More tajaran restrictions on command positions

[Alberyk]

Currently the tajaran species is only restricted to the captain position, being able to be a head of personnel, head of security, chief medical officer, chief engineer and research director. However, due to the lore of the species, a long history of subordination and being kept ignorant by the nobility, coupled with most of the population still not having access to proper education even in the modern times of our setting, it would be uncommon, but not impossible, for a tajara to be able to reach the positions of head of staff.

Taking in consideration this, and the fact that that most species have been really lax when the issue is job restriction, we wanted to propose the implementation of some changes. This would not stop any tajara from being any department, and if added, it would just restrict certain ethnicities from being head of staffs. We also believe that those restrictions will create more interesting differences and conflicts between the tajaran races.

We propose the possible changes:

 

• First possibility: only Hharar and Njarir can be head of staff.

 

Besides the ruler aspect of the Njarir race, the Hharar are also considered the most intellectual group of the tajaran species. Their relation with the old plutocracy and contact with humanity would also increase the chances of a Hhrar having access to more education than a M’sai or a Zhan.

 

• Second possibility: only Hharar and Njarir can be head of staff, while M’sai are restricted to being head of security only.

 

The M’sai race has an extensive history and focus on military, law enforcement and security work, it would not really be impossible for a M’sai to be able to command a security team with the species’ background and situation.

 

• Third possibility: no changes.

 

If none of the options are really accepted, or seems as viable, no restrictions will be changed.

We will also create a poll on server, so we can gather more opinions on it. Take in consideration that we are not enacting any change right now, we are only seeking to gather feedback of the community on this proposal before we can act.

[Scheveningen]

Definitely the second option. The head of security has probably the least stringent of education requirements compared to the other heads of staff but it can be backed up through pure combat leadership experience and a few 101 courses you take with NanoTrasen.

We need more Zhan discrimination tbh.

[Mofo1995]

Since few have posted yet, I would like to let everyone know we are looking for discussion in this thread. Let us know what you think.

[Butterrobber202]

need more zhan discrimination tbh, lock them out of the entire science department.

[SeniorScore]

I am more than a-okay with more restrictions on (races of) Tajara, given how they're almost explicitly stated to be used for cheap labor, it'd be kinda weird to just see any cat being a head, in my eyes

[Loow]

M'sai have had it too good for too long. They should be back in the rank and file where they belong.

[moltenkore]

I always thought it strange to see Zhan in command positions as they have always been thought of as the manual labour section and the lore states they tend not to seek higher positions, so I wouldn't mind it being changed to Hharar, M'sai and Njarir.

I do think that command positions should still remain obtainable for Hharar and Njarir especially those that have worked hard all their lives through strife and what not to get to the positions they have endured for.

[DronzTheWolf]

I personally think that arbitrary restrictions like this will lead to lessened roleplay.

While it's true that Zhan are manual labor and said to not seek higher position, the IC impact would essentially be the same as a company like Google or Apple saying they won't let any certain race people be regional managers

[Bauser]

Not a fan of imposing role restrictions on any characters based on race or ethnicity. The goal is to avoid "snowflakey" characters who have achieved positions beyond the scope of their circumstances, but I don't believe any players should be disallowed from making exceptional characters , if they can play them well, just because we're worried about people playing bad ones.

We love to hate on those snowflake characters, but it is a simple fact that even they have a legitimate place in serious roleplay. They are problematic because there can't be many without it appearing totally nonsensical... But it's good to have a few. So no, this seems to me like a forfeiture of freedom for the purpose of security.

[Spider]

why not just remove tajaran entirely from command

[Alberyk]

While it's true that Zhan are manual labor and said to not seek higher position, the IC impact would essentially be the same as a company like Google or Apple saying they won't let any certain race people be regional managers

 

Still, only skrell and humans can be captains, it never says anywhere, in character, that other species can't be, still they never reach it.

 

We love to hate on those snowflake characters, but it is a simple fact that even they have a legitimate place in serious roleplay. They are problematic because there can't be many without it appearing totally nonsensical... But it's good to have a few. So no, this seems to me like a forfeiture of freedom for the purpose of security.

 

Not our objective here. Lore writers try to create a world full of conflict and racial tension, and still, xenos and machines can be in any positions without problem. While I understand that some characters might be expectional, I also believe they can exist without being heads of staff at the same time, and this restriction can be used to fuel more roleplay than just allowing people anything they want; "Why Urist MacHharar is the chief engineer while him, Urist McZhan, is a better engineer?"

 

why not just remove tajaran entirely from command

 

Not happening, allowing some tajara into command staff does help with creating conflict and differences between the species itself.

[Bauser]

I'm sure it's not the objective, but it strikes me as a side-effect. If the goal is to create more racial tension in-game, I'm not even sure this will help. When we prevent people from making characters in those roles, the characters they make instead tend to... not... want those roles? Whereas conversely, if we DO allow those groups into exceptional roles, it at least maintains the chance for other characters to react negatively to it ("How does one of them get a job like that?" "They don't deserve it," etc). So, for every opportunity that is created by these limitations (E.G. your "Why is he the chief when McZhan is better?" example), another opportunity is erased.

But I find the entire discussion to be missing the point a little bit. The fact of the matter is: racial tension doesn't happen much in-game because most players don't want to be racists. Maybe we could be questioning the benefit of lore writers creating this conflict, or administrators enforcing it, when it doesn't reflect the kind of play that people enjoy. Yes, it makes the game universe richer and more interesting in general, but our little pocket of that universe, the station, exists in a sort of vacuum (also in a literal vacuum) where we have control. So we don't have to be slaves to what's going on in the rest of the universe, at least not in every case.

[Skull132]

I personally think that arbitrary restrictions like this will lead to lessened roleplay.

While it's true that Zhan are manual labor and said to not seek higher position, the IC impact would essentially be the same as a company like Google or Apple saying they won't let any certain race people be regional managers

 

Calling it arbitrary is invalid. From my understanding of asking Alberyk, NT is officially favouring a racist faction of the cats. Which means, in order to save face, they'd be more inclined to enforce racial divides when possible and when it doesn't cause too much havoc. Since enforcing kitty rights in Tau Ceti is already half a meme, it makes sense that they [NT] can get away with letting subtle racism seep in by stone-walling non-favoured race promotions. The restriction isn't arbitrary because it has a grounding in something which should be tangible ingame: the lore.

No roleplay is lessened from this change. In the same way that no roleplay is added by removing/not implementing these restrictions. The claim itself is half-ridiculous,

[Jakers457]

In my mind, they'd see the M'Sai as the guard dogs and not the handlers.

[whiterabit]

In my mind, they'd see the M'Sai as the guard dogs and not the handlers.

 

Valid argument, and a good reason why the vote is split for M'Sai.

It could go both ways in my opinion, yes the M'Sai could be seen as strong fighters only with the leading ethnicities wanting to keep a tight leash on them with oversight from their own. On the other hand, M'Sai had their own tribes and needed to be organized in their own right so there should be a good number of command capable white kitties given their culture, and I'm sure a number would have distinguished themselves in the revolution. Sure it would be rarer for them to enter command positions, but I think that's held up well by the restriction of them only being allowed to take the position of HoS in command. They'd be highly regarded for one talent, but any who deviate from that wouldn't be allowed many options for advancement.

[DronzTheWolf]

No roleplay is lessened from this change. In the same way that no roleplay is added by removing/not implementing these restrictions. The claim itself is half-ridiculous,

 

Bauser put it better than I on how this is a double-edged sword. I could see this being a necessary change if we had a problem of a bunch of Zhan heads, but from what I've seen in-game, there's not that many. Which leads to the point of already existing heads. What happens to them? NT just shows up like 'Sorry you're demoted for being a member of a race. Go fuck yourself, stinky cat.' or something like that, or would they be exempt from the change? If you plan on retconning their Head promotion as a whole, that'd be a whole new beast because it'd retcon entire character arcs and other already existing conflicts.

[Alberyk]

Which leads to the point of already existing heads. What happens to them? NT just shows up like 'Sorry you're demoted for being a member of a race. Go fuck yourself, stinky cat.' or something like that, or would they be exempt from the change? If you plan on retconning their Head promotion as a whole, that'd be a whole new beast because it'd retcon entire character arcs and other already existing conflicts.

 

They can still play their characters, as a non head of staff, and I do believe it is a really small number of players that will be affected by this change. We could handle this change without a retcon, in the same manner that similar ones were done.

Skull's point is also correct, NT has close, at least public-wise, relations with the People's republic, and they are really racist against Zhan and the others. It would make sense for this to be a thing in the universe without doubt. One of the main points of some of the tajaran races is that they are victim of oppression and are seem as lower by others, and people are fully aware of this when they create a tajaran character.

[Synnono]

It's always uncomfortable to try and retroactively enforce a societal standard, especially on facilities in space, far far away from the conflicts and cultural norms of that society. I don't see a reason why humans should care which subspecies of Tajara get to do what, so long as the candidate proves they can do the job. It's a bit different for other species - Vaurca have their brain-damaged drones (and are extremely new and untrusted in this part of the galaxy), and machines are generally purpose-built in a way that restricts them, but until relatively recently, a Tajara was a Tajara. To a human, one looks more or less like another. Why do some end up in the favor of NT while others don't?

I don't really think any of the factions on Adhomai have enough leverage against NT to impose a kind of unspoken restriction like this. If the changes aren't being written in that way from the lore side, then they seem like they'll be developed in on the dev side to underscore the idea that players must play out a clumsy racial conflict, regardless of whether or not that is why they're interested in the race. While people with the whitelist can and should be aware of the believability issues that surround exceptions to the rules, it's up to them to demonstrate that, whether or not they play someone following those rules. It's also up to the lore team whether or not to permit it, and to maintain their understanding of the characters they curate.

I'd prefer no changes, mostly because I can't rationalize them. I think that forcing societal issues onto people at the character creation screen or config will generally result in more poorly-played conflict, not more worthwhile or enjoyable conflict. Any changes would also affect pre-existing characters, as other people have pointed out in the thread. If whitelistees do not engage themselves with the lore of their whitelist to a satisfactory standard, there is already a system in place for handling that. Sorting out exceptions to the rules indiscriminately feels lazy on our part, and for no apparent gain.

[Mofo1995]

It doesn't have to be retroactive or a retconn. ALA terrorists just carried out a high profile canon attack with deaths against the station a couple weeks ago. Several AdhomaiChronicle articles claim Zhan are prone to rebellion and violence based on their race. Something which, while objectively untrue, is the orthodoxy held by the post Al Mari PRA. Whether through buying the PRA memes (Tajara are aliens and shouldnt be held to the same standard as humans) or cynically recognizing thr anti-Zhan rhetoric of their puppet state paints a target on the corporation by Zhan, they could implement a new policy rather than any retconn to lore.

That's assuming its enacted. The voting component is just one part of the upcoming decision, discussion feedback matters too, so speak up if you have opinions to share.

[Coalf]

Time I give my own two cents.

I'll be honest, I was the one who supported the first split, i.e "Only Hharar and Njarir" and coincidentally I was one to suggest that only Njarir get to be heads which was shot down by JB and others which was the best decision looking at this feedback. (Although I did expect more flate-rate Tajara players)

To it then.

"Why now?"

Because nobody had the balls before and it should have been a thing from the start.

"It limits roleplay."

Yes but the mistake is thinking that species are something else than a bundle of arbitrary limitations with an established backstory.

If we wanted to give everyone "As many roleplay opportunities as possible" we would have just deleted the Tajara and made them a human faction, the restrictions that we set in place is what effectively makes the species A species.

IPCs not feeling emotions, Dionea being averse to violence, Unathi upholding honor codes, Dominians following edicts, Elyrians having a certain skin tone, these restrictions is what makes these factions and species THE RESPECTIVE factions and species. Look at Eridani and how much everyone complained when we let players be whatever species they wanted, everyone suddenly took an issue with "freedom of roleplay" because those players were "mis-representing the faction".

Restrictions is what makes a species THE species and what makes it possible for a lore-developer to tell a certain kind of a story and carry a narrative. Speaking of.

"Why at all?"

Because we need to enforce the narrative.

In recent years people have started getting bored of the war and struggle on Adhomai, something which is appearing more and more with "when will it end?" threads being made in monthly intervals. And when there is a leak, the whole boat sinks.

The disinterest in the war has lead to disregard of the political factions, the disregard of political factions has in turn lead to people ignoring racial or factional biases on station which leads to Tajara basically being faster, sweaty russians with a speech impedement. (So normal russians)

The species in general ALREADY suffers from player freedom, while IPCs, Vaurca, Diona and even Skrell have enforced alien behaviour, Tajara really don't outside of a few quirks they have to follow.

"Why don't you just end the war and focus on something new?"

The end is coming, but it is WAY more believable for a faction with which NT publicly aligns with having some say in what happens to their citizens in a foreign country than just suddenly stopping the war on shaky grounds of "I was bored of it".

Not only that but we're building a new foundation with this, it is hard to express a "fight against opression and the system" when the opression simply doesn't exist and if "Players don't want to be racist" then how else can we express this than making the setting more welcoming to such attitude, do note we aren't FORCING Njarir and Hharar players to BE racist towards Zhan-Khazan or M'sai I would actually say the opossite as the saying goes "Success breeds envy", if anything Zhan-khazan and M'sai will be more prone towards disliking their more privileged bretheren.

"But there aren't many/any Zhan heads"

Well then this change won't be an issue.

I think that covers everything.

[Garnascus]

I will almost always support job restrictions based on race. The station is way too much a liberal hellhole. Its hard to get behind any sort of racial conflict when its not reflected at all mechanically. I do not think M'sai should be allowed to be the head of security either. Lets not be disingenuous in trying to argue that they are "the least educated" role or something. They are a command member and functionally the most important command member because they and their team have to deal with all the spooky shit that tries to mess with the other departments. You can justify literally anything with "IC stuff". We should first look to how the game is actually played and go from there.

[Bauser]

Can we take a moment to just appreciate how the definition of "liberal hellhole" is "place where people's opportunities are not restricted by their race or the circumstances of their birth"

I don't have a strong opinion on this policy either way, but I am ideologically a little bit at odds with the idea that we should change players to suit the lore instead of changing lore to suit the players. Just strikes me as a slight misplacement of priorities. But like I said, not a huge deal to me.

[Munks]

Restrict female Unathi too

[Ornias]

I don't have a strong opinion on this policy either way, but I am ideologically a little bit at odds with the idea that we should change players to suit the lore instead of changing lore to suit the players. Just strikes me as a slight misplacement of priorities. But like I said, not a huge deal to me.

 

it is the lore changing to suit the players, because we're having a poll.

[Coalf]

Can we take a moment to just appreciate how the definition of "liberal hellhole" is "place where people's opportunities are not restricted by their race or the circumstances of their birth"

Sadly that is one of the effects of equality on storytelling.

 

 

I don't have a strong opinion on this policy either way, but I am ideologically a little bit at odds with the idea that we should change players to suit the lore instead of changing lore to suit the players. Just strikes me as a slight misplacement of priorities. But like I said, not a huge deal to me.

The thing is, we aren't.

Players were already expected to follow these head guidelines, Tajara ARE underdeveloped and it is one of their BIGGEST differences compared to other species and so even Hharar and Njarir heads should have been a VERY rare sight, franly it has gotten a bit out of control mainly with the M'sai characters not so much with Zhan, it's why I voted for the first option.

Instead we're doing the metaphorical Gengis Khan approach and cutting the metaphorical head off of anyone metaphorically taller then the metaphorical cart.

So in a twist of dramatic irony we're fixing our issues with Equality by making everyone from those species equally not allowed to play the roles.

 

Restrict female Unathi too

Need to talk to JB and his deputy Kaed for that one.

EDITED: Fucked up my quotes.