A Comfort System

[BurgerBB]

Overview:

There are a lot of things present in the game that are only balanced by willingful limitation. An example of this is hardsuit use: You can wear a hardsuit all shift and no really give a fuck about it despite it being a hot, sweaty, and bulk piece of armor. Junkfood also comes to mind where players eat garbage and don't care about the stale, over-saturated flavor. Players also sometimes wear internals 24/7, and something like that is quite uncomfortable. Players don't report this sort of behavior as they don't know how long someone has been in a hardsuit or eating junkfood, so I suggest a comfort system that every humantype mob has. You gain comfort levels when doing comforting things, such as sitting on a chair, eating good food, and you lose comfort levels when doing uncomfortable things such as being in a hardsuit for a long period of time, using internals for a long period of time,, eating junkfood, overeating, or being injured. A comfortable person will have a higher pain tolerance. An uncomfortable person will have a lower pain tolerance. If you wear a hardsuit for 1 hour and eat nothing but junkfood and breath through a mask, the goal is that it will take 25% less pain damage to put you into paincrit.

Implementation:

Every player will start out with a comfort level of 100. 100 means normal comfort. Anything less than 0 means that the person is uncomfortable to the point where it starts to affect their pain tolerance, anything above 0 means that there is no pain effect. Comfort can be at most 200, and at least -100. Everything that adds or removes comfort will be based on this. Each negative comfort level means 0.25% less pain tolerance. A comfort level of -100 means your pain tolerance will be 25% less than normal.

This whole system will come in updates so it's easier for players to adapt. At first, only food will adjust comfort levels at first, then other things will be implemented. Perhaps each species will earn less or more comfort levels when doing things. For example, Njarir’Akhran Tajara are more sensitive to comfort level changes, while Vaurca are less sensitive to comfort changes.

Balance

Additional things may need to be balanced. Engineers, Security, and Miners will likely inherently have less of a comfort malus from wearing hardsuits. Mercs will also likely have less of a comfort malus as they are mercenaries who care little for comfort.

Depth

I believe that this feature will add more depth to the game. Security can willingly feed prisoners bad food and provide them with terrible cells with a lack of seating so it's easier, however crueler, to control escapees. The crew can demand more recreational areas/time if they feel they have low comfort levels due to being overworked. Perhaps heads of staff will also have a sensitivity to comfort changes.

[LanceLynxx]

yeeeeeees please +1

I love these little immersive mechanically-enforced RP. This is good. And would make people stop using hardsuits, gasmasks, and rigs 24/7

Only one thing, I wouldn't tie "comfort" to "classes". I'd much more rather have it tied to a stat and skill system.

I know it's a whole other 9 yards, but it's just my 50 cents.

[AmoryBlaine]

I think Mercs should be equal to Security. Nothing worse than Mercs who like to stay outside or in vented areas. It limits the types of characters that can interact with them.

[BurgerBB]

I think Mercs should be equal to Security. Nothing worse than Mercs who like to stay outside or in vented areas. It limits the types of characters that can interact with them.

 

Since it's a huge balance related thing there will likely be a community poll done on how this affects mercs/security. I'm quite indifferent to other, because on one hand it encourages the mercs to have on-station interaction, on the other it may make it easier for security to take them down.

[duskofdawn]

-1. For a couple reasons.

1.) I think the food playing into it is effectively moot because on low population rounds, it means that everyone's going to be uncomfortable, probably no matter what.

2.) If it's an equal system and you can get it by either eating food OR sitting in a chair, then that's pointless as well, because a lot of people sit in a chair when they're not busy, it's like second nature.

3.) If people don't care about the speed debuff of hardsuits, they're likely not going to care about pain tolerance.

4.) On low population servers when the sole doctor hasn't had a break all shift, is it really necessary to decrease their pain tolerance?

5.) What's the point of it anyway if it's just paincrit? The people who do these things generally do not care if they're going to be in pain.

[Zundy]

It would reduce your capacity to sprint if we do this right? I'm all for this addition.

[Coalf]

But why?

I mean why the stat-losses? The cigarette implementation of text holding your hand and telling you what your character feels was receive well enough why not just continue with that?

"My legs are tired"

"I'm hungry"

"This food tasted terrible"

"It's too spicy"

"This chair is uncomfortable"

"I hurt myself today to see if I still feel"

Putting flat stats and numbers on such mundane actions reduces characters from characters and turns them into a generic basis/stereotype.

A huge part of playing pretend is going along with what is happening.

This won't really ADD options, it'll just detract options from the people who already loved to do these things as they'll be streamlined into linear paths and force the people who never broke the rules but didn't care about comfort that much into having to "powergame" comfort.

Also consider antags, wizard, ninja, mercenaries, raiders, I mean will we see mercenaries having hostage situations with police officers in comfy chairs?

I don't mind the idea of nudging people in what you consider the right direction, however forcing people in the right direction is an issue in my book.

Just like we don't force tajara to take off their clothes when heat messages start popping, we leave it up to the players to decide how comfortable their character is.

To use the cigs again, do consider they DO cause organ damage but people STILL smoke them even if they provide no benefit outside of the messages.

To re-iterate, I am not against nudging people in the right direction. I am against forcing people to take a path you think is correct.

Because if we're on this, we might aswell force people to break their fingers when they try to make a spear-head by bending iron with their bare hands.

[Jakers457]

I know of a similar system on a certain Neofeudal server. They call them moodlets, which mainly revolves around how upset the character gets if certain criteria aren't met. Like addictions, being around people, being ill or in pain, or hungry and thirsty etc. I believe it has effects on stamina and the like, it adds a level of challenge to the game and helps to fuel an economy system without persistence.

It can work, but only if can be slotted perfectly into the current system or have an entire interlocking system built around comfort, needs and health. Doing it in updates might be messy, plus I can see the system upsetting people who tend forego things like eating for chairRP or would rather not have a mechanical challenge on top of their desired character development or indulgence.

[Skull132]

It can work, but only if can be slotted perfectly into the current system or have an entire interlocking system built around comfort, needs and health. Doing it in updates might be messy, plus I can see the system upsetting people who tend forego things like eating for chairRP or would rather not have a mechanical challenge on top of their desired character development or indulgence.

 

I'm inclined to agree with this. We do not have an interlocking system of buffs and debuffs to slot this into. And like has been proven with attempting to appropriate organ damage for things like this, doing it in bits does not work out. Updating all of the status indicator systems (hunger, fatigue, comfort, mental stability(?)) to run off of a centralized system would make things more concise. It would also allow for things like character perks and deperks later down the road, which should address the issue of people wanting to customize their characters and their like or dislike of certain things.

[Zaeperry99]

I'm going to go ahead and give this a -1, because it feels less like a mechanic meant to encourage roleplay and more like one more thing turning the server into a really weird game of The Sims (Much like 'debuffs' for junk food). The changes to food make this an easy system to powergame as well as punishing low-pop players who may not have a chef AND have to run around constantly as they're the only ones in their department. The extended hardsuit usage is only really a concern for miners/engineers, people who really don't need to worry about their pain threshold.

I think Coalf said it better than I can hope to in that this is another mechanic turning player characters into video game characters instead of roleplay characters, and a mechanic like this would deter roleplay significantly more than it would help it.

[BurgerBB]

I'm inclined to disagree with all the feedback in this thread regarding that this is bad for roleplay. I think that this is excellent for roleplay and adds depth to the server. Just because it adds a stat to track doesn't mean that the game will turn into a different game.

It gives me depression that a lot of people have this mindset where introducing role playing game elements in a roleplaying game is turning it into a not roleplaying game.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

OP concept is good. I previously suggested that prolonged hardsuit wearing caused you to slowly develop a rash of increasing severity, until it maxed at a slight speed debuff and constant messages about irritation.

A needs system is not contrary to roleplay. "Comfort" is something present in any sort of life simulation. Rimworld, every single Sims game, dwarf fortress - and the need to seek out comfort is part of the simulation that makes it more realistic.

Mechanics are roleplay.

[Zaeperry99]

Comparing Sims games, Rimworld, and Dwarf Fortress to a high roleplay server on SS13 is not helping. There's a clear-cut difference between them.

Those are roleplaying games. Aurora, and other high-roleplay servers are more of a roleplay platform. It may sound dumb and 'artsy', but there's a pretty notable difference. Try comparing an RPG like WoW or Rimworld to SS13, and the base premise is massively different. Those games are about overcoming challenges. The needs system is there to add a challenge. The server shouldn't be about being 'Challenged' in any way other than to develop an interesting character and enjoy playing as them, as well as making sure other people enjoy having them around.

Mechanics are not roleplay, roleplay is roleplay. This is why some of the best roleplaying platforms of all time (I.e Dungeons and Dragons) give so much power to a gamemaster on what happens. Because adding things as firm, set mechanics force focus away from the roleplay and onto nourishing your 10 stat bars like some god-awful early access indie survival game. Adding mechanics to force roleplay will not force roleplay; It will attract people who can game / work around the mechanics to get an advantage, and push away people who are actually competent roleplayers without an automated system slapping them on the wrist for eating a candy bar. Again, Coalf put this better than I could:

Putting flat stats and numbers on such mundane actions reduces characters from characters and turns them into a generic basis/stereotype.

A huge part of playing pretend is going along with what is happening.

This won't really ADD options, it'll just detract options from the people who already loved to do these things as they'll be streamlined into linear paths and force the people who never broke the rules but didn't care about comfort that much into having to "powergame" comfort.

[Snakebittenn]

The server is never really below like 20 players, and we shouldn't have to balance around rounds where there's only 10 people.

[Zaeperry99]

The server is never really below like 20 players, and we shouldn't have to balance around rounds where there's only 10 people.

 

I don't really want to go into an in-depth argument about this, as it'd be a bit thread-hijacky. As such, I'll just note that I play more shifts where the kitchen isn't productive than shifts where it is (My common playtime being 8 PM - 4 AM (CDT)) and point out that that was only one - and I'd even go as far as to say the smallest - of several points leveled against this being a mechanic.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

The server is never really below like 20 players, and we shouldn't have to balance around rounds where there's only 10 people.

 

I don't really want to go into an in-depth argument about this, as it'd be a bit thread-hijacky. As such, I'll just note that I play more shifts where the kitchen isn't productive than shifts where it is (My common playtime being 8 PM - 4 AM (CDT)) and point out that that was only one - and I'd even go as far as to say the smallest - of several points leveled against this being a mechanic.

 

How would you feel about persistent flavor messages about how uncomfortable you are, if no mechanical punishment?

[Zaeperry99]

How would you feel about persistent flavor messages about how uncomfortable you are, if no mechanical punishment?

I think that's a phenomenal idea, actually! Not only does it encourage roleplay in a way that doesn't affect people who genuinely are good roleplayers, but it means that people who never take off their hardsuits are more liable for their powergaming rather than just 'i didn't know hardsuits were uncomfortable'. I would without a doubt support that implementation.

[AmoryBlaine]

The server is never really below like 20 players, and we shouldn't have to balance around rounds where there's only 10 people.

 

I don't really want to go into an in-depth argument about this, as it'd be a bit thread-hijacky. As such, I'll just note that I play more shifts where the kitchen isn't productive than shifts where it is (My common playtime being 8 PM - 4 AM (CDT)) and point out that that was only one - and I'd even go as far as to say the smallest - of several points leveled against this being a mechanic.

 

How would you feel about persistent flavor messages about how uncomfortable you are, if no mechanical punishment?

 

Have it work similar to bomb suits then? Could just re-use that.

[Scheveningen]

The server is never really below like 20 players, and we shouldn't have to balance around rounds where there's only 10 people.

 

I don't really want to go into an in-depth argument about this, as it'd be a bit thread-hijacky. As such, I'll just note that I play more shifts where the kitchen isn't productive than shifts where it is (My common playtime being 8 PM - 4 AM (CDT)) and point out that that was only one - and I'd even go as far as to say the smallest - of several points leveled against this being a mechanic.

 

How would you feel about persistent flavor messages about how uncomfortable you are, if no mechanical punishment?

 

It's a great idea.

Issue is with hardsuits and voidsuits, if you stay in them for too long, your character starts to overheat and it has really nasty consequences if you get way too hot. So this is kinda already supported by mechanics but it's not really much of an issue since people pay attention to their temperature gauge and take off the suits after awhile.

So basically they mechanically work around it so that they don't have to face the consequences of it. Which is roleplay, I guess?

My legs are OK

[Zaeperry99]

Issue is with hardsuits and voidsuits, if you stay in them for too long, your character starts to overheat and it has really nasty consequences if you get way too hot. So this is kinda already supported by mechanics but it's not really much of an issue since people pay attention to their temperature gauge and take off the suits after awhile.

So basically they mechanically work around it so that they don't have to face the consequences of it. Which is roleplay, I guess?

This isn't entirely relevant to the topic at hand, but I've only ever seen my temperature bar go up while I'm in a hardsuit if the hardsuit had a burn on it (e.x after it got hit by an emitter). Though I only ever wear Engineer hard suits, so I'm not totally sure.

[DronzTheWolf]

This isn't entirely relevant to the topic at hand, but I've only ever seen my temperature bar go up while I'm in a hardsuit if the hardsuit had a burn on it (e.x after it got hit by an emitter). Though I only ever wear Engineer hard suits, so I'm not totally sure.

 

The Engineer suits aren't hardsuits, unless you mean the CE Hardsuit.

Though I would like a mechanical disadvantage to wearing Hardsuits and Voidsuits other than just 'uncomfortable' messages, being a mining main. The messages of discomfort would be very annoying for Tajara players because you'd have those on top of the overheating messages.

[BurgerBB]

The planned system is that you will only get a comfort notification if there has been a drastic change in comfort, or if you use a verb that checks your comfort.

[Pratepresidenten]

My two cents on the matter regarding rigsuit debuffs. There shouldnt be any disadvantages to it other than the want to breathe "Normal" air after some time. It has a setup time for a reason, it molds perfectly around your body for maximum mobility and comfort. Its meant to be used over long periods of time.

Its a piece of machinery with powered hydraulics and auxiliary systems to make life easier, unlike a voidsuit where its all you, all the time.

[Doxxmedearly]

Yes, I'm with Prate. I assumed Hardsuits to be rather comfortable for what they are, whereas voidsuits are super uncomfy, bulky, heavy...

[BurgerBB]

I've learned that hardsuits =/= voidsuits.

Voidsuits will be getting comfort debuffs since they are one size fits all, rigsuits are designed to be form fitting and will receive a very minor comfort malus.