Coalf

Sorry for the extremely delayed resolution. Application accepted.

Sorry for the confusion, what I meant is. "Would you prefer the joint effort of a few individuals working on lore OR rather rely on user suggestions?"

Not much feedback, so I'll start. I for one know that Anduril or Pegasus or whatever has put a considerable amount of work into Dominia and the sprites. Say what you want about Dominia but the work he has put in has not only been surprisingly good but aesthetically and thematically CONSISTENT. Meaning that he just doesn't take any idea that strikes him on the nose as cool and shove it into his favorite factions like some others do. But it wouldn't be me without some questions: One, would you consider yourself more of a builder or a reformer? By that I mean, do you plan on possibly demolishing or trying to demolish whatever the people before you set up as "that faction" to make your own version or do you plan to rather work on already established concepts even thought it may be a detriment to you and your ideas? Do you think it's better to have more or less people in a lore department? Do you plan on making sprites for every human faction or are you just going to stay spriting for dominia? Say that zundy one day decides to just outright remove a faction, not due to lore or any other IC reason he is simply bored of it and wants it instantly deleted without any ceremonies or mentions so he can clear up some space. Would you support this? Do you think an IC removal would be better? Would you oppose this decision?

Senior good, all others bad yada yada. Let's go into the meaty stuff, the real basis of this, the questions: One, what do you think is the purpose OF a faction or a planet? (Or at least what do you consider the most narrative important about a faction/planet?) Would you consider the joint effort of a few individual working on lore better than just taking suggestions from random users? What is your biggest gripe (temporary or not) with the human faction (or if you have none) with the other factions, what would you like to see changed? Do you think we need more factions or would you consider the amount we have, "enough"?

Just dropping here to say railroading was in my opinion what harmed the round the most. Read railroaded the event by joining and playing "Commander Huey", she had given both the HAPT an okay, borgs the "murder infected" laws and had bombed the fuck out of the trader shuttle. Also I was the catbeast (visitor didn't play robotics that time) that had the borer in me, our plan was all around just "try to survive and get at least one worm on the shuttle" at which we eventually succeeded even though the HAPT had a gigantic murderboner. I'd say the direct cutting into the event by the event master was exactly what made it overall enjoyable to anyone who interacted with the antags any other way than "Stomp the slugs on sight", due to the fact that people were slaughtered not only FOR being infected but also for being infected in the past which in the end just encourages people to not follow antag gimmicks and instead shut them down for their own personal enjoyment and safety. It's important to note that if you look into this thread all evidence really presented is annecdotal with people both enjoying and not enjoying it and simply stating "Majority is on my side" would be incorrect since Read had done a vote and the people were in an overwhelming majority of "Yes it was enjoyable" All in all I'd say the round was a 4/10, big part of the crew did their best to actually co-operate with the antags, borers didn't just jump to "Hang urself and take control" and command wasn't overly fascistic with the captain even negotiating with one of the borers. What completely shit up the round was the CC inclusion by Read as Commander Huey and HAPT which essentially just served to put a complete stop on any RP with the HAPT members just batoning anyone who didn't follow orders fast enough and murdering anyone who even took a whiff of a borer and giving borgs a "murder infected laws". None of it made sense honestly, NT IS supposed to be a souless company but wouldn't it be in their interest to just capture the borers instead of murdering the shit out of them? More Weyland Utani and Umbrella Corp rather than whatever the fuck that was. I'd also question the AI as Read said they only acted on information provided by the AI? Which I believe at the time was Harmony, I think. Either Read as Commander Huey had over-reacted or the AI had exagarrated the information provided to the commander.

Big issue. The chef already barely fits into the kitchen over all the gear he has there, where would it even be?

Strangely enough I have to partially agree, although I'd do it a bit differently. I think what would help a lot more would be that instead of each contract being able to be used by anyone, we restrict the contracts to the wizard's apprentice. If that were the case, wizards would have to think if they really want to sacrifice half their point roster to have an extra helper. Further I think items such as swords, staffs(staves? stafs?), scrying orb and etc. should stay 100% contractable as providing magical items and boons is I think the centerpiece of any good storytelling wizard.

You forgot your BYOND key

Application accepted. Locking and archiving.

Agree with pretty much everything above, one concern. You say "deny a command application" but what about existing command? Does that mean that if someone gets banned with a whitelist on, should we strip it? If someone is applying and they get weekbanned, I strip it. But if someone gets weekbanned after his application is accepted, should I strip it instantly? What about job-bans, what if someone does a terrible work as sec offficer but I know he's an awesome medical doctor? Lot of things that can be pondered in this case. I read the rules the day I applied for moderator, it's really not that hard to know what to ahelp and what not to. This is a communtiy game not a WoW server, the simple gist is: "Does it bother you? Ahelp it" Sometimes we say "Yes this is a problem." Sometimes we say "IC issue" we don't operate on some set of super rules, we read the same rules everyone else does. I play robotics a lot and I can't really ban the HoS when he's going something I'm not aware of because I'm the robotics and nobody in security is ahelp, sure I could ghost round start and oversee every single department but I want to play the game too. Not really our responsibility to educate everyone, our responsibility is to respond to issues actively and re-actively, we try our best actively but a lot of times we miss things simply because there isn't that many of us and we're not gods(yet). The pings seem to be broken, still hate you. Wow, metaphore as subtle as a submarine in a teacup.

Because this is how it is! Don't pick an unimportant position if you want to get involved! It's not pretty but this is what the truth is! I addressed a lot of the points between the cherrypicks, but the simple fact is that civilian is un-important. And even /tg/ has roles that don't revolve around the antag, AT ALL. Actually ALL their roles are tailored to do their own shit until they HAPPEN to run into an antag. Just like us. Wait not, just like EVERY SINGLE EXISTING SERVER OFF AND ON THE HUB. Nobody is entitled to antag interaction outside of security, because it's their responsibility to deal with antags, security cannot ignore antags because is is their job to stop the antag. Events can be tailored to civilian roles, it's hard to make an event that people want to take part in, other departments are included in, civilian are included in and that isn't really fucking boring. Last time I tried such an event (And props to Xander he SERIOUSLY did his fucking best) was the cat refugee event, halfway through people started cryoing because they actually had to do their job and build shit, heal people and cook food. All of the heads were doing their absolute best to include their entire departments, multiple security officers purposefuly let their fucking guard slip to the point where one Tajara was allowed to keep a gun which was later used against a CE and security officer. People still complained about not being included and some people just purposefuly left because they had to do their job. Because this is a community, people aren't going to interact with you more. This isn't communism, we don't distribute the fun equally, if you want more fun you have to work to get more fun. Some jobs get more fun, some jobs get less fun that is how it is and will be, we can try to balance it and make jobs more relevant but I can't do that. Ask the developers to add more relevance to the civilian departments, as they say, Improve not Remove. EDIT: Apologied, Doc not Xander but I think Xander was there too along with Aboshehab and Eve

YOU picked said job for YOUR character. Why would you pick a job you don't want to do. You are right on this one. Because it's your JOB to create LUXURIES for the crew. You are not required for anything and yes you should not be expected to interact with the antag because civilian is USELESS. An AFTERTHOUGHT that lags behind the rest of the station. Security exists to specifically have the job of interacting with the antag and stopping him, that is their job. Sure security can fail or you happen to get a lucky hit in and stop him yourself, but it's not YOUR responsibility because you have NONE as a civilian. Then don't pick a job that is based on being extranious and unimportant. Easy as that. Again, you cannot have both the maximum amount of free-time for yourself and your character with zero responsibilities and also be required to be involved in everything on station. The more responsibilities you have, the more likely you're going to be involved. That's how this entire game is designed. Then if you come here to roleplay, roleplay, I never said not to. But don't complain about the fact that your kind of roleplay is the calm and constantly mellow one because it's the one the MOST REMOVED from the one big feature of this game. And what do you expect exactly? You pick civilian for calm RP and having free time for yourself, you get calm RP and free time for yourself, then people turn around and complain that they get too much calm RP and it's not what they wanted while doing absolutely nothing to change it, just sitting back watching the rounds unfold infront of them and pouting. Plus, we specifically have gamemodes which exist to include these un-important departments, cult and revolution. Yes, civilian is a dead-weight department, it always was. People enjoy playing that dead-weight department, I know quite a few people who play civilian JUST so they can stay out of the day-to-day bullshit and instead focus on private interaction. Civilian is the break-room of Aurora departments, it's the relax lounge where people get to enjoy freedoms and relaxations. (sometimes antags insert themselves into it though) Again, medical and engineering are the second and third department to be the most involved with antags respectively, because antagonist actions disturbe their jobs and the nature of their job forces them to deal with the antagonist to some degree. So yes, let's remove the dead-weight roles. Cut out the Bartender Chef, Hydro, just put dispensers there. Put away the journo, librarian, chaplain people can print their own books. Get rid of cargo and the QM, hell nothing simpler than just ordering things and putting them on a shuttle. None of them are important. EDIT: Last part is sarcasm I don't actually want to remove any of those roles. But people reading this have to admit that all those jobs are just a cherry on-top, not the meat of the cake. Further while I use a lot of "You's" I never mean Ornias in particular, I'm adressing the unspoken "civilian"

While your fairy tales are truly worthy of Brothers Grimm, they do not make for convincing arguments. Actually what I said, instead of the lies is: You come here to do a job. Your job is not an important job, you are not important. This saves you from the headache of being chased around for not setting up the engine, not cloning people fast enough or not batoning the antag fast enough. However you pay for it by, not being important. Yes even cargo is non-important, everything they do is extra as is mining, scientists can still bring their research up to a near maximum even without you. You don't get to have zero responsibilities during a normal round and also have all the involvement when something actually exciting happens, you can't have your cake and eat it. You have a job, you do your job, sometimes you get pulled into shenanigans due to the nature of the situation, you not here to get into shenanigans. This is called HRP, HRP drives on restrictions created by the rules, the rules say you should do your job and not search for shenanigans. You CAN interact with an antag but you are NOT ENTITLED to an antag. Antagonists are also players, they can chose who to interact with, how and how long. If your character has not interacted with an antag in forever you should probably re-think how you play the game and why other players don't like you enough to ever interact with you. Note: I am not refuting any of the above points because I cannot, you are the community as am I and if you think there is an issue, then there is an issue. However I also have my own opinions and my own thoughts on this that don't match yours, as do the 800+ unique pings that have visited this thread however not posted in it. I think I do my best to allow civilians to enter my events and I have gotten the absolute minimum of complaints about not including people in my events. However everyone in here and everyone reading this IS the community and besides discussion there is not much we can do, outside of perhaps getting ol' Musky to build us a mind control device and make everyone a hivemind. Edit : edited out "massive liar " due to being ad hominem, replaced it with "instead of the lies "

:clap::clap::clap:

Ah yes I do remember you and Sulyard for that matter and their death was tragic from the logs of that round i read about 50 times. Anyways I'd like to ask, regarding the death, was it something you planned for a while or did you just decide to go with it as it happened? Some other reason? Not a lot of people would just kill off their probably most active character and thus it peaks my curiosity.

I realized I never posted the notes, my mistake. These are all the notes, to explain further: The gaps bewtween the phrases are gaps in time and deleted conversations of everyone who was not in the scene. I tried my best to read into where who was but if I missed something or accidentally taken something/someone out of context, I do apologise. All Ckey's have been redacted except yours since we've publicly discussed who your character is. Do keep in mind, logs don't log a lot of actions like opening lockets, pulling people without using an intent, your position etc. etc. I tried my best to clean this up. EDIT: Edite out "Ckeys" and replaced with "logs", missplaced a word. EDIT 2: For the note I will avoid answering your question as I have already answered it before in PM's when you asked me and the general thought is that I'm trying to get you.

THE ANTICIPATION AND THE DRAMATIC REVEAL ARE A PART OF THE EXPERIENCE SOME OF THESE AREN'T EVEN DRAMATIC I MEAN WE ALL BEEN KNEW YOU HAD 2 PORNO PIECES MADE OF YOUR CHARACTERS I didn't say I had TWO porno pieces made! I said I paid for two. :smirk:

THE ANTICIPATION AND THE DRAMATIC REVEAL ARE A PART OF THE EXPERIENCE

Shocking revelations. I hate you but I like you enough for it to turn into indefference. Also you forgot "I didn't write my novel for like two years now" into it.

Good old revification of dead threads, fun.

Christ Almigthy, I just can't watch this. Again, this isn't an A or B option, there is a very cut clear path, there are deviations on this path correct but it's a very straightforward path with minimum responsibilities. In the Vaurca event you did all your responsibilities as a HoP, you raised to blue, you delegated your department to get supplies, you ordered a translator for the vaurca. In scope those were your responsibilities. But all of this was done AFTER everything we raised as an issue, AFTER we asked you why Jawdat was there, AFTER we asked why Jawdat decided to fly back, AFTER the fact that as we already said that 5 out of 6 heads on an away mission leaving the station completely abandonned for the RD(whose responsibility it is NOT to manage HUMAN RESOURCES) to tend to. There were correct thing to do, you did a lot of things correctly but there was a lot of things you did badly because you wanted to be included in an event. This isn't an assumption again, you decided to make an entire manifesto about how unfair it is that you aren't allowed to be included in events even if you try your hardest to shove yourself into them. Yes there is an issue with inclusion, but that issue EXISTS because CIVILIANS forfeit their RESPONSIBILITIES, thus they are LESS INVOLVED. It is a trade-off, civilians are the entertainment industry, a luxury and they need to learn to accept that security, medical and engineering are going to be more involved because they have more responsibilities making them more important. You hark and hark about inclusion this and inclusion that and completely ignore the fact 3 departments were present excluding yourself and Trekkers, Engineering, Security and Medical out of the existing 6. Security - Ensure the crew is safe, if the crew is ordered to go on a rescue mission they would logically be there. Engineering - Manual skills, excellent for deconstructing walls and clearing debree, perfect for a rescue operation. Medical - No comments Then we have the rest that were not, "included" Supply - Ensure the station crew is well supplied, medkits, roller beds, bodybags, food, water. They are not supposed to dig through rubble and search for corpses, they're supposed to deliver supplies. Research - Research, completely uninvolved in this event judging from logs. Civilian - Luxuries, food, water. Again not the people to take to go through rubble and search for corpses and survivors. Establishing a camp on the other side where refugees can stay = Perfect, awesome, exactly what should be done and a great way to involve civilians in this event aswell as supply. Establishing a camp on station where refugees can stay = Great, awesome, same as above. Bringing supplies to the rescuers = Great, nice, supply is included and you have a reason to go a bit further into the rubble while at the same time doing a great job. Going through rubble with untrained personnel searching for dead and wounded so you can give them lunch = No. Was the HoS, CE, Captain, CMO and HoP needed there? Absolutely not, this was an extreme unnecessary risk. Captain should not be going away from the station in the first place, neither should be the HoP, CMO or HoS, they should have delegated the response teams rather than take full control and run into the potentially dangerous rubble to have event fun. Actively taking any plot-relevance of players away and substittuing it with their own. Everyone was punished for fucking up, not just you. But this, this is the really fun part. Nobody punished or warned you after the Vaurca event, the only action that was taken were in-character IR's which logically Jawdat can't see the IR's made against him, but even if he did all of the IR's were made due to the ""mutiny"", not front-lining so even OOCly you couldn't mistake it as such. So let's imagine that the Vaurca round was you going right, as you say catch 22 or whatever, this is you going Right. Then after the interview, during which you did not know that possible action could be taken for front-lining, you decide to go in the other way, as you said yourself, to the left and be completely Passive instead of active. Do you get what we're saying you decided to switch personalities when it suits you? We didn't punish you for going one way and then punished you for going the other, you decided to switch personalities on your own when it suited you. This isn't a gotcha moment, this is me explaining our logic and stepping stones, hell you yourself have aknowleddged it in your own argument man. EDIT: I typed this up on my lunch-break, I'll provide logs later today to for my previous post.

Welp I had the logs, then I closed the tab I was in and my entire post got deleted so I won't be answering that one today, but I'll probably post them tomorrow. (note, logs don't display radio chatter only spoken words) To be short. 1) Why was Jawdat needed there? You claimed he's unfamiliar with the situation in the first place but you never clear up why the fuck would he go to a suspected burning wreck that could be fitted with corpses and wounded with the first wave instead of deciding y'know, maybe I should see what the scouting team says before I decide to go outside of my expertise and hand out propaganda to children whose mothers have died. Claiming I make assumptions sure is fun, but the fact that you had prepared the lunches and decided you'll go there before even asking if anyone will come with or if you can go there in the first place. Jawdat was not needed there, he should be managing the station in the captains absence (the captain should have not gone in the first place and neither should have the CMO) It's called a command structure for a reason, if one part collapses there are other pillars to hold them down. What if the shuttle crashed and every single one of you died on that ship? Who would man the stations? The RD? The one person whose job is NOT to manage every department if other heads are absent? Yes people do hand out relief supplies, but they hand them out in shelters and after it's been established that it's safe. I'm sick of having to link the Heads of Personnel page you yourself wrote because you fail again and again to follow the criteria you set yourself. You wrote that article objectively and without your tailfeathers being on fire, that is why I trust it more. 2) I didn't resolve your complaint, Matt did, I don't have any "Mind Control" powers over Matt or Alberyk so I sadly cannot tell them which whitelist to remove and when, neither was I the only person conducting investigations and thus the "You just wanted to strip my whitelist and now you're searching for reasons why!" kinda dies there. Further if you think you did absolutely nothing wrong there I am glad I agreed with the decision to take your whitelist. And if you would have done the same thing as you did previously in case of a monster attack now, we would be meeting here once more. 3) "Bad gas" didn't serve to show how much of a shitty head you are. It was to show that almost every head in the round acted like an absolute child and as you can see by the third staff complaint, it was to show that we, the whitelist team aren't the only ones who think you absolutely failed to do your job properly as the CCIA would have punished you anyways. 4) Yes I admit I misread that log, it was Richter saying that ICly. And I apologise for it. In the End: There is a lot to unpack here and as I said myself I don't speak for the entire whitelist team. For now I'll keep my mouth shut so it doesn't turn into an insane back&forth as it has before as we clearly do not see eye to eye. Again, I'm not the one handling the complaint, I think I explained myself and my reasons for why I agreed on the strip. Aboshehab has to resolve it himself and the others need to defend their own points.

I'm not going to do the quote by quote thing, it's draining. The reason it was titled as abuse of coms is because you're making it a clear advertisement for your own products and a charity second as an excuse, it was ruled as abuse by CCIA and we happened to agree with them. One, you had no reason to be there, you admit it was an unfamiliar situation and your entire previous defence was that Jawdat likes upholding morale and is a paper pusher, he clearly had no idea what he was doing because every time he saw a survivor he screamed at the top of his lungs "What the fuck is that", about 2-3 times. This is where the "harassing refugees" comes from and shows that not bringing you would have been the better option since Jawdat had no idea what he was doing. Also most likely because you took every opportunity to title anyone who disagreed with you as having "bad gas". Nobody was co-ordinated until AFTER the monster showed up. From the logs I saw you simply ordered Trekkers to come with you, if she said no you would have gone anyways. The charity is important enough for you to let the station deal with a Malf AI but not important enough to let station deal with the refugees, this is the character turn we're talking about. None of this really explains why he had to be there when 5/6 heads were leaving already, leaving the RD to manage the station alone. This is what put entire command on blast, putting their own fun and importance in an event before other players. There was absolutely no need to have so many heads there. The strange thing is you agree with me in PM's that it's apperant by the amount of warnings something was wrong with Jawdat and to "trade" him for your command whitelist, but now you turn around and say nothing is wrong. But I get it, opinions change. Actually everything I said was regarding before the monster even showed up, we didn't address the entire mutiny thing because all of the heads were being stupid and childish. The thing is right, that after the monster shows up and you have seen it your recruit a vaurca to go translate, fly the shuttle there, tell people to take pictures, raise to blue, co-ordinate cargo with weapons, hide in the bunker, come out of the bunker and finally try to arrest Price. This is wherein the buried dog lies, why were you such a capable Heads of Personnel in this round but not in the latter malf AI round? This is where the disparity and difference in characters arises, you have descibed Jawdat as a paper-pusher trying to raise morale and here you're doing your actual job as an HoP fulfilling all the criteria and going plus ultra. Yes, don't play civilian if you want to be involved in majority of violent events. This is why away events always get such a bad rep, because civilians have nothing to do because they're civilians. Entertainment industry, the most useless bunch with no applied skill who exist only because our system allows for luxuries to become an available thing even for lower and middle-classes. Alright here is the thing, almost everyone in the round got punished but your punishment wasn't simply for this one round. It was the culmination of your notes and repeated behaviour (Which you have aknowledged is wrong in our private PM's as the screenshot indicated) and the extreme difference on how your character acts when involved in an event and when forced to deal with a usual boring standard malf AI round. However I don't speak for the whitelist team and I hope [mention]Alberyk[/mention] along with [mention]Datamatt[/mention]

Closing and archiving.

So we've discussed this, since that is all we can do as there is nothing to investigate and we have decided to take no action against the character of [mention]Azande[/mention] . CCIA have declared that the reprimand would have no effect on further promotion and while I would agree with your sentiments were the reprimand recent, with the fact that next month it'll be exactly an entire year since the record was set I have to disagree. If the CCIA thought the charge was AS serious as you make it out to be [mention]Arrow768[/mention] , they would have served out an appropriate injuction against the character. Thus we have no reason to adopt a different mindset. It appears the CCIA hoped to give the character a second chance, he has had a spotless record the entire year and thus I assume meets the requirements. This complaint will remain open for the next 24 hours for discussion.