Robodoc Alt Title Removal

[geeves]

This PR will remove roboticist alt-titles, feel free to provide feedback in favour of its removal, or of keeping it, below.

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/9427

[FearTheBlackout]

Honestly, while the idea of specializing in a field is fun, and I've used it to great effect in the past, it doesn't really work for Robotics. You're right in that there definitely isn't enough for Robotics to do to justify it. There was also a large divide of players who either specialized in one thing or knew everything, and there was no official stance to say which was correct. This does away with all of that nicely, so it has my support.

[NewOriginalSchwann]

I disagree with the other two members of this thread. Roboticists get an absolutely busted amount of content for just one job, such as:

• Building and repairing hardsuits
• Building and repairing exosuits
• Cyborg maintenance
• AI maintenance
• Repairing cyborgs
• Cyborgification (the surgery)
• Building cyborgs (the chassis)
• Piloting exosuits
• Using hardsuits
• Repairing external and internal prosthetics
• Installing internal and external prosthetics
  
  This is a pretty huge amount of content for one job title (I probably forgot a few things, honestly), and the alternative titles help designate what a character is supposed to be good at. I'd much rather see robotics have its alternative jobs better described (i.e. with what they can do written down) or the job changed to be a biomechanical engineer and a mechatronic engineer (with both being one-slot jobs).
  
  As such, I can't support this PR as it now stands.

[Shenaanigans]

I'm in agreement with Schwann that robotics has a lot of varied tasks they are often expected to be able to handle and, realistically, it doesn't make too much sense that someone has the credentials to perform brain surgery for the sake of cyborgification then turn around and build a stationbound from the ground up. I think the most sensible course of action would be splitting the two robotics slots up into one biomechanical engineer (handling prosthesis and cyborgification) and one mechatronic engineer (handling mechs, hardsuits, and stationbounds) with a sort of middle ground of IPC maintenance, AI nonsense, and other minor responsibilities divvied up based on whether someone thinks their character would feasibly have the knowledge for it. I know it puts a good amount of faith into people sticking to tasks fit to their title, but there's precedent for that in things like medical (surgeon versus physician) and it just... makes more sense to me than encouraging roboticists to be wondercombo surgeons and engineers.

[Doxxmedearly]

Echoing Shen and Schwann. "Not enough to do" is a non-argument. As well, we shouldn't be encouraging characters with no weaknesses in their job duties. It's a wide field in-game. 

If there's confusion in what titles can do what (Which I have seen), then the better solution in my eyes is to better define the alt titles. Or, split the slots. That's fine, too. There is enough material there to maintain a distinction between duties.

Everything else I feel has been nicely summed up by the two posters before me. 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Doxxmedearly

[Itanimulli]

I dont see a reason to do any of this; to split the role, or remove the alt titles.

 

Is there any real reason to do either of these?

 

[Snakebittenn]

The problem I have is that Roboticist and Mechatronic Engineer are literally synonymous. Mechatronic Engineer isn't 'haha I do exosuits' it's still robotics. Biomechanics is just human musculature and shit.
I'd prefer the following.
Roboticist > Mechatronic Technician (covers anything robotics)
Biomechanical Engineer > Augmentation Technician (covers what limited amount of content there is that biomechanical engineers currently insist on)
Mechatronic technician > EVA Technician (covers hardsuits, exos)

[Carver]

As said, there's so much for roboticists to do that encouraging them to do it all gives them a greater prowess than a super-doc CMO. Either retain the specialization titles, or rip some of these features and put them elsewhere (exosuits/hardsuits) for a new and different job to do. On the note of 'doing it all', put medical in charge of all the surgeries not related to fixing prosthetics or robotic chassis.

[Itanimulli]

5 hours ago, Carver said:

As said, there's so much for roboticists to do that encouraging them to do it all gives them a greater prowess than a super-doc CMO. Either retain the specialization titles, or rip some of these features and put them elsewhere (exosuits/hardsuits) for a new and different job to do. On the note of 'doing it all', put medical in charge of all the surgeries not related to fixing prosthetics or robotic chassis.

This. There is no reason to frick the slots. Give the brain part of cyborgificaion to medical. Or just like. Have it so that medical is the one with access to the cyborgification room.

BAM, no more brain surgeon roboticists.

[niennab]

My only concern, and I only ran into it once, was a person who used their title as a Biomechanical Engineer title to say that "I don't repair IPCs" which, considering humans get an entire medical department and IPCs get two people, sometimes not staffed, this can be incredibly detrimental and in my opinion a big no-no. The person eventually repaired the player with push, however other than that, I understand the purpose of the titles. They aren't there to offer what someone cannot do, but rather what someone specializes in.

[UnknownMurder]

So, can we remove robotics alt-titles? There is no need for having alt titles for robotics, robotics is not immensely complex as Medical is. I think there needs to be more conversation about this with the community.

Edited July 31, 2020 by UnknownMurder

[Carver]

I'd only support that if Robotics lost the neurosurgery. They shouldn't be sticking their hands in anything that isn't metal.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Carver

[UnknownMurder]

13 minutes ago, Carver said:

I'd only support that if Robotics lost the neurosurgery. They shouldn't be sticking in their hands in anything that isn't metal.

I am okay with this suggestion. It allows for cross-departmental collaboration.

[furrycactus]

3 hours ago, Carver said:

I'd only support that if Robotics lost the neurosurgery. They shouldn't be sticking their hands in anything that isn't metal.

This is a necessary aspect for cyborgification. Cyborgs literally have brains stuffed into an MMI. So do some AIs.

Edited August 1, 2020 by furrycactus

[UnknownMurder]

Just have surgeon remove the brain. Surgeon gives the brain to the roboticist. Roboticist pops the sucker into the MMI. The Roboticist pops the MMI into Cyborg/AI.

I mean, it's a no-brainer.  

[Flpfs]

I think that the role of roboticist really doesn't need 2 separate titles as since there are only two slots, most of the time an alt title will have to do something outside of their specialty.

[ferner]

This has been implemented in another pull request. Locking and archiving.