencies here. If I had my way, to be fair, neither of them would be movement impaired at all, they'd be unimpaired -- but I don't find either to be a bad compromise.

I understand the argument in that case for Detective, but Consulars are not ever expected to fight. All of their defining equipment is bureaucratic, with sidearms being more of a 'here's if someone wants to kill you' rather than a requirement of the job, and they should not be treated like some Head of Staff expected to take charge in an emergency. I'll stand by every desired change I stated except Detective.

[DickFreedomJohnson]

10 minutes ago, niennab said:

Somewhat unrelated to the topic at hand but would the server benefit by instead having hearing aids that are able to hear the radio frequency as well as a text-to-speech box of the same nature? I feel it would clear up some of the issues as well as open up the possibilities for other not-so-emergency services roles that are otherwise barred from having some disabilities currently.

one step ahead of you, I have Geeves working on the TTS device (an implant) and a new hearing implant. Both hearing devices will be able to work with radios

Edited March 15, 2021 by DickFreedomJohnson

[greenjoe]

I'd feel that pharmacists should be okay with being Heavily Movement Impaired, as they're just working in the chemistry lab and moving medicines into the fridge, which should be reasonable for them to do in a wheelchair.

I'd also think that regular scientists doing work in the R&D lab would be okay with being in a wheelchair, as they're not doing any specialist work that requires more moving around like a toxins researcher or archaeologist would be doing.

[ImmortalRedshirt]

Not sure how I feel about the speech requirement in Science. On this server, we have multiple alternatives to speaking, including, but not limited to:

• Writing
• PDA messages
• Integrated Electronics
• Emotes for more basic things
• Two sign languages

I personally believe a scientist or roboticist character could get away with some of the more severe levels if they knew what they were doing.

[CourierBravo]

My only major complaint is the exclusion of mute individuals in science roles that they dont need to talk in, or if they do, they have the tools at their fingertips to make TTS equipment. Scientists and Roboticists would be two areas that I'd consider perfectly fine for a mute individual to be in. In terms of practical play, I never see science actually interact with the station outside of working with cargo. At most, security getting force gloves from them is all I see. Robotics interacts with the station more, but they also have just as much access to TTS equipment production, and their job requires very little in the way of really engaging with personnel as they mostly just fix people. Anything you work with the robotics department on can be achieved with TTS and paper just as quickly as verbal speech, especially if people are doing paperwork like they are supposed to in the first place.
That is also ignoring that sign, PDA, and emotes are a thing that people already use regularly instead of verbal speech, despite not needing to.

Aside from that, the wording of the command line is really ablist, as how its worded suggests that disabled people are not fit to lead. And its not like we dont have real world examples of people with severe mobility constraints leading perfectly fine. FDR was the president of the USA after all, I cannot imagine a Captain wheelchair bound by either disability or age would be an issue in any practical terms. However, I do agree that for roles like HoS and CE, being fully mobile would be required.

[MattAtlas]

If a job requires you to speak then it requires you to be able to speak at every minute - this is not a guarantee that you can have if you rely on TTS devices, so they will not be considered here.

[MattAtlas]

4 hours ago, Bejewledpot said:

I cannot imagine a Captain wheelchair bound by either disability or age would be an issue in any practical terms.

This would be a problem because they'd be unable to use the equipment that is assigned to them for their usage (the voidsuit). Additionally, certain Captain responsibilities such as the nuke require going up a ladder.

[ImmortalRedshirt]

On 16/03/2021 at 01:53, MattAtlas said:

If a job requires you to speak then it requires you to be able to speak at every minute - this is not a guarantee that you can have if you rely on TTS devices, so they will not be considered here.

This still neglects the four other methods I mentioned besides TTS circuits. Almost every room in science has paper and writing utensils, everyone has a PDA, anyone who designs a mute character properly gives them sign language, heck, even multiple characters who can speak know sign as well. Robotics is a very safe job compared to their bretheren in the rest of the department finding new and innovative ways to burn the entire station down. Situations where they would have to call out an emergency by speaking over the radio usually only ever happen during Secret, with threats that NT couldn't possibly predict occurring.

[MattAtlas]

4 minutes ago, ImmortalRedshirt said:

This still neglects the four other methods I mentioned besides TTS circuits. Almost every room in science has paper and writing utensils, everyone has a PDA, anyone who designs a mute character properly gives them sign language, heck, even multiple characters who can speak know sign as well. Robotics is a very safe job compared to their bretheren in the rest of the department finding new and innovative ways to burn the entire station down. Situations where they would have to call out an emergency by speaking over the radio usually only ever happen during Secret, with threats that NT couldn't possibly predict occurring.

Jobs that require immediate communication for things like patient care or diagnosis cannot be expected to use pen and paper in those situations for... obvious reasons -- it's too slow of a method, too clunky, does not work in emergencies. PDAs are a similiar thing - they require telecomms to work, which is again, not a guarantee. Sign language is similiarly not the lingua franca of the station and people other than the mute character cannot be expected to know it.

Quote

Situations where they would have to call out an emergency by speaking over the radio usually only ever happen during Secret, with threats that NT couldn't possibly predict occurring.

This is completely false, see: the presence of a nuke on station, an entire armory for security to use, engineering's emergency resources, every canon event in the last 4 years.

Edited March 17, 2021 by MattAtlas

[greenjoe]

I'd want to suggest that the mobility requirements for the pharmacist are looked at again, since I feel it's reasonable a pharmacist in a wheelchair could do their job okay.

I also suggest an extra section is added to the job accessibility requirements regarding vision: colorblindness and various forms of visual impairment. 

[Alberyk]

This was updated: https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Job_Accessibility_Requirements

Feel free to give more feedback.

Main changes:

Added Eyesight:

- Perfect: No colorblindness. Nearsightedness is allowed.

- Flawed: Nearsightedness and colorblindness are allowed.

- Blind: Blindness is allowed. Investigator needs perfect eyesight.

Everyone else can be flawed. Visitors, chaplains can be blind.

 

Hydroponicist: Heavily Movement Impaired / Mute / Impaired Hearing / Impaired

First Responder: Change Impaired speech to Minimal Speech Impediment

Chef: Change Impaired to Unimpaired

[Carver]

All of my previously stated feedback remains. The Consular isn't leading the crew in emergencies or doing anything that demands the same limitations as the rest of Command (so they ought to be allowed to be both limb-impaired and heavily movement-impaired); while the Janitor, Investigators and Cargo Technicians are both doing tiring physical work that demands them in passable shape (i.e mobility unimpaired) as the former two are getting down and dirty in crime scenes/messes while the latter is physically hauling heavy crates around and about.