[Cancelled] ANNOUNCEMENT - Tajaran Colors

[Mofo1995]

Recently it has been brought to my attention that 71% of all Tajara characters on server have a color which does not match any of the approved colors for Tajara found on the wiki. That's A LOT. With this in mind, it is pretty clear that majority of the members of the Tajaran community have some degree of dissatisfaction with the currently approved colors. There's a few ways we could go about this. My initial reaction was to start enforcing the pre-approved colors since the race of a Tajara is supposed to be quickly and easily identifiable by the color of their fur. But I think this might be better served as an opportunity to expand a little bit and toss the community some leeway given the proportion of characters not "in compliance."

Here's my plan:

• I would like suggestions of RGB values to add ONE more approved color to each race.
  
• Each character may have a fur color which is within 10 RGB points of one of the approved colors.
  
  
  
  STRETCH GOAL:
  
• I am considering adding one approved color per possible combination of mixed race.
  

 

I have labelled the last bullet point as a stretch goal since I might get cold feet about it. After all, it would mean adding 6 more colors to the Tajara in addition to the 4 I'm already shooting for, making a grand total of 10 new colors with 6 of them allowing for a character whose race would not be quickly evident.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Guest

[Snakebittenn]

Can we add 10/10/10 to Zhan? It looks nice on them, and it fits the dark fur they have.

Also, what's the guidelines on the new body markings?

[Alberyk]

I think it is because people do believe that said colors are more like guidelines, instead of being something you must follow. I see little issues with people coming up with their own variation of the base colors, as long it is not something like a black m'sai or a the like. For example, among unathi players, there is no real RGB indication of what unathi can be, and we rarely have issues with players being dumb with colors or something.

I don't see much reason to enforce people to follow said colors, as long they keep in the range of them, follow the tajaran ethnicities theme and don't do something dumb (which are the minor cases here), there is little reason to do that. Besides, any people doing something really dumb could be handled like other regular whitelist infraction.

So, I think things are fine as they are. I have no trouble in figuring out the ethnicity of most of our tajara's character just by looking at them, I feel that enforcing everyone to follow sanctioned colors is not needed, because, there is little to no problem with that, the tajara players are not really ignoring this aspect of the species.

[SierraKomodo]

I think it is because people do believe that said colors are more like guidelines, instead of being something you must follow. I see little issues with people coming up with their own variation of the base colors, as long it is not something like a black m'sai or a the like. For example, among unathi players, there is no real RGB indication of what unathi can be, and we rarely have issues with players being dumb with colors or something.

I don't see much reason to enforce people to follow said colors, as long they keep in the range of them, follow the tajaran ethnicities theme and don't do something dumb (which are the minor cases here), there is little reason to do that. Besides, any people doing something really dumb could be handled like other regular whitelist infraction.

So, I think things are fine as they are. I have no trouble in figuring out the ethnicity of most of our tajara's character just by looking at them, I feel that enforcing everyone to follow sanctioned colors is not needed, because, there is little to no problem with that, the tajara players are not really ignoring this aspect of the species.

 

This is essentially how I figured it worked, back when I was making my tajara characters. I based things off the provided colors (Less by number and more by 'Ok, this is orange. This is brown.' etc etc, and used some level of RNG to select colors for some of my characters (Upwards to 20 points in either direction in the R, G, and B categories). Also keep in mind I have a few characters that aren't a pure bred ethnicity. Miraj, for example, is half njarir and half hharaar. Her fur color (Peach) is a mixture of a hharaar's lighter brown, almost tan and a njarir's more colorful coat. I personally tried to avoid just outright copy+pasting the colors from the wiki, because fur colors/tones would be slightly varied. We don't have 4 exact skin tones for humans, or 8 exact fur colorations for cats irl.

Also I don't think you've ever brought up an issue with any of my characters, fur color wise, despite the fact that none of them would fit the requirement you're proposing for deviation from an approved color.

[Garnascus]

no pink cats!

[Synnono]

no pink cats!

It's time for pink cats, Mofo.

To make mine less of a stupid post, though -

I agree with Alberyk mainly. It makes sense that there would be variation in fur color based on minor factors like age or environment or genetic variation. If anything I'd want to see acceptable 'ranges' defined if we're updating the definition, though with six values in our color picker that may be harder to do.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Guest

[Mofo1995]

Here's the thing that makes me unwilling to go Laissez-Faire with colors: it makes enforcement nearly impossible. While most people have been good about selecting believable colors for their races, the scenario I don't want is someone in the future going with something bizarre, like an M'sai colored Zhan or even just an off-the wall color and insisting that some set of circumstances makes it acceptable. It would be better to put something in stone even if it's loose rather than just going by a "does it look good enough?" system which is open to exploitation. With the exception of pink cats, players have been good about not going crazy with their Tajara, but I still want race to be quickly and easily identifiable by merit of color. The RGB value deviation should encompass mix-races as they would ultimately look more like the race that they are through some combination of dominant and recessive genes than the one they're mixed with. For instance, if someone has selected M'sai Tajara as their character race, and go walking around with Cinnamon and Black tabby stripes to look like a nobleman and claim mix race as the reason, I would request they select an M'sai color.

If the current rules changes I proposed are not acceptable or too strict, that's fine. I can expand them further to allow for more customization. BUT I still want to expand the amount of acceptable colors per race, and I still want there to be rules there so that enforcement isn't arbitrary. So, I repropose the following:

• RGB deviation range increased from 10 to 30
• Fur patterns allowed for all races (At the time of my OP, I had not seen that fur patterns were added! While Njarir are the ones who are supposed to have them most commonly, it's still possible for other Tajara so it's open.)
  
• Still waiting on suggestions for new colors for each race! Instead of narrowing it down to one per race, I'll accept as many as I like so long as it doesn't look too much like one of the already existing colors. Black is being added to Zhan since there are already many black Zhan in the community and even on the wiki!
   
  

[SierraKomodo]

To try and help visualize things and what not, I went ahead and got screen caps of the colors listed on the wiki, and of my own tajaran characters for comparison and such. From the wiki itself:

Hharaar:

Beaver Brown (RGB 159, 139, 112)

 

Kochiba (RGB 107, 68, 35)

 

Taupe (RGB 72, 60, 50)

 

Zhan-Khazaan:

Blue-Grey (RGB 34, 37, 50)

Fun-fact: Depending on your monitor color settings, this one looks like a blueberry.

 

Dark Gray (RGB 30, 30, 30)

 

Chocolate (RGB 94, 38, 18)

 

Njarir'Akhran:

Orange (RGB 238, 64, 0)

 

Cinnamon (RGB 160, 82, 45)

 

Ruddy (RGB 138, 54, 15)

 

Cream (RGB 205, 175, 149)

 

M'sai:

White (RGB 238, 223, 204)

(Spooky ghost)

 

Ivory (RGB 205, 205, 192)

 

Wheat (RGB 205, 186, 150)

 

Silver (RGB 192, 192, 192)

 

And now my (current) characters, with a note on their ethnicities:

D'ar'rhe "Andre" Mia'Asika'Zar (96, 75, 25)

Essentially a 'mutt'. He's got a bit of all four ethnicities in him. I also RNG'd this colour by randomizing a value of -20 to +20 for each color value... I can't remember what I based it off though.

 

Azaela Nejem (153, 51, 0)

100% Njarir, with the high and mighty attitude to go with it.

 

Miraj Zi'Ad (202, 168, 137)

Thinks she's 100% njarir. She's actually part hharaar.

 

Rasine Ha'kim (24, 30, 39)

100% zhan. Nasir's sister.

 

Sai'da Karim-Sur'kov (102, 72, 26)

Another mutt, minus the m'sai blood.

 

Zakiya Ahmad (162, 162, 175)

Half m'sai, half zhan (Like the blue tinge to her fur?)

 

Ziva Ta'kim (131, 111, 65)

Half hharaar, half zhan

[Bygonehero]

Why so many cat beasts, kill them all I say

[sonicgotnuked]

You know that bright orange is really silly to have as a default fur color.

[sonicgotnuked]

it makes enforcement nearly impossible. While most people have been good about selecting believable colors for their races, the scenario I don't want is someone in the future going with something bizarre, like an M'sai colored Zhan or even just an off-the wall color

 

This is pretty much a common sense thing that someone reading the wiki and has a Whitelist should know. If they color their m'sai cat black or something like that, then they should be contacted. I don't see why we need something like this to set in stone. If you play a black-blue cat, pick Zhan sub speicies, white m'sai, etc.

I don't see how it makes enforcement nearly impossible, because everyone should know.

[Bygonehero]

it makes enforcement nearly impossible. While most people have been good about selecting believable colors for their races, the scenario I don't want is someone in the future going with something bizarre, like an M'sai colored Zhan or even just an off-the wall color

 

This is pretty much a common sense thing that someone reading the wiki and has a Whitelist should know. If they color their m'sai cat black or something like that, then they should be contacted. I don't see why we need something like this to set in stone. If you play a black-blue cat, pick Zhan sub speicies, white m'sai, etc.

I don't see how it makes enforcement nearly impossible, because everyone should know.

 

It makes enforcement impossible because nobody's ever ahelped for having snowflake color cats and do you know which species loves being snowflake? Tajarians. This is basicly the administration trying to fight back against them snowflaking themselves into pink cats and if nothing is done, indeed if it's not kept in stone then people will continue to push what is acceptable and what is not. This will continue until the entire point of setting standards becomes meaningless.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

If we do not draw a line then we will not know where that line exists. One of the main themes, and arguably the primary theme, is the relationships and status of the ethnicities of Adhomai. It doesn't seem much to ask that Tajara follow the color schemes set out for them; it seems one of the minimum levels of investment you need to build the character. I, myself, realized Jawdat, my only Tajara character, was off-color and brought him back to the fold.

[Synnono]

One of the main themes, and arguably the primary theme, is the relationships and status of the ethnicities of Adhomai.

 

I agree that this is important, but would prefer that the theme manifest itself in ways that are a little more relevant than a selection of 2-3 fur colors. I don't see what is stopping enforcement by allowing a small amount of visual creativity in variation. There are at least two people on the lore team who can say "oh hey, this Tajara is a bit too neon blue for my tastes" and have it be the valid decision to force a change.

What is gained by the stricter policy, other than a first-sight determination of ethnicity by people who have bothered to memorize them (and are not colorblind)? How will enforcement work more effectively if we leave it to a small range of values if the same people are responsible for it either way? And if we do leave it strict, what are the new guidelines for the body markings as someone asked earlier in the thread?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

It's not a more strict policy in my view, but enforcing what is already expected. You are still given plenty of leeway in your RGB coloration. I encourage you to +/- within 30 points of your base color requirement to see how it is still very generous.

[SierraKomodo]

In my half-asleep stupor, I've thought of a compromise between what Mofo wants to accomplish and my own concerns with this system. Implement the lore restriction on being within 20 or 30 points of any of the ethnicity's listed colors. But also allow a sort of pseudo-approval process for colors that fall outside of these numbers for specific cases (Including grandfathering in previously accepted tajara, or cases of cross-ethnicity characters with a fur color somewhere between A and B).

I'm too tired right now to properly put together examples and would probably forget this idea by the time I wake up tomorrow, but hopefully the idea comes across in a somewhat understandable manner

[Fire and Glory]

I'm too tired right now to properly put together examples and would probably forget this idea by the time I wake up tomorrow, but hopefully the idea comes across in a somewhat understandable manner

 

I actually mentioned something like this on discord, though it wasn't responded to.

 

Fire and Glory - Today at 4:59 PM

@Mofo1995 wot if, along with the color threshold thing, it'd be possible to obtain your purrmission to use a color if it is outside the designated colors? (note, what I meant here was making a color and showing it to mofo and then playing as it, as opposed to making a color and showing it to mofo and then have it added to the wiki)

So long as it, y'know, actually looks like that ethnicity

Fire and Glory - Today at 5:00 PM

If we're considering ethnicity identification to be the purroblem.(edited)

The rest of this isn't directly related to the topic here as Sierra is suggesting quirks of genetics as opposed to just bringing your fur color to the loreguy and have them go "yup that's a zhan" but I'll just leave it here anyway.

 

I like to tweak colors more than a little to give me the feeling that my cats look moderately unique(edited)

And I get the uncomfortable feeling of looking a lot like other cats I've seen with this

 

Compared to this

 

 

Even though the 'officially dark-kitty' one is lighter colored than mine (and has an easier chance to be mistaken for Njarir)(edited)

 

I certainly wouldn't be disappointed if that was done.

Shrug.

[Scheveningen]

I personally don't mind if some kats are still within a certain RGB spectrum of targeted colors for variety's sake. The difference between two catfolks could be as simple as light beige or dark beige.

Obviously if some cats look ridiculous with their color and it's not even lore supported/doesn't make sense for a fur coat to look a certain color, we can speak to folks to simply correct the issue and we'll pass it around the chain for Mofo to hear.

Orange looks bad tho. remov.

[Mofo1995]

A few new developments! Pictures of Tajara with each RGB combination will be added to the wiki tonight so that people have a visual reference to go on when picking. Namely the pictures Sierra posted will be used.

Additionally, there haven't been any suggestions for new colors other than Sierra's cross species colors. If people chime in and think they look nice, they'll be canonized. Dont be shy to propose colors which your Tajara already are if theyre out of the 30 point flex range.

Another note I wanted to touch up on is enforcement. No one is going to be sitting around coming through to find non-compliance. So long as your Tajara looks believable or you're not disguising as another race, you'll probably get by even if not following the rules. However, if a Tajara looks far enough off for its color to be looked up, they're going to be asked to change it.

On the subject of grandfathering: its highly tempting but I feel as though a policy which favors older players' older characters could be viewed negatively. If people are wanting to push for it anyways, nows the time to let it be known.

Enforcement of the new rules have not begun yet since theyre still being worked out. Ill give everyone 2 weeks notice for when I want them to begin phasing into proper colors.

Edit: Do we actually want to replace orange? Anyone opposed?

[SierraKomodo]

Edit: Do we actually want to replace orange? Anyone opposed?

 

Tone down the vibrance a bit. Something more akin to the color I used for Azaela Nejem would be better than Chester the Cheeta- Tajara

Here's the RGB code if you want to tinker with it: 153, 51, 0

[Alberyk]

Keep the orange as it is.

[Fire and Glory]

Edit: Do we actually want to replace orange? Anyone opposed?

It does look a bit intense to me but I'd honestly need to see it in-game to make a proper opinion.

Although...if M'sai can be so intensely white, Njarir can probably get away with being so orange.

[Mofo1995]

After a month of consideration, and the realization that the wiki says and has always said: "X Group usual coloration" I've realized that given the semantics of the situation, there was clearly meant to be leeway when deciding Tajara colors. So long as your Tajara isn't something ridiculous, you can have relative freedom deciding what colors you want your catbeasts to be without having to keep track of RGB variance. IT's for the best anyways, as it was clear very quickly how wildly unpopular the proposed changes were.

On a side note, using the pictures Sierra uploaded as well as one of my own, the pictures of the common colorations are now up on the wiki for visual reference. This can serve as either a list of options to choose from or a visual guide for the types of colors which are Tajaran in nature.

Also, I can't tell if Sierra accidentally uploaded the same picture twice, or if their RGB values are just really that close, but the Wiki thought that the Wheat picture and the Cream picture were duplicates when I uploaded them. It was amusing, but lore wise, I think it's a nice tie in to how M'sai and Njarir were the power team throughout history.

[SierraKomodo]

Also, I can't tell if Sierra accidentally uploaded the same picture twice, or if their RGB values are just really that close, but the Wiki thought that the Wheat picture and the Cream picture were duplicates when I uploaded them. It was amusing, but lore wise, I think it's a nice tie in to how M'sai and Njarir were the power team throughout history.

 

My mistake when linking the images. This one is the wheat coloration:

[Skull132]

> [CANCELLED]

Time to shitpost.

https://kama.skullnet.me/index.php/s/QHirgdiG0ku9T9W

I love the eye-break this induces.