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kyres1

IPC Mechanic Rework

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Posted (edited)

IPC Mechanic Rework

AKA “duhhh IPC man bad” the rework

 

This is pretty simple. One of the prime complaints about IPCs is how unga bunga robust they are. This is fine considering they’re literally robots, but there must be some sort of counterplay beyond stupid instant kills (EMPs) or rarely(?) accessible laser weaponry.

Also they’re glitchy, nonsensical and don’t play into the gameplay flow at all.

They will be split into four variants based on chassis : Shell, Light, Baseline, and Heavy-Duty.

This is also partly an announcement that bioshells are now on the horizon, as explained on Cake’s post here a while back -

https://forums.aurorastation.org/topic/9719-biosynthetic-shells/

These will tie into the IPC rework mechanics heavily and the framework for both will hopefully make coding them easier for the people in charge of it.

Starting with changes to apply to every single IPC frame…

In general

IPCs have a base of 200 coolant. They bleed coolant from each wound depending on severity, and vent coolant passively at varying rates depending on chassis. Once out of coolant and under stress (wearing armor, running, or in hazardous atmosphere) they begin to overheat and promptly burn to death if they don’t fix it.

IPCs will now have damage thresholds across the board where any damage less than the threshold is ignored entirely. These will be extremely low and just prevent vendors from perpetually giving you a red border around your screen by hitting you with a bag of chips.

IPCs will retain their vulnerability to lasers across the board. This is mostly because their new weak points are entirely immune to lasers, as lasers do not deal organ damage or break bones. Energy weapons should remain viable.

IPCs will have much more pronounced weak points in the limbs, lower body and head for various purposes. Namely easy disabling.

HKs will not be affected by shrapnel. This originally said all IPCs, whoops.

IPCs will be able to bleed coolant, removing their ability to wear heavy things such as armor or to survive in higher stress environments when they run out. They will very slowly vent coolant over time, with certain frames venting much faster.

Positronics will now be able to die without being deleted or cremated.

Nanopaste is massively nerfed, antags get a buffed version though.

Robotics gets more stuff to do.

IPCs will universally gain abilities relating to their new statistics and organs.

IPCs will be greyscaled across the board so their sprites are all compatible and colorable.

IPCs will get two abilities permitting them to control their coolant, such as a coolant vent and an emergency backup depending on frames.

On robotics/R&D and nanopaste

Nanopaste will no longer be available to R&D in its current state. In its place, there will be one or two usage nanopaste tubes (rather than the original ten usage) that consumes the same storage space as the original (which is “Normal sized”). Furthermore, antagonists IPCs will gain access to combat nanopaste, which operates fundamentally the same with 10 uses and is a small sized item. It should also fit in combat belts, so that it is spawnable with Hunter-Killer combat androids. The combat nanopaste must have a high TC cost (roughly anything 8 or above) to counteract spam.

Robotics will now print two separate things : Prosthetics, and operating servos. The servos will serve as the functioning component while prosthesis functions as the frame. This will apply to both prosthesis on organics and IPC limbs alike.

Robotics and chemistry will now be able to fabricate synthetic coolant with a mixture of X, Y and Z. (undecided)

Robotics will be able to print all non vital IPC organs.

On EMPs

IPCs will now be temporarily blinded by EMPs across the board (Certain frames will be stunned.) HKs will be blinded as well.

Prosthetics from the individual IPC frames still carry over their respective frame's properties, such as resists. They are EMP resistant as well.

IPCs will take no major damage from EMPs except to the optics, which will take 2 damage from weak EMPs and 5 from strong EMPs. Their health cap is 30, for  reference, and they go blind at like 15 if it operates like normal eyes.

On Atmospheric Cooling

All IPCs will operate off of air cooling to a sufficient degree to wear clothing and operate nominally in temperatures comfortable for Humans. Air cooling for all chassis is insufficient to survive vacuum, making liquid coolant a requirement for EVA without a suit cooler.
On limbs/bodyparts

IPCs will be able to choose their upper/lower body from a modular list, with three frames available and all branded bodyparts still available from these frames. These frames are as follows, with their respective parts :

Light - Bishop, Zeng-Hu.

Baseline - Baseline, Xion, Unbranded.

Heavy duty - G1 industrial, G2 industrial.

Military-grade - Hunter-Killer.

IPCs can choose from any head or limbs they desire on any frame they desire. 

Depending on frame, speed and resistances will change. These are detailed at the bottom of the document. Only changes to the upper body alter coolant. The upper body and lower body can not be from separate frames. For example, a Zeng-Hu upper body will always have a Zeng-Hu lower body. This is to avoid annoying organ pedantics.

On varying head sprites

IPCs will now be able to customize their head sprite.

On upgrades

IPCs will have upgrades available from robotics working alongside R&D. These are more quality of life than anything, hopefully, and are mostly still in the works. These upgrades will need to be applied by trained roboticists and will not field any outright buffs.

On organs

IPCs will receive new organs. These are as follows -

coolantvalve.gif.f25eeec3ccd55ea83c0d4fca82df71a2.gif

Liquid Coolant Pump - A pump manifold which acts like the heart of the IPC. Pumps liquid coolant throughout the entire chassis to permit survival of higher stress environments. Located in the upper body.

In mechanics - Greatly increases cooling threshold of IPCs when supplied with liquid coolant. After a heat threshold is surpassed, the Liquid Coolant Pump will activate and begin depleting the IPC’s internal supply of coolant. Upon breaking, instant death follows. All IPCs have different coolant capacities, detailed further below.

In summary - A protected organ, being in the upper body. Permits some time EVA, with massive variation between chassis. If broken, the IPC dies because lol coolant leak.

lube.gif.fc426dc061f5d552b79e3928b41af945.gif

Lubricant Pump - A pump manifold which sustains a light flow of lubricant to the complex inner workings of IPCs, permitting operations for hours at a time so long as it is not damaged. Located in the lower body.

In mechanics - When damaged in excess of ten points of brute damage, causes random limb organs to slowly take damage at one brute per tile moved randomly. When damaged in excess of twenty points of brute damage, causes random limb organs to take damage at five brute per tile moved randomly.

In summary - A weak point, basically. Once it’s damaged it will make bringing down IPCs much easier as they will begin to take damage to their real weak spots - limbs. This acts like shrapnel, but affects limbs randomly.

servo.gif.ab62bb72edd5228aa6ca22f356778474.gif

Limb servos - The biggest weak point of IPCs. An organ found in the arms and legs (not feet/hands) that controls the limb itself. Found in prosthetics for organs as well. Must be installed in prosthetics separate from their original frame.

In mechanics - When destroyed, removes all functionality in that limb until it is replaced or mended with nanopaste. When one leg is destroyed, the IPC remains upright but slowed to ridiculously slow speeds. When the other is destroyed, the IPC physically can not stand without hardsuit assistance.  Different servos permit different statistics, detailed further below. Leg servos take damage when stamina is exhausted. When destroyed, servos should play specific sound file (quite a loud one) to let players know something broke, like bone snapping but metallic.

All limb servos have 30HP.

Limb servos begin to take damage after limb damage has exceeded 30.

In summary - The new way to destroy IPCs! Requires planning and forethought beyond “Do you have Ion? If not, die” and provides all sorts of interesting new scenarios. Furthermore, most any armor piercing round should be enough to disable a limb in two or three shots permanently and bring the IPC to a halt.

diagnostic.gif.8e78f13b334838f403e48c4dcbf651b5.gif

Self-diagnostic system - The biggest buff of the rework, probably. Grants an ability that allows IPCs to diagnose the health and status of all of their internal systems, similar to borg self diagnostics. Located in the head. Simply breaks after taking 10 damage and needs replacement.

In mechanics - It’s just a borg self-diagnostic tool, but for IPCs.

In summary - A shameless buff that players have wanted for quite a while. A variant not reliant on an organ exists already.

powercontrol.gif.560790acc50a023595bfd83c4263a9ee.gif

Power gauge and central control - An annoyance which controls power output across the entire body. When damaged, confuses the IPC’s chassis and forces them to stumble like a drunk. Found in the head.

In mechanics - When damaged in excess of ten points, begins confusion. The IPC will need to use an ability to recalibrate its sensors to retain normal locomotion, and will lose normal movement at a random point within the next twenty seconds. While calibrating, the IPC must stand still. Calibration takes 5 seconds.

In summary - Another way to slow down or incapacitate IPCs, this time mostly temporary.

Moving on to specific frames...

On Baseline Frames - Baseline/Xion

Brute resist (upper body) - 0.7

Brute resist (all others) - 0.9

Burn resist (all) - 1.3

Coolant vent rate - 0.30/sec(roughly 10 minutes of sustained stress)

Slowdown: Unaffected.

Sprint multiplier : Unaffected.

Heat : Unaffected.

Stunned+blinded by EMPs.

In summary - Basically no difference from baselines. A large buff to EVA lifetime, but not much else beyond upper body brute mod. Whether the other nerfs are enough to level this out will need to be seen in practice, honestly.

On Light Frames - Bishop/Zeng-Hu

Brute resist (upper body) - 1.1

Brute resist (all others) - 1.5

Burn resist (all) - 1.6

Coolant vent rate - 2.40/sec(roughly 60 seconds of sustained stress)

Slowdown: -1.2

Sprint multiplier : Unaffected.

Heat : Massively increased.

Stunned+blinded by EMPs.

Can not wear normal voidsuits. Must wear hardsuits with mounted coolers to survive EVA.

In summary - Discount M’sai. Gets very little EVA lifetime if at all. Takes huge brute and burn, and has extremely fragile legs. One or two firm toolbox whacks renders them immobile, essentially.

On Heavy-duty Frames - G1/G2

Brute resist (upper body) - 0.4

Brute resist (all others) - 0.6

Burn resist (all) - 0.8

Coolant vent rate - No coolant vented passively.

Slowdown: Unaffected.

Sprint multiplier : Removed. They can not sprint.

Heat : Massively decreased.

Blinded by EMPs.

Can slot coolers onto back.

In summary - Stupid resists across the board with the same slower-than-Diona speed. High threshold for heat. It’s basically an all-around buff, making this change very, very questionable with the polarized opinions on industrials. To me (kyres), industrials are in a sad state right now, with much of anything outside of boring resistances to show for exactly how big, sturdy and slow they are.

Outside of mechanics

Heavy-duty frames will be restricted from roles in security as well as the Head of Security role.

Light frames and baseline frames will be able to utilize all roles available to baseline frames before.

The above will be retracted after some brief feedback.

Bioshells are on the horizon, and with them a shell rework. More on that soon.

The PR

The WIP PR for these changes are below. It is currently being worked on by @DRagO, bless their soul.

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/6296

The concerns

The concerns with this are generally focused around how we’re attempting to balance what is effectively the hardest thing to balance in the game. When confronted with a robot in combat, there must be some counterplay. While I’m certain this suggestion offers plentiful counterplay in practice, there’s always going to be the concern that we’re leaning into them becoming overpowered or (doubtfully) underpowered. Some of the frames themselves, specifically industrial frames, are receiving what is essentially outright buffs, while others are just becoming more true to their intent (like the mobility frames being faster, or the baseline frames being a jack of all trades.)

If these concerns are echoed by the community, the first solution is to always conform to the feedback first, but know that much of what is seen here will need to be tested and seen in-game before we can pin down the issues with it.

The benefits

The benefits, mechanically, are hopefully a more true-to-lore depiction of IPCs ingame and a less infuriating experience for everyone involved. No longer do you need the magic blue gun to instantly kill an IPC, nor do you have to work around the magic blue gun as a synthetic character. At the same time, the required equipment for taking on a robot has essentially become anything heavy as long as you hit the limbs, or anything sharp as long as you make them bleed.

Encounters are no longer governed by an instant-kill device that decimates the opposition of whoever has it.

With the new organs, more utility such as chassis upgrades and upgraded organs can be explored. More stuff for research to do, more stuff for IPCs to look forward to.

On top of all this, we’re cutting away three (and maybe four, depending) unnecessary subspecies, freeing up space for others to be explored.

In closing, I hope this is all satisfactory, genuinely, and I'm looking forward to how you guys see it.

 

Edited by kyres1

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While I appreciate you trying to remove the instakill meta, this is just one more rework that moves the machine race closer and closer to just being a human reskin like every other race.

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2 minutes ago, K0NFL1QT said:

While I appreciate you trying to remove the instakill meta, this is just one more rework that moves the machine race closer and closer to just being a human reskin like every other race.

Some feedback on why you feel this way would be nice

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2 minutes ago, K0NFL1QT said:

While I appreciate you trying to remove the instakill meta, this is just one more rework that moves the machine race closer and closer to just being a human reskin like every other race.

Did... you read the same post everyone else did?

Can you explain?

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Yes yes yes yes!

 

Kinda salty about not being able to play a sec G2, but screw it, it's time for change. Hell, it incentivizes me to play them in a job that isn't about being a walking meatsheild. The lack of sprint also gives me something to think about; my entire gameplay loop for a sec G2 in the first place was about how to sprint "most efficiently."

Hopefully they get door-prying too. Follow me comrades, I will help you to the surface.

I'm stoked for IPCs to be something other than metal humans for once, with mechanics that reflect them as they are intended to exist, not just the same thing with slightly different modifiers.

I would, however, like to inquire about the "ability to customize your head sprite." It goes without saying that this has caught my attention. How does this work?

 

Will there be any additional form of specialization as far as this amazing reworke is concerned?

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13 minutes ago, K0NFL1QT said:

While I appreciate you trying to remove the instakill meta, this is just one more rework that moves the machine race closer and closer to just being a human reskin like every other race.

Sorry what? Explain.

 

If anything ipcs were just 'humans without organs'. This makes them into actual machines. Machines have parts. Comlicated machines have complicated parts. Ipcs are complicated machines.

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Because giving the machine race organs and bleeding mechanics, and joints that break like bones, is a step backwards. I can't tell exactly what giving them explicit joints does yet; from my understanding, you can damage them and that might disable limbs without having to directly damage that limb into failure? So the weaker frames get even weaker, and the higher durability of the tougher frames is rendered moot if you can just easily break the joints.

Also, removing heavies from sec work? The thing they are most suited for? This feels like 'I accidentally made the most problematic IPC more powerful... so I'll just kick them out of sec'. Like, what. G2s aren't even good at mining due to their slow speed, and you don't take damage if you don't fall so their durability counts for nothing. Their one reasonable reason to exist was as secbots, where their durability is put to good use in the one field where you're expected to get attacked. So now they're 'more overpowered', but still useless as miners and now banned from sec.

That's not to say I don't appreciate any of the work, time and effort kyres has put into any of this; I must restate that I do. EMPs being instakill is bad, just like any form of instakill for any race is bad. If EMPs stunned and put IPCs into temporary unconciousness, instead of massive damage, you subvert the instakill meme without having to fill IPCs full of bone and organ facsimiles.

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With all that said, I'll go ahead and remove the security restrictions on heavy frames. After all, we'd need them to see how the balancing pans out to begin with.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, K0NFL1QT said:

Because giving the machine race organs and bleeding mechanics, and joints that break like bones, is a step backwards. I can't tell exactly what giving them explicit joints does yet; from my understanding, you can damage them and that might disable limbs without having to directly damage that limb into failure? So the weaker frames get even weaker, and the higher durability of the tougher frames is rendered moot if you can just easily break the joints.

Also, removing heavies from sec work? The thing they are most suited for? This feels like 'I accidentally made the most problematic IPC more powerful... so I'll just kick them out of sec'. Like, what. G2s aren't even good at mining due to their slow speed, and you don't take damage if you don't fall so their durability counts for nothing. Their one reasonable reason to exist was as secbots, where their durability is put to good use in the one field where you're expected to get attacked. So now they're 'more overpowered', but still useless as miners and now banned from sec.

That's not to say I don't appreciate any of the work, time and effort kyres has put into any of this; I must restate that I do. EMPs being instakill is bad, just like any form of instakill for any race is bad. If EMPs stunned and put IPCs into temporary unconciousness, instead of massive damage, you subvert the instakill meme without having to fill IPCs full of bone and organ facsimiles.

You....act like the only place people play g2s is sec. Wow. Anything that is SLOW is banned from sec. It's that simple. G2s were already in a contentious spot when it came to even QUALIFYING for sec and already couldn't be HoS because they were just that: too slow.

 

There are things that exist outside of sec and mining.

 

Edit: Also, most problematic? The most problematic, by far, were baselines. You can literally just walk away from a G2, or push it over with the insufferable disarm meta.

Edited by Itanimulli

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I'd personally like all races to have Light/Heavyweight Classes tbh, so this is a nice step. One thing that I'd like to see is making it possible for an IPC to retrofit a brace out of metal/plasteel that allows them to walk a bit more normally with a destroyed servo. Obviously, this brace would snap into splinters at the smell of brute damage.

 

Also, so do G1's and G2's share the exact same values now? Because it was my understanding that G2's were given more armor in exchange for greater speed loss.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Butterrobber202 said:

I'd personally like all races to have Light/Heavyweight Classes tbh, so this is a nice step. One thing that I'd like to see is making it possible for an IPC to retrofit a brace out of metal/plasteel that allows them to walk a bit more normally with a destroyed servo. Obviously, this brace would snap into splinters at the smell of brute damage.

 

Also, so do G1's and G2's share the exact same values now? Because it was my understanding that G2's were given more armor in exchange for greater speed loss.

 

 

That's a fantastic idea, and yes. The different species share the same values - xions and baselines have the same as one another, for example as well.

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It is a interesting idea, but I have to agree with some of the points raised by @K0NFL1QT.
The addition of organs, "bleeding", "venting of coolant" (which is basically hunger/thirst in another shape), ... could lead to them feeling more and more like "just another human resprite".

Another one of my concerns is the very minor effect EMPs seem to have on them.
I strongly believe that a mechanical species should be effected quite a bit more by EMPs than a organic species.
This change would actually change it so people with robotic limbs are worse off than a IPC.
(The IPC would just get temporarily blinded where as the person with the robotic limbs would have issues using that limb in question).

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Out of curiosity, how will this NanoPaste change affect the Xenoarchology wing of science? It spawns with NanoPaste in it because the scanning machines for artifacts require NanoPaste to heal/function after the first scan or two. Will I have to constantly ask R&D for more paste now so I can do scans or will we just spawn more tubes down there?

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1 minute ago, Arrow768 said:

It is a interesting idea, but I have to agree with some of the points raised by @K0NFL1QT.
The addition of organs, "bleeding", "venting of coolant" (which is basically hunger/thirst in another shape), ... could lead to them feeling more and more like "just another human resprite".

Another one of my concerns is the very minor effect EMPs seem to have on them.
I strongly believe that a mechanical species should be effected quite a bit more by EMPs than a organic species.
This change would actually change it so people with robotic limbs are worse off than a IPC.
(The IPC would just get temporarily blinded where as the person with the robotic limbs would have issues using that limb in question).

I think I never said prosthetics weren't EMP resistant. They still carry over the same resists and resistances, at least they should.

 

Just now, CommanderXor said:

Out of curiosity, how will this NanoPaste change affect the Xenoarchology wing of science? It spawns with NanoPaste in it because the scanning machines for artifacts require NanoPaste to heal/function after the first scan or two. Will I have to constantly ask R&D for more paste now so I can do scans or will we just spawn more tubes down there?

An idea someone had was to make Nanopaste only work on organs or the spectrometry stuff in the xenoarcheology lab. I'm leaning more into that idea now, with combat nanopaste working as the document states.

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8 minutes ago, kyres1 said:

I think I never said prosthetics weren't EMP resistant. They still carry over the same resists and resistances, at least they should. 

I advice to update the EMP section then, since that sais: "IPCs will take no major damage from EMPs except to the optics"
 

Spoiler
2 hours ago, kyres1 said:

On EMPs

IPCs will now be temporarily blinded by EMPs across the board (Certain frames will be stunned.) HKs will be blinded as well.

IPCs will take no major damage from EMPs except to the optics, which will take 2 damage from weak EMPs and 5 from strong EMPs. Their health cap is 30, for  reference, and they go blind at like 15 if it operates like normal eyes. 

 

 

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Reworking nanopaste seems a little too far and would skew the actual preformance of this rework imo.

 

There are many times where some dingbat throws an emp and gets a collateral and literally can't do crap because there's only one bench to repair people on. If nanopaste gets borked I see no reason for IPCs not to be able to self-repair, especially when there are more ways to give them a bad day.... especially if getting emp'd still puts them in a permanent state of always falling over.

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To nanopaste : If its use is reduced maybe its cost should be too ? It would mean that a stressed roboticist still can get enough if he needs it, but a sec IPC would need to fill his entire backpack to do poper field maintenance either way. 

About cooling : I like it, as long as an IPC can still work normaly (Walk, EVA with cooler etc) without it its a nice way of hindering IPC´s in combat situations without making them die outright. Even the Lubrication is well thought out in the way that you need to move. So an IPC can still try to hold out for long if they arent actively hunted or found an hiding place.

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56 minutes ago, A.I.M.M.O. said:

To nanopaste : If its use is reduced maybe its cost should be too ? It would mean that a stressed roboticist still can get enough if he needs it, but a sec IPC would need to fill his entire backpack to do poper field maintenance either way. 

The problem regarding Nanopaste comparative to regular healing items is that they work instantly doubled with the fact that IPCs have no paincrits it can make them rather durable annoyances that simply keep popping up. So Im all for the changes as it gives Robotics to do even if RnD is producing Nanopaste.

On the general appeal, its good. I generally enjoy it as it gives me as a pathetic die hard robotics main something to do in the long run and replaces the rather.. humerous and simplistic organ system of the IPCs with something more understandable. I however dont understand the concerns raised by @K0NFL1QT as something bad as IPCs are in the state they are right now already just re-skinned but easier to heal humans.

I do agree with @Arrow768, the effects of EMP's should be increased as a temporary blind + a stun that will sometimes happen depening on the frame isnt really something Im looking forward to, just makes EMP grenades the IPC flashbang, except you will never see EMP grenades on the same level as flashbangs. So I much rather keep the overall damage done to the limbs.

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If the robotic limbs are still affected, won't emps still have, more or less, the same ability to mess up someone's life?

@kyres1

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1 hour ago, Itanimulli said:

If the robotic limbs are still affected, won't emps still have, more or less, the same ability to mess up someone's life?

@kyres1

You misinterpret. Robotic limbs are not affected. Mechanical organs may be a different story, depending on how that turns out, as a mechanical heart probably makes sense to die to EMP anyway.

Also, the extent of EMP's damage against IPCs will be tweaked. A stun for all frames varying in duration based off of chassis and a blind for HKs sounds good to me. What do you guys think?

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19 minutes ago, kyres1 said:

You misinterpret. Robotic limbs are not affected. Mechanical organs may be a different story, depending on how that turns out, as a mechanical heart probably makes sense to die to EMP anyway.

Also, the extent of EMP's damage against IPCs will be tweaked. A stun for all frames varying in duration based off of chassis and a blind for HKs sounds good to me. What do you guys think?

The heavier the frame, the longer it takes to recalibrate/recover from the stun? Perhaps something along the lines of how borgs cut out when flashed? Overloaded systems and the like.

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4 hours ago, kyres1 said:

You misinterpret. Robotic limbs are not affected. Mechanical organs may be a different story, depending on how that turns out, as a mechanical heart probably makes sense to die to EMP anyway.

Also, the extent of EMP's damage against IPCs will be tweaked. A stun for all frames varying in duration based off of chassis and a blind for HKs sounds good to me. What do you guys think?

I do believe adding organ damage to the EMP's effect would be fitting, simply to actually some worth out of those things.

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A suggestion I had for full positronic death. I believe a new system should be in place for IPC Cloning, due to them not having one should they die.

We could have something similar where a dead positronic brain needs to be scanned to have files backed up, and similar to the clone memory disorder add the rule that you cannot remember everything from a certain amount of time, or even toss in some robotic versions of genetic defects like the multi-personality disorder, maybe only being able to see in greyscale, etc.

Alternatively, a backup system could be a thing as well, where the IPC has to actively go to a roboticist to have their positronic data stored, in case theirs is destroyed, add the same issues from fragmentation, and then only allow them memories from everything before that backup.

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1 hour ago, ToasterStrudel said:

A suggestion I had for full positronic death. I believe a new system should be in place for IPC Cloning, due to them not having one should they die.

We could have something similar where a dead positronic brain needs to be scanned to have files backed up, and similar to the clone memory disorder add the rule that you cannot remember everything from a certain amount of time, or even toss in some robotic versions of genetic defects like the multi-personality disorder, maybe only being able to see in greyscale, etc.

Alternatively, a backup system could be a thing as well, where the IPC has to actively go to a roboticist to have their positronic data stored, in case theirs is destroyed, add the same issues from fragmentation, and then only allow them memories from everything before that backup.

I Like the direction of this, but if it really would be needed depends on how easily Positronics die, i personaly read it as "If you want you can kill a posibrain in different ways now" so more an active than a pasive act to make sure they cant be recovered, like maybe if you shoot the head a few times more and a certain message comes up confirming that the posi is dead.
If an posi can be destroyed like any other organ though and a good places sniper shot (or a few more) could kill an IPC, then the data retrievalk thing might be a good idea. ? But you couldnt do the scan really because the Posi would already be destroyed/damaged .. Using a backup could be too strong though. Yes robotics would need the materials for  a whole new posi everytime you die, but your char could jump into the SM without the player having to worry that they cant be revived (other than robotics denying reconstruction after such a stupid action)

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