[Ron] Limitations on Mining Rewards

[Kaed]

There's apparently a thing that pays miners to upgrade their equipment.

It also dispenses pizzas.

 

 

It does not dispense any kind of logical limitation on the number of pizzas you can generate.

I assume there are probably other things that need to have a hard cap placed, so miners don't just buy 1000 pizzas and scream that it's their money they can buy more pizzas than they will ever need so they can tile cargo with them.

[sonicgotnuked]

Eh, I wouldn't want to place a limit on something that is the reason why mining does mining. What happens when you run out of stuff to buy? That stuff takes work to get, and science and cargo is happy because of it. Who cares if a miner buys 1000 pizzas, it can just run under a meme of new mining. Who knows, it can just fabricate it off of energy or bluespace. Now if they start abusing that, then I can see admin intervention like any other thing on the server and possibly a mining job ban.

[Lady_of_Ravens]

That's absurd, even by the standards of the party cargo bay.

[Kaed]

Eh, I wouldn't want to place a limit on something that is the reason why mining does mining. What happens when you run out of stuff to buy? That stuff takes work to get, and science and cargo is happy because of it. Who cares if a miner buys 1000 pizzas, it can just run under a meme of new mining. Who knows, it can just fabricate it off of energy or bluespace. Now if they start abusing that, then I can see admin intervention like any other thing on the server and possibly a mining job ban.

 

We're trying to run a roleplay server here, last time I checked, not create new memes. I care if they buy 1000 pizzas, because they're turning the cargo bay into a visual prop comedy on an ooc level. Is there any logical reason why you think piling hundreds of questionably obtained pizzas all over the workplace would contribute to the immersion of the round? People would be tripping all over them, stepping in greasy pizza, it would be a safety hazard in any situation where they're not just inert objects you can walk over simply because game mechanics say so.

If they're bored and finished mining, they can go mingle with the crew, like normal people do, rather than spamming object spawns. They buy the pizzas as a reward to EAT. People generally share five-packs of pizzas, not tile floors with them.

[Arrow768]

Yes, I also believe that limiting the number of available pizzas in the dispenser to 999 is a good idea.

Yes, it should be limited but no so that its restricting, just so much that it doesnt become meme level.

[AllyBearsley]

I don't think people want to reduce down to something below 20, but maybe you know something where you can't rebuild the station out of pizza. Even though that sounds delicious.

[Fire and Glory]

I'd be okay with any limitation really, if you want to stuff yourself you can always mass-order from cargo or just eat the liquidfood rations.

Though if we want to stop miners from doing dumb-looking shit, it should probably be within 5-20 imo.

[Synnono]

Though if we want to stop miners from doing dumb-looking shit, it should probably be within 5-20 imo.

If we collectively want this to stop, we could probably do with mentioning it to the player printing a trillion pizzas, rather than altering the machine so that that one player can't do that one thing. The player is just likely to find another method to assert themselves on the round that others may find just as annoying.

It's ahelpable if you believe that someone is making an OOC meme of things, and modmins ask players to do this when they see it so that they can enforce the rules. I think that changing the game's devices mechanically to try and alter behavior isn't the best approach; the machine is not the problem, it's just one way the problem manifests itself.

[Kaed]

Uuh. I can't think of a single reason why you would need 20 pizzas in a round for any reason other than trolling, much less more than that. I don't actually see any reason why we should leave it and put people on the 'honor system' to not be shitters with it. Just go to the kitchen if you're hungry, instead of abusing a game mechanic to make it more completely pointless than it already is.

[Ornias]

This stuff should definitely be bwoinkworthy, even as an antagonist. Not to mention the cargo tech/QM running around in the xenomorph suit. It's not immersive, it's not interesting, it's just a quick OOC chuckle.

That said, implementing a hard limit will create difficulties later, I'm almost sure of it. Just bwoink people who abuse it, and maybe provide a log to staff when a certain milestone is passed (20 pizzas ordered).

[Scheveningen]

It's just pizza. Yes, it is a lot of pizza. But it's just pizza.

Limit it to one box per purchase, fine. It's not really a complex issue beyond that, though, no need to make it something that it isn't.

[Fire and Glory]

It's ahelpable if you believe that someone is making an OOC meme of things,

Only half the time.

I am sure if I ever ahelped about someone generating pizza all over cargo I would get told it is an IC issue because of some crap involving miners getting a lot of points and the dispenser not actually having a limit and thus it is all fine.

[BRAINOS]

> every single day a qm has to peel a fallen miner off of the asteroid because the one department that deals with dangerous pits the most doesn't start with magboots

> let's talk about pizzas

Now that I got that outta the way, I just wanna say I definitely agree, there should be a solid stock of ten at round start. Any QM worth spending a round with won't have any issues ordering a 20 point pizza crate to feed the hard workers in Supply, so this is one item I don't mind limiting, even if it might run out now and then.

The rest of the items in there? No, don't limit magboots or jetpacks or RIGs.

As someone who's worked a shitload of Cargo this was definitely an obvious, one time thing that doesn't happen repeatedly - changing game mechanics because one guy broke immersion one time is going to set a precedent where all that ever gets worked on is gonna be tiny tweaks for the next hundred years.

Thrown drinks should spill and you shouldn't be able to put unwrapped food into a backpack without a goddamn mess, but there are more important and enjoyable things to worry about.

While I have no problem with the "fix" itself and wouldn't hurt much if it were implemented, I don't want any of the coders to spend more than five minutes just to prevent a one time thing becoming a two time thing.

[Resilynn]

I was QM this round, and holy fuck was this annoying. It was distracting, it was immersion breaking. I wasn't sure if I could ahelp or not over it, but man I was mad. Limit this shit to 20.

[Resilynn]

> every single day a qm has to peel a fallen miner off of the asteroid because the one department that deals with dangerous pits the most doesn't start with magboots

> let's talk about pizzas

Now that I got that outta the way, I just wanna say I definitely agree, there should be a solid stock of ten at round start. Any QM worth spending a round with won't have any issues ordering a 20 point pizza crate to feed the hard workers in Supply, so this is one item I don't mind limiting, even if it might run out now and then.

The rest of the items in there? No, don't limit magboots or jetpacks or RIGs.

As someone who's worked a shitload of Cargo this was definitely an obvious, one time thing that doesn't happen repeatedly - changing game mechanics because one guy broke immersion one time is going to set a precedent where all that ever gets worked on is gonna be tiny tweaks for the next hundred years.

Thrown drinks should spill and you shouldn't be able to put unwrapped food into a backpack without a goddamn mess, but there are more important and enjoyable things to worry about.

While I have no problem with the "fix" itself and wouldn't hurt much if it were implemented, I don't want any of the coders to spend more than five minutes just to prevent a one time thing becoming a two time thing.

 

It's been about a three times this week thing.

[idioch]

Is it not possible to make the pizzas show up on the shuttle, like the industrial drill. It kinda seems odd to have the miners machine dispensing already cooked food. At least that way it'd be a little more realistic, and add some control for the QM. Seems like this should be doable?

[Diggey]

We're trying to run a roleplay server here, last time I checked, not create new memes.

Last time I checked Mining was creating statues of themselves and placing them in elevators

Abuse of position should be handles by staff,not hardcoded out of the game

limiting the ability of a fabricator just sucks out the actual thing you are doing

it is well within roleplay to do stupid shit as well

Like really stupid shit

We're in the year 2400+

We're in a bumfuck nowhere station

everyone employed here might have a formal education,but that doesn't mean we do serious business

The fact that we don't do serious business is the HoPs problem,not the coders problem.

[AllyBearsley]

Yeah no I disagree with almost everything you have there or find it incredibly irrelevant [mention]Diggey[/mention] EXCEPT maybe agreeing this could be more of a staff issue than code issue.

[MoondancerPony]

1) A cooldown would probably work better than a hard cap.

2) This kind of thing is happening recently. Someone filled every tile outside of Research with sausage, and went around force-feeding people. This is more of a player issue and less of a code issue; we shouldn't try to moderate bad players by punishing the good players.

[AllyBearsley]

1) A cooldown would probably work better than a hard cap.

2) This kind of thing is happening recently. Someone filled every tile outside of Research with sausage, and went around force-feeding people. This is more of a player issue and less of a code issue; we shouldn't try to moderate bad players by punishing the good players.

 

A cooldown sounds pretty good, and understanding this is probably more of a staff issue is also good. I don't really see how this is a punishment worthy of bringing up. I don't see any one person needing more than 20 pizzas per round for any reason. However, I can understand if you are saying that in a more general sense, "Let's not code things for player issues," which could later actually punish people in bad ways.

[nodnodnod]

Though if we want to stop miners from doing dumb-looking shit, it should probably be within 5-20 imo.

If we collectively want this to stop, we could probably do with mentioning it to the player printing a trillion pizzas, rather than altering the machine so that that one player can't do that one thing. The player is just likely to find another method to assert themselves on the round that others may find just as annoying.

It's ahelpable if you believe that someone is making an OOC meme of things, and modmins ask players to do this when they see it so that they can enforce the rules. I think that changing the game's devices mechanically to try and alter behavior isn't the best approach; the machine is not the problem, it's just one way the problem manifests itself.

 

This. 100% this. This is a player issue more than anything else - and it's not even an issue that's really affecting anything severe in the round.

[Kaed]

See, this is a viewpoint I don't really get. Sure, it's nice to say that we shouldn't 'ruin the game for other people' by changing how miner pizza generation works, i.e. actually limiting it, but.. what, exactly, are we ruining for people by changing it? Is there something that being able to generate over a dozen crates of pizza per round accomplishes? Why do we need to leave things as they are and just rely on the staff to moderate everything?

There is no actual purpose I can see for this limitless pizza mechanic as is other than trolling the round and chucklefucking. I am fairly sure it was an oversight on the part of whoever coded the miner reward machines, not some sort of intended feature we're taking away from innocent players. Dialing it back is better than making the admins run over and berate people for abusing a game mechanic that doesn't need to be there in the first place. They should be there to facilitate actual rule violations, not babysit the crew.

[Ron]

You say having hardcaps ruins the "fun" or whatever, but I really don't see how you can have "fun" by making 100 pizza's. It's ludicrous. Other vendors have a limit, and for a reason. If the limits run out, get them from cargo. Having a limit on pizzas is not going to ruin your round or your "fun". A limit will be added. Other vendors have them and I do not see this being a reasonable exception. A cooldown isn't a good idea either because you are implying one of two things: 1. The company put a cooldown on a mining vendor (Why?) or 2. The vendor fabricates pizza's or other items (No other vendor does this, and it's stupid for this one to do it.) Unless there is a valid reason to not put a reasonable cap (Somewhere in the 5-50 range depending on the item) on the vendor, I will be adding one. Brushing it off to the staff team isn't a valid reason to not add restrictions other vendors already have. So consider this assigned to myself.

[Resilynn]

You say having hardcaps ruins the "fun" or whatever, but I really don't see how you can have "fun" by making 100 pizza's. It's ludicrous. Other vendors have a limit, and for a reason. If the limits run out, get them from cargo. Having a limit on pizzas is not going to ruin your round or your "fun". A limit will be added. Other vendors have them and I do not see this being a reasonable exception. A cooldown isn't a good idea either because you are implying one of two things: 1. The company put a cooldown on a mining vendor (Why?) or 2. The vendor fabricates pizza's or other items (No other vendor does this, and it's stupid for this one to do it.) Unless there is a valid reason to not put a reasonable cap (Somewhere in the 5-50 range depending on the item) on the vendor, I will be adding one. Brushing it off to the staff team isn't a valid reason to not add restrictions other vendors already have. So consider this assigned to myself.

 

Truly, the hero we need.