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Everything posted by Scheveningen
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stop sweeping maintenance the second the round starts
Scheveningen replied to Butterrobber202's topic in General
I'd say give everyone maint access. Only seems fair. -
Gonna also say no to this, for reasons already stated. Diving into maintenance as any job is not a crime.
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Dismiss the ruling that roboticists cannot do RND
Scheveningen replied to Scheveningen's topic in Rejected Policy
I do not want to wait 3 fucking months for an RND rework. That is the point of this thread. -
Dismiss the ruling that roboticists cannot do RND
Scheveningen replied to Scheveningen's topic in Rejected Policy
My guide lists a certain "pre-mining" path that is pretty optimized for the moment. It puts the levels at high thresholds that allow you to theoretically make 80% of the RND equipment not counting mining resource requirements. -
Dismiss the ruling that roboticists cannot do RND
Scheveningen replied to Scheveningen's topic in Rejected Policy
I try to do RND up to that, and only to produce an RPED/machine components so that I can do basic aspects of the job. I have been told however that an exception has been made recently and that robotics can make a protolathe in their work area, just not a destructive analgeiser. -
Dismiss the ruling that roboticists cannot do RND
Scheveningen replied to Scheveningen's topic in Rejected Policy
Forgot to put this in there or it isn't clear enough, my preferred resolution to this current problem with the job is to allow robos to do RND when the science department has no scientists, with no other consolations. They should not do so when there are actual scientists who specialize in RND. Roboticists should be able to do RND as a last absolute resort but avoiding the stepping on other players' toes should obviously be considered. -
You apologized for what happened already (to me, specifically, there was a lot we both said to one another that probably should've been held back). I'm willing to forgive and forget so long as you understand how to improve from here.
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Dismiss the ruling that roboticists cannot do RND
Scheveningen replied to Scheveningen's topic in Rejected Policy
I don't really care if people are following my guide or not, that's not the point. The problem is when researchers board, state, "I know nothing about RND", and for a few rounds don't really try to learn something unfamiliar, which leads to a crucial task that affects much of research not being done. This impacts robotics who can't do anything but wait some more! In regards to resource management, optimal usage of it is required if you want to continue playing past making a single cyborg (75.3 sheets of steel worth, mechs are worth far more). Otherwise your gameplay stops and you're either required to beg to get the steel/glass from EVA, or wait another 15 minutes (best case scenario) for cargo to deliver a shipment of steel/glass. -
Dismiss the ruling that roboticists cannot do RND
Scheveningen replied to Scheveningen's topic in Rejected Policy
my math was incorrect just the cyborg torso and exoskeleton cost 90000 steel combined. that is 45 sheets of steel by itself, without the fabricators being upgraded with appropriate manipulators to reduce the production costs. The rest of the limbs cost another 66000 steel, combined with 90000 is around 15600 steel, which is 75.3 steel sheets. -
I'm breaking my forum hiatus because I was finally told by an administrator that I cannot do RND as a roboticist, or even build RND machinery in robotics to streamline the process of actually being able to play my job in building mechs, upgrading station-bound robots and other relevant tasks. I have only done this recently in situations where nobody was in RND, and exclusively in that case only. I want to establish a few principles, firstly: I've been playing both robotics and scientist (RND for the last one, particularly), and the relationship works perfectly if both parties are absolutely at the top of their game, totally understand what they're doing, to the point of both simultaneously understanding it is a mutually beneficial relationship that they contribute effort towards improving the efficiency of the both of themselves. That's a pretty big if, knowing how humans are. This relationship almost never fucking happens. It is one round out of 10 at best. The other 9 rounds is not having a scientist know what they're doing, or having a scientist who either hasn't bothered to check the wiki on how to do RND at a basic level, or someone who simply hasn't found my guide here on the forums: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vZOQyhClbj7ieIWp8_GGC1tGEpkJCN4W97k6dD5I6tA/ RND is an incredibly crucial linchpin. Either it has to be topped out to a reasonable extent, or else robotics and half the science department will not be productive. Secondly, Robotics does not have a job until the RND levels are increased to a certain standard, and the robotics fabricators/circuit printer are upgraded to optimum. There is no debating this. It takes 2x as much steel and 5x as much time to produce a single robot arm. Familiar with how time accumulates over a dilation of time on an online server? Unless a server is incredibly powerful and your connection to said server is optimal, you'll notice how the server counts seconds is not synchronized appropriately to how seconds are counted in real life. Let me make clear: IT WILL TAKE 50 SHEETS OF STEEL AND 15 MINUTES TO PRODUCE A FULL CYBORG BECAUSE THE TIMERS ATTACHED TO FABRICATORS DO NOT COUNT REAL-TIME SECONDS. That's in caps and bold text to ensure everyone reads that, understands that, and commits it to memory. Don't believe me? Boot up a private test server and try yourself without upgrading the fabricators in robotics, and do not spawn yourself any extra steel, only use what you have at the start. God forbid you try to build mechs without anyone in RND. They are far pricier than a single cyborg chassis -- and you can't even build the necessary circuits for them on your own! Do not even try to build mechs or a single cyborg chassis without the fabricator upgrades. It is needless waste of resources and time, this isn't a debate that you can just simply do your job without the fabricator upgrades, as actual gameplay will immediately disappoint you. Thirdly, roboticist is the only job in the game which cannot function without an absolute dependence on another job slot doing their job in building up and synchronizing the research servers, and then hand delivering components to the fabricators to allow robotics to be able to do bare minimum. Every other fucking job in the game operates on its own just fine without 'goodies'. Security doesn't need LWAPs, for example, they'll do just fine without them as they have a wide and varied set of tools. The janitor doesn't need supplies from RND, they can use a mop and clean everything in due time. They're not working at optimum efficiency but at least they have something to do. Engineering acts on its own all the time. Hell, they hack into atmos fairly regularly just to optimize the pipes. I won't snitch on that because they're operating on good faith and just making atmos less shit than it is at round start. That's being useful. Fourthly, to run down exactly what options you have at the start of the round if you don't want to waste resources, but assuming you cannot just get machine boards from tech storage to do RND yourself. You can: This is an admin bandaid problem that isn't even necessary to exist in the first place. If we're asking the crucial questions: 1. Why the fuck are the admins wholesale banning roboticists from trying to improve the quality of life of roboticist gameplay? Is it out of fear of 'powergaming'? - which is plainly obvious as a roboticist building combat gear with the express purpose of dunking on other people in the round. 2. Why do the admins allow it when atmospheric technicians set-up the engine when there are no engineers, but roboticists cannot fill out RND when there's no scientists? Atmos (and by extension, the entire fucking station) cannot function without power. Robotics cannot function without RND being done. If it's contextual and justified when the atmospheric techs set-up the engine, why is it so bad when robotics does it so they can fulfill their original job description? There's an easy solution for all of this. Remove the policy banning roboticists from RND, but require it that any roboticist needs to adminhelp whenever they're building RND equipment within robotics. The player of a roboticist should be spoken to and disciplined when they do not tell the administrators they're building said equipment in robotics. This gives the admins the ability to check on robotics on occasion to see if they've built anything with large impact on the round. Either that or we can remove the policy and not give a shit about what goes into circulation and allow everything to be dealt with ICly. If someone's powergaming like a shitter in robotics, they should be reported and banned regardless whether or not they make an RND hub in robotics. As a general rule it should only happen if nobody is in RND, though, it's the rule I try to instate for myself when I did it. It's fucking stupid that I cannot enjoy robotics because an admin arbitrarily told me that "I cannot do the thing" with no consideration for the context as to what my character's skills and background are. Some closing notes: I do not give a fuck if I can go play another job, I developed a method to better enjoy robotics. Every other job in the game does not operate on this stupid diceroll of who is playing in what job. If I log onto play robotics I expect to be able to do what I can within reason to improve the enjoyment and experience of my own character's job so that I, the player, can actually enjoy it, and likewise positively impact the rounds of others by contributing to their quality of life. To do that I need to do other things to improve my own job's quality of life. You cannot be charitable when you possess nothing. I enjoy robotics with the playstyle I've developed. It is fucking bullshit that I've been told that my style of playing it is somehow "against the rules" despite that I have not yet once broken the rules while playing as a roboticist, nor have I intended to even try to break the rules. Why does everyone else get to play the game with their job but I do not? It is ridiculous to expect that every case is automatically put into a category of "Good" and "bad" and somehow even when I've not said a single word to a single character in the first 20 minutes of shift start-up, what I am doing is "bad".
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It's pretty terrible nonetheless. It shouldn't exist as an option as-is.
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Preface preface: In case nobody was aware, Paranoia is Malf+Ling+Traitor. None of these antagonists are replenished as they are removed from the round. Preface: Antagonists are interesting. Each antagonist in the round in some way or another is an "actor", no different from any other player-character which by themselves is also an "actor" on the stage. An antagonist, as an actor, has a specific set of attributes that can either make or break their impactfulness in a given round. These attributes are thusly, in a manner oversimplified so I don't need to write a stupid essay again: Motivations, escalation, background. An antagonist as a result makes their impact on a round by executing certain acts that makes sense based on their motivations, they escalate with whatever means they have based on their supposed previous experiences as a character, and the antagonist's self-defined background establishes context for their in-round attitudes. The antagonists are designed to clash with the non-antagonists, ultimately, due to their differing motivations and character goals. When more than one antagonist is added into the mix, you add additional variables or actors onto the stage to influence events to play out as they would on the center stage. Since every actor in some way is interacting with another, the more actors you have on a given stage, the more nuance of who is effecting what seems to appear. It eventually becomes an intriguing spiderweb of action and reaction between the actors. And if allowed to carry on past that by adding even more actors into the fray with conflicting agendas on the stage, it becomes much more convoluted on the center stage and there may even be some individuals shouting over another, making it difficult for both the audience and actors to interpret what exactly is occurring with so many events happening at once. Premise: The above essentially describes the problem with paranoia. Because of how many antagonist actors are put into a round at once, especially considering not all of them are even working towards the same agenda (such as the case with heist, mercenary, cult, despite the small problems with those game modes), almost every paranoia round is an incomprehensible mess of antagonism based on opportunism rather than based on a goal of driving a narrative. One might say that this isn't an issue if we assume good faith and the best possible play will happen, despite the reality indicating that the general experience with the paranoia game mode is that it is a mess of a game mode that favors quantity of antagonists over quality of antagonists. Because of this general experience that happens, and the expectation that things will go badly, people have a tendency to not play at their best when they anticipate the worst will inevitably happen. "Chin up!" is not an appropriate response to this issue, as people unhappy with a specific facet of the game are not going to immediately change their tune just because they were passive aggressively told that nobody likes a Debbie Downer. I don't find that this is an appropriate way to address people's displeasure with the paranoia game mode. Argument: Personally, I think paranoia should go, from both the secret rotation and from being able to be voted in. I should establish that I do not hate paranoia (I am mildly annoyed with it at worst), nor do I have a distaste for the individuals who vote for the paranoia game mode. My opinion is, at worst, that perhaps people are a little misguided to think that they will enjoy paranoia because it is innately chaotic, but voting for a game mode for any reason isn't a bannable offense, and it isn't the problem. The fact that a bad option for the staunch majority of people's enjoyment even exists in the first place, seems to be the problem. The fact of the matter is, paranoia lacks the crucial structure that other game modes seemingly possess in greater quantities because the various antagonists meshed together make narrative sense. Most people I've spoken to enjoy intrigue more than they do enjoy paranoia. Even some people find value in crossfire over paranoia, which is surprising, since crossfire is either loved or loathed and is easily one of the most divisive subjects that is often discussed in OOC or in the discord. And yet, why remove, not rework? "REWORK, NOT REMOVE!" is a past battlecry voicing distaste for previous sentiments that wanted to remove essentially every feature from the game a certain crowd of people did not like. While this is a reactionary movement to a particularly irrational and unreasonable status quo, and thus itself not particularly all that bad, let me list the reasons why paranoia should be removed. 1. Reworking paranoia will either take too much time, end up being a band-aid solution, or it will be far more likely we'll be back discussing this topic on the board than it is that the main detractors of paranoia will be happy with a hypothetical paranoia rework. 2. Paranoia is a damn mess, for the most part, filled with antagonist combinations that are innately designed to be particularly selfish or pursuing their own individual goals at the same time, and generally are not required or expected to work towards a mutual arrangement. Not even the lings. You can backstab lings if you'd so like. From a singular character's perspective, however, it is impossible to decipher what is going on, and due to this easily established confusion stacking the round in the paranoia antags' favor, people can die for simply not understanding what is going on. 3. On the flip side, when the paranoia antagonists do team up, it ends up being traitors and changelings with a malf abusing machine overload on their side. Given the nature of how oppressive all three of those forces are at once, even if this occurrence is incredibly unlikely and would only happen once in a blue moon, it would inevitably lead to an incredibly unenjoyable experience for anyone other than the lings, traitors and the rogue station synthetics themselves. 4. As is the case with all voted game modes that are not secret or extended, there is often a very subtle and unpunishable degree of metagaming and preparation that happens during voted paranoia. This is not a paranoia-centric issue, but rather an issue with vote results and votes for game modes not being obfuscated in general. Anyway, that's my opinion. I don't find that paranoia is particularly the most problematic issue, but on the occasion where it is voted, I find myself particularly unmotivated to play a round of Space Station 13 on this server, when I would rather like to be able to play when I find time for it. I just don't think everyone's round must be guaranteed to be nothing other than suffering and having to deal with an oppressive amount of antagonists ripping the station in half due to the sheer saturation of malicious actors involved. Perhaps other people feel the same? Let me know what you think.
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[Accepted] Snoopy11 - Command Whitelist
Scheveningen replied to Snoopy11's topic in Whitelist Applications Archives
You're doing really good so far. One of the few goodsec regulars that exists, and you're been doing quite well as command in general. -
time to be a pessimist. No offense to Cactus' hard work on this or anything, but a fair deal of things are missing just from the two departments I've played so far. The nature of a compact map makes it so that antagonists are easily identified and worse yet, pincered incredibly easy due to the fact that the mass of people are more concentrated in the lessened space. Command cannot be accessed by antagonists without instantly alerting the entire crew since the innards of command are essentially hugging the AI core and the main halls. While understandable that the updated Exodus map doesn't have as much time investment into refining it as the current Aurora map has, the great winding size of the original Aurora map combined with difficulty of navigating the terrain that is maintenance makes it hard for antags to exit through but even harder for anyone else to follow them, which is technically a massive advantage for antagonists. Were we back in ye old days when the population was low enough that the map balance didn't matter as much, this would be fine. We float a large player count during the majority of the day, however, and Exodus isn't big enough to support the issues that afflict the station crew and antagonists.
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"Completely unprovoked"? I don't think you really understand the gravity of the situation. Nobody earns a permaban for mistakes. Permabanned people eat permabans for personal failures in conduct and general refusals to improve or integrate with the community on a basis of good faith. Failure is defined as refusing to correct mistakes, by the way. Regarding situation #1. You were the asshole in that situation. You raged for getting killed in a video game. That's a gamer moment right there. Regarding situation #2. You were the asshole in that situation. You raged at someone in LOOC because of game events that were happening to another player you knew. Yet another gamer moment right there. Here's some advice. After reading my reply, here's what you should do. Log out of this forum account (correct, don't even reply further, I assure you that isn't good for you), go try another RP server under a different ckey. Behave better on that ckey for a month or so, with the objective of not winding yourself up over things and not repeating the same pitfalls that you fell into recently with this community. If you manage to not create issues on another server, get someone to rep you for a ban appeal when you come back here after the month's run out. Best thing you can do in this situation if you care at all about this community and want to come back. You need to prove you care in such a way that is not destructive or ruthless towards other people just wanting to play a video game without the awful attitudes.
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Rescinding complaint. Issue was resolved.
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BYOND Key: Scheveningen Staff BYOND Key: Simon_the_miner Game ID: b3j-dClv Reason for complaint: To dispute the following warning, have said warning removed, and have the situation that surmised during the round determined as an IC issue: Evidence/logs/etc: Ticket logs: I was not able to obtain screenshots of the textport to prove security threw the flashbang first during the Mexican standoff. Additional remarks: Tl;dr, I was given a BS warning over something that escalated in IC. While the decisions I made were questionable (the same can be said of many characters that round), I do not believe they were roleplay breaking or rule-breaking. The death of the RD was not personal nor initially intended, but I held the ability to kill another character should the worst-case scenario have happened. It did happen, and a mod gave me immense amount of shit over it while failing to understand the context of the situation, why I acted the way I did, et cetera. I do not believe I did anything objectively wrong from a roleplay/gameplay standpoint. I did not kill the RD for no reason. The RD died as a means of intentional collateral if security were to act during the Mexican standoff that was not a peaceful action. At worst, the culmination of the events happening was a result of a falling out of trusts on both side of the conflict, but consequences arose from the fight that happened. I enacted those consequences intentionally because my character felt betrayed in the instance where the flashbang was thrown in, and they immediately registered security was preparing means to breach into our area of the hallway and then flood in to fight us. I'm sorry to @CommanderXor for killing them in such a fashion, but it was a call I made in a tense situation and it seemed like the best call at the time to put security into a worse off position.
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why: I don't really know. I've passed the RND guide around rather discretely, gathering a small amount of feedback and ultimately I came up with the most optimal path to top off the RND levels to ensure that the RND/robotics experience can be fully realized and experience during a round without needing an extremely experienced regular to have to play a round. I will admit that at this point, having done it countless amounts of times, it's pretty tedious now, and it really sucks to have people in RND who are inexperienced and stuck at major stages of the round's flow. I do not know if this will make things better. I hope it does. I also hope I am not responsible for a new generation of validhunting powergamers. If it does change things, I hope it will inevitably be for the better and not for worse. On the other hand I guess if someone is particularly stupid and malicious they'll get banned faster. Anyway: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vZOQyhClbj7ieIWp8_GGC1tGEpkJCN4W97k6dD5I6tA/edit?usp=sharing Enjoy yourself responsibly. Please don't do anything that'll make me admit that this was a mistake in the future.
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cool af merge now
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https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/7003 Removed the damage amplification to melee weapons while wearing force gloves. Force gloves are now 5 TC. You can still combo force gloves with martial arts to wreck people. Enjoy.
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Remove it. Round-ending mechanic on low-pop and a mild annoyance when there are surgeons. Doesn't actually impact the larger round apart from a few characters who will continue what they were doing anyway.
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The shooting aspect while moving isn't possible or useful anymore, as shooting while in movement will instantly put all of your shots off target. Likewise. If someone with a gun is playing into environments of tight chokes with easy areas to be dead-ended into, or rather areas to which they have far less advantages than a person with a melee weapon and a "rush the gun wielder" mentality, is that person with the gun playing the game smart or are they the stupid one in that situation? Force gloves exemplify the noobkiller playstyle by killing bad players even easier and being able to start reaching into occasionally wounding a good one. Is that something that should stay in the game? I don't really think so.