Karhast Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 What server are you people playing on that cult ever does well? That it actually gets recruits just about ever?
niennab Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Pratepresidenten said: You have your cult prefs off: You die instantly when conversion is attempted. My issue with this is that although my cult preferences are off, I am fine being converted in round and I don't mind when these situations happen. I'd rather not DIE simply because I don't want to spawn as cultist or be drafted however.
Karhast Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 If you refuse to convert, you're going to die either way. It's really up to whether it's by the sword, a rune, or a soul shard then.
Myazaki Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 11 hours ago, MalMalumam said: Wait, hold on, I just saw a proc in the code, /datum/antagonist/cultist/proc/appraise_offering() ... ... ls this already implemented? ... I can't tell if this proc covers whether or not a person has cult turned on in their preferences. It is implemented, yes. It does not cover if Cultist is turned on in your preferences, since that does not prevent you from being converted.
Melariara Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 -1 For this, for reasons others have stated but mainly the whole, forced conversion would make me extremely uncomfortable. I like being an antag when I want to be an antag, not when someone decides it for me.
CampinKiller Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 What are we, an LRP server? May as well add flash converting to rev and loyalty implants again
Chada1 Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 This is one of the worst mechanics of the mode already, even if this'd make cult rounds go better, the mechanic is still extremely unpopular and is why people hate the mode. I think this is more of a bandaid for a wound that is actually too large for it to fit. It might work for a little bit but the wound is still going to get infected. By that, I mean, people are going to hate the mode even more, cryo, refuse to play, etc. If this is added.
Shenaanigans Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 I feel like there's an allusion to a deeper issue with the game mode going on here when the prospect of being recruited into cult gets such a vehemently negative response from a lot of players. Personally, my opinion is that by playing secret you're expected to engage in good faith with whatever antag type is rolled, and it seems like horrendously bad RP manners to get caught by a cultist and respond to conversion with cryo or refusing to play along. That said, the suggestions to make "resist until death" much quicker seems reasonable to me. If someone is that uninterested in being converted, they don't have to lay there slowly dying for 10 minutes and waste the cultist's time and, say, fifteen-ish seconds would leave at least a small window for a sweeping rescue. I'm just sympathetic for the sake of the cultist who goes to the trouble of capturing and isolating someone to get them onto a rune and, after all that work, all they get out of it is a corpse, so maybe some new benefit added in even if someone resists to death?
MalMalumam Posted September 1, 2020 Posted September 1, 2020 I've always been a little partial to the idea of letting failed converts simply forget the last 15 minutes or so, as well as the next 5 minutes or so, so that cultists can drop them off somewhere and let them be on their way. I dunno if that's in the spirit of things, though? I wonder what everyone considers to be so bad about cult?
Carver Posted September 2, 2020 Posted September 2, 2020 On 01/09/2020 at 19:06, MalMalumam said: I've always been a little partial to the idea of letting failed converts simply forget the last 15 minutes or so, as well as the next 5 minutes or so, so that cultists can drop them off somewhere and let them be on their way. I dunno if that's in the spirit of things, though? Isn't that just vampire where it becomes a ridiculous series of 'why does half the crew have amnesia and some other injury'? On 01/09/2020 at 19:06, MalMalumam said: I wonder what everyone considers to be so bad about cult? I see absolutely nothing wrong with how it's currently implemented. It has a potent mix of lethal options, a fairly decent recruitment system (that could serve better from another suggestion that wished to simply remove the mention of self-harm in rune creation to create a better face for recruitment), and I'd even go so far as to say an adequately skilled cultist player is on the level of a traitor in power. Where people usually draw issue is that the goal of the cult is usually centered about either mass death, or forced recruitment to rush Nar-Sie. It doesn't really have a whole lot going for it in the RP department - as it can't create vampires (whom are supposedly also veil-based), it can't use announcements to create a narrative akin to rev-types (without requesting such from an admin, at least), and it's a very combat centered role by design with it's plethora of potent runes capable of overcoming more or less any situation with the right planning - the most 'innovative' RP you can get from it is playing a torn lunatic plagued by the memories of their humanity. In the end, it ends up having very repetitive gimmicks that lend to every cult round feeling samey to some regard.
MalMalumam Posted September 3, 2020 Posted September 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Carver said: I see absolutely nothing wrong with how it's currently implemented. It has a potent mix of lethal options, a fairly decent recruitment system (that could serve better from another suggestion that wished to simply remove the mention of self-harm in rune creation to create a better face for recruitment), and I'd even go so far as to say an adequately skilled cultist player is on the level of a traitor in power. Where people usually draw issue is that the goal of the cult is usually centered about either mass death, or forced recruitment to rush Nar-Sie. It doesn't really have a whole lot going for it in the RP department - as it can't create vampires (whom are supposedly also veil-based), it can't use announcements to create a narrative akin to rev-types (without requesting such from an admin, at least), and it's a very combat centered role by design with it's plethora of potent runes capable of overcoming more or less any situation with the right planning - the most 'innovative' RP you can get from it is playing a torn lunatic plagued by the memories of their humanity. In the end, it ends up having very repetitive gimmicks that lend to every cult round feeling samey to some regard. I'm working on a PR to make drawing a cult rune much less obviously kooky : D I did try to suggest in the Cult wiki article that people should consider alternate objectives, such as mass conversion or sacrificing a certain target. But yeah, the combat/murder focus could be toned down. Maybe take a cue from Wizard spells - grow evil plants, a knock spell, mind swap, etc.
Carver Posted September 3, 2020 Posted September 3, 2020 41 minutes ago, MalMalumam said: I'm working on a PR to make drawing a cult rune much less obviously kooky : D I did try to suggest in the Cult wiki article that people should consider alternate objectives, such as mass conversion or sacrificing a certain target. But yeah, the combat/murder focus could be toned down. Maybe take a cue from Wizard spells - grow evil plants, a knock spell, mind swap, etc. Where it ought to take a cue from wizard is having a greater selection of themes over the singular blood cult, but that's far out of the scope of what most would be willing to do for it.
Chada1 Posted September 3, 2020 Posted September 3, 2020 42 minutes ago, Carver said: Where it ought to take a cue from wizard is having a greater selection of themes over the singular blood cult, but that's far out of the scope of what most would be willing to do for it. There's another mode called Deity other servers have which is p. much exactly what you mean
TrainTN Posted September 3, 2020 Posted September 3, 2020 3 hours ago, Carver said: Where it ought to take a cue from wizard is having a greater selection of themes over the singular blood cult, but that's far out of the scope of what most would be willing to do for it. I remember some server trying to add other kinds of cult to play as. Blood cult, fire cult, star cult, etc. etc. But that would be a lot of work that I doubt anyone would want to do. Personally I've always wished Cult mode should be more about discretion and subterfuge; the organization existing in the shadows, its beliefs spreading through the crew like a virus, silently vanishing those who resist, corrupting the station into a cursed and unnatural place (more than usual that is), all working together towards some dark goal bestowed upon them by a horrific abomination from beyond the stars. Not "let's put on robes and bumrush Security with swords." It's hard to RP though because you can't preach your crazy blood cult. You can't convince the average crewmember to join up and doodle shapes on the floor in blood with you. You have to force them to be as crazy as you. Some people take issue with that. I personally don't, because hey, it's not your character's fault they're crazy now, they were made crazy! You have the perfect excuse to act out-of-character and don't need to justify it! But some people resent that, and so they resent Cult (and other conversion modes too, usually).
Susan Posted September 3, 2020 Posted September 3, 2020 I'm not for this, but I'm also not for any changes to make conversion runes instant death or quicker death; you're forgetting the fact this means cultists would use them tactically to murder people instead of converting them as well. They would supplant the actual rune that needs multiple people for that.
StationCrab Posted September 4, 2020 Posted September 4, 2020 Forcing people to be antags that do not want to be never ends well for anyone.
nonno_anselmo Posted September 5, 2020 Posted September 5, 2020 Make the punishment for resisting harsher, brain damage, huge pain spikes, brain trauma such as paranoia and visions to at least represent your mind was still borked, bleeding/loss of blood, brute damage spike. Right now resisting cult does some damage but that stuff can be shrugged off really easy
TrainTN Posted September 5, 2020 Posted September 5, 2020 1 hour ago, nonno_anselmo said: Make the punishment for resisting harsher, brain damage, huge pain spikes, brain trauma such as paranoia and visions to at least represent your mind was still borked, bleeding/loss of blood, brute damage spike. Right now resisting cult does some damage but that stuff can be shrugged off really easy I think being kidnapped and placed on the conversion rune should be a "join or die" scenario, so the rune should be very capable of fulfilling the "die" option. Either join the Nar'Sie Fun Club or be smote to death.
Carver Posted September 6, 2020 Posted September 6, 2020 If you're in a situation where you're on a conversion rune in a private place, chances are you're not getting away from it anyways and will die. I don't really want to see it made more severe otherwise you'll have people abusing it in combat, or as said before, using it as a better sacrifice rune (and no, 'sacrifice rune isn't used' is not an argument against this - contain that murderboner a little more cleverly).
witchbells Posted September 6, 2020 Posted September 6, 2020 9 hours ago, nonno_anselmo said: Make the punishment for resisting harsher, brain damage, huge pain spikes, brain trauma such as paranoia and visions to at least represent your mind was still borked, bleeding/loss of blood, brute damage spike. Right now resisting cult does some damage but that stuff can be shrugged off really easy This seems rather pointless, for instance, I can't remember the last time a character refused conversion and lived to tell the tale, on account of them being murdered to death for resisting.
Arrow768 Posted September 8, 2020 Posted September 8, 2020 On 06/09/2020 at 09:47, witchbells said: This seems rather pointless, for instance, I can't remember the last time a character refused conversion and lived to tell the tale, on account of them being murdered to death for resisting. I concur with that statement and vote for dismissal. We already have a mechanic in place that deals a constant amount of damage during resisted conversion attempts. Its therefore already possible to kill someone who is repeatedly resisting the conversion.
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