New Armor: An Unsolvable Dilemma

[MattAtlas]

Hello. I come to you in these trying times with the promise of an armor rework and the question of how to do it. Currently, our armor system is very binary. It either blocks half the damage or does nothing. Pretty bad, right? That's why I want to rework it.

However, the question is how. How should new armor behave? I've thought up two reasonable alternatives. In both cases armor will decided by the plates you put into a carrier.

1. The plates have a durability system, so to speak: shooting a ceramic plate a bunch (number of exact shots TBA) will break it, and it will no longer be as effective. Think a 75% to 100% reduction on its effectiveness. While your plates are working fine, they'll deduct a % from shots that hit your armour. For example, a plate with 100% health and 70% bullet damage reduction will deduct a solid 70% from all bullets. A plate at 50% health will deduct a solid 35% (50% of 75%) from shots that hit you. I have ideas for how to handle mercenary armor/voidsuits/rigsuits and such, so that will not be a problem.

2. Armor will just deduct a solid % based on its armor values. Nothing more, nothing less. This will come with some adjustments such as making exponentially smaller damage be ineffective.

I am now asking you to help me decide which system I'll have to go for. Go nuts in the comements.

 

[wowzewow]

I definitely think the durability system would be extremely interesting, with many more features which could be tacked on,

e.g. repairing armor, makeshift armor, crafting, sliding in armored plates and stuff, armor mods...

And it'll also make fights more dynamic - you could possibly win through attrition in prolonged gunfights, instead of trying to cheese it by injecting sleepy juice and slicing their head off.

Also, cross resistance damage. Taking a bullet in your radiation suit means radiation will leak in - leading to both reduced bullet and radiation resistance.

However, it'll also make it exponentially harder and a P.I.T.A to code as well as balance properly, since you know, there's so many variables.

Unless you're up to it, of course, which means just no problem.

[Kintsugi]

Consider me hard in favor of #1. Overhauling armor to be very effective at absorbing hits to start with, and gradually losing effectiveness as damage is taken, has always been something I've wanted in SS13. It would pair very well with more lethal combat - armor would be extremely effective initially, but the longer you fight the less effective it is.

[sonicgotnuked]

Armor durability would be great. It allows so many uses and allows someone to easily modify it. Then perhaps you have to fix it with more plasteel/what ever material or item there is.

[Boggle08]

As long as the new plate durability/carrier system supports crafting from materials/autolathes, I'm game. It'd give more reasons for people to swing by cargo. It would also be nice to assemble the ultimate trash armor.

I dunno how demanding such a suggestion would be, but I recommend also giving us the ability to craft or acquire things such as leg and arm protection. Stuff we can pin either to the carrier itself or our jumpsuits. For most armors(and most races), Damage resistances are localized in the chest and head. For melee combat in particular, the best way to win a fight is by going for the legs until they break, causing the spaceman to go sideways and drop his shit. It's a great equalizer, but having armor countermeasures would necessitate more variety in combat.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Boggle08

[IAmCrystalClear]

as long as non-humans get arm and leg protection im game

[Doxxmedearly]

After talking with you and seeing the idea of it being plates, I can agree with a durability system. However, we must be careful for powergaming on all fronts. Carrying around plates and swapping them would absolutely be a meta if it was easy to do. Though I think this is easily resolved with two things: Taking time to swap plating, and making them too large for bags.

I am interested to see your voidsuit/hardsuit ideas. A blessed change, in any case.

[Pratepresidenten]

1 hour ago, Doxxmedearly said:

making them too large for bags.

This seems by far like the easiest fix. Me like.

Also In big favor of the durability idea if that wasnt a given.

[DronzTheWolf]

I don't know about making plates too large for bags, but making them very large in bags would definitely work. If they're too large for bags it'd be a big hassle because it'd make armor have the same disadvantage as lasers, that being that once it's used for a short time it becomes practically useless unless you leave combat to hurry up and wait. 

[Talkarcabbage]

Don't we have a per-body-location-armor-summarizing system right now? 

Main concern for me personally would be to make sure radiation is still blocked as effectively as it is currently by hazard suits (aka we aren't dying to a supped up supermatter with a full hp radsuit), as those use the armor system (and they broke for a little while back with the last armor rework, which had introduced a null bug). 

A qualitative way of telling/examining how damaged armor is might also be helpful. E.g. "It looks fully intact, " "It looks slightly damaged," "It looks utterly destroyed" etc

A secondary concern would be something along the lines of "a single bullet hole shouldn't make my [rad]suit 35% less effective at protecting my entire head and legs" situation. 

[MattAtlas]

16 hours ago, Talkarcabbage said:

Don't we have a per-body-location-armor-summarizing system right now? 

Main concern for me personally would be to make sure radiation is still blocked as effectively as it is currently by hazard suits (aka we aren't dying to a supped up supermatter with a full hp radsuit), as those use the armor system (and they broke for a little while back with the last armor rework, which had introduced a null bug). 

A qualitative way of telling/examining how damaged armor is might also be helpful. E.g. "It looks fully intact, " "It looks slightly damaged," "It looks utterly destroyed" etc

A secondary concern would be something along the lines of "a single bullet hole shouldn't make my [rad]suit 35% less effective at protecting my entire head and legs" situation. 

Radiation is a special case currently.

QoL features will be added for sure.

That probably won't happen.

[Itanimulli]

IMO this means we can open the way for different kinds of materials holding up better. Like, a steel plate isn't going to lose effectiveness because a 9mm pinged off of it, but something like a deagle will definitely compromise it; or, a laser would slag it if it hit enough times.

[nicemoreoften]

armor needing maint mostly affects those who cant get more armor, probably hits heisters very hard

[Zundy]

Imo sec and the boys shouldn't really have access to "armor plate replacements" as standard and should have to rely on other departments for those. Maybe be able to wrangle some low tech plates from an autolathe and a smart cargo tech but the big stuff probably should require the research department. 1) For balance as antags won't have access to seas of repairs and 2) cross department interaction.

[Scheveningen]

Gonna bump this so hard. I'm personally in favor of #1.

[Valkrae]

On 08/05/2020 at 18:10, Zundy said:

Imo sec and the boys shouldn't really have access to "armor plate replacements" as standard and should have to rely on other departments for those. Maybe be able to wrangle some low tech plates from an autolathe and a smart cargo tech but the big stuff probably should require the research department. 1) For balance as antags won't have access to seas of repairs and 2) cross department interaction.

as someone who's a weapons tech science main, I welcome any new systems devoted to weapons & armour. Getting to fiddle with protection/weight ratios would be fun.

a question, what about the different round types? would we see specialized armour for blaster-bolts, lasers, and other energy stuff?