Nerf* the melee weapon damage amplification from force gloves.

[Scheveningen]

Force gloves are presently quite strong and the way they are comboed with the strongest melee weapons in the game leads them to have an even larger kill threat and capability to remove another character from the round.

I wouldn't mind if force gloves comboed well with martial arts to totally dunk nerds with, but an energy sword that benefits between 50% and 100% bonus damage just because you're wearing force gloves is not exactly the epitome of nuance.

It's also not very interesting to have combat decided in 2 hits to your face because an energy sword got amplified to do so much damage.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Guest

[Scheveningen]

I have been informed that energy swords with force gloves instantly bisect when targeting the lower body.

this mechanic is gonna get destroyed.

[Butterrobber202]

While it does make realistic sense, it probably needs to be nerfed down to a 20-30% buff.

[Trazz666]

-1. It's fine as-is, no need to change it.

[Ron]

-1. It's fine as-is, no need to change it.

 

when the damage is comparable to a lightsaber... it's not fine as is. energy sword has 30 force while active and costs 8 TC. force gloves enhance this by 2.5 to 75 force for 8 more TC. That's more than the thunderdome axe and you have the bonus of being able to insta grab someone with your other hand. considering how many mobility items there are and how easy it is to pop out of a locker and slash or run up to someone and slash them down in 1 hit... yeah, it's not fair.

[Zundy]

I thought you couldn't instagrab any more with force gloves?

[sonicgotnuked]

I thought you couldn't instagrab any more with force gloves?

You can't insta-grab with the RnD forcegloves but the enhanced ones still have it.

I mean, if you really wish, I think you should have the option of buying this combo for the price of 16 telecrystles. What is stopping me from buying a revolver, that is cheaper, and blowing off someones head at point blank?

Perhaps the RnD force gloves should gain a tweak, but leave the enhanced ones alone.

[TheSleepyCatmom]

What's stopping you is being banned. It's very very taboo to just target limbs and instantly gib or chop them off as far as I'm aware. It's why slugs were removed from the armory.

I also agree that instead of nerfing something that's *supposed* to be strong, you should tweak the thing that's inanely weak for bending bluespace even on a basic scale.

[Brutishcrab51]

Slugs were removed to keep Security from instantly going to shotgun+slug combinations (as a force not meant to get 'em valids, and instead protect the crew) and because they were insanely OP and available to anyone that could access the Armory. And because there were a lot of them. Antagonists going the best possible route to remove the opposing force in a dog-eat-dog scenario is not the same.

Personally, I do feel the gloves themselves are -weaker- than they should be. You should feel like the One Punch Man when getting into a fist fight with enhanced force gloves on.

[TheSleepyCatmom]

Point still stands, to be quite honest. Slugs were removed, and bans were handed out because of it's use so liberally. :shrug:

[Trazz666]

-1. It's fine as-is, no need to change it.

...how easy it is to pop out of a locker and slash or run up to someone and slash them down in 1 hit... yeah, it's not fair.

 

You're right, that's not fair. That's gank and against the rules. The solution is to ahelp it, not punish antags for actually preparing.

The only time it'd be acceptable to do that is if the situation was already escalated and you were an active participant in the fight. At which case it's completely on you for getting within melee range of a guy with a sword, tbh.

[Scheveningen]

-1. It's fine as-is, no need to change it.

...how easy it is to pop out of a locker and slash or run up to someone and slash them down in 1 hit... yeah, it's not fair.

 

You're right, that's not fair. That's gank and against the rules. The solution is to ahelp it, not punish antags for actually preparing.

The only time it'd be acceptable to do that is if the situation was already escalated and you were an active participant in the fight. At which case it's completely on you for getting within melee range of a guy with a sword, tbh.

 

 

I'm not sure how to more adequately explain that oneshot mechanics are not okay to someone who so obviously thinks mechanics like these are healthy for the game state.

The arguments presented are ones displayed against the mechanic being toxic and unfair, because even in a standard combat scenario, the advantage the wielder of antagonist force gloves gain is overwhelmingly more obvious than what their opposition might be. It is not subtle or interesting in terms of what advantages force gloves give an individual. It's an instant power buy what with how it grants massive reward to melee weapons. No other traitor item in the game does this. The revolver is a finite weapon and runs out of bullets eventually. An energy sword is always useful on its own but benefits heavily by having its damage multiplied by 2.5.

You can literally one-hit kill someone with an energy sword aimed at their lower torso. This is not a detail that is nuanced. This has nothing to do with whether this is gank or not. Mechanics that permit you to instantly kill someone without substantial need for effort (buying an esword and force gloves is not effort) are horrible for any game. The conflict becomes decided with whoever clicks first through a guarantee. The game ends for whoever gets clicked first. This should not be so.

Deferring to the rules and admins as if they have anything to do with how overpowered force gloves+melee weapons are is a ridiculous resolution to the issue. Admins have nothing to do with game balance alone.

[Kaed]

I'm not opposed to a Nerf on the damage, but like other people are saying just don't get in melee range if you don't want to get owned by an energy sword. That's the counter play. Even without the buff of damage the sword is pretty strong.

[Scheveningen]

The energy sword will remain just as strong at its base level. Force gloves just make melee weapons scale beyond what anyone else can square up with in the game, leading to very unfair encounters in close range.

[Snakebittenn]

If I could vote for dismissal, I would. There are many ways to combat someone with force gloves. Tazers. Lasers. Bullets. Even surrendering and giving the person what they want from you (Ganking does not count, as you should be ahelping.) A better solution is to raise the cost of force gloves to reflect their power.

[Scheveningen]

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/5265

When your only counterplay to something is "adminhelp it if they ganked you using it, not much else you can do", it's kind of obvious something is wrong with the mechanic.

[Snakebittenn]

I just said there's ways.

[Arrow768]

Moved it to projects, since there´s a PR for it.

I believe that the damage amplification of the force gloves should be reduced or removed.

We have recently removed / changed weapons in a way to remove their ability to instantly end a players round.

It is only logical to continue this here.

(If you do something like that, it has to be done across the board and not only selectively where it suits the antags)

[sonicgotnuked]

What's stopping you is being banned. It's very very taboo to just target limbs and instantly gib or chop them off as far as I'm aware. It's why slugs were removed from the armory.

 

I wasn't around during this time with the removal of slugs, but I'll reference what I saw before they got removed.

Security would find the quickest, and easiest way to kill an antag by shooting them straight in the face once they are authorized lethals. Of course, like everything, escalation is required from both sides. I can see why randomly chopping off a limb with no reason could fall under powergaming, gank, and generally against the rules. Now if you did have escalation, I never saw a rule against you being able to chop off limbs while in a fight. If we did, then why can we target different limbs? Why don't we just code melee to either attack the head or chest. If you are one traitor VS five armed security officers, I am pretty sure you can use escalated measures to take them down before they take you down.

I support the reduction with the force gloves inside RnD or the material increase, but I do not support its reduction within traitor brought forcegloves. Why? If someone wishes to buy that weapon combination, you will be spending 16 telecrystles for it. I am sure that is fairly balanced.

There are still plenty of counter plays and the simplest one of them all is not to restrict yourself to close quarters, use the hall, and their force-glove esword combination is now useless while you spray them down with bullets. Be smart, play smart, and don't blindly follow antags into the maintenance shaft unless you have a plan.

[sonicgotnuked]

After talking with Schev and coming up with new ideas via the discord. I will go ahead and support this nerf within the force gloves.

[Snoopy11]

I support the nerf, I've always wondered why a certain situations fucked my day up worse than the previous; it's certainly disparaging when you're suddenly vertical from a one hit blow.

I also myself always go for force gloves as an antag, but I've only ever done so for the ability to fast-grab, since this is a way of restraint, and also the ability for an impromptu bullet shield if necessary.

[PoZe]

@Scheveningen The PR was closed, is this project discontinued?

[Scheveningen]

That's correct. It seemed as if nerfing was not the way to go about things, but merely bringing other features (i.e. guns) up to par in power with melee weapons.

[PoZe]

Okay, moving to discontinued projects