Yield Declarations

[Conspiir]

I've been wanting to make this for a while (since BRAINOS mentioned it last summertime) and almost did when we added a 3rd cargo tech slot. In the end, it was an actual IC conversation that made me finally do it. 

 

Now to get the bias card out of the way: yes, I play a lot of mining. I enjoy it a lot. But I also play cargo techs and a Quartermaster. Right now, it's expected that miners are the ones that fill out yield reports. This does not make economic sense in ANY capacity. I propose we shift the responsibility of filling yield reports over to cargo technicians and the quartermaster instead of the miners themselves.

 

Why shouldn't miners be responsible for what they bring in? Why cargo techs?

 

-Cargo technicians have access to the material stacking room (but NOT mining proper). Why would they ever need that if miners are supposed to be filling out reports and bringing the crate out?

-Miners are the ones making the credits. Time is money! They should be maximizing the amount of time on the asteroid digging up gold! and it's mine, mine, MINE! materials, not checking boxes!

-There are three cargo technicians whose job it is to sort the warehouse, collect bounties, and take orders. Generally, for those that don't play cargo, it goes like this: At the start of the round, one cargo tech sorts the warehouse. They are usually done after ~20 minutes. They then go out and help the other techs collect any bounties. In between this, a chef might order chickens or something. After they've collected whatever bounties they could, it's time to sit around in the lobby or the bar and occasionally move crates.

 

How would this change affect the current status quo?

 

I believe it will work something like this:

 

At the start of the round, one cargo tech sorts the warehouse. They are usually done after ~20 minutes. Miners will come in very soon after that and that cargo tech can fill out the report, then they (or the miner themselves, if they want something from science) can deliver that first load to science while the other techs collect any bounties. After that's done, they can go help collect bounties. In between this, a chef might order chickens or something. After they've collected whatever bounties they could, it's time to sit around in the lobby or the bar and occasionally move crates and filling out the miner's yields.

 

But, what if there's only one person working in cargo?

 

Well. Miners could still be nice and fill out the report. Or... no report could be filled at all, which is what usually happens when there's no one there to say "fill out the paper."

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

We should delete yield declarations entirely. Miners know what they produced and we can ask them.

[Kappa]

2 hours ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

We should delete yield declarations entirely. Miners know what they produced and we can ask them.

If you don't like paperwork then don't play in a HRP server. That's all I can say. In real life, amount of materials mined from the asteroid are really needed to get statistics, and percentages of Science exploitation of those.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

23 minutes ago, Kappa said:

In real life, amount of materials mined from the asteroid are really needed to get statistics, and percentages of Science exploitation of those.

To what end? What analysis do you often see? Can you describe how the yield declaration has improved the experiences of players?

Edited April 22, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[Kappa]

4 minutes ago, Senpai Jackboot said:

To what end? What analysis do you often see? Can you describe how the yield declaration has improved the experiences of players?

It's an analysis you don't see, its hypothetical and it would be done by Central Command workers. In roleplay you have to imagine many things. All in the game is not meant to be funny, some things are there to create ambient, context and roleplay. 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

4 minutes ago, Kappa said:

It's an analysis you don't see, its hypothetical and it would be done by Central Command workers. In roleplay you have to imagine many things. All in the game is not meant to be funny, some things are there to create ambient, context and roleplay.  

That's a very good point. In roleplay it's useful to play pretend. Why don't we pretend that I filled out a yield declaration, and you pretend to read it?

[Kappa]

Just now, Senpai Jackboot said:

That's a very good point. In roleplay it's useful to play pretend. Why don't we pretend that I filled out a yield declaration, and you pretend to read it?

Cause that is included in game. It would be nice to have more things added, but let's use what we have.

[VTCobaltblood]

Why can't we pretend that an automatized, digital report is sent from the stacking machine to Central? Surely it wouldn't be hard to come up with such a system when goddamned AIs exist? It's just a counter of mass and amount of sheets, no difficult computing here. And it sure is better than having cargo techies slowly count it and writing it out in paper.

[Scheveningen]

1 hour ago, VTCobaltblood said:

Why can't we pretend that an automatized, digital report is sent from the stacking machine to Central? Surely it wouldn't be hard to come up with such a system when goddamned AIs exist? It's just a counter of mass and amount of sheets, no difficult computing here. And it sure is better than having cargo techies slowly count it and writing it out in paper.

 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I would be happy if the smelter console printed out how much it has smelted so far.

[Doxxmedearly]

We could argue that a paper report is better for on-station personnel to check productivity. There's reason for it to be there, though I admit I see nothing wrong with the idea of pretending one was automatically filed with central. Though on-site managers are usually the ones expected to gather productivity crunch numbers and submit them to corporate, so I can see a use in having the station collect and file yields.

JB's last idea isn't a bad one, either. The stacking machine counts and organizes the product. Why not have a button that just says "Print Report" and have a yield completed that just needs names and a signature?

[MarauderW]

I fully support the above features for mining. While I understand the need for YR's, I have to right-click and count them by... hand? We need to be more streamlined.

[Conspiir]

To think, I thought "Telling people we should do away with the report" would be too radical with how heavily its pushed ICly lately.

 

I do believe there needs to be some sort of accountability. When you send materials to CentComm, you get a report for how much each part of what you sent was worth, which works fine for accountability there. But some way of covering someone's butt when a person says "Mining is working" might be needed beyond that. Proof, if you will, beyond the physical materials themselves. I believe that's the intention of the Yield Report as-is (it's actually a pretty bad form right now. Poorly organized. It has reinforced glass sheets on it. You can't even smelt those--you have to combine them by hand!)

 

I do like the idea of an automatic form (This would be a mechanical change however, and not merely a policy shift.) I was considering "It should print when the points are collected", but the points are a reflection of what's smelted, not what is stacked (i.e. the stacker could still be processing even if the smelter is done). A 'print report' button on the stacker would take some thinking. To make the report, the stacker has to count what's been ejected, but does it count what's still in the stacker as well? And how do you make it not count materials already printed on someone else's form? Would it just keep a running tally instead of individual yields?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

A running tally would be more practical and useful.

[Chada1]

Can't a running tally be very easily implementable in the foundry proper? This could probably be automated!

[ben10083]

This policy suggestion thread has gone from it's original idea of having CT doing the declarations to becoming a regular suggestion on reworking declarations due to hijacking, please keep on topic and make your own suggestion in you wish to continue your idea.

I like the idea of having CTs will out the Yield Declaration, gives them more stuff to do and allows the miner to work sooner and therefore be more productive.

[Jessica_Stark]

As someone who's been doing a lot of mining, I definitely support either moving the report to the CTs, or automating it entirely. Especially on big hauls, it takes forever to right click on pile of materials, wait ten seconds for the context menu to load, Count how many stacks of various things there are, go back to the form, enter stuff, Wait ten more seconds to double check your numbers, and then finally shove the crate outside. Some of the nicer QMs will already do it for you if you bring up the excuse of paperwork taking time away from mining, since you have to sit there while the stacker runs, and wait for all the steel to finish slowly smelting its way out. 

[sonicgotnuked]

Fucking: Why.

Why are YD suddenly becoming the great massive push of "We need you to sit around for [x] amount of time and tally up all the crap you mined" This is perhaps some of the most tedious paperwork there is in the game and I've done a great share of it ranging from captain, HoP, IAA, RD, etc. Why don't we push paper work for engineerings every minor change on the station? Why don't we fill out station repair paperwork. Because its boring and tedious. "This is HRP" shouldn't be the excuse to sit around and do mind numbing amounts of YDs on every little thing of ore you mine. It's a game.

 

Like engineering and repair paperwork, its more important to actually fix the massive hole in the station then it is to worry about some paper someone throws into a filing cabinet somewhere. I would personally care more about my ores getting to science at a faster rate. 

Of all the time I've been here, yes, there has been some who push it, but it never becomes a big meme. If diamonds suddenly turn up missing, then ask mining. I'm sure they are willing to give you an estimate.

 

I understand there is some use to it, but please, if you are the QM, just do it yourself if you like it that much.

Edited April 23, 2019 by sonicgotnuked

[Mofo1995]

Paperwork is A-okay with me. I do it all the time at work so it's just second nature, quick and easy and harmless. But even I have to say Yield Declaration is a totally useless form. Who needs it and why? What benefit is there to having it? Is cargo keeping a perpetual inventory on their mining work? Why? Any ol miner could just pocket extra diamonds and file the declaration fraudulently anyways. Automating it would be cool, but I really don't see why we even really need to keep the form. Back when I played miner I filed them because a common QM player at the time wanted it but he was a bro about it and approached it like a good leader and [not] a demanding boss, but had he been a freak about it I woudl've gladly been indignant and shrugged off the unnecessary duty.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Mofo1995

[Alberyk]

I am also not a big fan of the declarations, I would be fully in favor of removing them. Also, could just be a function in the stacking machine.

[Flamingo]

I don’t think they add very much to the game that couldn’t be handed off to the smelting or stacking machines. Could just have them print the yield declaration on command, already filled out. Then you just sign it. 

 

Fine with removing or reworking them. 

[Soultheif96]

I am for removing or reworking the form.

As Alberyk suggested, it would be beneficial to have the form be printed via stacking machine sorter. It would count and relay the data to the form, upon printing, it would reset the numbers and begin the process. This way, miners can just put the name(s) in, sign it, stick it into the crate, and never bother with it again.

[Flamingo]

I imagine if this was implemented that stats could be collected per round as well. 

[ben10083]

Yeah I am ok with it being automatically tallied and printed, allows people to keep track of mining yields far more effectively than a miner who has a decent chance to mess up counting.

[Asheram]

And despite what people say, the counting is rather cumbersome. Signing paperwork is fine, counting and filling in yield forms are not.