Player Complaint - TheOrleans

[Zaeperry99]

BYOND Key: Zaeperry99
[b]Game ID:[/b] N/A
Player Byond Key: TheOrleans
Staff involved: N/A
Reason for complaint: Blatant toxicity, personal attacks on regular members of the community, and a very evident disregard and even malice for anyone else in the playerbase, both staff and non-staff. Personal attacks included things such as outright lies in a staff complaint, extremely condescending remarks to other players, and most specifically, from the linked forum post:

Quote

Your peace means nothing since you are the one involved in this staff complaint, and I'm complaining a second admin decision. You have already made very clear that you are a greedy new mod who has serious problems in his life and wants to go around having people banned to feel powerful. You speak at me like that, you get the same. Man, if you are badly treated in your injection plant, don't bring it here buddy.

I know it's not my place to suggest judgement, but I want to be clear since this person has already been permabanned: I think there is absolutely no place in our community for this kind of behavior, and that a forum ban should be applied before more people have personal attacks hurled their way.

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? N/A: Issue on the forums.
Approximate Date/Time:: Forum post linked below.

 

[Doxxmedearly]

I feel as though this should be a ban request, maybe. One I'd support.

Let us also look at this part of the linked thread:

Quote

You are no one to judge me, the punishment or my story, buddy, you are just a griefer.

To show the very recent history of this behavior, there are plenty of other threads to view similar conduct.

His command whitelist thread is full of passive aggressive and backhanded remarks. Full of players noting his poor attitude.

https://forums.aurorastation.org/topic/11969-denied-command-whitelist-app-theorleans/

In one of his most recent player complaint threads, we have more aggressive and rude behavior, such as consistent accusations of a player acting in bad faith, even after Garn asked him to dial it back. Again, also full of players noting his terrible attitude.

Quote

My complaint has an insulting and disrespectful tone towards the ones quoted, indeed, because they insulted me with their griefing behaviour, and it seems they're not getting punished because people had fun seeing a disabled man being beaten to death, cause he is a disliked character. In real life you would be crying and screaming, wanting to remove your eyes from your face if you saw a person getting brutally slaughtered in front of you, but you are not able to think about it.

Nick is not that thing you just wrote without having any deep interaction with him, you are just a bunch of people with too much stereotypes and feeling superior than others, not even trying to get to know them well before judging them.

Admitting to his tone, while also accusing everyone else of poor faith and bullying. 

More evidence of his toxic tone in his complaint against synth:

https://forums.aurorastation.org/topic/12066-staff-complaint-3-days-ban-by-house-of-synth/?do=findComment&comment=115925

 

Honestly, I think Orleans is toxic without the ability to recognize it. Very few times does he actually take any responsibility for his comments or his actions, instead trying to pass them off as other people being bullies. I'm not going to armchair psych him. I will just agree that he has no place in this community while his attitude has no signs of changing. Time away may help. Prior bans (temp and perma) and warnings have not corrected his behavior. I want to see you improve, man, I really do. But until you can, I don't want to see you here.

 

edit: This'll be my only post, unless clarification or further evidence is needed.

Edited June 25, 2019 by Doxxmedearly
gonna also try to keep this from getting messy

[Zaeperry99]

3 minutes ago, Doxxmedearly said:

I feel as though this should be a ban request, maybe. One I'd support.

I'm making a vague attempt to make this complaint and keep interaction minimal afterwards, because I am somewhat sensitive and very much easily egged on by personal attacks and worry about my ability to keep civil while having insults hurled my way, but I'll respond when clarification is needed:
While I wanted to make a ban request, the rules specifically stated that it's only for outright griefing - things that would've warranted a ban regardless but no admin was around to do so, as far as I can tell.

[LorenLuke]

17 hours ago, TheOrleans said:

17 hours ago, Shadow7889 said:

I do not care. It is against the rules. First time or not. 

I know you have to warn me for it.

While I'm not generally one to ascribe intent, I did notice this in the complaint thread, which strikes me as a bad-intent skirting of discipline policy insofar of, 'I know I was rude and it's against the rules, but I've not been warned before so this means the first one is free' as some sort of barrier against such displays of attitude against staff. 

Beyond this post, I've nothing to say other than it seems that such attempts are to bend what they can to their advantage as best they can to justify (or at least avoid punishment) for known breaking of rules.

 

 

 

[TheOrleans]

Hello folks! One by one I'll be answering

6 hours ago, LorenLuke said:

While I'm not generally one to ascribe intent, I did notice this in the complaint thread, which strikes me as a bad-intent skirting of discipline policy insofar of, 'I know I was rude and it's against the rules, but I've not been warned before so this means the first one is free' as some sort of barrier against such displays of attitude against staff. 

Beyond this post, I've nothing to say other than it seems that such attempts are to bend what they can to their advantage as best they can to justify (or at least avoid punishment) for known breaking of rules.

This was the only time I ever felt disrespected by a staff member, and I answered to a trial mod the same way he talked to me. With little respect. 

8 hours ago, Zaeperry99 said:

I'm making a vague attempt to make this complaint and keep interaction minimal afterwards, because I am somewhat sensitive and very much easily egged on by personal attacks and worry about my ability to keep civil while having insults hurled my way, but I'll respond when clarification is needed:
While I wanted to make a ban request, the rules specifically stated that it's only for outright griefing - things that would've warranted a ban regardless but no admin was around to do so, as far as I can tell.

I don't even know who you are tbh

8 hours ago, Doxxmedearly said:

I feel as though this should be a ban request, maybe. One I'd support.

Let us also look at this part of the linked thread:

To show the very recent history of this behavior, there are plenty of other threads to view similar conduct.

His command whitelist thread is full of passive aggressive and backhanded remarks. Full of players noting his poor attitude.

https://forums.aurorastation.org/topic/11969-denied-command-whitelist-app-theorleans/

In one of his most recent player complaint threads, we have more aggressive and rude behavior, such as consistent accusations of a player acting in bad faith, even after Garn asked him to dial it back. Again, also full of players noting his terrible attitude.

First read the whole command whitelist app, since most of the complaints are against the behaviour of a character of mine, while none of the others are quoted about it. And you know what? I will take a bit of my time to list all the players who posted anything negative about me OOCly (not speaking about my characters, but about me and how I behave OOCly). My hypothesis is that many players are always the same, posting in all my threads and making a lot of noise. I will either confirm this hypothesis or show it's false. I will count the answers to this post, the last player complaint (the one you are talking about), Prate staff complaint and the whitelist app.

Negative Posts

FreshRefreshments (x4)

Scheveningen (x6)

SHODAN (x2)

Shestrying (x5)

You (x3)

The creator of this complaint who I don't even know. 

 

Yeah, it seems like some players are making a lot of noise with 5 or 4 posts. It's curious how two of the ones making the most noise (Fresh and Schev) are players that had bad interactions ICly with me quite frequently and one of them had a recent complaint from me against him.

 

I also had a couple of players saying positive things like how2add. 

 

EDIT: Btw, I was already warned for that comment in the forums so if you want my punishment to be increased, follow the proper path and fill a staff complaint against the one who issued the warning.

 

Edited June 26, 2019 by TheOrleans

[Xelnagahunter]

I've been a fairly silent bystander while watching things with you. I've also attempted to be helpful and have given you nothing but honest and single-minded respect at every moment I have interacted with you in any way. I'd like to weigh in here though as this seems to be an important topic that you do not seem to understand Orleans. You step out of line consistently.

You argue everything to the most minute detail and act like everyone in the world is out to get you. You cling to one time statements, both positive and negative, as if spur-of-the-moment actions and one-time thoughts are final. You act as though a due process is strictly enforced in a gaming community and on a gaming server. The simple fact is that you are brash, rude, condescending, angry, and boisterous at nearly all time in which you interact with the community. You have been spoken to about this on many occasions and in the public eye, yet you refuse to keep your chill during many situations and speak in a manner that shows us some thought over emotional response.

You're typical response to someone who posts in any quantity of disagreement to you is:
 

Quote

First read the whole...

This is just assuming that we haven't and that we haven't found some holes in your logic or even evidence. I have silently agreed on many threads against you because it would not have been proper for me to reply in those situations. This is where it finally is. I don't think you fully grasp the concept of the first rule written on both our server and forums.

And before you tell me about that only being on the server as it talks about in-game communications...

Your activity has been the cause of a lot of talk and there are people that meme about it, but there are enough people that genuinely dislike the vibes you give off and give to this community and game, myself included.

Also, regarding not knowing who people are, you don't have to. We know you. You have a large footprint here and use a very loud voice whenever you have something to say. Because of this we have all walked through these forums and seen the way you interact with people.

On the topic of the complaint, I do agree that this should result in something long term if that does not already happen elsewhere. I'd love to see improvement but I don't think that will happen while you are here. I think you need to spend some time away, give yourself ample time to think over your actions and behaviors and to think about the points of view coming from others. Getting in trouble and saying things like "I know you have to warn me", even if it was a good faith acknowledgement of you doing wrong, is bad. The fact that you KNOW you did something wrong and did it anyway or didn't seem to care at first is part of that problem.

Take away from my comments what you want, I harbor no particular ill will against you and don't outright dislike you, I just don't think you belong in the same community as I do with your current behavior.

[ShesTrying]

Orleans has shown himself, time and time again, not to put roleplay first, but to put winning first. I get it. I get the rush when I 'win' the game too. However, I also understand how important it is to facilitate roleplay and interactions. Stories. As a high rp server with such a kind and welcoming community as the norm, I'm surprised you've been able to stick around for so long. Your attitude is blatantly awful. You focus on gameplay over roleplay, and as soon as someone doesn't agree with you, you throw a fit, blame everyone but yourself, and don't realize that the best way to get out of a mistake you have made is to take accountability for your own actions. If this turns into a ban request, I will wholeheartedly support it.

 

[TheOrleans]

57 minutes ago, Xelnagahunter said:

I've been a fairly silent bystander while watching things with you. I've also attempted to be helpful and have given you nothing but honest and single-minded respect at every moment I have interacted with you in any way. I'd like to weigh in here though as this seems to be an important topic that you do not seem to understand Orleans. You step out of line consistently.

You argue everything to the most minute detail and act like everyone in the world is out to get you. You cling to one time statements, both positive and negative, as if spur-of-the-moment actions and one-time thoughts are final. You act as though a due process is strictly enforced in a gaming community and on a gaming server. The simple fact is that you are brash, rude, condescending, angry, and boisterous at nearly all time in which you interact with the community. You have been spoken to about this on many occasions and in the public eye, yet you refuse to keep your chill during many situations and speak in a manner that shows us some thought over emotional response.

You're typical response to someone who posts in any quantity of disagreement to you is:
 

This is just assuming that we haven't and that we haven't found some holes in your logic or even evidence. I have silently agreed on many threads against you because it would not have been proper for me to reply in those situations. This is where it finally is. I don't think you fully grasp the concept of the first rule written on both our server and forums.

And before you tell me about that only being on the server as it talks about in-game communications...

Your activity has been the cause of a lot of talk and there are people that meme about it, but there are enough people that genuinely dislike the vibes you give off and give to this community and game, myself included.

Also, regarding not knowing who people are, you don't have to. We know you. You have a large footprint here and use a very loud voice whenever you have something to say. Because of this we have all walked through these forums and seen the way you interact with people.

On the topic of the complaint, I do agree that this should result in something long term if that does not already happen elsewhere. I'd love to see improvement but I don't think that will happen while you are here. I think you need to spend some time away, give yourself ample time to think over your actions and behaviors and to think about the points of view coming from others. Getting in trouble and saying things like "I know you have to warn me", even if it was a good faith acknowledgement of you doing wrong, is bad. The fact that you KNOW you did something wrong and did it anyway or didn't seem to care at first is part of that problem.

Take away from my comments what you want, I harbor no particular ill will against you and don't outright dislike you, I just don't think you belong in the same community as I do with your current behavior.

Your comments about me are usually important to me, like the one in my whitelist app, since I have high-esteem for you. This time is not the exception and I know I fail, and I usually acknowledge them personally to the staff member (I always speak to the staff member on discord after getting a punishment, not to have it lifted, but to discuss the reasons and how to improve.

However the threads are showing that a limited amount of players make a lot of noise about me, and I think that's something we should take into account.

And about the comment against Cake. He disrespected me, I did the same. You won't find any other punishment, note or warning regarding disrespects from my side anywhere.

53 minutes ago, ShesTrying said:

Orleans has shown himself, time and time again, not to put roleplay first, but to put winning first. I get it. I get the rush when I 'win' the game too. However, I also understand how important it is to facilitate roleplay and interactions. Stories. As a high rp server with such a kind and welcoming community as the norm, I'm surprised you've been able to stick around for so long. Your attitude is blatantly awful. You focus on gameplay over roleplay, and as soon as someone doesn't agree with you, you throw a fit, blame everyone but yourself, and don't realize that the best way to get out of a mistake you have made is to take accountability for your own actions. If this turns into a ban request, I will wholeheartedly support it.

I will add a x1 to the times you have posted against me. This is just supporting my hypothesis that some players are making a lot of noise against me.

[Scheveningen]

It's not just noise, you're legitimately picking and choosing who you want to listen to. You're choosing not to listen. You're choosing not to implement any feedback you've received to order to change. Therefore, people are changing their approach in how they want you dealt with. It's how it works. It's how this has always worked. You've been unpleasant ICly, OOCly, and towards staff on top of that. You barely acknowledge that, you barely acknowledge whether you're trying to change, you barely even show that you want to treat people better. Why shouldn't you be banned?

[LorenLuke]

4 hours ago, TheOrleans said:

This was the only time I ever felt disrespected by a staff member, and I answered to a trial mod the same way he talked to me. With little respect. 

I only bring this up because you then and here acknowledge that, under the rules as written, a deliberate choice to disregard the rule with regards to respecting staff/others. It's not 'Don't be a dick unless they are one to you' it's just 'Don't be a dick.' 

Their behavior is on them, for sure, but this isn't about them; it's about you. You made a choice, chips fall where they may as consequence. If you don't see that as something done wrong on your part, then I'm not sure how anyone else's argument can be addressed in your favor with regards to their concerns.

[TheOrleans]

31 minutes ago, Scheveningen said:

It's not just noise, you're legitimately picking and choosing who you want to listen to. You're choosing not to listen. You're choosing not to implement any feedback you've received to order to change. Therefore, people are changing their approach in how they want you dealt with. It's how it works. It's how this has always worked. You've been unpleasant ICly, OOCly, and towards staff on top of that. You barely acknowledge that, you barely acknowledge whether you're trying to change, you barely even show that you want to treat people better. Why shouldn't you be banned?

See, another post of yours. It's always the same people xD

27 minutes ago, LorenLuke said:

I only bring this up because you then and here acknowledge that, under the rules as written, a deliberate choice to disregard the rule with regards to respecting staff/others. It's not 'Don't be a dick unless they are one to you' it's just 'Don't be a dick.' 

Their behavior is on them, for sure, but this isn't about them; it's about you. You made a choice, chips fall where they may as consequence. If you don't see that as something done wrong on your part, then I'm not sure how anyone else's argument can be addressed in your favor with regards to their concerns.

I was already warned for that.

[Xelnagahunter]

2 hours ago, TheOrleans said:

Your comments about me are usually important to me, like the one in my whitelist app, since I have high-esteem for you. This time is not the exception and I know I fail, and I usually acknowledge them personally to the staff member (I always speak to the staff member on discord after getting a punishment, not to have it lifted, but to discuss the reasons and how to improve.

However the threads are showing that a limited amount of players make a lot of noise about me, and I think that's something we should take into account.

And about the comment against Cake. He disrespected me, I did the same. You won't find any other punishment, note or warning regarding disrespects from my side anywhere.

 

1 hour ago, TheOrleans said:

I was already warned for that.

You have a way of misrepresenting what is being said to you. You take things too literally sometimes and it's making us feel like we beat a dead horse trying to talk to you. In your whitelist application specifically, I was not the only one saying what I said. Others had said it before me and I tried to help clarify. I then had to make another post to clarify that one because you still sounded like you didn't quite get my point.

People aren't only discussing you on the forums, you are the topic of a decent amount of chatter on here, discord, and even the server. People are reacting to you in an organic manner based upon the behavior you display when talking to others. Getting punished for something, even if you willingly accept your wrong doing, does not absolve you of the thing. Let's take the comments to Cake as an example: You typed rude and disrespectful things to someone in "retaliation" for being disrespected. What was said that was disrespectful? He spoke to you harshly, as a staff member who is punishing a player should. He was the player involved so he had a right to post on the thread and as a staff member he has access to your notes, which sound extensive. In your retaliation you attacked his personal life, you also called him a "greedy new mod" when it was already stated that he has served time as staff prior to his current trial. You went out of your way to blast someone's character with no proof of anything. AFTER you got in trouble from ANOTHER MOD, you wrote the whole thing off as "my bad." Then you sit here and talk about being warned for it like it should be swept under the rug. The point is that you did something that you KNEW was wrong from the get go. People will think less of you for that. They will talk and this will be something people remember you for.

If you weren't so busy defending your "honor" you'd be able to look at the people around you and realize that people have less fun when you are around. I'm not saying everyone. I knew a kid in high school that was hated by most of the school. He had a few friends, people whom either respected or feared him, but everyone else was miserable with him around. Coming to the forums and finding threads like this is draining for me, even when I'm not responding to them. Reading the levels of toxicity that you throw at everyone ruins bits of me every single time I find it. I try to find the good in everything, but I can't see it in you at this point. Like I said before, it's nothing personal. I don't dislike you. I just can't let you act this way and drag me down with you.

Please think about your behavior and the way you have talked to people. Look at it from an outside point of view as if someone else were in your spot and you in theirs. Would you really feel like being around that? Hell, you already think some of the server is "after you," why do you want to be around THAT?

[geeves]

5 hours ago, TheOrleans said:

See, another post of yours. It's always the same people xD

Are you serious?

[Faris]

11 hours ago, TheOrleans said:

I don't even know who you are tbh

 My hypothesis is that many players are always the same, posting in all my threads and making a lot of noise

Yeah, it seems like some players are making a lot of noise with 5 or 4 posts. It's curious how two of the ones making the most noise (Fresh and Schev) are players that had bad interactions ICly with me quite frequently and one of them had a recent complaint from me against him.

See, another post of yours. It's always the same people xD

9- You are no one to judge me, the punishment or my story, buddy, you are just a griefer.

PD: Don't compare yourself with Abo, you sound ridiculous.

Took you a while to think about some reasons as an excuse to do what you did, right? If you thought about those reasons BEFORE doing it, instead of acting like a griefer, you would have told Garnascus in the ahelp.

It would be a good reason, indeed, if he brought it up the moment you bwoinked him, cause that would have meant that he had that in his mind as the reason to break the bottle on my head. But he didn't. shrug

My complaint has an insulting and disrespectful tone towards the ones quoted, indeed, because they insulted me with their griefing behaviour, 

Did you even read the article? Lmao

These are very bad ways to address things. I found them on the recent complaints. 

You should not be conducting yourself in this way. Attacking the source of the argument as opposed to what they're arguing is exceedingly low. Instead of saying the equivalent that haters will be haters, argue why the reason for hate is misplaced or false. The way you are now is only supporting their argument. 

When there is an increment of people complaining, then it should be realized there is an issue.

1- The person that placed this complaint is an upstanding member of this community 

2- I don't know why you're acting as my white knight. Cake has been in the community longer than I have and have been staff for longer than I have. The fact we re-applied together made me immensely happy.

3- You practically asked for this complaint, prompting people in others complaints and I believe elsewhere to post things in the appropriate places, which is here and got this complaint made.

Quote

If you want me punished OOCly, make your own complaint.

 

[Alberyk]

I will deal with this.

After taking a look into your behavior, and some new information that was brought to us. I am applying a permaban on the player, from the community as whole, discord and forums. And I don't plan to lift those bans at all.

Since, said player used to play on a ckey that had an already large collection of note, warnings and bans, alongside two permabans (that are now lifted). However, the player made a new account, the one that is now subject to this complaint, and did not tell the staff they were the same person. Resulting in it getting a large collection of notes and etc, because staff was sure they were someone. In the end, they just abused changing computers, location and ips to avoid being caught, until their lastest permaban. This is bad faith, and you would not even be given 1/3 of the chances you were in the neworleans ckey if we knew about this.

This complaint is solved. I will archive this in around 24 hours.

[geeves]

But we got 'em.