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[Resolved] Staff Complaint - QueenOfYugoslavia


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BYOND Key: Bath Salts Addict 

Staff BYOND Key: QueenofYugoslavia 

Game ID: Unsure. It was a crossfire round on the 2nd of December. (Or 3rd depending on your timezone)

Reason for complaint: I was banned for rigging a bomb in the merc ship's hold to blow up, killing some of them along with a few crewmembers who had defected to the merc's side. Naturally, I contend the reasons justifying my ban, and the ban reason itself - unless it was changed since I pointed it out to Queen - provides erroneous information. 

Evidence/logs/etc:

So. Let's begin.

 

The round was a voted crossfire round. Surprisingly, instead of brutally murdering each other the mercs and the raiders teamed up. Even more surprisingly, instead of brutally murdering the station, they marched onboard and started a recruitment drive of sorts. Or at the very least, the recruitment drive was a diversion while they got up to mischief elsewhere. Security was all of three people, and later two as one of the officers ended up being so intimidated by them he gave them his gear and ran off to hide. Immediately from the get-go of getting onboard, the combined mercs and the raiders - heavily armed all - began waving their guns around and set up shop in the bar, deconstructing it and harassing the crew sitting around inside. They set up a recruitment booth and get to work manipulating whoever decides to walk up to them into joining them. To reiterate, the antags began recruiting crew to willingly join a band of murderous, intimidating thugs and a few even do (mostly the kind of characters that make you look at them, scratch your head and wonder how they even got hired in the first place)

Having intimidated sec into being a laughable mess and having convinced multiple crew to violate their legal contracts with NT and join up with a band of violent thugs, they begin the next phase of their occupation of the station. In order to further win the loyalty of one of their fresh recruits, they proceed to hospitalize another crewmember by violently attacking them (the victim being Willow Harper I believe) for some mundane reason or another and leaving them hospitalized with a fractured skull. They then proceed to break into the vault and are able to loot it clean, without the two remaining members of Security able to interfere unless they wanted to get absolutely steamrolled. An ERT gets called, but too little too late, as the round is coming to a close and the mercs and raiders are preparing to leave.

With the ERT called, I begin expecting things to come to a head and start arming up. A friendly raider that I met gives me a gun and also warns me that the mercs and raiders won't take kindly at all to the ERT being called, which further servers to exacerbate my fears. With ERT already on-station, the merc ship in the yellow dock and a crew transfer on the way with some crew already going to the dock to wait, I feel as if a shootout is going to become inevitable. As I wander into departures to investigate, I kill a carp that managed to break into the yellow dock and notice the hole it broke in through. Walking in, I trudge over to the merc ship to discover it pretty empty from what I could see inside. They forgot to close their shutters, of course. Also inside the hold, I spot the four bombs they left untouched. Wanting to try and disable the merc ship and leave them at the mercy of the ERT, I ahelp Alberyk and ask for permission to bomb the merc shuttle. He says yes, and so I shoot out the window leading to the bombs, set the timer on one to a minute and ten seconds, throw it in further to the wall connecting the bomb room to the entry airlock and walk casually back onto the station. Almost immediately upon entering through the hole I went out through I see a merc, and smoothtalk my way out of suspicion and watch him get on his ship. This is going to get juicy.

As I walk out into the hallway, I casually stand by and strike up a conversation via comms with one of the raiders I had to force out of the kitchen earlier since they were harassing the chef. Meanwhile, a line of red-suits wordlessly march past me into their shuttle, and shortly after it explodes and I make a terrible cliche'd pun, a la terribly cliche'd detective, as said raider just so happened to have mentioned the word 'explosive' the moment it did.

Except... Just one problem. Apparently the mercs found the time to stuff their fresh recruits in spare suits and the red suits I saw march past was a combination of those recruits and the actual mercs, and so while some mercs died, the majority of the ship's casualties (which undocked shortly before the bomb went off) were of the recruits that had willingly joined up with them. Well shit.

Some of those recruits take exception to what happened and can't smash that ahelp button soon enough. Almost immediately I am bwoinked by Queen, and after a lengthy discussion I am banned. The full conversation between myself and them and a few other staff is below.

 

(I wanted to separate these into title cards for different "chapters" a la Red Dead Redemption 2's transitions for the hell of it, but I don't have the time or creative mind to do something like that.)

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Here I ascend my prayer for salvation to the heavens, and the Lord of Robusting Antags himself answers my pleas. The wheel has been set in motion.

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Queen contacts me, and I immediately clarify that Alberyk had given me permission.

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This is where I found out that there innocents caught in the explosion. But that can't be right, I watched the dock and I only saw red suits pile in. Unless...

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Well shit. Still, it was the defected 'crew's' perogative to willingly join a band of murderous thugs, partake in their crimes and attempt to escape without repercussions. Although it was never my intention to kill them had I knew they were the red-suits marching past me beforehand, they willingly put themselves in that situation and unfortunately died as a result. The timer was already set when they walked aboard, and I could not have foreseen things playing out as they did.

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Here Queen reiterates her point and I reiterate mine, and to be fair I should have explained early on that I had set the bomb prior to knowing that the merc's recruits were piling onto the shuttle. However, this point is simply either erroneous or exaggerated. "Bombed departures indiscriminately" is an over-exaggeration, and implies I detonated all three docks with the bomb when in reality I made sure the radius was farthest away from even the yellow dock's entry, and at most it blew out the windows closest to the shuttle which was quickly repaired. Even then, if they weren't involved they wouldn't have helped the antags commit their crimes, violated their contracts and followed a band of violent goons onto their ship to do the same crimes elsewhere to some other station. It's not exactly black and white, here.

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Here I'm not sure if Queen was paying attention to the round or even knows how escalation works themselves. It's true that we didn't start shooting at the antags because with their numbers they would have absolutely demolished us. Killing anyone, even antags, was secondary to my intention of disabling the ship to leave them stranded. To my justice-oriented character, it is a better course of action than letting them run off into space to do exactly what they did to the Aurora on other stations or colonies.

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Even if I had known they were dressed up as mercs, there wouldn't have been much time to run in and disable the bomb, and it's likely the mercs would have saw me fiddling with a bunch of bombs and killed me immediately. That is not to say I wouldn't have tried if I did know, however, since it's against Noir's character to willingly be responsible - indirectly or directly - for the death of innocents - even if said innocents are not really that innocent at all.

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Because I was there, and one of only two active Sec around. The other was the Warden who was doing all he could to hold down the fort in the Brig or else we would've been really screwed. Why the antags didn't raid the armory is beyond me.

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No bombs were built or even modified. They were all sitting there in a row like a pretty bunch of coconuts. If Queen was paying attention at all to the round, they would have asked this the moment I ahelped for permission to blow up the merc ship if this was such a concern.

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Here I go into detail as to exactly what the antags had done to escalate the situation to that point.

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Here Yonnimer takes over very briefly as I guess Queen DC'd (maybe they didn't see my last points when they did) and asks me about the bombs themselves.

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Queen comes back and asks about my past history - which was quite a bit ago. All in all ever since my last ban, I've been a saint. They go even further and claim that it's validhunting and gank. I should have reiterated that I didn't exactly care whether or not the bomb killed any antags, and it doing so was just a happy little accident. Along with the not-so-happy little accident that was the collateral.

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Now here is where I feel there is a slight bias involved on Queen's part. Their last point is simply erroneous. The behavior had not been ongoing. I have been bwoinked before when staff felt like they needed me to do some explaining, and I always have and always got the okay. I've even taken to ahelping before I do anything that could be misconstrued, such as blowing up a merc ship or getting an autolathe hacked as Warden.

The bias on Queen's part is likely stemming from an unfortunate encounter I had with them. During a lowpop traitor round, their RD character was a traitor and was manipulating events from behind the scenes. Security was attacked by an antag that I believe they armed up and told to have at 'em, and I had discovered Queen's involvement. I began to slowly confront them bit by bit, and when I outright accused the traitor-RD of being a low-down no good dirty traitor, they tried to brush me off and began walking away from me despite my numerous attempts to get them to stop, so I peppersprayed them. Queen ahelped, and the situation was handled by Yonnimer who saw no real fault in the situation. If @Yonnimer remembers that situation and all and wants to add in his side of things, I would plead that he does, as I feel as if Queen might have still been feeling sour from that whole fiasco because to my knowledge I never had even a small issue that could hint towards repetitious behavior.

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Here I make a last ditch effort to defend myself, and ask for another member of staff to step in - preferably one with seniority as I felt like the conditions Queen was putting in place in an attempt to keep me banned for as long as possible is beyond what a Moderator is and/or should be allowed to do. Eventually I just shrug and eat the ban, resolved to make this complaint.

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Here is the ban itself, which is erroneous as the reasoning says that I had waited twenty minutes after first being authorized by Alberyk to bomb the ship and implies that I had decided to bomb the ship expressly for the purpose to acquire valids. 'Large amount' is also dubious, as to my knowledge only two of the assistants part of that particular metabuddy group that joined up with the mercs died.

Additional remarks:

Now. Slightly unrelated rant time.

Personally, I feel as if the community is too eager to smash the ahelp button anytime someone so much as looks at them funny, let alone kills them - antag or otherwise. This makes people who play antag and security overly-cautious and generally breeds an environment that is tense, unfriendly and outright toxic, knowing that at a moment doing the wrong thing inadvertently can make someone start seeing red in a blind seething rage. They don't ahelp out of concern for rules possibly being broken, they ahelp out of no desire other than petty vindictiveness. This is SS13. Unpredicted things happen, you're in a game where every role - up to and especially the robots - are filled out by a human. Said humans are not as infallible as some people like to believe they are, but I will go out on a limb and say that no one on this server is going out of their way to maliciously ruin as many rounds as they can. People need to stop acting like it's a personal attack on them anytime they get horizontal'd for any reason.

As a whole, I think a lot of people just need to take a deep breath, step back, analyze the situation to see if anyone is truly at fault, realize it's a game, suck it up and either observe, play another game or rejoin the round as a new character until the next one. We're all guilty of this, of course, even myself, but at least make an effort to realize that no one is out to get you. Yes, even the person that blew your head off with a shotgun has reasons that seem sound to him for doing so. Stop wasting energy on being so goddamn angry and vindictive all the time, at least not without making an effort to figure out the justification someone might have. It's not healthy for you, as a person, and neither is it healthy for the community. SS13 might be a game about looking over your shoulder in suspicion at even your closest friends, but if we start acting that way OOCly I can assure you it isn't going to be good for anyone. It's not welcoming to new people, and it's dissuading to old-timers, and it's just exhausting having to constantly watch what you're doing, having to hear a bwoink every second and spend the next thirty minutes explaining themselves to avoid a ban just because someone got angry. I would rather sit out a round for two hours by getting killed even under dodgy terms than potentially make someone sit out the server for far longer than it took you to puff out your cheeks and smash your keyboard.

Aurora is a great server, with great lore, coders, staff and mechanics, and has managed for years to keep a solid and sizeable playerbase without having to resort to gimmicks like allowing ERP to keep people playing. Don't spoil it all by letting your frustrations and anger turn the community toxic. I know even the worst bad apples in this community are better than that.

Edited by Juani2400
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Alb aswell as others agreed with the verdict. The decision was not mine alone but based on the staff consensus at the time

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You after the round proceeded to brag about it in ooc and ic aswell.

However you nitpicked the ahelp aswell and I wish you posted the full version of it, which I will do however

 

[02:29:36] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: hey, got a sec? 
[02:29:42] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: Alberyk (?) allowed me to 
[02:35:07] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: You had ahelped earlier about it, he didnt ok you detonating it with (?) innocents as collateral, did he? 
[02:35:37] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: If the innocents decided to follow the heavily armed mercenaries onto their blood-red, heavily armed ship, that's their own perogative. Their 'recruits' had already went and harmed crew before at their insistence. 
[02:37:46] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: You still just, bombed departures indiscriminately and killed people who were not involved.....as a detective, with (?) ERT on standby 
[02:38:39] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: The bomb's radius only damaged the exterior windows. It was not indscriminantly, as they shouldn't have been following the mercs onto their shuttle if they weren't directly involved at all. 
[02:39:11] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: Thats not how escalation works. Just because they follow somebody doesnt mean you can just blow them all up 
[02:39:44] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: I didn't know they were following behind. I had planted the bomb before any of the mercs got on their ship. In fact, I intended to disable the ship so they would be at the mercy of the ERT. 
[02:43:45] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: But you just said you saw them get on with (?) them. You planted it earlier but you still went through with killing innocent peopler for nothing 
[02:44:24] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: I had no idea there was a bunch of crewmembers that joined up with (?) them getting on. They were all wearing red suits. I was concerned with walking out of a hole in the window and not getting suspected of breaking into their ship 
[02:44:54] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: I saw the line of red suits piling on, and I figured things were going to go smoothly. 
[02:45:11] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: This begs the question too of why a detective is. 
[02:45:16] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: 1. Planting bombs 
[02:45:22] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: 2. (?) Can build bombs 
[02:46:50] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: The merc ship had bombs in it just sitting by the window. The bombs were planted because a group of armed men had just arrived on the station, muscled crew into giving them corporate secrets, violated multiple employee contracts, violated just about every regulation, intimidated security and the rest of the station to the point where they were all made entirely ineffective and cowering, and attacked crew and left a cargo tech hospitalized 
[02:47:16] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: So I saw the bombs and asked Alberyk (?) if I could bomb the merc ship and he said yeah 
[02:52:42] yonnimer -> bathsaltsaddict: hi i'm taking over this ticket it for now. Were the bombs connected to the switch when you found them? 
[02:53:15] bathsaltsaddict -> yonnimer: Yes. I set the timer to a minute and ten seconds and walked away. I wanted it to just disable the ship, really, but the mercs happened to pile on at just the right moment 
[02:53:28] yonnimer -> bathsaltsaddict: passing this back to queen it would seem. 
[02:55:06] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: so you are aware of the past issues involving things from power gaming, validhubnting and other similar play, correct 
[02:55:14] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: aswell as a perma ban in the past 
[02:56:35] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: This was extremely irresponsible behavior aswell as conduct on your part. Ontop of that the validhunting/ganking these guys with (?) really no sense of respect for the collateral around it 
[02:56:39] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: I am aware, but considering the fact that I told Alberyk (?) what I wanted to do and got authorization from him beforehand, I don't particularly see this as a problem issue. I had my reasons, there was proper escalation. Escalation doesn't always have to result in largescale firefights, and doing so would be suicide against the combined mercs and raiders anyways. 
[02:56:50] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: I dont feel you have 
[02:57:15] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: Learned the lesson from your past ban. As the behavior has slowly been going on over and over since it in slow amounts 
[02:57:52] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: I'm not aware of any other situations that were indicative of anything being repetitive. 
[02:58:25] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: With (?) this said, I am going to be applying a ban with a undetermined length for the time being. I would like you to await till after the new year before making any appeal as I believe you do need to sit out for abit and after a time, make a case for how you can improve over time 
[02:58:34] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: Can I get a second opinion? 
[02:59:32] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: I did get authorization from Alb to bomb the merc ship. Any collateral was entirely the assistants who willingly joined the armed, dangerous men for no other purpose than money and walked onto the ship with (?) them willingly. 
[02:59:50] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: the general consensus from staff is that this behavior has gone on for awhile and the lesson wasnt learned 
[02:59:50] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: The bomb, however, was planted before anyone walked on the ship, and as they were all in red suits I failed to notice the assistants among them. 
[03:00:27] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: You may make a complaint if you feel this is a poor decision or wait till after January 1st 2019 to make a appeal 
[03:00:44] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: Very well. 
 

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I don’t see how crew members who betrayed the company, armed up, and defected with raiders and mercs who robbed the station blind in ways command and security could do nothing about (I was command, we agreed we were utterly helpless) could possibly be considered as innocent bystanders. 

 

I think BSA was perfectly justified. How is he expected to oocly know one red suited traitor from another?  He ahelped and was given permission to bomb the shuttle, he bombed the shuttle. He shouldn’t be punished for doing something he had permission to do just because people he had no control over also hopped on. 

 

From the command perspective? Noir saved the day. He saved company assets we had no other way to save. And he did so after plenty of escalation and with plenty of interaction AND with admin permission. 

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6 minutes ago, DRagO said:

Alb aswell as others agreed with the verdict. The decision was not mine alone but based on the staff consensus at the time

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You after the round proceeded to brag about it in ooc and ic aswell.

However you nitpicked the ahelp aswell and I wish you posted the full version of it, which I will do however

 

[02:29:36] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: hey, got a sec? 
[02:29:42] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: Alberyk (?) allowed me to 
[02:35:07] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: You had ahelped earlier about it, he didnt ok you detonating it with (?) innocents as collateral, did he? 
[02:35:37] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: If the innocents decided to follow the heavily armed mercenaries onto their blood-red, heavily armed ship, that's their own perogative. Their 'recruits' had already went and harmed crew before at their insistence. 
[02:37:46] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: You still just, bombed departures indiscriminately and killed people who were not involved.....as a detective, with (?) ERT on standby 
[02:38:39] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: The bomb's radius only damaged the exterior windows. It was not indscriminantly, as they shouldn't have been following the mercs onto their shuttle if they weren't directly involved at all. 
[02:39:11] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: Thats not how escalation works. Just because they follow somebody doesnt mean you can just blow them all up 
[02:39:44] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: I didn't know they were following behind. I had planted the bomb before any of the mercs got on their ship. In fact, I intended to disable the ship so they would be at the mercy of the ERT. 
[02:43:45] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: But you just said you saw them get on with (?) them. You planted it earlier but you still went through with killing innocent peopler for nothing 
[02:44:24] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: I had no idea there was a bunch of crewmembers that joined up with (?) them getting on. They were all wearing red suits. I was concerned with walking out of a hole in the window and not getting suspected of breaking into their ship 
[02:44:54] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: I saw the line of red suits piling on, and I figured things were going to go smoothly. 
[02:45:11] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: This begs the question too of why a detective is. 
[02:45:16] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: 1. Planting bombs 
[02:45:22] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: 2. (?) Can build bombs 
[02:46:50] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: The merc ship had bombs in it just sitting by the window. The bombs were planted because a group of armed men had just arrived on the station, muscled crew into giving them corporate secrets, violated multiple employee contracts, violated just about every regulation, intimidated security and the rest of the station to the point where they were all made entirely ineffective and cowering, and attacked crew and left a cargo tech hospitalized 
[02:47:16] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: So I saw the bombs and asked Alberyk (?) if I could bomb the merc ship and he said yeah 
[02:52:42] yonnimer -> bathsaltsaddict: hi i'm taking over this ticket it for now. Were the bombs connected to the switch when you found them? 
[02:53:15] bathsaltsaddict -> yonnimer: Yes. I set the timer to a minute and ten seconds and walked away. I wanted it to just disable the ship, really, but the mercs happened to pile on at just the right moment 
[02:53:28] yonnimer -> bathsaltsaddict: passing this back to queen it would seem. 
[02:55:06] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: so you are aware of the past issues involving things from power gaming, validhubnting and other similar play, correct 
[02:55:14] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: aswell as a perma ban in the past 
[02:56:35] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: This was extremely irresponsible behavior aswell as conduct on your part. Ontop of that the validhunting/ganking these guys with (?) really no sense of respect for the collateral around it 
[02:56:39] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: I am aware, but considering the fact that I told Alberyk (?) what I wanted to do and got authorization from him beforehand, I don't particularly see this as a problem issue. I had my reasons, there was proper escalation. Escalation doesn't always have to result in largescale firefights, and doing so would be suicide against the combined mercs and raiders anyways. 
[02:56:50] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: I dont feel you have 
[02:57:15] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: Learned the lesson from your past ban. As the behavior has slowly been going on over and over since it in slow amounts 
[02:57:52] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: I'm not aware of any other situations that were indicative of anything being repetitive. 
[02:58:25] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: With (?) this said, I am going to be applying a ban with a undetermined length for the time being. I would like you to await till after the new year before making any appeal as I believe you do need to sit out for abit and after a time, make a case for how you can improve over time 
[02:58:34] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: Can I get a second opinion? 
[02:59:32] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: I did get authorization from Alb to bomb the merc ship. Any collateral was entirely the assistants who willingly joined the armed, dangerous men for no other purpose than money and walked onto the ship with (?) them willingly. 
[02:59:50] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: the general consensus from staff is that this behavior has gone on for awhile and the lesson wasnt learned 
[02:59:50] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: The bomb, however, was planted before anyone walked on the ship, and as they were all in red suits I failed to notice the assistants among them. 
[03:00:27] queenofyugoslavia -> bathsaltsaddict: You may make a complaint if you feel this is a poor decision or wait till after January 1st 2019 to make a appeal 
[03:00:44] bathsaltsaddict -> queenofyugoslavia: Very well. 
 

What did I miss in the conversation that I didn't include in the OP? I probably might've missed something as I had to scroll through a lot of text to get proper screencaps, as I prefer that over straight copypasting, since it allows me to dissect things much easier. If you tell me that, I'll slip it into the OP accordingly.

And as for the 'bragging', I was quite proud of myself on how slick I was, even if it did unfortunately result in quite a few accidental deaths. Noir is a character that models itself on cliche detective movies, and as such is themselves extremely cliche, so a one-liner when they ICly didn't know about the collateral is not out there, and even if it did know, robots don't exactly have much feelings in regards to the sanctity of the dead that organics do. I take no particular pleasure in the people that died, however, but felt as if the situation was definitely worth remembering.

Edited by Bath Salts Addict
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@Alberyk @Yonnimer @EngineersDream were all involved in the discussion.

Alb allowed you to bomb the shuttle before it had people around it in this capacity. He aswell as other staff watched you wait till the group came to the shuttle before you bombed it. Has there been no notes or such in the past of warnings, aswell as the previous perma ban, this would of simply been a sec ban or such. It was agreed on that due to your history a perm ban with chance to appeal would be acceptable and I went with advice of staff

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I did allow the shuttle to be bombed at the time because this was ahelped when security was in direct conflict with the mercenaries, the crew later boarded the shuttle on their own, at this time the ticket has been closed for some minutes, and the bomb exploded shortly after killing most of them. I was under the impression that the bomb would be used solely to inflict damage against the mercenaries or their shuttle, and I did not expect the crew to wander into it for whatever reason they had at the time.

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As someone who was brained and gibbed by the hostile detective, I'll keep it short. I was in the construction level with other cats when Snowball (was that their name? some fuckin' msai.) came up and gave us free money. I was skeptical as to why until she delivered us 50 solid gold ingots. I was more receptive, the final choice of mine to go with the mercs was largely because one of us, played by @DronzTheWolf, had joined them and told us 'come with us or stay behind it's your choice.' Everyone else started going, so I dragged Valka with me. At that point, I was unaware the mercs had done really anything except slapfighting with Security, as I don't happen to be omniscient. We boarded the shuttle, I assumed the crew would just take their losses, when suddenly I was a brain. This was nothing really better than gank, and Noir has a habit of removing people from the round in such ways, and it isn't fun for anyone but him. It's especially heinous as a Detective.

'
suck it up and either observe, play another game or rejoin the round as a new character until the next one'
This is an extremely toxic mentality. Sure, losing is a part of the game. Losing is sometimes even fun. But for me atleast, I log on and I want to play a specific character, no matter how many other characters I have as backup. Getting told to 'suck it up' for being ganked by and for factors out of my control is a dick move, especially following it with 'play some1 else lmao'

Edited by ParadoxSpace
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Just now, Alberyk said:

I did allow the shuttle to be bombed at the time because this was ahelped when security was in direct conflict with the mercenaries, the crew later boarded the shuttle on their own, at this time the ticket has been closed for some minutes, and the bomb exploded shortly after killing most of them. I was under the impression that the bomb would be used solely to inflict damage against the mercenaries or their shuttle, and I did not expect the crew to wander into it for whatever reason they had at the time.

I had planted the bomb before I saw any mercs or even their recruits on the surface level. Even though I set it to a minute and ten seconds to give me time to get to a relative safe distance, I felt like it detonated far longer than a minute and ten seconds. I wasn't even intending to hurt the mercs, but let it tick down when they boarded. It was only until the end of the round did I realize that the merc's recruits were also caught in the explosion. At most it was three minutes (a minute of which was with the bomb already ticking down) rather than the twenty previously claimed as I was being extra-cautious and didn't want a merc to see me if there were any on the shuttle. I couldn't have warned the crew either, as we had established that the antags had access to all comms, and didn't want to risk them retaliating by starting a shootout in departures. I feel like it's a bit unfair to ban someone for extrinsic actions neither they nor staff could have predicted.

9 minutes ago, DRagO said:

@Alberyk @Yonnimer @EngineersDream were all involved in the discussion.

Alb allowed you to bomb the shuttle before it had people around it in this capacity. He aswell as other staff watched you wait till the group came to the shuttle before you bombed it. Has there been no notes or such in the past of warnings, aswell as the previous perma ban, this would of simply been a sec ban or such. It was agreed on that due to your history a perm ban with chance to appeal would be acceptable and I went with advice of staff

To my knowledge, notes are made whenever staff contact a player for any reason, whether said player has done something wrong or not. Again, to my knowledge, from looking at the WI my most recent warning was eight months ago, even older than the ban you're referring to, which itself is also months ago. I feel as if it's unfair to claim there's repetitious behavior here when I've never been given any indication of the sort, as well as to claim that I'm not learning from past mistakes when your only interaction with me was a decidedly negative one months ago. Before my previous ban I wouldn't have ahelped and just went ahead with the bombing on pure instinct, and maybe even have timed it to make sure the mercs were onboard.

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It's surprising to see many of the points so quickly deflected i.e. what a detective is doing setting explosives in the merc shuttle and plotting their undoing far before any sort of shootout had apparently begun, according to the summary, especially considering the aforementioned's extremely long and storied behavior of frontlining and behaving as a ruthless combatant as a security detective.

I believe Bath Salts Addict should, how one should say, 'get woke' for a moment and realize the ban wasn't placed merely because of a last straw type situation but rather that the behavior and decision-making displayed through it most likely led to a ban being administered. Might I remind you that it was your behavior alone as Noir that got the shotgun slugs and the shells removed from the standard armory, which has had a rather substantial effect on security play so far. It is not something to be proud of to be the sole reason why a feature was removed from the game, nor is it something to be proud of to detonate a bomb as it catches several antagonists and bystanders in its wake to instantly remove them from the round.

I believe there's a rule that says collateral damage is not preferred when using explosives. As in, if you didn't intend those people to die by the explosion, they were collateral.
 

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And as for the 'bragging', I was quite proud of myself on how slick I was, even if it did unfortunately result in quite a few accidental deaths. Noir is a character that models itself on cliche detective movies, and as such is themselves extremely cliche, so a one-liner when they ICly didn't know about the collateral is not out there, and even if it did know, robots don't exactly have much feelings in regards to the sanctity of the dead that organics do. I take no particular pleasure in the people that died, however, but felt as if the situation was definitely worth remembering.



This seems to be another problem endemic to you and your roleplaying in general and that's the "my character is not really required to care nor consider human factors involved because they're a cold and lifeless synthetic" card, and such judgments being made on a regular basis by you should probably start to be reviewed by the synth whitelister regarding decision-making such as this. Perhaps I'm not the only person who is very tired of seeing much of the same cold, snarky, and totally ruthless HK-47 knockoffs that will escalate to lethal given the opportunity. It is very sad to see Noir constantly fit that bill.

And, as a note. If you + your character are particularly notorious for something, you eat a ban and then stick with it for a time and get it appealed and seem like you finally reform, and then one day make a decision that looks almost identical to your previous behavior while in-character as Noir, then it will unsurprisingly seem as if nothing had changed at all, and it becomes a fair assumption again to say the behavior is then "ongoing" again.

The point of bans is to give an individual time to think on their decision-making, whether it was a mistake or simply a decision made in markedly poor judgement, and then endeavor to their absolute best ability to never repeat the outlined behavior or anything that resembles it. As per how staff tends to escalate punishments, bans tend to follow bans if they've already been tried. If severe enough, the time between two incidents probably stops becoming such a relevant factor when considering what the proper discipline would be for such an infraction.

Likewise, the braggadocio attitude with 'showing off' the wanton destruction despite the reasoning for it being under question and in doubt was perhaps not the wisest thing to do, since it characterizes your motivations as if you knew exactly what you were doing.
 

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Personally, I feel as if the community is too eager to smash the ahelp button anytime someone so much as looks at them funny, let alone kills them - antag or otherwise. This makes people who play antag and security overly-cautious and generally breeds an environment that is tense, unfriendly and outright toxic, knowing that at a moment doing the wrong thing inadvertently can make someone start seeing red in a blind seething rage. They don't ahelp out of concern for rules possibly being broken, they ahelp out of no desire other than petty vindictiveness. This is SS13. Unpredicted things happen, you're in a game where every role - up to and especially the robots - are filled out by a human. Said humans are not as infallible as some people like to believe they are, but I will go out on a limb and say that no one on this server is going out of their way to maliciously ruin as many rounds as they can. People need to stop acting like it's a personal attack on 

them anytime they get horizontal'd for any reason.



Frankly, I see nothing but irony in this entire statement. You are, effectively, complaining about others who issue complaints through adminhelps regarding their interpretation of a situation and then make such an assumption (without outright proof I might add) that the individual who dares to report your behavior is simply out to get you rather than exercising some concern regarding fair and just enforcement of the rules and properly roleplaying in-game. And then you tack on the rest of the statement with, "It's just a game, why u haff to be mad?" like the tired old meme it is used on this server to dismiss criticism of certain problematic playstyles that certain players are content to continue but ideally should be given opportunities to start thinking and improving how they play.
 

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As a whole, I think a lot of people just need to take a deep breath, step back, analyze the situation to see if anyone is truly at fault, realize it's a game, suck it up and either observe, play another game or rejoin the round as a new character until the next one. We're all guilty of this, of course, even myself, but at least make an effort to realize that no one is 

out to get you. Yes, even the person that blew your head off with a shotgun has reasons that seem sound to him for doing so. Stop wasting energy on being so goddamn angry and vindictive all the time, at least not without making an effort to figure out the justification someone might have. It's not healthy for you, as a person, and neither is it healthy for the community. SS13 might be a game about looking over your shoulder in suspicion at even your closest friends, but if we start acting that way OOCly I can assure you it isn't going to be good for anyone. It's not welcoming to new people, and it's dissuading to old-timers, and it's just exhausting having to constantly watch what you're doing, having to hear a bwoink every second and spend the next thirty minutes explaining themselves to avoid a ban just because someone got angry. I would rather sit out a round for two hours by getting killed even under dodgy terms than potentially make someone sit out the server for far longer than it took you to puff out your cheeks and smash your keyboard.



Again. It's incredible how lacking in self-awareness you are, while still dishing out yet another low blow of insisting other people (yet again, without proof) are merely irrationally angry when reporting an issue with you. It's quite disrespectful to assert this as in any way true and you're deliberately discrediting the value of other people having a say when they have a problem with your habits so that it becomes easy to justify and defend yourself.

Perhaps you should stop wasting so much time on your part and the part of other people's by constructing these elaborate strawman community members who apparently exist to permanently remove you from the server as their sole intention only. Because as of a result, you are building these hypothetical arguments out of straw, and it's too easy to see the fakeness in this.

The irony to that is that if you don't improve your behavior, permanent removal from the community would actually be enforced, considering how it seems like based on the initial post and certain replies that you have honestly retained very little about what is or what was problematic roleplay behaviors, and how you seem to take responsibility.

Edited by Scheveningen
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1 hour ago, Scheveningen said:

It's surprising to see many of the points so quickly deflected i.e. what a detective is doing setting explosives in the merc shuttle and plotting their undoing far before any sort of shootout had apparently begun, according to the summary, especially considering the aforementioned's extremely long and storied behavior of frontlining and behaving as a ruthless combatant as a security detective.

I believe Bath Salts Addict should, how one should say, 'get woke' for a moment and realize the ban wasn't placed merely because of a last straw type situation but rather that the behavior and decision-making displayed through it most likely led to a ban being administered. Might I remind you that it was your behavior alone as Noir that got the shotgun slugs and the shells removed from the standard armory, which has had a rather substantial effect on security play so far. It is not something to be proud of to be the sole reason why a feature was removed from the game, nor is it something to be proud of to detonate a bomb as it catches several antagonists and bystanders in its wake to instantly remove them from the round.

I believe there's a rule that says collateral damage is not preferred when using explosives. As in, if you didn't intend those people to die by the explosion, they were collateral.

As I explained, security and command were effectively rendered null by the combined forces of the raiders and mercs along with their fresh-faced recruits. Even with ERT (of which I think only one or two actually arrived) they severely outnumbered and outgunned the station. As much as I would have liked a good old fashioned firefight with them, it would have been a very one-sided firefight and would have likely taken place with a lot more possible collateral than a bomb confined to the antag's own ship. Is it really that far-fetched to not follow obvious bad guys onto their ship when they're giving you a choice whether you want to or not?

If you'll shelve the passive-aggression for a moment, you'll realize that I'm not the sole deciding factor of anything that happens. I know you're just grasping at straws as an excuse to pad out your post, but I'll rebuff your points all the same. I was not the sole deciding factor that got slugs and shells removed for what the devs cited as balance reasons, so stop lying and saying it is and stop bringing it up every chance you get. I will even go out on a limb and say the substantial effect that you're talking about is a net positive overall for security and antagonists. I've noticed antags are more free to pursue their gimmicks without having to resort to violence to defend themselves, and that security is more prone to parley with antagonists and attempt non-lethal capture without jumping the gun and resorting to lethals off the hop. It also incentivizes Security to wean off immediately validing antagonists and make sure their primary duty of protecting the crew is fulfilled, as cargo, science and engineering can provide them with the precious ammo they desire. This also allows players of those departments to self-regulate and deny security ammo if they come a-knocking if they feel as if things are being taken too far.

1 hour ago, Scheveningen said:

This seems to be another problem endemic to you and your roleplaying in general and that's the "my character is not really required to care nor consider human factors involved because they're a cold and lifeless synthetic" card, and such judgments being made on a regular basis by you should probably start to be reviewed by the synth whitelister regarding decision-making such as this. Perhaps I'm not the only person who is very tired of seeing much of the same cold, snarky, and totally ruthless HK-47 knockoffs that will escalate to lethal given the opportunity. It is very sad to see Noir constantly fit that bill.

And, as a note. If you + your character are particularly notorious for something, you eat a ban and then stick with it for a time and get it appealed and seem like you finally reform, and then one day make a decision that looks almost identical to your previous behavior while in-character as Noir, then it will unsurprisingly seem as if nothing had changed at all, and it becomes a fair assumption again to say the behavior is then "ongoing" again.

The point of bans is to give an individual time to think on their decision-making, whether it was a mistake or simply a decision made in markedly poor judgement, and then endeavor to their absolute best ability to never repeat the outlined behavior or anything that resembles it. As per how staff tends to escalate punishments, bans tend to follow bans if they've already been tried. If severe enough, the time between two incidents probably stops becoming such a relevant factor when considering what the proper discipline would be for such an infraction.

Likewise, the braggadocio attitude with 'showing off' the wanton destruction despite the reasoning for it being under question and in doubt was perhaps not the wisest thing to do, since it characterizes your motivations as if you knew exactly what you were doing.

What do you think makes more sense?

Robot A refraining from performing a certain action because it might make Human B sad, and the last thing they want is Human B to be sad because their relationship with Human B and how Human B perceives them is more important than fulfilling their duty and doing what they feel should be done.

Or...

Robot A performing a certain action even if they know it might make Human B sad because they feel as if it is the best possible course of action, and do not place as much value on what organics think of them because they are a robot and will continue to function normally regardless of whether Human B is going to be sad or mad at them or not.

Again, I did not intend for even antags to die and had planted the bomb before I even saw hide nor hair of the antags on the surface level, but as I watched them pile on the ship then I figuredif they just so happened to get caught in the explosion, then so be it. The additional collateral was beyond my control, and ICly the decision was made by them without any coercion from the antags. It is within Noir's character to not be reduced to a pile of tears anytime someone dies, but it is also within Noir's character to do anything it can to keep innocents, even the ones that were complacent with the antags crimes, from dying. Had it known - which it did not - that there would have been collateral, it would have warned them and tried to disable the bomb, even at risk to itself. But with that decision also comes the grey area in which therein exists the possibility that the mercs would have attempted retaliation by starting a shootout in departures, and then you have to weigh whether it is worth risking uninvolved innocents over involved not-so-innocents who willingly joined a band of vicious thugs and screwed over their coworkers for selfish reasons. Players should have relative freedom to make those decisions in a round with all the IC consequences involved unless it becomes excessive and repetitive. No one should be banned for a reasonable-albeit-poor decision with unintended effects, just like how a complete accident involving black k'ois when it's PR was first merged got a long-standing member of the community permanently banned and stripped of their staff rank. There was no malice involved, just like how there is no malice involved with me. Why is that so hard to see? I'm not the malicious, valid-hunting boogieman that you're trying to paint me as, and I don't hop on the server cackling, rubbing my hands and going "teehee time to ruin someone's day!"

I will agree with you that maybe bragging about it once on the Discord was not the smartest idea, but at the time I did not realize the gravity of the situation that I was in. And damnit, how many people can say they bombed a bunch of mercs on their own ship? Or at least think they did.

1 hour ago, Scheveningen said:

Frankly, I see nothing but irony in this entire statement. You are, effectively, complaining about others who issue complaints through adminhelps regarding their interpretation of a situation and then make such an assumption (without outright proof I might add) that the individual who dares to report your behavior is simply out to get you rather than exercising some concern regarding fair and just enforcement of the rules and properly roleplaying in-game. And then you tack on the rest of the statement with, "It's just a game, why u haff to be mad?" like the tired old meme it is used on this server to dismiss criticism of certain problematic playstyles that certain players are content to continue but ideally should be given opportunities to start thinking and improving how they play.

Considering the person I know who sent the ahelp in the first place's track record, it is not a far stretch to say they have some sort of personal vendetta considering how quick they are to rant on and on about how awful of a person I am anytime I get mentioned even in passing, although that's not what I'm trying to say here, and as usual you are purposely misconstruing statements to be passive-aggressive as you are want to do. It's not exactly a scandalous secret that people are too quick to press the ahelp button everytime they die, and unfortunately I'm just as guilty of that. Do you not agree that it's a fairer shake to step back and analyze the situation, than to impulsively bombard staff with ahelps and force them to delay the round for 20-30 minutes at the last second and then angrily take to discord if you don't feel vindicated? Because I can guarantee that if staff don't make the decisions that they get pressured to make, then they're going to get subtly bitched out in Discord.

"Maybe I died because I followed the very obvious bad guys onto their very obvious bad guy ship while dressed as one of them without really telling anyone?"

"No, it's the other person that is wrong for killing me. I will send an ahelp because how dare I die with five minutes left in the round."

1 hour ago, Scheveningen said:

Again. It's incredible how lacking in self-awareness you are, while still dishing out yet another low blow of insisting other people (yet again, without proof) are merely irrationally angry when reporting an issue with you. It's quite disrespectful to assert this as in any way true and you're deliberately discrediting the value of other people having a say when they have a problem with your habits so that it becomes easy to justify and defend yourself.

Perhaps you should stop wasting so much time on your part and the part of other people's by constructing these elaborate strawman community members who apparently exist to permanently remove you from the server as their sole intention only. Because as of a result, you are building these hypothetical arguments out of straw, and it's too easy to see the fakeness in this.

The irony to that is that if you don't improve your behavior, permanent removal from the community would actually be enforced, considering how it seems like based on the initial post and certain replies that you have honestly retained very little about what is or what was problematic roleplay behaviors, and how you seem to take responsibility.

They are free to say what they want to say in any complaint, just as they are free to make an ahelp for any reason. I will not try and deprive them of that, but is it not fair to wish decisions could be made on thought-out discussion rather than someone else's impulse? I feel as if my side and my motivations and reasons weren't properly taken into account or listened to, and I'm just as guilty of that as anyone else. On the contrary, however, I try to shy away from that on principle because I know the other person behind the screen is a fallible human being just as much as me. Now, I'm sorry that some people take exception to my very existence and I'm sorry for my actions that resulted in your grief, whether for reasons past or reasons that happened in this particular incident, but to hold onto grudges and allow those to fuel your impulses is decidedly petty, and just makes me wonder how any one individual can have so much energy to devote to such negativity. To decide you hate someone with such a seething passion because they killed you in a video game is in the same vein of doing something as shallow as gossiping about Becky at school because she wore the same dress on the same day as you but it made her look fat.

That is something I want the community to consider and shy away from, as we brutally murder each other in a spessman game. The person being brutally murdered is a human too, and so is the person doing the brutal murder. No one is out to get anyone, but I feel as if we decidedly hate each other all the same that we've long since crossed the line into being inconsiderate, and only want to seek out short-lived satisfaction for ourselves. Because if I don't get unbanned, it won't be "wow, I can't believe BSA is still allowed on the server" it'll just be "wow, I can't believe they allowed BSA to stay on the server as long as she did" or much later, "wow I can't believe Person X is still allowed on the server".

 

You know, for someone who is so against soapboxing (if the staff complaint against you in October of last year is any indication) you sure love to do it yourself on situations you have no bearings on at the slightest provocation.

Edited by Bath Salts Addict
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As the leader of the mercs that round...no, the mercs themsevles were not the violent party in conflict. The heisters had been fighting amongst themselves whilst the mercs calmly recruited people for decidedly safe jobs, claiming openly that they did not deal in blood. Security engaged the mercs later when they went to investigate the fact that the heisters had completely raided the vault without them.

 

I'm unsure what the deal is with you claiming they were murderous thugs harassing crew. If we were, we wouldn't have been able to recruit them in the first place. We (I) used exploitables to cozy up to them and find a way to appeal, before seeing the need to gear up completely because for some reason Commandnando called ert. The only head in there at any given time was Amaya Stone. Not sure what Resi's saying about securing assets.

 

Meanwhile, the heisters made off with all of your stuff and escaped, while you blew the merc's shuttle for no reason other than what I can presume is frustration of the previous round, in wich you didn't get to fight a cultist Durand that had been built too late and were very vocal about being "cock-blocked."

 

So unwarranted was the bombing and so meta was your game that you decided that the literally mist peaceful crossfire (not particularly proud of that...) In a long time was not good enough, deemed a group of people you'd never seen before as bloodthisrty thugs (the only time you left the bar was prior to the heisters fighting eachother) and perhaps even prior to one of the heisters deciding to hurt Willow Harper. I'm not saying you should have been held liable to know more about the groups, but you apparently knew enough about the group that had arrived and that they were "bloodthisty" despite never painting themselves as such. I also feel you stepped completely out of line of non-traitor noir, disregarding his usual personality in favor of causing a bang.

 

I would have not cared about this had you not then glosted so ferverently in OOC, saying it was obviously the Tajaran's faults they died and generally deciding to be a jerk about the whole situation. It was an intense moment ICly and reminded me of a scene from Gravity or perhaps the televised animated 3D starwars cartoon, but the ooc behaviour marred it farther than it ever should have been.

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2 hours ago, Bath Salts Addict said:

I had planted the bomb before I saw any mercs or even their recruits on the surface level. Even though I set it to a minute and ten seconds to give me time to get to a relative safe distance, I felt like it detonated far longer than a minute and ten seconds. I wasn't even intending to hurt the mercs, but let it tick down when they boarded. It was only until the end of the round did I realize that the merc's recruits were also caught in the explosion. At most it was three minutes (a minute of which was with the bomb already ticking down) rather than the twenty previously claimed as I was being extra-cautious and didn't want a merc to see me if there were any on the shuttle. I couldn't have warned the crew either, as we had established that the antags had access to all comms, and didn't want to risk them retaliating by starting a shootout in departures. I feel like it's a bit unfair to ban someone for extrinsic actions neither they nor staff could have predicted.

I can live with this knowlege, but it'd be better if this was your initial justification in the first place and not all this other...everything. Timers are still borked, mehinks.

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7 minutes ago, Itanimulli said:

As the leader of the mercs that round...no, the mercs themsevles were not the violent party in conflict. The heisters had been fighting amongst themselves whilst the mercs calmly recruited people for decidedly safe jobs, claiming openly that they did not deal in blood. Security engaged the mercs later when they went to investigate the fact that the heisters had completely raided the vault without them.

 

I'm unsure what the deal is with you claiming they were murderous thugs harassing crew. If we were, we wouldn't have been able to recruit them in the first place. We (I) used exploitables to cozy up to them and find a way to appeal, before seeing the need to gear up completely because for some reason Commandnando called ert. The only head in there at any given time was Amaya Stone. Not sure what Resi's saying about securing assets.

 

Meanwhile, the heisters made off with all of your stuff and escaped, while you blew the merc's shuttle for no reason other than what I can presume is frustration of the previous round, in wich you didn't get to fight a cultist Durand that had been built too late and were very vocal about being "cock-blocked."

 

So unwarranted was the bombing and so meta was your game that you decided that the literally mist peaceful crossfire (not particularly proud of that...) In a long time was not good enough, deemed a group of people you'd never seen before as bloodthisrty thugs (the only time you left the bar was prior to the heisters fighting eachother) and perhaps even prior to one of the heisters deciding to hurt Willow Harper. I'm not saying you should have been held liable to know more about the groups, but you apparently knew enough about the group that had arrived and that they were "bloodthisty" despite never painting themselves as such. I also feel you stepped completely out of line of non-traitor noir, disregarding his usual personality in favor of causing a bang.

 

I would have not cared about this had you not then glosted so ferverently in OOC, saying it was obviously the Tajaran's faults they died and generally deciding to be a jerk about the whole situation. It was an intense moment ICly and reminded me of a scene from Gravity or perhaps the televised animated 3D starwars cartoon, but the ooc behaviour marred it farther than it ever should have been.

As far as anyone was concerned (and as far as what I was told ICly) the mercs and the heisters were one in the same, basically. Or at the very least from what I gathered in snippets of conversation, one group had hired the other to provide extra security. But to say you were peaceful is a huge over-statement. Someone (no real distinction was made between mercs and heisters that round) attacked Harper, who claimed it was the merc borg and a recruited Hendricks that did it. Then, while the mercs were away from the bar, it was reported over security comms that the "red suits" were breaking into the Vault. Knowing that things were starting to escalate and that an ERT was called, I began arming up and plotting my moves when I noticed the bombs in the merc ship, and the rest is history.

It's not a stretch to assume someone is anything but peaceful - violent, even - when they march into your workplace armed to the teeth with ballistic rifles and energy weapons, intimidate command and security to the point where one officer is so scared shitless that he disarms himself and hands his gear over to said invaders, hospitalize one relatively harmless colleague over a trivial reason and break into the vault to rob company secrets and assets and will likely do the same to other stations. If their intentions were truly peaceful, they would have complied with Security and not have hamfistedly inserted themselves onto the station ready for a fight at any given moment.

It's also a broad assumption to make that I did this solely because I didn't get to fight a cult last round. Any cock-blocking I mentioned was because the roboticist that made a Durand never got to use it.

I was not intentionally rude, and if I came across that way, then I apologize, but it's a fair shake to say that they are in fact at fault for following the bad guys onto their bad guy ship on the promise of money. I didn't want to blow them up, nor would I have if I had known, but their decision to board that shuttle is what killed them ultimately. They got mad about it in OOC and I pointed it out, perhaps a bit smugly. Their defence was that "their friends were doing it" so I light-heartedly pointed out the typical adage of "if your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it?"

18 minutes ago, Itanimulli said:

I can live with this knowlege, but it'd be better if this was your initial justification in the first place and not all this other...everything. Timers are still borked, mehinks.

I'm not aware of any bug with timers, but if there is one that would explain why the bomb took so long to detonate when I set it to only a minute and ten seconds. My inability to foresee them boarding the shuttle should have been my initial justification, indeed, but there were a variety of other factors being called in to question as well, and so I feel it might have been lost in translation, so to speak. I'm not omnipotent, so I can't foresee the fact that some crew would willingly leave a relatively peaceful station that pays decently well to even the lowliest of assistants and janitors in favor of following some armed men aboard their eyesore of a ship under the pretense of getting paid.

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Hello hello, I played a heister this round who didn't quite understand Basic. One of our heisters, the M'sai that was not me (Snowflower with their ID reading 'Snowbell' because they didn't edit the agent card) started breaking into the vault after my warnings to not do so. So, my character, who was just a doctor, feared for their life via a response when ERT was called and security arming up. So she disarmed, gave her equipment to security (Noir), and warned them about people not being happy and likely getting violent over an ERT being called. Of course this was all assumption as I hadn't overheard any plans, and our M'sai wearing red-Tajara-suits likely pointed fingers at the mercenaries. It's not an unfair assumption to say confusion in the ranks happened, so the mercenaries being blamed wasn't Itanimulli's fault in any way.

 

Beyond that, though, a heister did /not/ hurt Willow Harper. Cassy Hendricks did, who was hired by the Mercenaries, along with Reaper, the Mercenary's cyborg. Being as I watched this happen with Thermals, I can attest to a 'mercenary' recruit doing it. This also pointed fingers at the mercenaries, because Harper likely reported this. She reported it to Stone, at any rate, who likely informed security. I gave up my headset at the time just after, so I can't tell you exactly. However yes, Read's M'sai who was going up and with the Mercenaries was warned by me to simply not go with them, which she didn't listen to. I had a feeling something silly was going to take place ICly, so I didn't go with them either.

 

I was trying to stall the elevator, make them wait because one had internal bleeding and hoping he'd lose enough blood to be ineffective. I'm not sure how he got IB, but he said security shot him with something, so I'd also assumed there was a firefight at one point or another that escalated the incident anyway. Gauging proper escalation off of actual action instead of intent just feels a little silly to me. It wasn't BSA's intent to murder a ton of people, and even I could've told you that from my experiences earlier in the round. If BSA was interested in valids, they'd have just shot me the moment I pulled out my gun to disarm as I kept it in my hand a little longer than I intended to as I lagged. Because when an antag draws a gun on you, it's fine to shoot them so say the rules in most situations.

 

All in all, misconception over who did what crimes where, a bomb being finicky, people boarding the shuttle at an inopportune time, and BSA saying something that could be considered snide seem to be contributors toward the action taken here. I believe it wasn't really their intent to murder six antags and four crewmembers. If it was, they'd probably have set off all three our four maxcaps inside that ship, or kept one on them and ran in to bomb the ship again afterwards to make sure no one survived. I just think it's silly we're saying this is clearly intended gank and validhunting murder. From my perspective ICly it was justified. The death could have been easily avoided had people not boarded. I'm not saying it's their fault for boarding, before that's also somehow turned against me. I'm just saying had they been thirty seconds late it wouldn't have happened. That's an extremely short time frame to permanently ban someone over.

 

And bombing the shuttle which slightly damaged yellow-dock is definitely not blowing up departures, unlike what Yugo said. It didn't damage the arrivals dock, or the main hallway, or damage the windows to it in any way. It didn't render entrance to departures vented, damaged, or otherwise, and the same with arrivals. You could freely go anywhere /but/ yellow dock. What was explained to me by the /administrators/ early in my time here, was to not do either of those things to Blue, and Red dock, but yellow dock is fair game as it doesn't connect anywhere but the main hallway and isn't required to arrive or leave. Thereby not bombing departures.

 

In the end, though, I don't really see what BSA did as wrong. I can see how it can be seen as malicious and their actions resulting in death can be seen as gank and murderbone. But intent really goes into that, and when they placed that bomb in a relatively short time frame to 1:10, it was entirely out of their hands as they ran to a safe distance. ?‍♀️

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I played Rooks, one of the mercenaries in this round. I was the mercenary that caught BSA red-handed as he came back in through the window, and we exchanged stiff pleasantries before going on our separate ways. When the bomb went off (instantly killing some of our recruits and mortally wounding myself and another mercenary: we died later on the base while the round-end was delayed) it was so obvious to me what had happened that I could only be amazed. We were hilariously outplayed, and at the same time, it was pretty clear to me that BSA would have had little to no way of knowing we would be filing into the shuttle when we did.

We did not originally intend for the peace to last so long as it did, but our mere presence (backed by the raiders) neutered any real security response, so I suppose we just ran with it. Like Itanmulli said, the mercenaries were confined to the Bar for much of the round, though I did personally do some running back and forth to medical to try and bring more people to the bar. We brought enough suits for both the raiders and the recruits. I think we had eight spares, coming onto the station. Cassy Hendricks and our borg did indeed stomp Willow Harper pretty bad, I believe the fight started over Harper refusing to turn over a medkit. I don't know, really. What I do know is that by the time we were leaving, everyone was on edge, and there had been consistent chatter on station channels to do something to try and overturn this neutering of Aurora by a band of scummy thieves. I agree with the intent that we were clearly a target; I had several weapons on me, and though I didn't really use them, I came onto the station to steal NanoTrasen employees (by force if necessary), although our methods stayed peaceful enough.

I cannot speak for BSAs past behaviour or anything regarding any gank intent. It seems ludicrous to me however, to hold someone responsible for an act that they expressely received permission for, when it escalated beyond their control. Gank intent or not. It seems extremely arbitrary to me. 

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@EJ_Denton and I will be in charge of this complaint.

 

Due to time constraints, I'll review the complaint on Saturday or Sunday. Please avoid making the complaint more complex, and get to the point with your comments, if you are involved or have something meaningful to add. All involved parties are welcomed to give their side of the story, in order to help the case.

 

See you on the weekend.

 

Edited by Juani2400
Grammaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar.
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8 hours ago, Bath Salts Addict said:

As I explained, security and command were effectively rendered null by the combined forces of the raiders and mercs along with their fresh-faced recruits. Even with ERT (of which I think only one or two actually arrived) they severely outnumbered and outgunned the station. As much as I would have liked a good old fashioned firefight with them, it would have been a very one-sided firefight and would have likely taken place with a lot more possible collateral than a bomb confined to the antag's own ship. Is it really that far-fetched to not follow obvious bad guys onto their ship when they're giving you a choice whether you want to or not?


Okay, in short, individuals having the mindset of wanting a firefight to happen while playing security is exactly a point of contention of what is wrong with certain mindsets with 'security players' right now. Much like an antagonist, you're supposed to tread extremely carefully when playing security on a heavy roleplay server rather than behaving like a bulldozer. Escalating conflict above what other characters are even able to respond to without initial conflict being undertaken, especially with explosives that can kill characters instantly, is gank, no matter how you try to paint it otherwise. Can I say with 101% certainty this situation was gank? Probably not unless I had the whole thing OBS recorded. Still, there is very little nuance to throwing a bomb in the middle of a room and setting it to blow, but there's a ton of nuance to the motivations in setting a bomb to blow, as well as the impact it eventually has. Bombs reach through multiple z-levels and cause an immense amount of destruction. A person using a bomb like this must take responsibility for any destruction or casualties they cause or else what would be the point of bombs being in the game if anyone could use them for the slightest inclination?

If shooting a merc dead for assaulting the captain is a low impact, low justification response, then using explosives tends to be high impact in the round due to the capacity for neutralizing a person's ability to roleplay. As a result, one needs a large amount of justification to set a bomb off because when you do so, you have to accept that casualties will occur and that they happened because of your decision to set the bomb. This is more about taking responsibility and not admonishing other people for being "wrong place wrong time".

"They were just there, it's not my fault, I can't control people being there despite that the placement of the bomb was going to likely kill people anyway" probably was an argument said by the Unabomber in some timeline. It doesn't admonish guilt in the slightest, because the usage of a TTV bomb in such a manner is hard to argue being anything other than intentional. Timer TTVs are far more dangerous for this reason due to what can happen on a minute timer. That and they do not actually set for a minute but for what the server counts as each individual second adding up to a minute. This leads to a lot of time dilation over time, so what could be intended as one minute may actually be two and a half. If a lot can happen in one minute, an incredible amount happens in two and a half. This isn't necessarily "timers borked" as already mentioned in the thread, it is literally just because time is counted differently by the server. Albeit, an incredibly inefficient way.

According to other people in this thread they were not "obvious bad guys" you were so quick to characterize them as. It takes an incredible amount of charm and charisma to be able to actually convince people to do things as an antagonist, and having the entire gimmick singlehandedly blown up by a single robot detective with a TTV who also bragged about doing it on discord is perhaps not a positive legacy to be remembered by. It seems you took initiative, not the antagonists. This is generally frowned upon for good reason when a non-antagonist, as being proactive in responding to antagonists leads to gank and valid-hunting. It's a very risky (in the sense of the rules and happening on a not-pleased admin, not the actual risk in playing the game) way of doing things, and being reactive is generally much better as a non-antagonist.

Again, I did not intend for even antags to die and had planted the bomb before I even saw hide nor hair of the antags on the surface level, but as I watched them pile on the ship then I figuredif they just so happened to get caught in the explosion, then so be it. The additional collateral was beyond my control, and ICly the decision was made by them without any coercion from the antags. It is within Noir's character to not be reduced to a pile of tears anytime someone dies, but it is also within Noir's character to do anything it can to keep innocents, even the ones that were complacent with the antags crimes, from dying. Had it known - which it did not - that there would have been collateral, it would have warned them and tried to disable the bomb, even at risk to itself. But with that decision also comes the grey area in which therein exists the possibility that the mercs would have attempted retaliation by starting a shootout in departures, and then you have to weigh whether it is worth risking uninvolved innocents over involved not-so-innocents who willingly joined a band of vicious thugs and screwed over their coworkers for selfish reasons. Players should have relative freedom to make those decisions in a round with all the IC consequences involved unless it becomes excessive and repetitive. No one should be banned for a reasonable-albeit-poor decision with unintended effects, just like how a complete accident involving black k'ois when it's PR was first merged got a long-standing member of the community permanently banned and stripped of their staff rank. There was no malice involved, just like how there is no malice involved with me. Why is that so hard to see? I'm not the malicious, valid-hunting boogieman that you're trying to paint me as, and I don't hop on the server cackling, rubbing my hands and going "teehee time to ruin someone's day!"



Again, when you set an explosive, you must take responsibility for whatever happens when it goes off, not too dissimilar to point blank executing an antagonist (i.e. you accept you must provide a good reasoning for why you did so if an admin tries to talk to you). You do not use a bomb and then immediately admonish yourself of any responsibility in using it. It sets a horrible precedent for what other people can do with explosives.

I'm not sure if you're well-versed in using explosives which would be surprising but not unusual - so I'm personally willing to give the benefit of believing you when you say the level of collateral wasn't intended, I'd believe anyone that says so short of a guy who's notorious for literally griefing the server since the past week or something. A major thing to learn from this is that if you set a timed explosive in an area that has potential to be populated, then announce it over the common radio to protect the best interests of any hapless crewmembers walking by. In this way you take responsibility for the act while also taking another measure of positive proactivity within a greater interest than just yourself and what you want to do.

Another thing about the justification bit: I dislike Noir and his personality because it lends itself to decision-making that particularly lacks in interesting... well, nuance, really, that is a word I'll be overusing. It isn't this way all the time, but "cold, dark and handsome synthetic" tends to make decisions like "cold, dark and brutally efficient decisiveness." While I don't mind characters being quite competent and there being a competitive element between antagonist and non-antagonist at times for everyone to be at least trying to play at their best if there's no trauma to deal with (simply because it makes the game tense and more fun), the problem with synthetics in general is that they cheat and don't have to really experience trauma or revisit their own actions in a light of "right" and "wrong." A synthetic does not get this train of thought and makes decisions that are automatically "right" to the character.
It's boring yet has the potential to be the opposite of constructive, in short, but that's my opinion.

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Considering the person I know who sent the ahelp in the first place's track record, it is not a far stretch to say they have some sort of personal vendetta considering how quick they are to rant on and on about how awful of a person I am anytime I get mentioned even in passing, although that's not what I'm trying to say here, and as usual you are purposely misconstruing statements to be passive-aggressive as you are want to do. It's not exactly a scandalous secret that people are too quick to press the ahelp button everytime they die, and unfortunately I'm just as guilty of that. Do you not agree that it's a fairer shake to step back and analyze the situation, than to impulsively bombard staff with ahelps and force them to delay the round for 20-30 minutes at the last second and then angrily take to discord if you don't feel vindicated? Because I can guarantee that if staff don't make the decisions that they get pressured to make, then they're going to get subtly bitched out in Discord.

"Maybe I died because I followed the very obvious bad guys onto their very obvious bad guy ship while dressed as one of them without really telling anyone?"

"No, it's the other person that is wrong for killing me. I will send an ahelp because how dare I die with five minutes left in the round."



Say what you want about the one person who has a track record. It is ultimately fallacious to extend that definition to anyone other than that person with the track record for doing so. Just because one person has a desire to be a dick when using a report function does not automatically mean anyone else using that report function is also a dick. That is why your argument is fallacious, because you tried to apply it to a "you people" statement. It is insulting and ridiculously disrespectful to the people who value the rules being enforced for higher reasons than one person having a personal vendetta with you.

It's a fairer shake to try and think in all circumstances, before and after something happens. It helps bring clarity to the overarching past, present and what one intends on doing moving forward to the future. Reports are a measure of wanting to take action when one feels like the rules were ignored when a decision was made in IC or OOC. Much like anything, if you have a good case pointing in the direction that someone is misusing the report function to carry out a grudge against you, compile the evidence and submit it to a staff member.
 

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They are free to say what they want to say in any complaint, just as they are free to make an ahelp for any reason. I will not try and deprive them of that, but is it not fair to wish decisions could be made on thought-out discussion rather than someone else's impulse? I feel as if my side and my motivations and reasons weren't properly taken into account or listened to, and I'm just as guilty of that as anyone else. On the contrary, however, I try to shy away from that on principle because I know the other person behind the screen is a fallible human being just as much as me. Now, I'm sorry that some people take exception to my very existence and I'm sorry for my actions that resulted in your grief, whether for reasons past or reasons that happened in this particular incident, but to hold onto grudges and allow those to fuel your impulses is decidedly petty, and just makes me wonder how any one individual can have so much energy to devote to such negativity. To decide you hate someone with such a seething passion because they killed you in a video game is in the same vein of doing something as shallow as gossiping about Becky at school because she wore the same dress on the same day as you but it made her look fat.

That is something I want the community to consider and shy away from, as we brutally murder each other in a spessman game. The person being brutally murdered is a human too, and so is the person doing the brutal murder. No one is out to get anyone, but I feel as if we decidedly hate each other all the same that we've long since crossed the line into being inconsiderate, and only want to seek out short-lived satisfaction for ourselves. Because if I don't get unbanned, it won't be "wow, I can't believe BSA is still allowed on the server" it'll just be "wow, I can't believe they allowed BSA to stay on the server as long as she did" or much later, "wow I can't believe Person X is still allowed on the server".



A lot of these two paragraphs is parroting what was already said in the main OP at the very bottom. Before I end on a particularly amusing note, I believe the most you should've really earned was a warning. Simply on principle of making people think about their particularly destructive decisions whether they think they were in the right or not so that it can advise them to refine their technique with better precision and finesse in the future. The justification for detonating the bomb is not per se wrong, but it's the rejection of personal responsibility that you had anything to do with the detonation of the bomb and the collateral that happened. There's a difference between "oh shit I opened a door to a place I didn't know was even vented and my buddy flew out the airlock" collateral and "I set a bomb without telling anyone it was live and it killed at least one person" type collateral. The former is collateral of either an incompetent or an innocent kind, depending on one's viewpoint. The latter can only be characterized as one with very specific destructive intent and with destructive consequences.
 

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You know, for someone who is so against soapboxing (if the staff complaint against you in October of last year is any indication) you sure love to do it yourself on situations you have no bearings on at the slightest provocation.



Firstly, what was the last two paragraphs in your main post to you, then? Do you have this level of confirmation bias that you can recuse yourself of writing that up while accusing other people of doing the same? Either we're both guilty of it and it apparently matters or we're not guilty of it and it doesn't matter.

Secondly, it's the holiday season and I'm going to let that second jab slide no matter how malicious or personally motivated it might be. I get it's likely because you feel particularly persecuted for eating a ban that I would personally agree was too much in this instance, but you felt the need to reference that to fulfill some "gotcha" meter, yet I'm certain anyone can compare the two threads and find no comparison between that situation and that one from 14 months ago, if we also ignore the amount of time between then and now and the likelihood that referencing such a case holds zero relevance and does not undermine a single argument levied against you.

Thirdly, I get it. You feel targeted and mistreated because you ate a ban when you feel like you should not have. Perhaps it should be no surprise to me that you're being all sassy about this, but you look less like a person who has well-reasoned points and justification for their decisions and more like someone who has a bone to pick when you establish sweeping generalized statements about how the community uses the report function, how they respond to conflict and also going for low blows to, presumably, make people feel like shit for having an issue with you. Because that whole, "I'm going to put this person into a box and kick the box as often as I can" only creates a situation where you deliberately craft an argument where you think you're 'winning' it, all the while ignoring that the point of a discussion is to ultimately learn something new and learn how to do it.

Edited by Scheveningen
quotes suck
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As much as I love Noir ICly and such, I really cannot say I agree with a detective arming a bomb on a antags shuttle. I for one don't think the permission should have been given in the first place, but I wasn't there to weigh in at the time. Just because arming a bomb in game is super simple because of the mechanics doesn't mean just every Joe Schmoe knows how to do it, arguably the only type of person who should would be a Phoron Researcher/Scientist. They may have been already made, but the fact your character would know the right amount of time, settings, and how to even arm it without risking blowing it up is pushing it a little too far. People have been warned and banned for the same exact situation in the past, so I really don't agree with what happened here, but that is my two cents.

 

This is along the same idea as to why not every Joe and Schmoe can use RnD computers/Autolathes, and Cloning pods.

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1 hour ago, Scheveningen said:

snip

I have a lot I want to say to this, but Juani asked to keep things relatively simple and not clog the thread with the discussions of people not involved. If you want, I can discuss your points via Discord.

43 minutes ago, ToasterStrudel said:

As much as I love Noir ICly and such, I really cannot say I agree with a detective arming a bomb on a antags shuttle. I for one don't think the permission should have been given in the first place, but I wasn't there to weigh in at the time. Just because arming a bomb in game is super simple because of the mechanics doesn't mean just every Joe Schmoe knows how to do it, arguably the only type of person who should would be a Phoron Researcher/Scientist. They may have been already made, but the fact your character would know the right amount of time, settings, and how to even arm it without risking blowing it up is pushing it a little too far. People have been warned and banned for the same exact situation in the past, so I really don't agree with what happened here, but that is my two cents.

 

This is along the same idea as to why not every Joe and Schmoe can use RnD computers/Autolathes, and Cloning pods.

The secondary purpose of Toxins is to produce bombs for the mining team (as if they need it these days, though) is it not? I don't see how complex a timer attached to a pre-made bomb really needs to be. Feasibly, as far as I know, there are no other "settings" a timed bomb would really need when it's something that serves only one purpose, which is to blow up. Really, I don't see it any different from an egg timer. In fact, people make bombs with egg timers. If they can make bombs with egg timers, I don't see how a timed bomb is so incredibly complex to operate. Set timer, toss bomb in, run like hell.

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Aww, yes. R a n t  T i m e, don't worry it won't be 8 pages long this time but here are my two cents:


I played Poison, the notorious, annoying cheap JC Denton knockoff raider with the shitty Cyber RIG who tried to annoy and distract as much people in the most obnoxious way possible (I try to avoid conflict since I am unrobust as feck) in which I succeeded, in my opinion. And reading all this I would say that people getting killed by the bomb was an accepted but a, a) not unreasonable and b) not really forseeable thing. The reason why we bailed so fast in the end was because we heard that an ERT was coming. And even though we knew OOCly that only 1 sad ghost (I think it was Doxx) was ready to rambo up we ICly thought it may have been a ruse, because with such a large raider party onboard NT would send the worst they have so we decided to bail right fucking now. If we would've decided to meta/power/whatever-game and stayed maybe no one would've died since one ERT Trooper vs. eight red-suit bois, who would win?

But all this whole thing is worrying to me. The argument that "not only one staff member was involved in this decision" even more so. I would've never dreamed that such an action would result in a permanent ban, in my opinion this is absolutely unreasonable, no matter the notes on his ckey. I am very, very, very sure that BSA did not intend to kill these people, rather trap them or have them circumvent the station to the raider shuttle instead. If the bomb timers are borked - not BSA's fault. He couldn't know that each and every Merc right fucking now decides to bail instanly - not BSA's fault. Yellow Dock is not arrivals/departures - there is just no ground to argue on this. He got permission to bomb the shuttle - no restrictions to this permission was made, again not BSA's fault for an admin to not be clear.

It is worrying how it seems like everyone insta smashes F1 when they get killed. Sometimes you're just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Death drives the round. Stress drives the round. I personally cannot understand how you can be so exceptional salty when getting killed, when it's non-canon anyway. It happens. There are so many ways to still participate in the round, even when dead. In this case the round ended 5 minutes later anyway (excluding the end of round delay) - when you cannot wait 5 minutes until you play again....then I do not know what to say. I got "ganked", too in the past, where I got monologued for 30 seconds and my throat sliced by some arm blades, for example. I was just too curious for my own good in that situation. My own fault. I do not say you can't or should not be salty when you die, but ahelping every. goddamn. death. is childish and has a variety of negative side effects. For example: Discouraging players from playing antag at all, scaring off new players (to the server or the game at all). Everyone can end up on the recieving end from time to time. It. Happens. Especially in non-canon antag rounds.

edit1: Also, smashing numbers into a keypad to arm a bomb is really no witchcraft, even the most braindead assisstant could do it, ICly.

edit2: Bragging is apparently a punishable offense, too?

 

A permanent ban is.......I am sorry, I don't want to attack someone but the ban is ridiculous, almost silly I would say. A permaban is the hardest punishment available - and all that for detonating a bomb? Disproportional is a gentle way to put it.


 
Edited by KingOfThePing
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12 hours ago, ToasterStrudel said:

As much as I love Noir ICly and such, I really cannot say I agree with a detective arming a bomb on a antags shuttle. I for one don't think the permission should have been given in the first place, but I wasn't there to weigh in at the time. Just because arming a bomb in game is super simple because of the mechanics doesn't mean just every Joe Schmoe knows how to do it, arguably the only type of person who should would be a Phoron Researcher/Scientist. They may have been already made, but the fact your character would know the right amount of time, settings, and how to even arm it without risking blowing it up is pushing it a little too far. People have been warned and banned for the same exact situation in the past, so I really don't agree with what happened here, but that is my two cents.

 

This is along the same idea as to why not every Joe and Schmoe can use RnD computers/Autolathes, and Cloning pods.

I have to chime in on this despite not being involved.
Arming and triggering a standard explosive device (if it is premade) is not a very complex operation.
If it were, we wouldn't have a problem with suicide bombers and other terrorists that use explosive devices.
Usually it boils down to sending a electrical signal to a trigger mechanism.
That signal can be generated by pushing a button, a timer that runs out or almost any other assembly that can emit a electronic signal based on some condition.

Making it, on the other hand side, is where the complexity lies and there I would agree that only scientists should be able to do it (icly) unless its something as simple as a igniter attached to a fuel tank.

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Once again, and for the last time, I will ask all of the people posting on this thread, to remain on-topic, leaving unrelated complaints against the reporting player, the community as a whole or completely unrelated questions out of this topic and move them to the appropriate sections of the forums.

 

This is a complaint against a member of staff, due to a potentially unfair punishment. If you have nothing to add about the situation that led to the ban, or about the staff member, I will ask you to remain as a mere spectator.

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Staff Complaint Rules

  • The General Forum Rules and Server Rules apply
  • Only post if involved or you have something to contribute. If you are not a moderator or administrator and were not involved in the incident(s) referred to, you may not post or reply to a staff complaint regarding said incident(s). It is permissible, however, to provide testimony regarding a staff member's behavior backed by proof, in the form of screenshots or logs, or as a witness of some form that can (respectfully) verify/refute any claims made
  • Stay on topic, this means that the posts should be constructive and focus on the complaint itself only. Any off-topic post made will be removed and met with a reminder to remain on topic.
  • Do not use ad hominem. This means do not attack a person's character (character in this case meaning the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual). You are expected to argue the presented ideas, not the person. If someone were to attack you, don’t take matters into your own hands, report it to us.
  • No flame wars. No trolling. Self-explanatory.
  • After 24 hours of opening a complaint, if there’s no response, you are free to bump it.
  • DO NOT MAKE A STAFF COMPLAINT WHILE A ROUND IS STILL GOING. This constitutes as IC in OOC, wait for the round to end. This only applies if the request is related to an ongoing round.
  • Use the specified Complaint Format

This will be the final warning before handing out punishments for it, and before deleting any topics that do not comply with the rules stated above.

Thank you for your cooperation.

PS: Initially, the complaint will be reviewed on Saturday. The verdict can be expected to be posted that same day, or the next one.

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Alright, sorry for the delay. Juani and I have had time to look through the logs, go through the additional information, and discuss the complaint.

I want to start by saying that BSA's IC reasoning for detonating the bomb to disable the merc's ship is logical but not necessarily realistic. Both Juani and I agree that this is not something a detective should be doing without extreme need regardless of how simplistic the activation of the bomb is.

Now, permission for the bombing was given at a time when no one else was near the ship and collateral damage would be low. Timestamps show that approximately five minutes had elapsed between when permission was given and the explosion itself. I spoke to Skull regarding the timestamps possibly being distorted/delayed but he assured me they are taken in real time. It is possible that this was all simply due to unfortunate timing but many of BSA's actions and comments (IC, OOC, and in discord after) raise a lot of red flags. He also has many comments, warnings, and bans from multiple staff members regarding similar behavior.

All things considered, Juani and I have agreed that we will be reducing the perma-ban to a week-long security ban which will expire on December 23rd.

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