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DronzTheWolf

Obligatory Sec Gun Replacement Thread

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My motive is simple: Make Sec more Sci-Fi


While the .45 rubbers have been around for a while, I want Sec to be more futuristic. and give them a lowkey buff


So replace the .45 with the e-pistol. It'd allow them to take out carp without having to get the carbines and be less lethal than the .45 in takedowns, as well as have the capacity for lethal fire if an antag is KoS.

We can keep .45s in the armory if Sec wants them back, or maybe even have it so you can choose which you want through the Warden, and have both in the Armory.

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I'd say replace with an upgraded Epistol - Epistol MKII "Tachyon" known as "Tay" (pass me your Tay). It's a new model developed by NT that utilizes phoron crystals in its construction. Increases the charge and maybe the damage/stun depending on people's appetite for that.


Thoughts?

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I'd say replace with an upgraded Epistol - Epistol MKII "Tachyon" known as "Tay" (pass me your Tay). It's a new model developed by NT that utilizes phoron crystals in its construction. Increases the charge and maybe the damage/stun depending on people's appetite for that.


Thoughts?

 

This would be a nice idea for the E-Pistol buff thread I made in tandem for this.

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=11464

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I genuinely think that ammo based weapons are fine. It allows the Warden to control whether or not security can use lethals or not.

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Warden to control whether or not security can use lethals or not.

 

That implies Security won't just ask Cargo to hack the autolathe and give them lethals to work around a stubborn non-lethal warden.

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Cargo isn't just going to do that, most of the time. Don't want to get in trouble, after all.


Anyway I like the idea but Burger brings up a good point. What if the warden was required to "unlock" the gun's lethal mode? Keeps that sci-fi vibe with the warden retaining his agency over security's level of force.

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Cargo isn't just going to do that, most of the time. Don't want to get in trouble, after all.

 

Cargo regularly does this. I've seen it, and I've done it myself. Cargo doesn't care about getting in trouble.

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Support the idea of buffing the E-pistol, not big on handing it to officers. Many would jump straight to lethal. Not a fan of the Warden lethal-lock as a fix either. Tend to find a lotta rounds where antags play warden (without a HoS) to nerf Sec. Lethal-lock would only extend that.


Not opposed to standard issue e-pistol as a whole, just how it affects lethality.

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Not a fan of giving officers options to lethals round-start. Remember that officers are not whitelisted. This would risk ruining more rounds for antags than it would help.

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I like the idea of the e-pistol with lockout option. I just feel it needs a few tweaks. I think the warden's office, the HoS' office, and the captain's office should have a lethal lockdown override button corresponding to their IDs. I also feel like a swipe of a command ID at the authentication device should override the lockout for 10 minutes. 2 command ID swipes should unlock it indefinitely until the threat level is lowered, like the cyborg crisis override.


This way, both a fully staffed and a skeleton crew have options on ways to respond to lethal situations.


(Also, traitor sec emagging their pistol overrides the lockout because duh)

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Why don't we give this like a week-long 'trial period'? If major issues arise during the trial period then maybe it isn't the best, but, if security can prove that they are capable enough to be trusted with a lethal sidearm at round start then perhaps we could consider adding it full time.


That's just my two cents though, I'm currently on the fence with this idea, I'd like it, but I'm not sure if the current security team(s) can handle it, hence the suggestion of a 'trial period'.

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It's true that this is going to be a problem. Imagine having the ammount of greytiders that we have on the security team daily, or people that don't know the rules properly, get free acess to a lethal weapon. I think that there should be, like Trazz said, kind of an authentication device on the HoS, Warden, and Captain's office that allows some hybrid gun that security should have, that's like an e-pistol (maybe the one you posted earlier, with a buff of 8 shots?) that has the lethal mode locked away until needed. It would also be nice that, on code red, this lock would automatically be lifted. On code blue, one device would need to be activated, and on code green, two (though it would suck when it's either deadhour, or a skeleton crew.)

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You can achieve the same result with what we do currently. Don't hand out the lethal guns until it's code blue or red since the captain/HOS/warden have access to hand out guns in certain situations.


You're just adding more convoluted processes.

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I'm not partial to handing out a weapon that is capable of lethal force from the getgo? I am how ever open to the idea of having 4 of these pistols in the armory for handout. Though even then, I'm not sure of the balance. Would it be too much?

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.45 rubber is sufficient and each officer gets a solid 14 shots. That's a lot of wiggle room for antags on Green, and when there's no Warden, HoS or AI around- while not exactly so little that Officers are screwed. Trust me, it's like 4 hits and most enemies, save the Hardsuited and non-humanoid, will go down easily. Giving officers the option to lethal is also bad for training them. You give them the option to lethal and they'll expect it, always. It's good to beat into our, the officers', little brains that the lethals are locked off for a reason- and to teach them to be resourceful.

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Please not round start lethals. The lockout feature makes it much better but I'm not sure why RD/CMO/CE/HoP should be able to override that (even temporarily).

Automatically unlocking at code red, sure.

HoS, Warden and Captain manually overriding, sure.

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I like the lockout option with auto unlock at red and HoS or Cap unlocking before. Imo it shouldn't be a retcon of gear but a progression into a more advanced form of gear.

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Oh, I didn't expect people to jump on that idea.


Traz makes a neat point. It gives traitors more options, too, such as hacking/emagging the pistols to have them unlocked, or using the warden's ID/tool/console/whatever to lock them permanently if sec's being a pain. And since the thread idea is basically to make things sci-fi, I think it fits well. People have already brought up a lot of good points on why Sec should NOT have lethals from the get-go (And why they currently don't, unless I guess cargo is that willing to hack a lathe on request for some reason). IMO the option to unlock should go to those who already have authority on controlling level of force: HoS, Warden, and Captain.


Anyway, it's not my intention to derail the thread by talking about lockouts. I still love the idea of moving away from projectiles for the setting. But no, security should not have a lethal option from the start.


Gettin' some Psycho-Pass vibes from this tbh.

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People are complaining that security can abuse it because they are not whitelisted. Antag roles are not whitelisted either. Appropriate punishment is necessary and warranted but energy pistols for security whether they be in the armory or in the sec officer locker seems like a reasonable and fair proposal for at least a trial period.


If an individual blasts someone with an energy pistol then they should be hit with a warning or what not. It's no different from an antag ninja dicing the first person they see for no reason.

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Pushing for a predominantly energy weapons oriented security team is going to push antags towards EMP abuse. Currently, after being EMPed, an Officer's only recourse is the .45 rubbers and a swift retreat, some tear gas if they're lucky enough to not be up against a fella in a gas mask.


We got the .45's largely because of this, there's no reason to nab em back now that they're coded in, it's just busy work for no real reason.


: )


Me me not think this idea so good, boss.


Now, if you wanted to add something to the armory, why not refine and issue a phoron pistol variant that NT's cleared for use as a sidearm? Start rustling some feathers with NT's detractors. Could be entertaining.

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This was discussed heavily by the ISD Discord and most of the active sec players _really_ dont want this.

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This was discussed heavily by the ISD Discord and most of the active sec players _really_ dont want this.

 

They need to post on the forums with their feedback.

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I would like this in the Armoury, with our current .45's being of sufficient knockdown caliber right now. It allows a sense of trust- If a Head of Security trusts a person, they might hand them these guns with lethal capabilities.

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