Remove lungs exploding for dumb reasons

[Pratepresidenten]

So we all know and love when your lungs ruptures from your O2 tank running out.. In stable atmosphere.

There are numerous reasons why this is retarded and makes no sense.

Your mask is not AIR TIGHT and you'd have to be pretty fucking determined to breathe so hard you rip a hole in your lungs when oxygen is lacking.

Putting on a soft, void and rigsuit indoors does not obliterate your lungs, and by the mask logic this should definately happen.
 

So my suggestion is to replace this idiotic feature with something more sensible. Like.. Accumulating CO2 poisoning if your tank runs out, causing you to pass out and die to oxyloss/brain damage, like it would "realistically".
Oooor.. Just have the tank be voided and you start to breathe in whatever is in the area, be it air, phoron or THE VOID.

Or even better: If you're in any kind of suit (Suit+helmet on), you die to CO2 build, and if you're without a suit, you start breathing whatever is or isnt in the room.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

How does the mask work in a vacuum if its not air tight?

[Butterrobber202]

Probably the difference is pressure would seal it to your face.

[Zundy]

It doesn't matter if it's air tight or not. When the canister runs out you just can't breathe from it, it doesn't suddenly create a reversal in pressure and pop your lungs. When my deodorant runs dry it doesn't cause a vacuum to occur in my bathroom, rupturing my soft tissues until my wife can give me a plaster and a juice box. Just make it so you begin to breathe the surrounding atmosphere and if that is THE VOID then so be it lung popping gods. Ins'Void

[Jessica_Stark]

What Zundy said. Gas only tries to equalize pressure, not totally travel. The only way that an actual gas tank would work like they do in game was if it somehow had a tiny compressor in it that was actually able to reach an appreciable portion of vacuum, and your mask had a one hundred percent efficient exhaust valve. In reality, when your tank hits the same pressure as inside your mask, it simply stops feeding. I'm pretty sure the emergency style breath masks are a lot more like what a fighter pilot wears, with an exhaust valve that only opens during the exhale cycle, and only until the pressure inside the mask hits the pressure level of the oxygen feed coming in. 

[Conspiir]

So what I'm hearing is multiple steps, let me see if I got this:

• Tanks should stop working when they reach lowest safest breathing pressure (i.e. do not keep going until they reach 0 and you pop a lung)
  • This can be explained by some kind of automatic safety turn-off, if needed? It would make no sense to create reverse pressure in a tank.
• When a tank reaches the Safety Pressure and the breather is not in a spacesuit and in atmosphere
  • Breather is totally fine as they just breathe the atmosphere
• When a tank reaches the Safety Pressure and the breather is not in a spacesuit and in dangerous atmosphere (e.g. phoron)
  • Breather breathes in the atmosphere (e.g. phoron) and takes appropriate effects
• When a tank reaches the Safety Pressure and the breather is in a spacesuit
  • Slow CO2 poisoning manifesting as a slow suffocation--but not the lung-popping type

Edited May 13, 2019 by Conspiir

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Makes sense. Co2 suffocation would be better than lung popping. 

[Pratepresidenten]

Conspiir pretty much nailed it. My vision!

[Skull132]

The reason why your lungs pop is because it is possible to drain a tank to near vacuum just by breathing through it. If it were an air mix, you'd probably die of suffocation first, as the oxygen level depletes in the tank. But with a pure O2 tank, you just exhaust the entire tank and boom, done. No reverse pressure, just powerful enough lungs to consume all of the pressure within the tank.

RE co2 poisoning. Humans do not produce enough co2 for it to matter before you die from a lack of O2, even if there was no vacuum. It's also questionable whether a true gas exchange actually takes place with internals. It probably doesn't.

I would also caution against explicit conditions like "when wearing a space suit" and "when in a breathable atmosphere". It tends to lead to hard coding. It should either be all manual, as it is now, or all automatic, meaning you drop the mask if it is not sufficient. But the latter quickly becomes a bad idea if the issue of the vacuum is fixed. Namely, how do we determine a bad gas mixture.

So, IMO, the only thing that should be modified is the fact that you can casually create a vacuum by breathing out all of the O2 from a tank, and also implementing meaningful gas exchange. Where you breathe from should still be a manual decision.

[Screemers]

Yeah, low level tanks should create asphyxiation damages at worst but not popping lungs like the person is suddenly in open space.

Also, on a shorter term that is easier to code, the emergency tanks provided to everyone and in lockers should be full instead or nearly empty. That will maybe not stop lungs to pop, but it will for sure prevent a few of them.

[Scheveningen]

Lung collapse by proxy of internals tank happens because... it's a little complicated, but I'll simplify as best as I can. There are two states of breathing:

1. Breathe by atmosphere
2. Breathe by internals

A.) What's the atmosphere? It's the large native environment in which you're either able or not able to breath from. Normally these areas have large amounts of oxygen that are constantly refilled by atmospherics. They have a large metric amount of gas in their area (like, thousands of oxygen tanks crammed into one area), ergo you can normally breathe in it for months before the source starts to get to dangerously low levels, if you're the only person that lives in the atmosphere.
B.) What are internals? They're an extremely compartmentalized, remote ability to breathe a very specific kind of atmosphere. You breathe straight from a small container instead of a large room being constantly refilled. If your tank is empty, you're essentially breathing in a vacuum. Which is to say, not breathing. At all.

In both cases, however, should the pressure of breathable air drop to 0, your lungs would normally collapse, nearly instantly, if the pressure change differential is severe enough. 100->0 is sudden enough to cause some serious damage to your lungs because one's body is definitely not well-adjusted to the trauma instantly suffering asphyxiation. 

Because of this, I argue in favor of the status quo and the current working method of preventative engaging of internals when necessary. It should never be used in a manner that is reactive only, but if sudden decompression happens due to factors out of your control, well, you should put internals on but accept the consequences. In the inverse, when you knowingly try to enter a vacuum, your first decision should be to enable the internals to prevent any problems with your lungs. It's realistic, practical, and simulates the dangerous of deadly atmosphere pretty well. It creates challenge and an air of lethality for making small mistakes. Such mistakes should be that punishing, because otherwise space is not very dangerous when the mechanics for surviving it are forgiving.

[ben10083]

8 hours ago, Scheveningen said:

Lung collapse by proxy of internals tank happens because... it's a little complicated, but I'll simplify as best as I can. There are two states of breathing:

1. Breathe by atmosphere
2. Breathe by internals

A.) What's the atmosphere? It's the large native environment in which you're either able or not able to breath from. Normally these areas have large amounts of oxygen that are constantly refilled by atmospherics. They have a large metric amount of gas in their area (like, thousands of oxygen tanks crammed into one area), ergo you can normally breathe in it for months before the source starts to get to dangerously low levels, if you're the only person that lives in the atmosphere.
B.) What are internals? They're an extremely compartmentalized, remote ability to breathe a very specific kind of atmosphere. You breathe straight from a small container instead of a large room being constantly refilled. If your tank is empty, you're essentially breathing in a vacuum. Which is to say, not breathing. At all.

In both cases, however, should the pressure of breathable air drop to 0, your lungs would normally collapse, nearly instantly, if the pressure change differential is severe enough. 100->0 is sudden enough to cause some serious damage to your lungs because one's body is definitely not well-adjusted to the trauma instantly suffering asphyxiation. 

Because of this, I argue in favor of the status quo and the current working method of preventative engaging of internals when necessary. It should never be used in a manner that is reactive only, but if sudden decompression happens due to factors out of your control, well, you should put internals on but accept the consequences. In the inverse, when you knowingly try to enter a vacuum, your first decision should be to enable the internals to prevent any problems with your lungs. It's realistic, practical, and simulates the dangerous of deadly atmosphere pretty well. It creates challenge and an air of lethality for making small mistakes. Such mistakes should be that punishing, because otherwise space is not very dangerous when the mechanics for surviving it are forgiving.

Internals would not go from 100-0 pressure realistically, it would drop to 0 eventually, but gradually.

[Scheveningen]

Realistic as it gets unless someone wants to rewrite the behavior into gradually increasing magnitude of asphyxiation scaling with gradually depleting internals.

[TheOrleans]

I've laughed so hard during this post, trying to imagine someone trying to breathe so hard that his lung pops

The system is so stupid, just change it please xD +1

[LorenLuke]

Three code changes-

Make it so that lungs rupture with a greater than 90kPa difference between breaths.

Make it so that lungs use the max of exterior atmo and internals pressure in use for the pressure calculation.

Make an exception for pressure suits.

[Skull132]

3 hours ago, LorenLuke said:

Make it so that lungs use the max of exterior atmo and internals pressure in use for the pressure calculation.

This makes the use of internals to protect against unsavory atmospheres pointless. And exceptions for gas masks or the like end us up in exception city. Which is not a good place to be.

3 hours ago, LorenLuke said:

Make an exception for pressure suits.

Exception city aaaaaa.

Teal deer: I think that adding an n-amount of exceptions to this system would:

• make it dumb to maintain code wise;
• make it difficult to handle and perceive the mechanics. Specifically in the sense of you gaining an appreciation for when you are running on internals, and when you are not. Specific conveniance as the cost of general uniformity tends to be bad game design.

[LorenLuke]

35 minutes ago, Skull132 said:

This makes the use of internals to protect against unsavory atmospheres pointless.

I didn't say you breathe in external atmospheric air, but just that the pressure that the Life() proc (or whatever handles lung damaging) uses when determining whether to shred someone's insides is based off the maximum of the two. If you have no internals, then that's the maximum of 0 and Atmo. If you have internals, then it's the maximum of the internal pressure and the atmospheric pressure.

Having lung damage being from a pressure gradient would be a solution, I just worry about edge cases of having your lungs sucked out through a breath mask when you open a low pressure bottle.

[Carver]

I've always considered the ease at which lungs pop in unrealistic situations to be an absolute meme, so, +1.