Offworlders Announcement/Feedback thread

[Snakebittenn]

You're incorrectly viewing mechanics as a bottle that we fill.

[Ornias]

3 minutes ago, ParadoxSpace said:

You're incorrectly viewing mechanics as a bottle that we fill.

You've got to elaborate, I don't understand

[Snakebittenn]

You're viewing mechanics as a finite container that if we have too much, it spills over and it's gg. Sure, people can roleplay spacers. People can roleplay needing implants. But it doesn't hurt anyone to include mechanics for it that would differentiate them from humans.

[Skull132]

In a sense, Paradox, they are. There is a finite amount of information that can be presented and tracked properly at all times. this is why lore consolidation and reinforcement, in my opinion, should be preferred over spanning additions.

With that being said, however, human sub species would not necessarily be bloat. In fact, if there is any species that would benefit from more subspecies, it would arguably be the humans. And specifically in a fashion similar to how the Tajarans got their sub species: with factional undertones. I would not at all mind if the major factions were represented by different sub species with minor quirks or differences, since it would make them way easier to tell apart and represent ingame than they currently are. It would also make the choice of faction seem more appealing and involved, which might encourage more players to partake in that aspect of the lore.

[Ornias]

3 minutes ago, ParadoxSpace said:

You're viewing mechanics as a finite container that if we have too much, it spills over and it's gg. Sure, people can roleplay spacers. People can roleplay needing implants. But it doesn't hurt anyone to include mechanics for it that would differentiate them from humans.

Yes, I do think that having too many mechanics will hurt the game if those mechanics don't have a reason to be there.

It creates a very strict mold of what an offworlder is mechanically, without having strong enough grounds for their existence. The genetic thing doesn't make tonnes of sense, but can be excused - I just don't see what roleplay opportunities adding mechanical support for this will provide. It will also create a really staunch divide with this kind of mechanical bifurcating, where characters will be either 'a normal human' or 'a spacer human'. In exchange for creating more spacer characters (which, I do not know if this is a desirable result, which I'll touch on in a minute), and having a bit more mechanical support for them, it will be harder to individually nuance your characters.

I think that making something mechanically 'special' without it being vitally important detracts from peoples attempts to justify and build upon the characters they're creating. Currently, anyone who creates a spacer character has to put in a bit of work to it, and create something truly individual and their own. By adding an option for it, all someone has to do is click the button and say they're a Spacer. I don't say that in an attempt to oversimplify character creation, but I don't think this will improve characters, or help create better ones - quite the opposite.

Are all frontiersman offworlders? Most? Half? What reason do they have to come to Tau Ceti if it'd create so many issues for them? I understand that individuals might, but not a high enough amount to justify the number we'd almost undoubtedly see if they were unwhitelisted. I want to see more characters touching on interesting concepts from our lore, but the way to go about that isn't throwing in more mechanics for it. That doesn't generate anything but artificial engagement, where we see more surface-level characters representing parts of the lore without really exploring it.

I have no doubt Sleepy's character will be wonderful and stellar. She's great at making characters. But she can already make whatever character she wants to make within the human subfactions without having to be backed up by a RIGsuit.

[Coalf]

On Matters of "Bloat"
Hello, I worked on large part of the lore with Kyres and co-oped space-humans, whatever the name is now that people are upset over it, so I'll answer a few questions.
But first I'd like to ask what "Bloat" means as it has been thrown quite a lot without any actual definition.

Code bloat? Well no, Grav-Adapted-Humans, Shadowpeople, and Resomi are all spawnable already and have their own mechanics so I'd guess that is incorrect, after all, we're adding a hardsuit and changing properties of a species that was already there. Although it is true that people should give more thought before they vote or code new things to implement.

Lore bloat? Frankly, I partially agree that the spacers shouldn't have been propped up as a big faction and I raised my concern over it with Kyres and asked at the beginning of the project when I began writing the lore for them.

Character bloat? Well judging by the people here everyone is a big boy pant veteran and I think that harms the view of how people approach the server. Sure it "Doesn't have to be" mechanical, but as Ornias said:
" But she can already make whatever character she wants to make within the human subfactions without having to be backed up by a RIGsuit. "
Yep and plenty of people can't because they are not as good as Sleepy. I live in a world of idealism and in that world, mechanics serve to boost Roleplaying capabilities, both of those experienced and those inexperienced. I believe spacers are a door for people who have not even considered the possibility of being a weird genetic freak, which leads to my second topic.

On Matters of "There Be Elves In Them Hills"

Nein would be incorrect, the person was originally not scorned over having "elf ears", but over the fact, they claimed to be a literal elf. I was there during the debate.

On Matters of "Off-Worlders"

My idea was to call them Spacies so I could tell them to get off of my station, reee. But alas this is why we have feedback threads and this is one of those, so I implore all upon this thread to help us make a new name. Since we as a team had multiple picks and off-worlders was chosen as the easiest to pick-up for players, however, if they don't like it, it can always be changed to something better.
I believe the other suggestions were: Spacers (But I know of characters who call themselves spacers too so that cannot be done), Spacies, Galactons, Low-gravs, Gravoids, Gravy bois,

Edited February 20, 2019 by Coalf

[Coalf]

Oh! And a thing I forgot.

You don't have to be the "species spacer" to be a "spacer".
These are genetically changed humans, you could call them a genetic offshoot similar to how a dog is not a wolf. You can just as easily make a spacer that isn't from the species, it simply means he isn't the "5th generation no-grav human", he simply is the first generation or his parents never lived in no grav for such prolonged periods of time.
Just like people can make an IPC and say they're from Bishop without using the Bishop sub-type.

[Coalf]

Third addendum, yaaay!

Technically both Spacers and Off-worlders is incorrect as these people CAN be from very low-grav planets, moons, and asteroids.

[Zundy]

All good but I don't like the name "off worlder." Why not spacer? 

[Bsmiffy78]

I have faith the lore team can work out the kinks and present this in a way that can present new interesting roleplaying opportunities.

As for spacers/offworlders/spacey-bois/spaghetti-bone-bois carrying some sort of genetic trait down from their relatives who are also spacers/offworlders/spacey-bois/spaghetti-bone-bois I would say that this is a bit flawed.

You are a spacers/offworlders/spacey-bois/spaghetti-bone-bois because you were born in or subjected to low-grav environments for an extended period of time.

A plausible explanation, I would say would be due to the lack of grav-gens one would expect in frontier space only 45 years after their invention. Such a complex thing would not be widespread so quickly, and even if it could be mass produced and mass-drivered out to frontier space in the billions, are you also sending people to maintain them? Not to mention the power associated with keeping the device online, which may not be possible to provide for some ships/stations, and given the brutal nature of the frontier I would say that most (who are probably already used to suffering from low-grav) would just opt not to waste the resources on it.

peep: my 69th post

Edited February 20, 2019 by Bsmiffy78

[Coalf]

16 minutes ago, Zundy said:

All good but I don't like the name "off worlder." Why not spacer? 

All the issues that come with Off-Worlders come with Spacers.
1) Characters already call themselves spacers.
2) They're not just in space, they're from low-grav planets.
3) Spacers is technically everyone who lives in space.

[Bsmiffy78]

What about Human Anti-Gravers? Like anti-vaxxers, but less dumb, and they don't like gravity.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Bsmiffy78

[Zundy]

Space born human probs would be best. They shouldn't be calling themselves anything special really as they'll be from pre-existing civilisations.

[stev]

1 hour ago, Zundy said:

Space born human probs would be best. They shouldn't be calling themselves anything special really as they'll be from pre-existing civilisations.

Space-born could definitely work. It's certainly more descriptive and specific 

[Carver]

9 hours ago, LordFowl said:

Democracy was god's mistake.

What is this inequality where the men have no nips or asses?

[Carver]

wew double post

Edited February 20, 2019 by Carver

[Scheveningen]

Least they still have 1 pixel micropeens.

42 minutes ago, stev said:

Space-born could definitely work. It's certainly more descriptive and specific 

in their tongue, he is space-kiin, SPACE-BORN

[Itanimulli]

Other species wouldn't have it because taj and unathi literally just (relatively speaking) got to space, and skrell just likely wouldn't care to have an entire contingent of them become nomads. Skrell are way more social than humans.

[Itanimulli]

But yeah I want this. More important, I want humans with gosh dang augments, but that's not the point of this thread.

It's also neat to see a species with definitive equipment.

[MattAtlas]

skeleton men big good

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Spacers are not so because of genetics only. It is a combination of conditioning and the consequences of living in space on the human body, which is more than "genetics". It is currently unknown what happens to humans when we are conceived, carried, and then birthed all within zero-g. The most popular hypothesises are that a baby born in space turns into an adult that can never step foot on a terrestrial planet.

That is what is being represented. The spacers do not have genetic drifting turning them into a distinctly new species. Their bodies have been changed from their young adulthood (as the first spacers) or in birth (as the first spacers born in space).

[LordFowl]

Then why are more spacers being born now that there is artificial gravity? If it is because artificial gravity is so uncommon as to allow a significant population of spacers to be available to the Aurora, why aren’t there any xeno spacers, as all xenos have had access to space long enough for there to be a generation able to be born in space, and xenos are even less likely to have access to artificial gravity than a significant population of humanity. Answering this question was unnecessary when space-adaption was purely roleplay, and I don’t think this species mechanically represents enough to justify creating such a divide, nor that there is enough to mechanically represent.

[Zundy]

Names aside (cus it's a nit pick imo), why not make it so these jello-bone boyes can be from any faction and are just humans raised in low-to-no gravity? Opens the door for more RP imo. Solarian off worlders who look down on weenie frontiersmen, haughty off worlder dominian nobles in anti gravity harnesses that hate house atreides...I mean low borns.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Zundy
Typo

[Hendricks]

I love it. I like the idea of them a lot and the background, it makes sense to me. As for the backpack ESS, I imagine having no storage capacity would be a pain in the ass, but I wouldn't mind. But some people with specific jobs might.   

[Coalf]

14 minutes ago, LordFowl said:

Then why are more spacers being born now that there is artificial gravity? If it is because artificial gravity is so uncommon as to allow a significant population of spacers to be available to the Aurora, why aren’t there any xeno spacers, as all xenos have had access to space long enough for there to be a generation able to be born in space, and xenos are even less likely to have access to artificial gravity than a significant population of humanity. Answering this question was unnecessary when space-adaption was purely roleplay, and I don’t think this species mechanically represents enough to justify creating such a divide, nor that there is enough to mechanically represent.

If you would direct your gaze to what Kyres wrote and read it instead of looking at it, you'd read this:
"The offworlders on board NanoTrasen stations are not a new introduction, but higher gravity stations have recently began to see workers descending from zero-gravity environments. This is due to the recent proliferation of the unique ESS modules thanks to NanoTrasen’s mass distribution of them to workers seeking alternative job routes. These ESS, or Exo-Stellar Skeleton modules, are RIG-like exoskeletons that assist in movement and comfort in a standard gravity environment. Though old inventions, their recent mass upgrades from NT has allowed them to meet health and safety standards for comfortable work, and has sparked a large immigration back into the Core Worlds from these afflicted Humans."

Which answers your first question. "Why so many now?"

To answer your second question: "Why are there no xeno low gravs?"
We feel this is unnecessary bloat. Spacers have been already present in the code long before, and if all our ideas would boil down to "the species but it gets the spacer suit", it would be redundant. You are however free to code, sprite and suggest these variations if your heart desires but I feel those will be rejected due to being bloat. We do have the Lore Request forum.

Regarding: "Mechanics"
If you consider all of the additions that have been suggested as "not enough", then I simply can't help you. If you feel like you're being robbed of vital mechanics, you're free to offer or make more. We are looking forward to the solutions suggested by people.

Regarding: "Factions"
Spacers, as seen above, are only a representative faction. You are 100% allowed to make them from any faction you please, with your own twists and turns on them!  This is why they're remaining un-whitelisted.