Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 Mechanically eating, smoking, or injecting ambrosia has little mechanical consequence save the toxin damage, but this is easily treatable. The long-short of this proposal is that ambrosia is mechanically equivalent to low strength alcohol. It doesn't make you slur your words horribly, so you can even walk and talk. The contraband nature of it is a legacy feature. It should be treated similarly to alcohol - you ingesting it is not a problem, but if you become a problem then you fall into issues with security. Ambrosia is a low risk, mundane drug. In the modern world drugs similar to it are illegal in the US (our majority demographic) because of the War on Drugs and Reefer Madness scares. It's not consistent to have our setting bound by +460 year old drug policies but at the same time provide free alcohol and an endless supply of cigarettes, both of which have incredible health risks. We banned ambrosia but smile upon a raging alcoholic smoking an entire pack of cigarettes, thus ending up with a failing liver and cancer. Especially when ambrosia leaves are filled with bicardine and kelotane. Ambrosia should not be considered contraband in regulations. Contraband should remain things that are illegal because they are dangerous. It should not need a prescription, because it's low risk and has less serious health hazards than alcohol. Abusing it should be treated as a health issue. Using it while actively on a sensitive job (Command, security, EMT) should be heavily frowned upon. It can be considered neglect of duty if it makes them struggle at their job. All possible (and recorded) problems with being a silly goose with ambrosia is easily covered by regulations. The only alternatives that would make ambrosia's status make sense is if we removed the bar or made ambrosia more dangerous. Both of these options are silly, and so is the current status quo where it's legal to grow it but illegal to do anything else with it.
Synnono Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 420 blaze it smoke weed erryday buds in hydro when
Scheveningen Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 Here are the major problems at the moment. /datum/seed/ambrosia name = "ambrosia" seed_name = "ambrosia vulgaris" display_name = "ambrosia vulgaris" mutants = list("ambrosiadeus") chems = list("nutriment" = list(1), "space_drugs" = list(1,8), "kelotane" = list(1,8,1), "bicaridine" = list(1,10,1), "toxin" = list(1,10)) kitchen_tag = "ambrosia" Ambrosia is poisonous. Ambrosia would need to be changed to be not toxic in order to be declassified as a dangerous narcotic. Ambrosia also has an overdose limit, or at least, "space_drugs", does.
Wiebman Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 smoke dank kush weed mari jane w eed ksh dru u gs
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 smoke dank kush weed mari jane w eed ksh dru u gs Thank you.
Skull132 Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 Here's the more fun part of this. "space_drugs" = list(1,8) Means you get space drugs out of ambrosia when ground up and inspected. Mechanical confirmation that ambrosia == space drugs, just with a very low concentration. And with the latter most certainly remaining outlawed, it makes you thunk.
Chada1 Posted April 22, 2017 Posted April 22, 2017 Here's the more fun part of this. "space_drugs" = list(1,8) Means you get space drugs out of ambrosia when ground up and inspected. Mechanical confirmation that ambrosia == space drugs, just with a very low concentration. And with the latter most certainly remaining outlawed, it makes you thunk. As Skull said here, the part of Ambrosia that makes you hallucinate is Probably Space Drugs. it would become very hard to tell if you smoked Ambrosia or if you injected Space Drugs when tested. I can see a bunch of people being arrested falsely for Space Drugs, when what they did was entirely legal. A fix for this would be altering Ambrosia to use a different Hallucinogen with no overdose, making it more similar to Marijuana. But, if this were ever going to be done, it would probably be during a Chem rework of some kind, it seems nonsensical to alter Ambrosia by itself. I wouldn't be against the concept, though. Also, Jackboot you meme you posted this on 4/20!!!
Korinra Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 It's a space station, not a rave. I mean honestly the mechanics to make it legal isn't the problem. Why even have it in the game if it's legal? It doesn't serve much purpose, the idea is that it's an RP catalyst. Yeah, you can get high through a number of different methods on SS13, all of them to varying degrees of success. However, the cheapest easiest high is Ambrosia. It's readily available, widely accepted, and you can simply eat it as it's harvested to get the effect, no equipment required. If you eliminate it as a drug though, you eliminate it as an RP catalyst. Now you're not a drug-user who the police are looking for, your nametag #13. You're not trying to hide your addiction on the D/L, or smuggling it to people, you're opening a shop front outside of the garden. The IC reasoning behind it being illegal isn't "because it's harmful", though that's part of it. Consider, as a botanist, your MAIN objective would be to provide food staples for the chef to cook for the crew. Sure mechanically speaking you can do both, but the idea that you're using station resources to produce personal drugs is ICly inappropriate. Now here's an idea that might make it acceptable, but it's a much bigger long shot. If CCIA decided that the drug was harmless enough in small doses that all crew members would be permitted a ration of it to take at their own discretion, it would become the botanist's job to see to it there is enough for everyone to have their legally permitted amount. However, this brings about a HUGE host of IC nightmares. For everyone who doesn't take their ration, they will likely give it away or flush it. Now we have overly addicted cargo techs and no way to identify that problem without due cause to search them. Sorry but the idea is to add RP to RP servers, and this removes RP. -1 from me.
LordFowl Posted June 20, 2017 Posted June 20, 2017 [mention]ForgottenTraveller[/mention] As a purely regulation issues, it sounds like something more in your ballpark.
witchbells Posted June 20, 2017 Posted June 20, 2017 I would advocate for this, if we changed ambrosia to be a non-toxic substance.
Skull132 Posted June 20, 2017 Posted June 20, 2017 Also summoning [mention]Garnascus[/mention] and [mention]Shadow[/mention] to participate in this.
Garnascus Posted June 20, 2017 Posted June 20, 2017 I do not really have a strong opinion here. I wouldn't mind either way. What exactly do we get out of making it legal?
NoahKirchner Posted June 20, 2017 Posted June 20, 2017 I feel like making ambrosia legal, especially after having taken into account skull's bit, would sort of rule out a fair few gameplay gimmicks. Right now if you get antag, you could literally set up shop as a drug dealer and start dealing space drugs from botany when nobody's looking. I'd also assume that any sort of hallucinogen would be illegal on a space station on which people are working (At the same time, I would assume the same about booze, though)
NebulaFlare Posted June 20, 2017 Posted June 20, 2017 How about ambrosia is illegal unless it's been specially treated to remove the toxins? I recall a botanist did that once.
DatBerry Posted June 20, 2017 Posted June 20, 2017 you will need a prescription from the psych for ambrosia, this will make it used more often, but still an abuseable drug. obviously the prescription will require an anti toxin pill with it too.
ForgottenTraveller Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 There is a lot of focus on the toxins, and so there should be, lets talk about the other reagent of note in there. Space drugs, which any chemist can also manufacture. I would start shifting happy pills (contraband through cargo), liberty caps (same as ambrosia but safe to eat, only containing soporific) and manufactured space drugs (contraband through chem) to the legal area too due to the same contents. Alternatively we do have a drug that only occurs naturally, psilocybin found in reishi and could be made safe through processed fly amanita and destroying angels. Which while currently technically contraband. So, instead of talking about the toxins. Convince me to make space drugs legal. [mention]Senpai Jackboot[/mention]
Kaed Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 Why do we even still have ambrosia, other than as a legacy of the 'lol drugs!!!' days of SS13? Can't we just remove it from the machines and consign it into the depths of 'stupid joke mechanics' hell, alongside clowns, mimes, and honkmechs, and being able to cause brain damage/healing by hitting people with a bible? Perhaps you can replace it with something less stupid, like tobacco, which is already legal on station, or marijuana, which is barely even illegal in 2017 and probably would be entirely not a controversial issue 500 years in the future when there are more important things to worry about.
Outboarduniform Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 Can't we just pull a Baystation and only make Concentrated Ambrosia illegal ? Concentrated Ambrosia being Space Drugs, that is.
ForgottenTraveller Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 Outboard. Happy pills is cut with sugar, making them legal too, same with liberty caps, and chem could cut it with anything.
Rushodan Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 Quick sidenote that if certain drugs are legal - security will need additional training on how to deal with druggies - as well as working out if the drugs taken are legal or not. Its all well and good to say this type is, and this type isnt but when it comes to regulations its another story. An additional regulation regarding drugs which is separate from contraband may be required, which allows any officer that suspects an individual of taking illegal narcotics to order them to report to the medical bay for a blood test. This could add some more RP to security which is always nice, and could even lead to some situations with tator chemists/officers making false blood tests on people with certain roles to get them demoted. *EDIT - This regulation should include ALL drugs that could alter perception in relation to certain roles. Anyone that handles weapons/heavy machinery/dangerous substances/sensitive information should be eligible for demotion when drunk or high including command roles.
NebulaFlare Posted June 21, 2017 Posted June 21, 2017 In our real world, cigarettes and alcohol are legal, while marijuana is generally not. Marijuana is technically safer than cigarettes or alcohol, which is quite ironic. Keep in mind the politics involved in making drugs illegal, as opposed to simple health benefits and concerns. It's easier for NT to just 'ban all' and be done with it. On the flipside, if they can profit drug trade (which I bet they can) and give employees methods to grow and cleanse the drugs of harmful side effects, they can look like real progressive people and earn good publicity. What if drugs were used as a reward incentive, and were only legal on the station? Or the opposite, they're all banned to avoid people ODing and crashing their mechs into each other. Lotsa rules are gonna need to be considered to make this happen.
DatBerry Posted June 24, 2017 Posted June 24, 2017 legalizing pot has absolutely no good RP benefits than "lmao weed dude xdddd" stereotypes increasing and conflict RP regarding drugs dropping. It would be much better if it was added to the gardener/chef access vendor, and allowed to be prescribed by the psychologist/psychiatrist. This will: A: make ambrosia more used B: keep the drug abuse/trafficking/sale viable for the conflict value C: give the psych job more shit to do (they seriously need more attention) all the arguments I've hard in the thread are "but it makes sense to legalize it!! it's like pot!!" "it has medicine in it!!" the medicine in it can overdose, and with alberyk's new OD update WILL kill you, and maybe set you on fire. No one has argued what kind of roleplay this encourages other than pot heads getting a right to be annoyance. Fully legalizing ambrosia will: A: encourage mass production of drugs available to crew B: lmao duude weed xdddddd C: crew overdosing and fucking dying D: easier access to advanced chemicals like bicardine and dermaline, usually found in very small units (1, 2u) in other plants, apparently is around 7-8u in ambrosia. Either make this prescribed or keep it illegal, because it's shitty for both IC and OOC reasons to fully legalize it.
AWPen Posted June 24, 2017 Posted June 24, 2017 This is a cool idea as long its prescription, gives the chance for drug trades to still develop.
NoahKirchner Posted June 24, 2017 Posted June 24, 2017 Prescriptions won't solve the problems of people RP'ing druggies. They'll just say that they have a prescription for it, get it, and then act like they use it recreation-ally. In all honesty, this post seems like a political statement about the legalization of marijuana (Which is being used interchangeably with ambrosia) more than a gameplay suggestion. Ambrosia has some very negative side effects, things that would make it illegal because it could very easily kill you if you smoked too much of it,and it contains space drugs, a very potent hallucinogen, something which I would assume would most definitely not be allowed on a space station. That being said, maybe a way to fit it in with the psychiatrist could work, but maybe not with ambrosia.
UnknownMurder Posted June 24, 2017 Posted June 24, 2017 legalizing pot has absolutely no good RP benefits than "lmao weed dude xdddd" stereotypes increasing and conflict RP regarding drugs dropping. It would be much better if it was added to the gardener/chef access vendor, and allowed to be prescribed by the psychologist/psychiatrist. This will: A: make ambrosia more used B: keep the drug abuse/trafficking/sale viable for the conflict value C: give the psych job more shit to do (they seriously need more attention) all the arguments I've hard in the thread are "but it makes sense to legalize it!! it's like pot!!" "it has medicine in it!!" the medicine in it can overdose, and with alberyk's new OD update WILL kill you, and maybe set you on fire. No one has argued what kind of roleplay this encourages other than pot heads getting a right to be annoyance. Fully legalizing ambrosia will: A: encourage mass production of drugs available to crew B: lmao duude weed xdddddd C: crew overdosing and fucking dying D: easier access to advanced chemicals like bicardine and dermaline, usually found in very small units (1, 2u) in other plants, apparently is around 7-8u in ambrosia. Either make this prescribed or keep it illegal, because it's shitty for both IC and OOC reasons to fully legalize it. I am in complete agreement with DatBerry here above as we share the same thoughts on this suggestion.
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