DanseMacabre's Human Lore Deputy Application

[Kintsugi]

Ckey/BYOND Username: DanseMacabre
Position Being Applied For: Human Lore Deputy
Have you read the Lore Team Rules and Regulations wiki page?: I have, yes. I would like to point out that the event section is completely inaccessible to normal players, though.
Past Experiences/Knowledge: 

Spoiler

1. I wrote some lore for Baystation 12, which was accepted but I ultimately did not follow through with canonization because of a disagreement regarding mechanical representation.

2. I have written lore that fits within Aurora's universe, including a planet which is currently up for canonization. I have also worked on integrating the lore into the game with mechanical representation.

3. While this example may in fact work against me, I also wrote lore for Escalation 1984, another SS13 server.

4. I have also prototyped lore for a fantasy-themed SS13 server, which ultimately did not materialize.

Examples of Past Work (Please provide in a Google Doc or other easily accessible external link for sake of space):

Spoiler

Strictly Aurora related:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12a-FQ3QGJSVguwwzwOSUUR7hRRzO9468KDwNz1panE8/edit - This is Visegrad, the planet I currently have up for canonization.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1A_U-D_8ri20yVdRb4uYpfryXcF4B8b41Ei02dSFqID4/edit - This is the document that discusses Visegrad's position in regards to the wildlands.

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/11670 https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/11870 - These are two PRs I've added to the game, both of which are lore-focused. The former adds a Free Solarian Fleets ERT, and the latter adds FSF crewman, SCC functionary, and FIB investigator rescue pods. In my experience (And I am biased, seeing as I made them) I feel that these additions have drastically increased playerbase awareness in lore entities, especially the FSF - anecdotally, I've seen a huge uptick in discussion of the FSF and presence of FSF-related gimmicks.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-eahWD2EZ6cZr-zb2NSAELNMIGa2-iQd4UGGFNrWM9Y/edit - This is another Auroralore planet I wrote, which I never attempted to canonize. It's fairly old now and inevitably going to be out of date, but I do think that it is a good quality autocanon planet.

Other SS13 servers:

https://wiki.baystation12.net/Sandbox/Tartessos - This is the planet which was accepted for canonization on Bay. It isn't my best work and is fairly old now, but I think conceptually and in regards to prose it is sound.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RQHou6a3x0mclKfDNuLsliCUfal4HpIr76qx2UFnahw/edit?usp=sharing - This is the concept lore for the fantasy server I mentioned. This is ultimately a draft and could use some work in regards to readability, I think, again, conceptually and in regards to prose it is perfectly fine.

 

-HUMAN LORE DEPUTY QUESTIONS-

1). Why do you want this position? Why do you believe that you could be a better deputy than others?

Spoiler

To answer the former question? Lore is something I'm very passionate about. I am not exaggerating when I say that lore is a significant component of why I enjoy this game, and one of the reasons why I play Aurora is because the lore, both objectively and in comparison to some competing servers, is outstanding. To be part of the team that makes that lore would be something I would love, and being able to give back to the community in this regard would be a fantastic opportunity. I want to help give the rest of the community the same enjoyment that I got out of the lore, however I can. As for the latter question - it goes back to the start of my previous answer. I feel like my passion for the lore and my drive to write will be my greatest asset if I was to become the next deputy. I think my focus, attention to detail, drive to write and genuine intense interest in the lore, alongside everything else, might just make me a worthwhile candidate for the position.

2). What are three things you enjoy about human lore? Why do you enjoy these things most? These should be ranked from one to three in descending order of favoritism.

Spoiler

I'd say what I enjoy most of all about human lore is perhaps something other people would consider mundane: the focus on being grounded and relatively believable, for a science fiction setting. Human lore has consistently proven to be thoroughly amenable to a logical progression of the setting and other lore developments. Things like the Solarian collapse and the rise of the wildlands, the warlordism and the expansion of Tau Ceti - these all seem less like something astroturfed into being, and more like a consistent and logical conclusion to a situation outlined in the past and used as a basis for our setting for years now. 

My next point is connected - but the portrayal of astropolitics and relations is something I thoroughly enjoy. To see the political scene of the various factions develop and play out in their dealings internally and externally is a fascinating thing to me, and something I feel people neglect to point out is a uniquely Auroran accomplishment. I have, at his point, had countless OOC and IC discussions on the political situation of the various factions, and I feel like this is a truly engaging component of Aurora's setting.

Finally-- the freedom of choice. Human lore offers the most variety of any part of our setting - and you are free to choose from countless backgrounds, allegiances, cultures and factions. This just isn't an option for any other species- even Tajara, whose lore is fantastically diverse and well-developed. The player is free to OOCly discuss and debate the merits of a faction without necessarily being wrong, and the same can be said ICly. The diversity to be found even in one planet is outstanding - within a faction, you could conceivably make dozens of characters without treading too much on previously touched upon ground. This is, in my opinion, a major asset and a major draw for Human lore.

3). What is an area of currently extant lore that you'd like to improve or see improvements made upon? Why do you believe this area should see improvement?

Spoiler

There are two major and outstanding issues I would like to discuss here - which I could identify many more, I feel these two are the most outstanding:
The Human timeline and the Coalition of Colonies - which both suffer from different problems.

Starting with the timeline, there is a reason why it is never really mentioned ingame - the Human timeline is frequently bonkers, and sometimes utterly nonsensical. Far too frequently does it invoke tropes and references from other media, and at the same time it is too specific in some spots. The timeline is a major component of Human lore, and yet we collectively choose to ignore it because it is more trouble than it is currently worth, when it comes to discussion and integration into the rest of the lore and the game. The timeline simply needs a total rework, and I would argue a complete rewrite is warranted- there's not much to salvage from it, in my opinion.

The Coalition suffers from a different problem - it is simply too boring. The Coalition as a distinct government is neglected in comparison to its component planets. Look at the Coalition page and you'll see what I mean: Most of the page is not about the Coalition itself, but rather the planets and other parts that make up the Coalition. While the Coalition's "thing" is that it is a decentralized defensive alliance, that does not mean it must be devoid of any characterizations beyond that. This was painfully obvious during the KotW arc, where the Coalition - which could have been a major player - did practically nothing of note at all. Why? The Coalition simply doesn't have enough noteworthy going on as a government. Instead, the member-planets are where all of the interesting things occur. This, in my opinion, will not do - and I think the Coalition could stand to receive some love. As an aside, the Techno-Conglomerate is really bad and needs a total rewrite from the ground up, which I do have some ideas for.

Another thing, which I won't spend too much time on:
Many of our factions need representation ingame, and not just through characters - I think, in an ideal world, we would be able to interact with every single faction in our lore in a canon capacity. The NBT will really facilitate this, but it isn't too soon to start - right now we can already whip together some ways for other factions to show up, which is something I've personally worked on recently.

4). Assuming you are given the position, which area or project would you like to work on first? Why?

Spoiler

The Coalition is easily the most pressing and significant problem. The timeline is the clay feet that our titan stands on - but the Coalition being boring is the shrunken and deformed left arm of our lore-colossus. The reasoning is relatively straightforward - the timeline can safely be left as it is for a time, because it is something that is already neglected or ignored in just about every part of the lore and the integration into the game. The timeline doesn't come up, and doesn't need to: This is part of why I think it hasn't already received a rework. The Coalition, on the other hand, is a major part of our lore and something that participates constantly within the context of our roleplaying environment, setting, and current events. The Coalition is the bigger issue, and the more visible one - and, I imagine, the one that the playerbase as a collective would rather see fixed first.

5). How effectively do you work in a team environment? Remember that you will be both working in the human lore team and the greater lore team. Your responsibilities are not just writing lore, but being a small part in something larger.

Spoiler

I think I work with a team just fine. I've been involved with some really abysmal teams in my day (Like I mentioned, Escalation 1984), and to be frank I think I held my own just fine. Aurora's lore team is staffed by people I get along with just fine, and I don't see any issues arising.

6.) What is your disciplinary history on the Aurora, if any? (Bans, Warnings, Whitelist Strips) Why did you receive these?

Spoiler

I have never received any disciplinary actions ingame. On the forums, I have two warnings on my account - both (for lack of a better word) for shitposting, and they were given a year apart from each other.

A final note:

Spoiler

I need to address a few elephants in the room- Some people are doubtlessly going to have reservations about me joining the lore team. Whether it is because of my habit for shitposting, my relative obstinance, or my somewhat opinionated nature, there are people I've had disagreements with on Aurora. I would like to extend an olive branch to any and all of these people who see this thread: These are all things I intend to leave behind if I become the next Human lore deputy.

 

[Desven]

While I think you're more than qualified and really passionate about human lore, the only thing I'm wary of is about how blunt or even rude you can be with some people. We've barely interacted, but I know you sometimes can even come across as mean-spirited with others, without giving any positive feedback especially. You also tend to have fairly controversial opinions regarding game mechanics mostly. I guess my only question is that if you are willing to be less opinionated as you've mentioned, or at least keep more to yourself, in order to work with a team?

 

Also, I hope Visegrad gets some love, whether you're accepted or not.

[Roostercat]

Hiya Danse. Nice to see you going for the application, but I do have a concern. 

It isn't exactly secret that you focus quite a lot on Sol, and multiple times I have seen you say that the lore would be better without the aliens or some variation thereof. I am not sure if the latter is just shitposting or not, but I feel I still need to ask how open you would be to working with the other species devs regarding arcs and the like, and how you plan to shape Human lore to work with the other alien factions, as they are just as important as the Human ones. This is not meant to be a gripe or anything, just something I would like clarification on, specifically the anti-alien thing, as I legitimately don't know if it was a joke or not. Thanks!

[Kintsugi]

9 minutes ago, Desven said:

-snip- the only thing I'm wary of is about how blunt or even rude you can be with some people. We've barely interacted, but I know you sometimes can even come across as mean-spirited with others, without giving any positive feedback especially. -snip- I guess my only question is that if you are willing to be less opinionated as you've mentioned, or at least keep more to yourself, in order to work with a team?

My intention is never to be mean-spirited or rude to anyone, so I'd like to apologize for that to anyone who might've felt that way. Moving on, like I said- the way I act is connected to the fact that I am just a normal player. It isn't going to stick around as a member of staff.

5 minutes ago, Roostercat said:

It isn't exactly secret that you focus quite a lot on Sol, and multiple times I have seen you say that the lore would be better without the aliens or some variation thereof. I am not sure if the latter is just shitposting or not, but I feel I still need to ask how open you would be to working with the other species devs regarding arcs and the like, and how you plan to shape Human lore to work with the other alien factions, as they are just as important as the Human ones. This is not meant to be a gripe or anything, just something I would like clarification on, specifically the anti-alien thing, as I legitimately don't know if it was a joke or not. Thanks!

You're right in that me talking about how much "ALIENS SUCK!!!!" is a humor thing. My personal preference is for science fiction settings without aliens - I think this is influenced by my love for media such as Dune or Starsector - but that doesn't mean I don't think aliens are bad within the writing context of our lore. I have nothing but good things to say about Taj, for example. As for Sol - I think the faction is plenty interesting, but that's my personal preference. From a writing perspective, Sol is simply not high on my list of priorities, and if I was to become the next Human lore deputy, my focus would predominantly be on fixing non-Sol factions.

Edited May 17, 2021 by DanseMacabre

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, DanseMacabre said:

my focus would predominantly be on fixing non-Sol factions.

Could you elaborate on this point? You mention the Coalition in-depth in the app itself, but this implies issues with other factions as well. What other human factions do you see problems in, and what changes do you have in mind to fix them?

[Kintsugi]

15 minutes ago, Doc said:

Could you elaborate on this point? You mention the Coalition in-depth in the app itself, but this implies issues with other factions as well. What other human factions do you see problems in, and what changes do you have in mind to fix them?

Elyra and Tau Ceti could both stand to get some work. Elyra itself I would think needs a substantial rework - the problem it faces is relatively similar to the one the Coalition has to deal with. What I want to do is change how the economy works, change the Elyran government in general, and change how the government interacts with Elyran society. Currently, Elyra is relatively two-dimensional and not at all dynamic, which is something that should be changed. As for Tau Ceti, I think the thing that needs an expansion most of all is the Corporate Reconstruction Zone. Finally, it is my opinion that each warlord faction should have a documented planet - because one of the best ways that we can integrate the warlords into the game is by making it so there are concrete places that people come from that have a substantial connection to them.

Edited May 18, 2021 by DanseMacabre

[Lmwevil]

Heyo, I know you've said a ton of anti dionae sentiment in the past. Going to the extent to meme down vote every Diona PR (I admit it amuses me sometimes). Is this representative of your actual thoughts? If not what are your actual thoughts?

[Kintsugi]

1 minute ago, Lmwevil said:

Heyo, I know you've said a ton of anti dionae sentiment in the past. Going to the extent to meme down vote every Diona PR (I admit it amuses me sometimes). Is this representative of your actual thoughts? If not what are your actual thoughts?

I think Dionae are conceptually a flawed species and need a lot of work to be interesting at all. Does this mean I have any intention to burn bridges with the Diona team? No, not at all, and I would happily work with the Diona team to get things done, especially if it means Dionae as a species come away stronger and better-off. Does it mean I personally dislike Diona as a species? Unfortunately it does - but at the same time, that can change, and of course I can get along with people who like things I dislike.

[Susan]

I think Danse would do exceptionally well in the position of human lore deputy. His passion for human lore in general is apparent in the conversations we have - it's a bit of a bad meme that Danse has garnered a reputation as a 'Solaboo', and I feel like this is more extrapolating his opinions from how his character Iliasz is in game than anything else. Coenraad wasn't a nationalist, and he did not have this reputation back then. I've had nothing but good interactions with him on an OOC level as well, and it is very obvious where the jokes end and his real opinions begin. Having seen the work he's put into both his character(s) and his application for Visegard, it's clear to me that he has a great understanding of existing human lore and is passionate about expanding it and making it better. 

I give him my support here.

[DeadLantern]

Hello DanseMacabre...

What do you think the place of Humanity is, in our lore? Should it be more important than the other species's lore? Should humanity be centerfold, with all other species acting as second fiddle to humanity? Do you think only certain human factions deserve reign above all others, or is it humanity in general? Any response is fine.

Besides that question, the passion can not be ignored. You are obviously willing to dish out the time and the skill. The voices before me (and after me) will surely speak about the ability to work within a team, however, which is the most important attribute required to be a lore deputy. Other than these observations, I only have this one question, as you've stated the directions you want to go in if you get the Deputy position.

[Lmwevil]

4 minutes ago, DanseMacabre said:

I think Dionae are conceptually a flawed species and need a lot of work to be interesting at all. Does this mean I have any intention to burn bridges with the Diona team? No, not at all, and I would happily work with the Diona team to get things done, especially if it means Dionae as a species come away stronger and better-off. Does it mean I personally dislike Diona as a species? Unfortunately it does - but at the same time, that can change, and of course I can get along with people who like things I dislike.

The rest of my questions are out of scope for this app as they regard my species. Thanks for your time, feel free to dm me your issues and ideas for improvement of Dionae if you got em at SquidQueen#3107.

 

Good luck.

[Kintsugi]

1 minute ago, DeadLantern said:

What do you think the place of Humanity is, in our lore? Should it be more important than the other species's lore? Should humanity be centerfold, with all other species acting as second fiddle to humanity? Do you think only certain human factions deserve reign above all others, or is it humanity in general? Any response is fine.

This is a hard question to answer without coming off the wrong way. Let me put it like this: Each species has a "sphere", so to speak, that their species and the other species/entities they interact with falls under. Does I think that Humanity should be centerfold? I would argue that it is centerfold. Why? Because right now, every aspect of our setting is within the Human sphere. Tau Ceti is a Human system, in Human space, run by Human megacorporations and a Human government, who are mostly run by Humans, with mostly Humans working for them, and OOCly most people play Human characters more often than not. Should Humanity necessarily be more important than other species- or receive more attention than other species- so on and so forth? From an OOC perspective, of course not. I think every species should receive the same treatment in regards to writing.

Moving back to the "sphere" thing, I think that the best way to make it so Humanity is no longer the keystone species of the game that all things revolve around, is ultimately to focus on leaving the Human sphere at times with the NBT. Traveling into the sphere of other species will be possible with the NBT- and therefore, the stage will rotate between species as we go around the spur. Aliens will be able to go from being the second fiddle, which is what they are right now by design, to each having a turn as the frontman.

[Triogenix]

1 hour ago, DanseMacabre said:

 

  Hide contents

The Coalition suffers from a different problem - it is simply too boring. The Coalition as a distinct government is neglected in comparison to its component planets. Look at the Coalition page and you'll see what I mean: Most of the page is not about the Coalition itself, but rather the planets and other parts that make up the Coalition. While the Coalition's "thing" is that it is a decentralized defensive alliance, that does not mean it must be devoid of any characterizations beyond that. This was painfully obvious during the KotW arc, where the Coalition - which could have been a major player - did practically nothing of note at all. Why? The Coalition simply doesn't have enough noteworthy going on as a government. Instead, the member-planets are where all of the interesting things occur. This, in my opinion, will not do - and I think the Coalition could stand to receive some love. As an aside, the Techno-Conglomerate is really bad and needs a total rewrite from the ground up, which I do have some ideas for.

 

I tend to agree with what you said here, however do you have a specific part of the coalition expansion you could share that would help fix these issues? Ontop of that how would you go about implementing the change you want to see? As in, would the changes be in-universe developments due to recent events, or would they always have been there but are just getting written in now, or a mix of both? I'd like to get an idea of what you see yourself doing with the Coalition without asking and having you write every single detail of whatever idea/plan you may have.

In addition I am also stubborn when it comes to things I care about, or made, and I am assuming you are somewhat similar to me in that way. It seems obvious that you care about, and have a passion for, the lore you wrote/will write if you get this position. With that said, do you think you can deal with sometimes having a piece of lore you worked very hard on either shot down due to whatever circumstance, or tweaked in such a way that it doesn't resemble what you wanted it to be?(an example would be being told to remove/wildly change a part of rewrite you really enjoyed by one of your peers on another lore-team or the human lore dev due to it just not being able to work with the setting or whatever reason that makes sense)I only ask because this is something I had trouble with when I began working in a small team. Though what I do is very different from what you will do if you get this position I believe the difficulties I had may still apply to you, if they don't just ignore the last few sentences.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Triogenix

[Kintsugi]

1 minute ago, Triogenix said:

I tend to agree with what you said here, however do you have a specific part of the coalition expansion you could share that would help fix these issues, and then how would you go about implementing the changes you want to see? As in, would the changes be in-universe developments due to recent events, or would they always have been there but are just getting written in now, or a mix of both? I'd like to get an idea of what you see yourself doing with the Coalition without asking and having you write every single detail of whatever idea/plan you may have.

In addition I am also stubborn when it comes to things I care about, or made, and I am assuming you are somewhat similar to me in that way. It seems obvious that you care about, and have a passion for, the lore you wrote/will write if you get this position. With that said, do you think you can deal with sometimes having a piece of lore you worked very hard on either shot down due to whatever circumstance, or tweaked in such a way that it doesn't resemble what you wanted it to be?(an example would be being told to remove/wildly change a part of rewrite you really enjoyed by one of your peers on another lore-team or the human lore dev due to it just not being able to work with the setting or whatever reason that makes sense)I only ask because this is something I had trouble with when I began working in a small team. Though what I do is very different from what you will do if you get this position I believe the difficulties I had may still apply to you, if they don't just ignore the last few sentences.

I cannot offer a part of a Coalition Expansion right now, as it hasn't been written - I think I'd be getting ahead of myself if I had written a whole faction rework before I even got the position! As for how it'd be implemented, I'd like to go about it with both retroactive additions and with current events. Ultimately my objective would be to make the Coalition government more of an entity, and therefore current events are certainly one way to do it.

As for your second question, I think it'd be a lie if I said that getting something I worked hard on denied would run like water off of my back-- but at the same time, it's something I'm absolutely prepared to death with and I am not at all concerned about it causing issues at all. These things happen, and I think it's going to be just fine.

[Triogenix]

13 minutes ago, DanseMacabre said:

I cannot offer a part of a Coalition Expansion right now, as it hasn't been written - I think I'd be getting ahead of myself if I had written a whole faction rework before I even got the position! As for how it'd be implemented, I'd like to go about it with both retroactive additions and with current events. Ultimately my objective would be to make the Coalition government more of an entity, and therefore current events are certainly one way to do it.

As for your second question, I think it'd be a lie if I said that getting something I worked hard on denied would run like water off of my back-- but at the same time, it's something I'm absolutely prepared to death with and I am not at all concerned about it causing issues at all. These things happen, and I think it's going to be just fine.

I suspected the first part might be the case, I was just curious and interested in any possible thoughts you had on more specifically what to do. I also very much like the idea of more in-universe developments for human factions/planets rather then additions/reworks so I'm looking forward to see how you do it!

As for the second part, that's good! yea, no one ever likes having something they worked hard on go down the drain but being able to deal with it when it inevitably does happen makes or breaks peoples when working in a small team from my experience, and it seems you have the right mindset going in to deal with it.

I have no idea how dev apps work or if my opinion even matters but I'd like to see you as a human lore dep. +1

Edited May 18, 2021 by Triogenix

[Lordnesh]

While I respect your writing abilities and interest in the lore, I have serious concerns about your OOC behavior. Which are only highlighted by your comments here..

1 hour ago, DanseMacabre said:

My intention is never to be mean-spirited or rude to anyone, so I'd like to apologize for that to anyone who might've felt that way.

I have personally witnessed at least a few instances of you saying things that could only be construed as mean-spirited and rude. And a lot (not all) of your behavior in general appears to be toxic in nature. I personally can never tell if it is just you joking around with friends, or if you're actually being toxic.

1 hour ago, DanseMacabre said:

Moving on, like I said- the way I act is connected to the fact that I am just a normal player. It isn't going to stick around as a member of staff.

I have serious reservations in regards to this comment in particular. From my reading of this, it appears as if you are knowingly acting abrasively, and intend to modify your behavior should you be granted a position of authority. Are you suddenly going to start caring about how your actions and comments affect people if you get this position? If that is the case, why don't you care now/before you were elevated to a position of authority?

Edited May 18, 2021 by Lordnesh
swapped something around to make it read better

[Kintsugi]

1 minute ago, Lordnesh said:

I have serious reservations in regards to this comment in particular. From my reading of this, it appears as if you are knowingly acting abrasively, and intend to modify your behavior should you be granted a position of authority. Are you suddenly going to start caring about how your actions and comments affect people if you get this position? If that is the case, why don't you care now/before you were elevated to a position of authority?

It isn't that I was knowingly acting abrasive - being abrasive was never the intent. I like to keep my demeanor lax and generally unfiltered, and a fair amount of sardonic humor and shitposting is going to be present. There is the implication here that I acted in a way that was going to hurt people's feelings, to hurt people's feelings, and knowingly doing so. This was never the intent, and anyone who has privately come to me to tell me they're uncomfortable will know that as soon as I recognize that there is a problem, I change my course of action. So-- to answer your question? I have always cared. What will I be changing if I become the next lore deputy? I will stop being unfiltered-- because this is a necessity for the situation, by virtue of being staff. I want to make it very clear that I care a lot about how people feel, and I never want to upset anybody if I can help it, period.

As for the toxicity remark - to be very clear, it's joking around with friends. I get that this is something that doesn't translate well over the internet, so I apologize for the confusion.

[MccRrib]

25 minutes ago, DanseMacabre said:

Should Humanity necessarily be more important than other species- or receive more attention than other species- so on and so forth? From an OOC perspective, of course not. I think every species should receive the same treatment in regards to writing.

This is a very sudden shift in attitude that, with all due respect, comes off as more than a little disingenuous. I'm having trouble believing that this is your genuine perspective given your repeated calls for the removal of Diona, and your comments during a recent discussion in the lore discord, during which you likened alien races to "supporting characters" and claimed that to give them the spotlight was to "weaken and muddle" the setting.

With that out of the way, a question.

What do you think interaction between species should look like from a lore standpoint? How much collaboration should there be between the species teams when working on new pieces of lore?

[Flpfs]

Danse is one of the persons I enjoy interacting the most in the Aurora community and I have never had a negative OOC interaction with him. His dedication to human lore is a breath of fresh air and I am frankly excited to see what he will bring to the table with his unique ideas.

+1

[Kintsugi]

1 minute ago, MccRrib said:

This is a very sudden shift in attitude that, with all due respect, comes off as more than a little disingenuous. I'm having trouble believing that this is your genuine perspective given your repeated calls for the removal of Diona, and your comments during a recent discussion in the lore discord, during which you likened alien races to "supporting characters" and claimed that to give them the spotlight was to "weaken and muddle" the setting.

The only discord where I've said to outright remove Diona was the main discord - this is only by a cursory search so this could be wrong- Every time has at least somewhat humorous, though I will not say that it is wholly a joke - I think that as they currently are, Diona need a lot of work to really contribute to the setting. "Remove Diona" is the same as me saying "Remove Dominia" in that regard. I currently feel the species is not in a good place, just as I felt Dominia was not a year and a half ago. Moving on - I will agree that the discussion you mention was questionable, in part because I didn't know how to properly voice my opinion on the matter. Having reflected on it, I will say that I went about it in the wrong way - please look at my reply to DeadLantern's message to see what I truly meant at the time, even if I butchered the actual explanation.

6 minutes ago, MccRrib said:

What do you think interaction between species should look like from a lore standpoint? How much collaboration should there be between the species teams when working on new pieces of lore?

From a lore standpoint? I think it depends on the species and, again, the sphere. I would argue that certain interactions may feel out of place - the thing that we should ask ourselves is "does this make sense?" not "How cool would this be?" As for collaboration between species teams, again, it depends on the lore in question. Some lore will not require outside input, some lore will absolutely demand it - If I was to work on the Technoconglomerate, for example, the Skrell and IPC team's input would absolutely be warranted, at least in an advisory capacity. At the same time, working on Aemaq, for example, will not really need much outside input.

[ImmortalRedshirt]

Right off the bat, I will admit that there is a clear passion put into your worldbuilding, and the commitment to detail is present in all parts on a level that would make a hard sci-fi writer intimidated. However, what detail cannot always provide is a compelling hook, something that would make a character from their stand out and be interesting to play and to interact with. While other elements of Aurora lore are not completely guilt free in this regard, planets like Visegrad play conventional sci-fi tropes rigidly straight, and I personally cannot see how a character from such a world could express a distinct behavior beyond their name and small mannerisms, like common phrases and cuisine.

Now, the question is "Red, why aren't you putting this in the Visegrad app's feedback?" The answer to this is that this is intended to set up a concern I have over possible additions and changes. Extrapolating from the writing on display here, I anticipate an adherence to sci-fi convention and the ever-nebulous standard of "realism." Human lore is very grounded in our reality, allowing it to be more relevant and to let us create more compelling characters based on its connection. At the same time, the lore often delves into unpredictable, implausible, and interesting areas, whether it's Assunzione's most peculiar behaviors, Crosk's aviation-dominated society, or Medina's phoron bulletin. These quirks create fantastic hooks for characters to be based on. I cannot have confidence that such an approach would be taken to your two major areas of interest, those being the timeline and Coalition rework. Both certainly can and should be in a better position, but if the same approach was taken to these as to, say Visegrad, it's likely that both would fall in line with the common tropes and not feel all that distinctive.

On a closing note, I will take a moment to address the closing notes of the original post. We all have a "somewhat opinionated nature", and yet, I cannot describe the following image as being "somewhat" opinionated and frankly, I feel it sets an undesirable precedent for members of our staff team, who should be held to a high standard of scrutiny and civility.

Spoiler

 

[Kintsugi]

42 minutes ago, ImmortalRedshirt said:

Right off the bat, I will admit that there is a clear passion put into your worldbuilding, and the commitment to detail is present in all parts on a level that would make a hard sci-fi writer intimidated. However, what detail cannot always provide is a compelling hook, something that would make a character from their stand out and be interesting to play and to interact with. While other elements of Aurora lore are not completely guilt free in this regard, planets like Visegrad play conventional sci-fi tropes rigidly straight, and I personally cannot see how a character from such a world could express a distinct behavior beyond their name and small mannerisms, like common phrases and cuisine.

Now, the question is "Red, why aren't you putting this in the Visegrad app's feedback?" The answer to this is that this is intended to set up a concern I have over possible additions and changes. Extrapolating from the writing on display here, I anticipate an adherence to sci-fi convention and the ever-nebulous standard of "realism." Human lore is very grounded in our reality, allowing it to be more relevant and to let us create more compelling characters based on its connection. At the same time, the lore often delves into unpredictable, implausible, and interesting areas, whether it's Assunzione's most peculiar behaviors, Crosk's aviation-dominated society, or Medina's phoron bulletin. These quirks create fantastic hooks for characters to be based on. I cannot have confidence that such an approach would be taken to your two major areas of interest, those being the timeline and Coalition rework. Both certainly can and should be in a better position, but if the same approach was taken to these as to, say Visegrad, it's likely that both would fall in line with the common tropes and not feel all that distinctive.

Could you elaborate either here or in Visegrad's canonization application page what exactly you mean by "conventional sci-fi tropes"-- alternatively, I am willing to talk about this in my DMs? Because I have no idea what you could be referring to, here. Elaboration is absolutely necessary when you make such sweeping-yet-vague claims. Regardless, Visegrad is just one example in my body of work, and I think your concerns might be abated if you took a look at the rest of what I've done.

42 minutes ago, ImmortalRedshirt said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

This is clearly an edgy joke from months ago taken out of context from an unofficial discord and I do not understand the relevancy at all to this application. I would almost argue that this is being shown in bad faith to be as damaging as possible, despite having no relation to my ability to write lore or positively interact with people, for that matter..

Edited May 18, 2021 by DanseMacabre

[stev]

I'll try and be transparent with this at the beginning, I have some level of personal beef with Danse. However, as this is largely spanning from things that are very relevant to a lore-writing staff position, I'll talk about it where it's applicable.

I don't believe Danse to be a good fit for a lore deputy for a few reasons.

Firstly, he is highly selective when receiving feedback he's asked for. I and many others have given feedback on his Visegrad lore canonisation application when asked, only to be told that negative feedback and criticisms aren't valid or worth addressing (usually just responded to with 'Okay' and moved on from). While I can understand this if the feedback is shitty and unconstructive, all negative feedback about his writing is treated this way, leading to him claiming that "no-one has given negative feedback on Visegrad" despite multiple people have given constructive criticism after being asked - much of this feedback even comes back to the same points of criticism, yet is still not addressed in any way. I think it's a fairly unambiguous red flag when all criticism that could be interpreted as negative is ignored and called 'LRP criticism', whatever that even means.

Secondly, I'm going to echo others and say that his general conduct and behaviour is, for the most part, quite negative. Half of what I see from him in lore discords and other public channels is just non-stop ragging on areas of lore he deems subpar (see constant 'remove Dominia', 'remove Diona', 'remove all aliens', etc.). While he claims that this is just jokes, it is absolutely constant and often the only thing you really see from him. There's also a trend of just replying to screenshots or logs of just anything the slightest bit funny done in-game with some variation on "I would have ahelped" or "you should be banned", which is just kinda shitty and toxic, especially when responding to absolutely harmless things. I find this especially dodgy with the context of my point on response to criticism, as he constantly "jokes" about removing everything but Sol while disregarding anything the slightest bit negative about his own projects.

Thirdly, I feel Danse's writing and general thoughts on lore involve a really excessive focus on making things 110% realistic and hyper-detailed, but without much focus given to the actual characterisation potential of lore. To bring back the Visegrad example, Visegrad suffers from an overabundance of little details and minutiae (down to detailed and presumably scientifically accurate atmospheric composition statistics), yet without much in the way of engaging character hooks, running themes, or player interest. As the deputy application and some replies seem to present this approach as a positive, I think this will prove to be an issue should Danse be appointed.

Finally, as others have more eloquently talked about, is the clear Solarian bias and nonstop OOC stanning whenever it comes up. Yes, I know Danse has claimed this is a joke, but he's never stopped doing it, either. This kinda broadly covers a lot of stuff, it's not as big a concern as the other two points, but it's still a significant portion of what they post and I'd be concerned that this bias might lead to proposed lore rewrites just making Sol bigger and cooler and stronger and everyone else weaker. 

I'll reiterate this, I have personal bias; however, I don't believe that makes my feedback wrong.
 

EDIT: I have now been blocked by Danse as a result of this post, and am now apparently harassing them by continuing to give feedback. Make of that what you will.

Edited May 18, 2021 by stev

[Lordnesh]

4 minutes ago, DanseMacabre said:

This is clearly an edgy joke taken out of context from an unofficial discord and I do not understand the relevancy at all to this application. I would almost argue that this is being shown in bad faith to be as damaging as possible, despite having no relation to my ability to write lore.

Because as myself and several others have pointed out, we have concerns over your OOC interactions, and you have provided nothing of substance to address our concerns. Other than "it was just a joke" or "it was out of conext". I'm sorry, but "I'll change my behavior if I get this position" is just not good enough. At this point, I don't know that I believe you'll change. From what I've gathered, you have had a long history of consistent behavior that has largely been negative. You don't just flip a switch like that whenever you want.

[limette]

I was in the middle of typing up something when stev posted. I can just say that I echo all the thoughts there, really - typing out three paragraphs on it myself would simply be redundant. A lot of legitimately negative behavior seems to be passed off as 'just jokes' or something by Danse, whether it's implying all gender non-conforming characters are fetish characters, advocating for the removal of lore you seem to genuinely dislike and genuinely want gone, or the aforementioned Sol stanning. It happens so consistently that its difficult to believe they're jokes at this point, rather than actual OOC beliefs. Whilst I think Danse has demonstrated an ability to write lore (albeit, in my opinion, very dry lore that I feel does not offer many hooks; refer to stev's point three) I think he shouldn't be trusted with the ability to actually shape the setting given his advocacy for removing almost everything he dislikes even whilst people are rapidly improving it among other issues.