[Denied] Command Whitelist APP - TheOrleans

[TheOrleans]

5 hours ago, Mogelix said:

He gets suspended on a round by round basis. The only reason he doesn't get Incident Reports is because no one can really bother, too much of a headache, crossing their fingers OOC action will be taken, or that you'll maybe start playing cadet.

You should check the differences between IC and OOC more often!

5 hours ago, Mogelix said:

I'd also like to say that I don't think Nick is a 3d character or a reasonable asshole. He's more of a clown, cartwheeling in and saying what he pleases, doing whatever he feels like, then shouting over comms when he is punished.

This is your opinion, I respect it, others here (people who roleplayed like, a lot more than you probably have with Nick) said the opposite.

5 hours ago, Mogelix said:

You have admitted that around 2/3 of your time spent in-game is as Nick. That leaves some pretty thin time slots to play three other characters, which now, one may become Head of Personnel, despite you admittedly, rarely playing them.

I mean, you're even allowed to create a totally new character to play it as Command, playing a character daily is not a requirement for him to become Command.

5 hours ago, Mogelix said:

There's also, nothing stopping you from taking any position you please. You say you won't instantly give Nick HoS, but with a all of command whitelist, who's to say how long you'll play your new bob mcfriendly HoS and HoP, and start rushing to get a half-arsed IC reason to have Nick play HoS.

One thing is to say Nick's an asshole and whatever you want. A very much different thing is to call me a liar. I said what I said, and what you're saying now shows a total lack of respect. If had an urge to play HoS, I would have deleted Nick, made a typical friendly officer, play half a month daily, interacting with as many people as I could in a friendly way to get their +1 and cya folks. I accept all the hate you want to throw at Nick, but when talking to me as a player, please, control yourself. Thank you.

[Mogelix]

3 hours ago, TheOrleans said:

You should check the differences between IC and OOC more often!

Alright, OOCly, it'd be a headache to deal with Nick. ICly, it'd be a headache to deal with Nick. I ICly dislike Nick for being a asshole. I OOCly dislike Nick for being a 2D Asshole character. The IC and OOC is seperate yet exactly the same.

3 hours ago, TheOrleans said:

One thing is to say Nick's an asshole and whatever you want. A very much different thing is to call me a liar. I said what I said, and what you're saying now shows a total lack of respect. If had an urge to play HoS, I would have deleted Nick, made a typical friendly officer, play half a month daily, interacting with as many people as I could in a friendly way to get their +1 and cya folks. I accept all the hate you want to throw at Nick, but when talking to me as a player, please, control yourself. Thank you.

I'm not calling you a liar, I'm just saying, that's the kind of shit people do, they compromise the cohesion and quality of the RP to play their fantasy command staff. It's why we have applications, to OOCly screen people before they go around being big important boys on the station, and yet despite that we still have some pretty low effort command players. 

 

3 hours ago, TheOrleans said:

I mean, you're even allowed to create a totally new character to play it as Command, playing a character daily is not a requirement for him to become Command.

That's not the context. We're discussing character  and RP quality. If you have sparse time to play a character, it's hard for others to define their quality of RP due to lack of experience with them. With the time I've spent with Nick, I don't like how his character is designed and is RPed. With him in my head as the primary example for your RP, I can't help but think that you shouldn't be command.

3 hours ago, TheOrleans said:

This is your opinion, I respect it, others here (people who roleplayed like, a lot more than you probably have with Nick) said the opposite.

Okay, thanks.

Let's just drop this. I'm going to keep the Minus One cause it's my dead-set opinion. Arguing with me is mostly just annoying the moderator who's going through this crap RN, although it's always good to honestly state your opinion.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Mogelix

[TheOrleans]

6 hours ago, Mogelix said:

Alright, OOCly, it'd be a headache to deal with Nick. ICly, it'd be a headache to deal with Nick. I ICly dislike Nick for being a asshole. I OOCly dislike Nick for being a 2D Asshole character. The IC and OOC is seperate yet exactly the same.

I'm not calling you a liar, I'm just saying, that's the kind of shit people do, they compromise the cohesion and quality of the RP to play their fantasy command staff. It's why we have applications, to OOCly screen people before they go around being big important boys on the station, and yet despite that we still have some pretty low effort command players. 

 

That's not the context. We're discussing character  and RP quality. If you have sparse time to play a character, it's hard for others to define their quality of RP due to lack of experience with them. With the time I've spent with Nick, I don't like how his character is designed and is RPed. With him in my head as the primary example for your RP, I can't help but think that you shouldn't be command.

Okay, thanks.

Let's just drop this. I'm going to keep the Minus One cause it's my dead-set opinion. Arguing with me is mostly just annoying the moderator who's going through this crap RN, although it's always good to honestly state your opinion.

I mean, I'm ''arguing'' (I prefer discussing) with you, not to make you change your -1 to +1, that was never my idea. I'm speaking with you to gather feedback, as much as I can. The idea of this app was to gather feedback, since I was like 90% sure I wasn't going to get through it! I don't think this is annoying for the moderator, in this case Juani, he volunteered for this job, don't think he's annoyed *shrug*

[AmoryBlaine]

By what I've seen of your characters, Volvolaad and Kotchal- the Detective one- you are not someone I want to see as a whitelisted Head player.

 

 

[TheOrleans]

4 minutes ago, AmoryBlaine said:

By what I've seen of your characters, Volvolaad and Kotchal- the Detective one- you are not someone I want to see as a whitelisted Head player.

If you developed a bit more it would be useful for me to learn or to understand it! Thanks.

[stev]

From what little I've seen/interacted with Volvalaad, you seem to have either quite poor understanding of the lore, little care for it or perhaps both, a rather bad thing for a Head. -1

[TheOrleans]

3 hours ago, stev said:

From what little I've seen/interacted with Volvalaad, you seem to have either quite poor understanding of the lore, little care for it or perhaps both, a rather bad thing for a Head. -1

If you're talking about the Dominian LORE, I would say I'm probably one of the persons who know it better. However, Volvalaad has a 7 months development as character, and you probably lack a lot of knowledge about him.

[simfantic]

-1 I've had rounds where you've completely ruined roleplay (removing batteries from a mech, shutting me down as a vamp almost immediately). I've been on Aurora for roughly 2 years, going on my 3rd soon enough and there really on a select few who actually deserve a place on the Command team, I do not believe Nick (or any other of your characters who I have hardly seen) to be capable of the responsibility. 

[TheOrleans]

1 hour ago, simfantic said:

-1 I've had rounds where you've completely ruined roleplay (removing batteries from a mech, shutting me down as a vamp almost immediately). I've been on Aurora for roughly 2 years, going on my 3rd soon enough and there really on a select few who actually deserve a place on the Command team, I do not believe Nick (or any other of your characters who I have hardly seen) to be capable of the responsibility. 

I know the round you're talking about.

The mech one, in fact, it was very roleplay-wise to pilot a combat exosuit into the shuttle, and when I shut it down removing the battery you were sad cause I ruined your fun. Sorry, that's what I had to do.

And the vamp one, not sure, since sometimes antags are just ''bad'', so they get shut down in a moment. 

For future reference, do not mix ''having your fun'' and ''roleplaying''. Even when losing you can enjoy the roleplay.

[Doxxmedearly]

This is exactly what I mean when I say you're tiring to deal with OOC.

You ask for feedback, and receive it. You are not entitled to it, and people are taking the time from their day to point out what they view as potential problems. Instead of giving thought to what is said, you try to dispute the validity of said feedback in an incredibly rude and backhanded way.

Not all points of feedback will be valid. But if you seek it out, you should take it, give it some thorough thought, and figure out what is and isn't constructive. If several people are pointing out similar issues, it's likely that there are problems there that need to be looked at. There is not a post on this second page (made by others) that I disagree with. Feedback is there to help you improve. You need to use it; it's more than just your rp that you need to work on.

If you cannot see the problem with your tone throughout this thread, then you are nowhere near ready for the responsibility of any whitelist. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Doxxmedearly

[TheOrleans]

16 hours ago, Doxxmedearly said:

This is exactly what I mean when I say you're tiring to deal with OOC.

You ask for feedback, and receive it. You are not entitled to it, and people are taking the time from their day to point out what they view as potential problems. Instead of giving thought to what is said, you try to dispute the validity of said feedback in an incredibly rude and backhanded way.

Not all points of feedback will be valid. But if you seek it out, you should take it, give it some thorough thought, and figure out what is and isn't constructive. If several people are pointing out similar issues, it's likely that there are problems there that need to be looked at. There is not a post on this second page (made by others) that I disagree with. Feedback is there to help you improve. You need to use it; it's more than just your rp that you need to work on.

If you cannot see the problem with your tone throughout this thread, then you are nowhere near ready for the responsibility of any whitelist. 

Actually I've thanked every single person that took his or her time to post feedback in a constructive way, however if I feel a post lacks that constructive way, as you said I'm not going to count it, and for example simfantic post I felt it had a destructive idea behind since I ruined his fun a couple of rounds.

I don't think my tone has been bad during all the app, and I think I've been quite polite when answering every single post that gave interesting and well constructed feedback, however, I'm not going to react in a kind way to someone who posted -1 without reading an app that took me a long time.

It's a matter of respect towards the work of the people.

[geeves]

all feedback is important, because there's a reason it comes your way

 

sometimes you need to do the introspection yourself, at which stage, if you're capable of doing without someone spoonfeeding you it, you'll be ready for command

[TheOrleans]

4 hours ago, geeves said:

all feedback is important, because there's a reason it comes your way

 

sometimes you need to do the introspection yourself, at which stage, if you're capable of doing without someone spoonfeeding you it, you'll be ready for command

Well, I don't share your opinion, not totally at least.

All feedback with good-faith, and posted in a constructive way is important. In this post there have been messages that locked both of them, however, as you can see, it's not the general case, I've shown my appreciation to many users who replied 

[DeadLantern]

I think a trial would be far more accurate for gauging orleans' attitude than previous incidents. I feel this for every app.

I also do not think Orleans needs more constructive criticism, he has enough to fix himself. It is his job to apply it.

[TheSleepyCatmom]

Personally I believe he should apply it to his current play before being allowed to try it on a command-level-scale in which it would affect entire rounds and give people even more reason to dislike some of his characters were it to continue. A -1 from me, however most of my sentiments would just be echoing prior posts in the thread so I'll save three paragraphs of repeating others.

 

What I will offer, however, is that I believe it's an easy issue to fix, in terms of application. It's been easy for me, at least, to apply it. But a good first step would trying to iron out some 'kinks', as it were, in the armor that is your character. I don't mean lore-wise, I mean in his attitude and perspective and way he treats others. If your main character, Volvalaad, is what we see most, that's what we're going to judge you on. Alternatively, you can make an effort to appear more obvious with your other characters tos how you don't only play that way. But that's just my two cents, I suppose.

[Scheveningen]

You're excessively aggressive and undiplomatic as the Volvalaad character from my experiences with roleplaying with them. You roleplay an extreme level of independence with them to the point where Volvalaad is often defiant and unhelpful to their head of staff's wishes and often makes decisions to the detriment of a team attempting to accomplish a mission to a specific expected standard by said head of staff. I can't count how many times I've witnessed this as a head of security, as a round observer and then having discussed this with other security players.

Being self-sustaining is perfectly fine, but being outwardedly self-interested kills unit cohesion, team morale and often drains the OOC will of others wanting to continue in playing the round out due to the problematic nature of the character's defining attributes in behavior. A poor team member will be an even poorer team leader, as a team member with substantial weaknesses unresolved will not be an effective manager or problem-solver. And that's what a leader is, someone who directs focus wherever it is needed and knows how to solve problems by distributing team members to remedy them.

The failure to understand that makes me think you need more time to prove you understand this concept and execute it reliably enough that you can at least be OOCly trusted to understand what being a head of staff is about.

[Xelnagahunter]

On 22/05/2019 at 14:37, DeadLantern said:

I think a trial would be far more accurate for gauging orleans' attitude than previous incidents. I feel this for every app.

I also do not think Orleans needs more constructive criticism, he has enough to fix himself. It is his job to apply it.

If a trial was the only metric we used and not past behavior then there would be not point in an application system that asks for player feedback and whatnot. There is no point in giving someone a trial spot and letting them ruin rounds if people don't think them capable. If they seem capable then a trial should be placed to ensure they can do it before final selection. In this case, there isn't enough evidence to show that the player is capable of using non-antagonistic characters that work as part of a team and enhance the round in a positive light. Hence the suggestions by myself and many others that they play someone other than Volvalaad to prove that they can do it. Volvalaad may or may not be a reasonable character, so far they have not landed in any major IC trouble via CCIA that I am aware of, but he's not currently head material and, as far as the community is aware, is the primary play style for the player.

Your second point is true. Most people are repeating information over and over and at this point I feel Orleans has the knowledge set required to better themself or improve the quality that we openly see. This application should either sit and wait until people are shown the improvement or they can reapply later. Either is a valid option and I don't think anyone here wants for Orleans to be unable to prove everyone wrong. The community would be better if they could. People just need to see it happen first. I have faith that they understand this and are capable of moving forward with this knowledge set.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Xelnagahunter

[Predatory Instinct]

-1

I've waited for a while, figured I would not post here publicly since we've hashed out things in DM as I prefer but per less than recent events I'm going to voice exactly what I did to you in private here on your application.

 

I have few issues which I have raised to you and while they are only really two I can count that come to mind, they severely impact my view of you as a player who intends on bringing a character to the server as a Head of Security, let alone command staff. I'll point out clearly here and now that I have less of an issue with you personally, you're pretty chill once we started to hang out here and there, but as formerly stated, these are reasons I would prefer seeing you improve before you hold a command whitelist.

My first of only two points would be your consistent LOOC whining about wanting to be put into cryo, asking the staff members for permission to ghost out of RP and so on which I have no idea why they grant, ever. I, as just a spectator have seen this happen and it just blew my mind someone who is so invested in a character is willing to just...leave a roleplay simply because it is not going how the character or player wants it to go. That is why in my mind, even if we have a friendship that flourishes, you're not truly as masterful of a writer as you claim to be. I mean no offense by this statement, but you using it as a reason to say you're 'good, pretty good' at roleplay is honestly laughable.

My second really just ties into the first issue. I have taken my OOC time from a round and sat down for one-on-one RP with you between Warren and Nick to teach a few things that he was lacking. After that came radio silence for a while since the two didn't see eachother for a bit and then the cryogenic storage oversight pinging off that he'd been moved to storage. That left both the character and myself sour, and feeling like it was a way to avoid roleplay. Especially since I saw your handle in OOC for the next while during the round so....you were there online, and on Byond, and on Aurora. But not in game, as the character whom I'd planned out RP with on an IC level.

These points aside, best of luck. I hope you improve your roleplay skills from an OOC standpoint before you move up to command staff. And if not, I wish you even more luck with what happens after. Lord knows we already have enough iffy-RP command floating around from time to time.

[TheOrleans]

1 hour ago, Predatory Instinct said:

My first of only two points would be your consistent LOOC whining about wanting to be put into cryo, asking the staff members for permission to ghost out of RP and so on which I have no idea why they grant, ever. I, as just a spectator have seen this happen and it just blew my mind someone who is so invested in a character is willing to just...leave a roleplay simply because it is not going how the character or player wants it to go.

 

1 hour ago, Predatory Instinct said:

My second really just ties into the first issue. I have taken my OOC time from a round and sat down for one-on-one RP with you between Warren and Nick to teach a few things that he was lacking. After that came radio silence for a while since the two didn't see eachother for a bit and then the cryogenic storage oversight pinging off that he'd been moved to storage. That left both the character and myself sour, and feeling like it was a way to avoid roleplay. Especially since I saw your handle in OOC for the next while during the round so....you were there online, and on Byond, and on Aurora. But not in game, as the character whom I'd planned out RP with on an IC level.

I think you're talking about when I cryoed after the incident with Medley, right? In fact, the moment I did this, Garn bwoinked me about it (that's the reason why I was still online), and told me not to abuse it in the future. It was 6AM and I had to sleep, and since I was in brig for 30min, I thought that the roleplay was finished, and staying AFK in Communal for 30min while watching videos wasn't the thing I wanted to do at 6AM. But I will try to avoid doing this in the future, since I recognize I do this more than what would be... recommended. 

 

1 hour ago, Predatory Instinct said:

in my mind, even if we have a friendship that flourishes, you're not truly as masterful of a writer as you claim to be. I mean no offense by this statement, but you using it as a reason to say you're 'good, pretty good' at roleplay is honestly laughable.

I'm Tolkien, it's not my problem you don't appreciate it. Jokes aside, I think that I'm pretty good at roleplaying, writing and developing characters, but my behaviour (doing things like going to cryo or bitching in LOOC, thing I have to fix too) taints it.

 

Thank you for the reply

Edited May 25, 2019 by TheOrleans

[Juani2400]

Hello.

I've been waiting for a bit to see some plurality of the community in this application. As you've probably read, most of the people here raise similar points and we are not sure if you would be cut for a trial. This application is being denied, with the expectation from you to create a new character and possibly take into consideration some of the feedback people have passed you, and work towards an improvement of the situation, with a character that you'd think would actually fit the role of Command, in order to show the community that you truly understand how you must behave OOCly in order to be Command, and that you know how to play a character that is not how people described Nick as being here.

You are free to reapply whenever you decide, once you think you've fixed most of these issues.

Good luck!