Making the AI Core Less of a Laughing Stock

[BurgerBB]

Aka improved AI core design. I felt the old was extremely unbalanced due to annoyances and a conflict of mapping standards. PR will be up after enough feedback.

Edited December 20, 2019 by BurgerBB

[Nantei]

Might be helpful to show a side-by-side and explain the decision making process behind the changes. Not quite sure how I feel about it myself.

[Scheveningen]

My concern is that airlock in the back there. I anticipate RCD memes.

[BurgerBB]

3 minutes ago, Scheveningen said:

My concern is that airlock in the back there. I anticipate RCD memes.

Then I will make it so RCD cannot remove vault doors.

[Scheveningen]

Fine if so, then.

[Pratepresidenten]

Can we have more turrets?

[BurgerBB]

1 hour ago, Nantei said:

Might be helpful to show a side-by-side and explain the decision making process behind the changes. Not quite sure how I feel about it myself.

I rather just answer questions.

[BurgerBB]

2 hours ago, Pratepresidenten said:

Can we have more turrets?

Additional turrets, I feel, are not needed. If in the case that they are, then they will be added.

[Pratepresidenten]

Would it be possible to have all space tiles outside the windows at the elevator access? Not ashy turf, just pure space. Makes a lil more hazardous and the windows a little less.. Pointless?

[BurgerBB]

6 hours ago, Pratepresidenten said:

Would it be possible to have all space tiles outside the windows at the elevator access? Not ashy turf, just pure space. Makes a lil more hazardous and the windows a little less.. Pointless?

I could add open turf if others are fine with this. I was going to add it initially, but I felt that it wouldn't make sense in an asteroid and would make it feel less secure.

[ben10083]

I really dislike the back entrance, this is just begging security/engineering/mining to just always take the back, as you only face one turret and can screw them over by taking out like,1-2 cameras? 

Rest I am fine with.

[KingOfThePing]

Looks solid, except, like the others said, the back entrance. Players always go the path of least resistance. Rest are obvious improvements, like the "hallway" out of the elevator not being 1 tile of reinforced glass anymore that even cavern dwellers could easily break and did to regularly. Good changes

[Kaed]

Suggestion: 

Put some glass windows and set of glass doors here, so that the turrets can fire at people without being subject to ballistic items such as ions.  It also would make things fee a bit less weirdly empty and wide open.

Also, the back door is terrible, don't.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Kaed

[sonicgotnuked]

I like that it also moves the core from the line of fire from cheese emitters. Otherwise, there is no reason for the back door at all. It just screams for someone to make a baseball bat, fire axe, or whatever to come down and smash it open. 

[BurgerBB]

The back door is bolted closed. Any attempt to bash it would just lock the bolts down.

[Arrow768]

The window into the bunker is a nogo, as that is a very severe weakspot.
Readd the double r-walls to the bunker.

[Arrow768]

Actually, looking at it closer, the overall design is much less resistant against intruders than the current design.

• The shield generators are gone from the core entrance
• The turret is gone from the core entrance (instead the entrance is only partially covered)
• The walls to the outside are thinner (and can be breached faster)
• The back entrance to the AI core is way too easy to breach now, as there isnt even an r-wall that need to be breached to get into the core
• You have a lot of space around the elevator making it much easier to mount a offensive and setup triage/staging areas right down at the AI core.

This seems more like a nerf disguised as a buff than a actual improvement.

[BurgerBB]

38 minutes ago, Arrow768 said:

Actually, looking at it closer, the overall design is much less resistant against intruders than the current design.

• The shield generators are gone from the core entrance
• The turret is gone from the core entrance (instead the entrance is only partially covered)
• The walls to the outside are thinner (and can be breached faster)
• The back entrance to the AI core is way too easy to breach now, as there isnt even an r-wall that need to be breached to get into the core
• You have a lot of space around the elevator making it much easier to mount a offensive and setup triage/staging areas right down at the AI core.

This seems more like a nerf disguised as a buff than a actual improvement.

The improvement here is not that the AI core is more secure but it is better for gameplay, hence my use of the word "unbalanced" in the OP.

99 out of 100 MALF rounds that involve the crew going in to try and defeat the MALF are usually done via emitters or backdoor cheesing. They are never done with full on frontal assaults because the AI has an excessive amount of bolted high security doors, shields, turrets, not to mention their ability to detonate APCs, killing the group inside it..

[Alberyk]

The backdoor is a really awful idea. Frontal assaults are more interesting than just going behind and killing the AI with little effort. Going behind it is just a single step better than throwing rods at it from above.

[BurgerBB]

1 minute ago, Alberyk said:

The backdoor is a really awful idea. Frontal assaults are more interesting than just going behind and killing the AI with little effort. Going behind it is just a single step better than throwing rods at it from above.

Back door was added because of mapping standards. Generally no where else but the vault has a wire that goes through walls.

[BurgerBB]

[Nantei]

Going behind is definitely too easy. This may be one of those cases where putting the wire inside a wall is preferable. If there is to be a back entrance, it should be the most difficult option.

I like the changes to the elevator. The elevator as is now is horrid. The front entrance definitely needs to be beefed up, though. Preferably the door should have two walls next to the front entrance next to the intercom and extinguisher. That way opening the door to snipe turrets is actually hazardous, and usable cover to snipe said turrets is more limited. If you want to make it even worse you can make it so the farthest turrets near the stationbound recharger are only visible from the doorway.

[HighAdmiral]

Aside from how awful the back door idea as a whole is, I'll focus more on the lobby.

I really like that you've gotten rid of the space hallway, I much prefer the warmer "welcome to AI Upload" look it has now.

That said, I dislike the internal AI Upload changes you've made. The decentralization of the front turret makes the turret much less effective, as it now has line of sight blocked by a corner. This change, in addition to the loss of the shield generators is massive to what already few tools an AI has for direct self defense. Lawset doesn't allow for lethals against a member of the crew, and in order to install the generators you either need a compliant engineering/research cyborg, or command to authorize an engineer into AI Upload. Both of which are honestly pretty uncommon during lowpop, or just not needed during highpop when 99% of antags don't even look at AI Upload.

By removing that wall/door with it's glass component you've both left a large open space that just doesn't look good, and taken away 25% of the frontal protection AI Upload has. While I don't necessarily think this is game ending for an AI, it is a very serious nerf that should be considered carefully.

Every single time AI Upload has been invaded by anyone with a shred of competence, they've won. All you need is one ion rifle and some patience, which any antag that makes subverting the AI a priority does have, or which Security usually has during malf.

 

A suggestion for improvement, I do think there needs to be more ways to combat an AI. I don't think that should be done through adding a backdoor, or nerfing the entrance. Think about other methods that can be introduced.
Increase the power use of AI Upload by a great deal, make that power wire when cut mean something to the AI. Add ways for the AI to reduce power usage. For instance make turrets use a great deal more power when set to lethal, or give it a complex cooling system that requires power to keep cool, requiring less activated features when there is a potential loss of power.

[BurgerBB]

The backdoor was removed as seen above.

[Carver]

How about reinforced flooring? Removes the 'APC/machine blows up and there's an impassable hole to the bottom-most z-level' memes.