SO, about that New Big Thing

[Carver]

33 minutes ago, DanseMacabre said:

Overmap propulsion mechanically requires everything in that screenshot. If you sabotage the propellant/run out, it's not going to work, so on and so forth. So yeah, if you run out of power you won't be able to move or stop or control the ship, if you blow up the engine nacelles or the storage tanks, etc, it'll stop working, whatever you could think of. We're just implementing Bay's version of overmap so if you want to play around with it, just test it on a Baycode test server.

Right, cheers. I hope a scheme of flying the ship into a meteor shower then remotely blowing the propulsion doesn't end up being something disallowed.

[Kintsugi]

18 minutes ago, Carver said:

Right, cheers. I hope a scheme of flying the ship into a meteor shower then remotely blowing the propulsion doesn't end up being something disallowed.

Because overmap inertia doesn't stop unless you accelerate in the opposite direction, chances are we will end up flying into all sorts of hazards whenever thruster control is lost while the ship is moving. This happened a few times on Bay and it was always fun - this also makes it a real nightmare to try and recover a shuttle that has lost control while moving, which also happened a few times. All in all overmap is a great system with plenty of opportunities for sabotage.

[BunkyB]

On 11/10/2021 at 02:09, Alberyk said:

New overmap icons:

  Reveal hidden contents

Is this finalized? I find it incredibly hard to read, given time I suppose I'd be able to get used to it, but I currently see it as a downgrade from just porting the overmap.
By this I mean; the icons are identifiable and easy to read, however the background is incredibly cluttered and I can't identify if the ship is surrounded by overmap hazards or if it's just artistic fluff.
I'm in no way the majority and I haven't seen anyone else complain about it, but I'd suggest tweaking it slightly to improve readability.
Could you possibly post a full sprite sheet of all overmap icons in next weeks teaser?

 

On 11/10/2021 at 02:09, Alberyk said:

Xenobiology:

  Reveal hidden contents

Something I've been meaning to ask is if Research is divided between to z-levels. We seem to be keeping all of the same job titles:
Is Research small enough to share a z-level with other departments?
Does Research need to be split between two different z-levels, like our current map?
Or does Research have it's own z-level, like Bays Engineering? This question could go both ways, does Engineering have it's own z-level?

[Alberyk]

Today's teaser will be less about the map itself.

Due to the nbt being a ship, the arrivals shuttle is being removed as a spawn point option. Instead, we will have cryostorage and the living quarters lift. The new spawn point will also work as a way to leave the round like cryo, but it is way more immersive. This will also implies that the ship has an area bellow the first deck where the characters live off-work. More details on it will come when the ship lore is written. Also, cyborgs will be forced to spawn in the cyborg storage.

A living quarters lift(the right one is occupied):

Spoiler

Now, the subject is sprites. While we wait for some code and other necessary stuff for the nbt, Kyres has started to work in making unique sprites for the machines (and maybe other stuff) for the nbt. The reason why most of these sprites changes are reserved for the nbt is that some of these sprites have directionals and that would require mapping them in our current map as well. So adding them to the nbt is less work overall and they will also be more in line with the new nbt sprites. Example:

New console sprites:

Spoiler

 

[greenjoe]

what are those consoles for? Replacing the normal ones all over the station/ship?

[Alberyk]

1 minute ago, greenjoe said:

what are those consoles for? Replacing the normal ones all over the station/ship?

It will replace all station/ship consoles in the nbt.

[Ickysoup]

Three monitor battle stations pog

[Faye <3]

hahahahah i like the more sci fi cool monitors. they're funny in a good way.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Faye <3

[greenjoe]

my feedback on the monitors is: I'm not keen on all of them being 3 screen ones, that makes all the screens on them seem much too small, and the other thing is the perspective on the left/right sprites seems odd

[Alberyk]

The new medical computer screen:

[Sycmos]

The implications of living quarters raises some concerns regarding current character development that may be halted altogether if characters will need to relocate for work. Will characters be living on the vessel for long periods of time, and be expected to permanently uproot themselves if they're to participate? I can see this being a major issue with a plethora of characters who have developed lives while living on Biesel or the Odin, and was curious as to if there was a definitive guideline established or considered for this.

[Alberyk]

13 minutes ago, Sycmos said:

The implications of living quarters raises some concerns regarding current character development that may be halted altogether if characters will need to relocate for work. Will characters be living on the vessel for long periods of time, and be expected to permanently uproot themselves if they're to participate? I can see this being a major issue with a plethora of characters who have developed lives while living on Biesel or the Odin, and was curious as to if there was a definitive guideline established or considered for this.

Unsure if we can just avoid or prevent this without scrapping the concep of a ship. People can still roleplay whatever they want outside of the server. I guess could just be explained that people can be moved around/go back to where they want with a shuttle while taking a break. But in the end of the day, it is not something we can just keep if we are going with a mobile setting like this.

[Lmwevil]

23 minutes ago, Sycmos said:

The implications of living quarters raises some concerns regarding current character development that may be halted altogether if characters will need to relocate for work. Will characters be living on the vessel for long periods of time, and be expected to permanently uproot themselves if they're to participate? I can see this being a major issue with a plethora of characters who have developed lives while living on Biesel or the Odin, and was curious as to if there was a definitive guideline established or considered for this.

i'll be honest like this seems like a non issue, they either move to the NBT or they don't. It's not like the characters can't take vacations or something from shore leave? plus said characters can still do relay stuff right?

honestly like this isn't too much of an issue if there's shore leave, i mean it could be implicit every X days it docks and people can have their lives off of it if they want? then you can just view it as extended shifts with large breaks inbetween fluff wise 

maybe i'm being dumb but also like, in your case isn't it the most cheesy romantic thing to have a character like yutani go with his missus across the galaxy to explore it all together? 

[Sycmos]

2 minutes ago, Lmwevil said:

i'll be honest like this seems like a non issue, they either move to the NBT or they don't. It's not like the characters can't take vacations or something from shore leave? plus said characters can still do relay stuff right?

honestly like this isn't too much of an issue if there's shore leave, i mean it could be implicit every X days it docks and people can have their lives off of it if they want? then you can just view it as extended shifts with large breaks inbetween fluff wise 

maybe i'm being dumb but also like, in your case isn't it the most cheesy romantic thing to have a character like yutani go with his missus across the galaxy to explore it all together? 

It makes absolutely zero sense for a character who has established a living space and settled as part of character development to abandon all of that for months at a time to travel. It's irresponsible and narratively nonsensical. Perhaps for a character that has not had significant development over the course of the fallow period between initial releases of NBT information and now where you can MacGuffin moving in but from an IC standpoint characters who worked towards establishing their lives on Biesel would have to toss all of it just to tag along. So no.

[Lmwevil]

44 minutes ago, Sycmos said:

It makes absolutely zero sense for a character who has established a living space and settled as part of character development to abandon all of that for months at a time to travel. It's irresponsible and narratively nonsensical. Perhaps for a character that has not had significant development over the course of the fallow period between initial releases of NBT information and now where you can MacGuffin moving in but from an IC standpoint characters who worked towards establishing their lives on Biesel would have to toss all of it just to tag along. So no.

we've known the ship is coming for like two years, didn't you kinda expect this and plan for it though? we all knew a SHIP was coming, and that a ship is markedly different to a static station workplace 

[kyres1]

1 hour ago, Sycmos said:

It makes absolutely zero sense for a character who has established a living space and settled as part of character development to abandon all of that for months at a time to travel. It's irresponsible and narratively nonsensical. Perhaps for a character that has not had significant development over the course of the fallow period between initial releases of NBT information and now where you can MacGuffin moving in but from an IC standpoint characters who worked towards establishing their lives on Biesel would have to toss all of it just to tag along. So no.

What you do with your characters is your own choice. Any excuse can be made to bring them onto any setting ; the same can be said for people currently utilizing the station. You can just as easily argue that "you would never go to the Aurora because the commute is too long," or something.

 

This is a problem that extends to much of the new setting (and often times, events that aren't on station). With the rooftop event, I had about a dozen people questioning why their character would ever attend such a party. This is kind of ridiculous to me, because your character can do anything within your own control. There is no magical binding force that prevents the random postcard invitation from reaching your character as the event description said.

The same applies to the Next Big Thing. There is really no reason to circumvent the idea of a brand new, superior setting by saying "well, my characters wouldn't really go there due to X." You can very easily say the character gets shuttled off frequently to tend to their own lifestyle elsewhere, until it interferes with the state of canon (for example, the ship travels far far away for a duration, cutting contact?) and reflects on the server. In which case it'd be rulebreaking, yes, but this can again be avoided with reason. "My character simply didn't go on the trip," or "My character did this before/during the trip" applies here.  

[Sycmos]

1 hour ago, Lmwevil said:

we've known the ship is coming for like two years, didn't you kinda expect this and plan for it though? we all knew a SHIP was coming, and that a ship is markedly different to a static station workplace 

I just recently returned to the server last March and had no knowledge of plans regarding the NBT until late last year, after having already considerably developed several characters. Furthermore, having to intentionally gimp character development so that I can fit a character into a narrative transition that we have no serious information about 2 years later is ridiculous. Perhaps it does not matter to you but it does to me, and throwing it in my face does nothing to assuage my concerns. I have no interest in entertaining the topic with you any further.

42 minutes ago, kyres1 said:

What you do with your characters is your own choice. Any excuse can be made to bring them onto any setting ; the same can be said for people currently utilizing the station. You can just as easily argue that "you would never go to the Aurora because the commute is too long," or something.

 

This is a problem that extends to much of the new setting (and often times, events that aren't on station). With the rooftop event, I had about a dozen people questioning why their character would ever attend such a party. This is kind of ridiculous to me, because your character can do anything within your own control. There is no magical binding force that prevents the random postcard invitation from reaching your character as the event description said.

The same applies to the Next Big Thing. There is really no reason to circumvent the idea of a brand new, superior setting by saying "well, my characters wouldn't really go there due to X." You can very easily say the character gets shuttled off frequently to tend to their own lifestyle elsewhere, until it interferes with the state of canon (for example, the ship travels far far away for a duration, cutting contact?) and reflects on the server. In which case it'd be rulebreaking, yes, but this can again be avoided with reason. "My character simply didn't go on the trip," or "My character did this before/during the trip" applies here.  

I appreciate the perspective. I'm not sincerely opposed to the transition in setting, as it establishes an entirely new frontier for the server that hasn't been touched on since its inception and invites a lot of new opportunities - I just want what anyone else would want for their characters that they've worked to develop over a long period of time: meaningful and satisfactory development. Perhaps I'm seeing this transition with a little more down-to-earth perspective and should be a little more lenient.

[BunkyB]

Teasers seem to be slowing down, I hope this is indicative of NBT being close.

The only thing I have to say for this weeks teaser is; the consoles should be a bit taller, they look very squat.

[Kintsugi]

This may sound harsh, but - the fact of the matter is that it is necessary that we leave behind Biesel as the sole focus of the server if we wish to expand the narrative. It has been extremely constricting from the beginning, and I think as a server we have outgrown Tau Ceti as the focal point of our story. The NBT is a major transition, but nonetheless is a transition that needs to happen for the better of the server. If we really want to explore Aurora's lore and the endlessly diverse Aurora setting, that means leaving behind what has been done for more than half a decade now. The point that I'm trying to make is that while it may be uncomfortable for some to leave behind Biesel for any number of reasons, it is absolutely necessary and no compromises can be made there, in my opinion.

Lmwevil is right in that we have known this was coming for years. While the definite details are still unclear, we have known all along that the NBT is a ship, and it is a ship that explores the spur at large. Even the previous and abandoned NBT idea had us leaving Tau Ceti to establish a new colony. It has always been the case that our sedentary style will be shifting to a migratory one with that in mind, and with the NBT still potentially months away, there is still plenty of time to try and come up with an idea for why a character might leave behind their life in Tau Ceti for a life aboard the NBT ship. Even if your character has no reason to willingly leave, even if they would never leave of their own accord, there are plenty of reasons that they might be forced to leave. From severe debt that comes as a result of bad luck, a need for more money, or an employer forcing them to take the journey at risk of losing their job or worse, there are many reasons why people living a happy life may be forced to leave it behind, for the time being. The fact of the matter is that, like Kyres says, there are infinite reasons why your character may leave Tau Ceti: and ultimately, you are the master of their destiny, and you can make them do whatever you want, in the end. With all that in mind, I don't think it is fair to suggest that a change in lifestyle equates halting character development. In fact, I would argue much the opposite - your character is experiencing massive changes in their very existence, and therefore should experience character development of all sorts. It may mean putting an end to a story that you enjoy - but not necessarily, as characters continue to exist even if they aren't played on server.

This is the part that may sound extra harsh, but I feel it needs to be said: If a player cannot find a reason they like for their character to make the leap, or if the player doesn't want to put an end to that character's story in Tau Ceti, that is on the player, and only the player. The NBT needs to be the way it is in order to work as a setting, and that's the fact of the matter.

[YourDaddy117]

3 hours ago, Sycmos said:

It makes absolutely zero sense for a character who has established a living space and settled as part of character development to abandon all of that for months at a time to travel. It's irresponsible and narratively nonsensical. Perhaps for a character that has not had significant development over the course of the fallow period between initial releases of NBT information and now where you can MacGuffin moving in but from an IC standpoint characters who worked towards establishing their lives on Biesel would have to toss all of it just to tag along. So no.

Then don't play that character.

[Marlon P.]

It'll be fun to visit all the different words of aurora setting. Spending a week at each one then cycling back to tau ceti would by itself give constant content.

[MattAtlas]

I think the biggest reasonable compromise is to add some code that says that the ship will dock at a certain port in the sector at round end. Example: if we are in Elyra, the round end screen will say that it's about to dock at a port in Persepolis. This would allow people to abstract their free time away, it'd allow people to continue using the relay (off-time during refueling, cargo unloading or what have you) and it'd allow people to develop their character through discord DMs, while not killing the idea of a ship.

Additionally, this should come with a config option, so it can be disabled for a period of time if needed.

[KingOfThePing]

Honestly, server comes before any potential discord RP. If things have to be shuffled around, then so be it. There will be a way, one way or another. It was clear from the very beginning that people may have to leave some of their characters behind because it is not reasonable for them to come along. So be it. I'd encourage everyone to see it as an opportunity, instead of an obstacle. 

[Desven]

5 hours ago, MattAtlas said:

I think the biggest reasonable compromise is to add some code that says that the ship will dock at a certain port in the sector at round end. Example: if we are in Elyra, the round end screen will say that it's about to dock at a port in Persepolis. This would allow people to abstract their free time away, it'd allow people to continue using the relay (off-time during refueling, cargo unloading or what have you) and it'd allow people to develop their character through discord DMs, while not killing the idea of a ship.

Additionally, this should come with a config option, so it can be disabled for a period of time if needed.

I feel it's not possible to have us dock every round, maybe we will be in the middle of nowhere sometimes. But it's certainly something that could happen. It does make you question what would happen with characters not allowed in certain places, I guess they'd just stay inside the ship. Honestly, I feel just rping what facilities the living quarters hold is for the best.

[greenjoe]

45 minutes ago, Desven said:

It does make you question what would happen with characters not allowed in certain places,

I'm wondering about that too, for if we visit somewhere like the Jargon Federation, if that'd just mean IPCs aren't allowed out.. technically by the laws the ship would have to follow any laws of the systems it visits, unless that ends up changing due to the SCC somehow forcing systems to allow the ship to hold it's own laws. Even then the IPCs would be stuck on the ship in Jargon, anyway.