Have CCIA Formally Clarify Code Blue

[Azande]

I was encouraged to make this by ForgottenTraveller and Garnascus.

Code Blue right now, means different things to different heads. The announcement for code blue and as far as regulations mention, only revokes rights to personal privacy, which allows Security to SEARCH without warrant. The announcement has never said, and before late, heads have never allowed, code blue to override arrest warrants.

However, security lately has taken code blue as overriding arrest warrants, so I would like a formal clarification from CCIA or admins on this. The initial response from ForgottenT was that he doesn't like outlining everything, however with something that happens every round, we should have clear outlined regulation in regards to what Code Blue does and does not accomplish.

I have three initial courses of action, but encourage CCIA to decide their own if they come up with something else:

Code Blue Does NOT Nullify Arrest Warrants

Head of Security/Warden/Captain will still need to use arrest warrants or the Warrant Assistant program to authorize arrests not directly witnessed by a Head of Staff or Security Officer. Searches are fully permitted without warrant.

Code Blue DOES Nullify Arrest Warrants

Arrest warrants do not need to be filed to complete an arrest on Code Blue, however once the emergency passes, the Warden or Head of Security should file paperwork copies to ensure accurate recording of arrests.

Code Blue Dynamic Authority

Allows the Captain, Head of Security to make the decision on whether arrest warrants and search warrants will be nullified during the alert level, this most be vocally announced to crew, and cannot be changed without a following code change to green and up again. The Capt/HoS does not have the authority to do a case-by-case decision, to ensure they don't nullify warrants whenever it'd be convenient for them.

[DatBerry]

I was pro-no-warrant before we got the new warrant system, since you had to run all the way back the brig to get the warrant and then back to the now clear of any contraband at all suspect who totally did not rush to disposal his contraband.

but now that you can have it magically pop on your projector I'm leaning more towards dynamic authority since a captain/HoS's direct order can still be used to make an arrest without a warrant IIRC. which they can already do, the captain is LI so I don't see the big issue in giving them the authority to approve warrantless arrests when the need arises.

[Scheveningen]

Code Blue Does NOT Nullify Arrest Warrants

Head of Security/Warden/Captain will still need to use arrest warrants or the Warrant Assistant program to authorize arrests not directly witnessed by a Head of Staff or Security Officer. Searches are fully permitted without warrant.

 

Voting on this as preference.

[CommanderXor]

Gonna vote on the later, if the authority is extended to Warden. Because right now the way I see this happening is some shitter is going to ahelp the moment it's breached claiming some reason or another that it's unfair. Otherwise I'm all for it.

[incognitojesus]

Moved to questions subforum. Will have words with FT when possible.

[Azande]

Moved to questions subforum. Will have words with FT when possible.

 

Please move it back, Garnacus explicity asked me to put it in suggestions.

[Azande]

[mention]Garnascus[/mention][mention]ForgottenTraveller[/mention]

[Garnascus]

Code Blue Does NOT Nullify Arrest Warrants

Head of Security/Warden/Captain will still need to use arrest warrants or the Warrant Assistant program to authorize arrests not directly witnessed by a Head of Staff or Security Officer. Searches are fully permitted without warrant.

 

Sorry xander when you originally came to me about this i reckoned it sounded like a suggestion. Exactly where this thread is put is not super important though as the message is still the same. I am most partial to this idea though. I think arrest warrants are pretty important and they have gotten a lot less cumbersome now that we have a holo warrant projector. I think security is a department that needs communication greater than any other department. Warrants force a little of that communication since even OOC i am interested in security being able to prove a thing happened. Warrants add another layer of protection against problematic security play and i think it will help enforce a more healthier way to play.

Obviously nobody expects a warrant if you witness the crime.

[Butterrobber202]

Code Blue Does NOT Nullify Arrest Warrants

Head of Security/Warden/Captain will still need to use arrest warrants or the Warrant Assistant program to authorize arrests not directly witnessed by a Head of Staff or Security Officer. Searches are fully permitted without warrant.

 

Sorry xander when you originally came to me about this i reckoned it sounded like a suggestion. Exactly where this thread is put is not super important though as the message is still the same. I am most partial to this idea though. I think arrest warrants are pretty important and they have gotten a lot less cumbersome now that we have a holo warrant projector. I think security is a department that needs communication greater than any other department. Warrants force a little of that communication since even OOC i am interested in security being able to prove a thing happened. Warrants add another layer of protection against problematic security play and i think it will help enforce a more healthier way to play.

Obviously nobody expects a warrant if you witness the crime.

 

Another Question comes to mind, does the AI count as a Sec Officer if they witness a crime?

[Superiorform]

Code Blue Does NOT Nullify Arrest Warrants

Head of Security/Warden/Captain will still need to use arrest warrants or the Warrant Assistant program to authorize arrests not directly witnessed by a Head of Staff or Security Officer. Searches are fully permitted without warrant.

 

Sorry xander when you originally came to me about this i reckoned it sounded like a suggestion. Exactly where this thread is put is not super important though as the message is still the same. I am most partial to this idea though. I think arrest warrants are pretty important and they have gotten a lot less cumbersome now that we have a holo warrant projector. I think security is a department that needs communication greater than any other department. Warrants force a little of that communication since even OOC i am interested in security being able to prove a thing happened. Warrants add another layer of protection against problematic security play and i think it will help enforce a more healthier way to play.

Obviously nobody expects a warrant if you witness the crime.

 

Another Question comes to mind, does the AI count as a Sec Officer if they witness a crime?

 

No, but if its laws are intact, the AI as a witness is very very strong evidence of a crime.

[DatBerry]

The AI only sees through cameras, so unless they witness something damning, (e.g beating someone to pulp) their witness testamony should be more supportive than damning.

[whiterabit]

Typically the AI isn't considered the same as an officer for witnessing. The officer clause is so an officer watching a beatdown doesn't have to go "sorry lmao i dont got a warrant : ("

Witnessing something as crew, command, AI, etc. can be used as evidence, but you should still be getting a warrant under standard operations. With that said, if the AI or any other crew is witnessing something that requires immediate sec attention like an attack, calling for them will 80% of the time get an officer there quick enough to just straight up witness what's going down.

Edit: Oh right and the actual main point of the thread. I'm more supportive of the idea that arrest warrants should still be required on blue. Excuse search warrants? Sure. When there's a possible threat it makes sense to allow immediate searches of any crew and to let sec act on what they might find through that search. Not really enough of an excuse though to start detaining crew on suspicion alone though. I'd leave it to code red to no longer require an arrest warrant as red alert typically means things have escalated to the point where efficiency is what's needed most. Still waiting on FT to drop his post here.

[Butterrobber202]

I've seen HoS allow no-warrant arrests just because the AI witnessed the crime, and when I called sec out on it, they said 'It's lawed and counts as an officer.'

[Dreamix]

Well, AI is lawed and really has no reason to lie about an anti-NT crime. It should also record everything it sees so it can be reviewed post-shift, so I don't really see a reason not to believe an AI.

[whiterabit]

And command should be some of the most trusted people on NT's payroll. The point being that if an officer didn't personally witness it, he should be getting a warrant unless there's significant reason to act otherwise.

Letting officers have the authority to arrest someone on code green soley by saying "the ai saw you lol" is dumb. If it's a circumstance in which any other person reporting it would lead you to get a warrant first, aka something not posing an immediate danger to the other crew, then it should still be done that way.

[Azande]

hi, this thread is not about AIs. thanks

[ForgottenTraveller]

I am less than pleased in the wording of this discussion. I encouraged you to make a thread discussing your idea with everyone who was interested as it effect them, and it is important for them to have input. After you tried to get a quote from me on this.

An you title the thread in a manner that seemingly tries to shut them out. Which isn't bloody fair. While I personally sit on option 1. I am going to sit on a formal statement for a bit. For the input of players who would be significantly affected by any decision given that is the discussion I encouraged, and provides actual help. I know the letter of current announcements, I want to know how strong the server culture is with the idea we don't need them, and if going with option 1 how opposed to change it is. Or if we go with option 2 or 3, how will those likely affected think about what to expect?

An I will say again. The forum is a place for everyone to have input, and a off-the-cuff decision on whether to go with culture or law is not my place to make, nor I think any one other staff member without consideration of the rest of the players. Because if it is cultural, and everyone is against it. It could be ignored en-masse. Making it all pointless and antagonistic.

[Avajain]

Well. On code blue, my stance is that search warrants shouldn't be required, but arrest warrants are required. That is all.

[ben10083]

I think Arrest Warrants should only be not required on Code Red, otherwise only search warrants are excused on Code Blue.

[Azande]

I am less than pleased in the wording of this discussion. I encouraged you to make a thread discussing your idea with everyone who was interested as it effect them, and it is important for them to have input. After you tried to get a quote from me on this.

An you title the thread in a manner that seemingly tries to shut them out. Which isn't bloody fair. While I personally sit on option 1. I am going to sit on a formal statement for a bit. For the input of players who would be significantly affected by any decision given that is the discussion I encouraged, and provides actual help. I know the letter of current announcements, I want to know how strong the server culture is with the idea we don't need them, and if going with option 1 how opposed to change it is. Or if we go with option 2 or 3, how will those likely affected think about what to expect?

An I will say again. The forum is a place for everyone to have input, and a off-the-cuff decision on whether to go with culture or law is not my place to make, nor I think any one other staff member without consideration of the rest of the players. Because if it is cultural, and everyone is against it. It could be ignored en-masse. Making it all pointless and antagonistic.

 

Garn told me to make it as a suggestion, to encourage you to make a formal statement. I listen to the Headmin.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Guest

[Zundy]

Let's keep it civil lads, we're all big boys and girls here.

[Faris]

My preferred stance regarding code blue would be that search warrants are allowed but to permit the Warden place warrants without the need to contact a member of command about it. Code red however I believe should allow no warrant arrests due to the nature of the emergency.

Do note that unless I'm wrong here then I should be correct but it's perfectly fine for the HoS/Captain/Joint command/Acting Captain to say that even though it's code blue, they still want search warrants since say the emergency or threat is not related.

I'll have a discussion with CCIA and perhaps we could add something to the Corp reg page.