Dismiss the ruling that roboticists cannot do RND

[Scheveningen]

I'm breaking my forum hiatus because I was finally told by an administrator that I cannot do RND as a roboticist, or even build RND machinery in robotics to streamline the process of actually being able to play my job in building mechs, upgrading station-bound robots and other relevant tasks. I have only done this recently in situations where nobody was in RND, and exclusively in that case only.

I want to establish a few principles, firstly: I've been playing both robotics and scientist (RND for the last one, particularly), and the relationship works perfectly if both parties are absolutely at the top of their game, totally understand what they're doing, to the point of both simultaneously understanding it is a mutually beneficial relationship that they contribute effort towards improving the efficiency of the both of themselves. 
That's a pretty big if, knowing how humans are. This relationship almost never fucking happens. It is one round out of 10 at best. The other 9 rounds is not having a scientist know what they're doing, or having a scientist who either hasn't bothered to check the wiki on how to do RND at a basic level, or someone who simply hasn't found my guide here on the forums: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vZOQyhClbj7ieIWp8_GGC1tGEpkJCN4W97k6dD5I6tA/
RND is an incredibly crucial linchpin. Either it has to be topped out to a reasonable extent, or else robotics and half the science department will not be productive.

Secondly, Robotics does not have a job until the RND levels are increased to a certain standard, and the robotics fabricators/circuit printer are upgraded to optimum. There is no debating this. It takes 2x as much steel and 5x as much time to produce a single robot arm. Familiar with how time accumulates over a dilation of time on an online server? Unless a server is incredibly powerful and your connection to said server is optimal, you'll notice how the server counts seconds is not synchronized appropriately to how seconds are counted in real life. Let me make clear: IT WILL TAKE 50 SHEETS OF STEEL AND 15 MINUTES TO PRODUCE A FULL CYBORG BECAUSE THE TIMERS ATTACHED TO FABRICATORS DO NOT COUNT REAL-TIME SECONDS.

That's in caps and bold text to ensure everyone reads that, understands that, and commits it to memory. Don't believe me? Boot up a private test server and try yourself without upgrading the fabricators in robotics, and do not spawn yourself any extra steel, only use what you have at the start. God forbid you try to build mechs without anyone in RND. They are far pricier than a single cyborg chassis -- and you can't even build the necessary circuits for them on your own! Do not even try to build mechs or a single cyborg chassis without the fabricator upgrades. It is needless waste of resources and time, this isn't a debate that you can just simply do your job without the fabricator upgrades, as actual gameplay will immediately disappoint you.

Thirdly, roboticist is the only job in the game which cannot function without an absolute dependence on another job slot doing their job in building up and synchronizing the research servers, and then hand delivering components to the fabricators to allow robotics to be able to do bare minimum. Every other fucking job in the game operates on its own just fine without 'goodies'. Security doesn't need LWAPs, for example, they'll do just fine without them as they have a wide and varied set of tools. The janitor doesn't need supplies from RND, they can use a mop and clean everything in due time. They're not working at optimum efficiency but at least they have something to do. Engineering acts on its own all the time. Hell, they hack into atmos fairly regularly just to optimize the pipes. I won't snitch on that because they're operating on good faith and just making atmos less shit than it is at round start. That's being useful.

Fourthly, to run down exactly what options you have at the start of the round if you don't want to waste resources, but assuming you cannot just get machine boards from tech storage to do RND yourself. You can:

Spoiler

1. Make two cleanbots. You have now used 9 sheets of steel to make two robot arms.
2. Make two medibots. You have now used 18 sheets of steel.
3. You can try to make one borg, but at that point you've used up 68 sheets of steel. Nice! Wanna try to make another one, assuming anyone is ghosting around robotics at the start of the round? (unlikely, at the start of a round, as no one has died) 118 sheets of steel used up! COOL!
4. You can try to make circuits except the limited selection of things in the starter circuitry kit does not allow for very complex devices. Oh, did I also mention the starter circuitry kit only starts with a small frame? Good luck doing anything interesting with it. You will make an advanced light/translator in two minutes and now you have nothing better to do.
5. That's it. There's nothing else you can do besides get out of your department and not do any part of your job if there is nobody doing RND. This is your literal only impact on the round because of some arbitrary restriction placed by the admins who would apparently rather have 0 powergaming incidents occur by restricting everyone from doing anything creative to deal with a mechanical problem of their job rather than dealing with powergaming on a case-by-case basis when it arises.

This is an admin bandaid problem that isn't even necessary to exist in the first place. If we're asking the crucial questions:
1. Why the fuck are the admins wholesale banning roboticists from trying to improve the quality of life of roboticist gameplay? Is it out of fear of 'powergaming'? - which is plainly obvious as a roboticist building combat gear with the express purpose of dunking on other people in the round.
2. Why do the admins allow it when atmospheric technicians set-up the engine when there are no engineers, but roboticists cannot fill out RND when there's no scientists? Atmos (and by extension, the entire fucking station) cannot function without power. Robotics cannot function without RND being done. If it's contextual and justified when the atmospheric techs set-up the engine, why is it so bad when robotics does it so they can fulfill their original job description?

There's an easy solution for all of this. Remove the policy banning roboticists from RND, but require it that any roboticist needs to adminhelp whenever they're building RND equipment within robotics. The player of a roboticist should be spoken to and disciplined when they do not tell the administrators they're building said equipment in robotics. This gives the admins the ability to check on robotics on occasion to see if they've built anything with large impact on the round.

Either that or we can remove the policy and not give a shit about what goes into circulation and allow everything to be dealt with ICly. If someone's powergaming like a shitter in robotics, they should be reported and banned regardless whether or not they make an RND hub in robotics. As a general rule it should only happen if nobody is in RND, though, it's the rule I try to instate for myself when I did it. It's fucking stupid that I cannot enjoy robotics because an admin arbitrarily told me that "I cannot do the thing" with no consideration for the context as to what my character's skills and background are.

Some closing notes:
I do not give a fuck if I can go play another job, I developed a method to better enjoy robotics. Every other job in the game does not operate on this stupid diceroll of who is playing in what job. If I log onto play robotics I expect to be able to do what I can within reason to improve the enjoyment and experience of my own character's job so that I, the player, can actually enjoy it, and likewise positively impact the rounds of others by contributing to their quality of life. To do that I need to do other things to improve my own job's quality of life. You cannot be charitable when you possess nothing. I enjoy robotics with the playstyle I've developed. It is fucking bullshit that I've been told that my style of playing it is somehow "against the rules" despite that I have not yet once broken the rules while playing as a roboticist, nor have I intended to even try to break the rules.

Why does everyone else get to play the game with their job but I do not? It is ridiculous to expect that every case is automatically put into a category of "Good" and "bad" and somehow even when I've not said a single word to a single character in the first 20 minutes of shift start-up, what I am doing is "bad".

Edited October 7, 2019 by Scheveningen

[Scheveningen]

my math was incorrect

just the cyborg torso and exoskeleton cost 90000 steel combined. that is 45 sheets of steel by itself, without the fabricators being upgraded with appropriate manipulators to reduce the production costs. The rest of the limbs cost another 66000 steel, combined with 90000 is around 15600 steel, which is 75.3 steel sheets.

 

[Bygonehero]

42 minutes ago, Scheveningen said:

I'm breaking my forum hiatus because I was finally told by an administrator that I cannot do RND as a roboticist, or even build RND machinery in robotics to streamline the process of actually being able to play my job in building mechs, upgrading station-bound robots and other relevant tasks. I have only done this recently in situations where nobody was in RND, and exclusively in that case only.

I want to establish a few principles, firstly: I've been playing both robotics and scientist (RND for the last one, particularly), and the relationship works perfectly if both parties are absolutely at the top of their game, totally understand what they're doing, to the point of both simultaneously understanding it is a mutually beneficial relationship that they contribute effort towards improving the efficiency of the both of themselves. 
That's a pretty big if, knowing how humans are. This relationship almost never fucking happens. It is one round out of 10 at best. The other 9 rounds is not having a scientist know what they're doing, or having a scientist who either hasn't bothered to check the wiki on how to do RND at a basic level, or someone who simply hasn't found my guide here on the forums: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vZOQyhClbj7ieIWp8_GGC1tGEpkJCN4W97k6dD5I6tA/
RND is an incredibly crucial linchpin. Either it has to be topped out to a reasonable extent, or else robotics and half the science department will not be productive.

Secondly, Robotics does not have a job until the RND levels are increased to a certain standard, and the robotics fabricators/circuit printer are upgraded to optimum. There is no debating this. It takes 2x as much steel and 5x as much time to produce a single robot arm. Familiar with how time accumulates over a dilation of time on an online server? Unless a server is incredibly powerful and your connection to said server is optimal, you'll notice how the server counts seconds is not synchronized appropriately to how seconds are counted in real life. Let me make clear: IT WILL TAKE 50 SHEETS OF STEEL AND 15 MINUTES TO PRODUCE A FULL CYBORG BECAUSE THE TIMERS ATTACHED TO FABRICATORS DO NOT COUNT REAL-TIME SECONDS.

That's in caps and bold text to ensure everyone reads that, understands that, and commits it to memory. Don't believe me? Boot up a private test server and try yourself without upgrading the fabricators in robotics, and do not spawn yourself any extra steel, only use what you have at the start. God forbid you try to build mechs without anyone in RND. They are far pricier than a single cyborg chassis -- and you can't even build the necessary circuits for them on your own! Do not even try to build mechs or a single cyborg chassis without the fabricator upgrades. It is needless waste of resources and time, this isn't a debate that you can just simply do your job without the fabricator upgrades, as actual gameplay will immediately disappoint you.

Thirdly, roboticist is the only job in the game which cannot function without an absolute dependence on another job slot doing their job in building up and synchronizing the research servers, and then hand delivering components to the fabricators to allow robotics to be able to do bare minimum. Every other fucking job in the game operates on its own just fine without 'goodies'. Security doesn't need LWAPs, for example, they'll do just fine without them as they have a wide and varied set of tools. The janitor doesn't need supplies from RND, they can use a mop and clean everything in due time. They're not working at optimum efficiency but at least they have something to do. Engineering acts on its own all the time. Hell, they hack into atmos fairly regularly just to optimize the pipes. I won't snitch on that because they're operating on good faith and just making atmos less shit than it is at round start. That's being useful.

Fourthly, to run down exactly what options you have at the start of the round if you don't want to waste resources, but assuming you cannot just get machine boards from tech storage to do RND yourself. You can:

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Make two cleanbots. You have now used 9 sheets of steel to make two robot arms.
2. Make two medibots. You have now used 18 sheets of steel.
3. You can try to make one borg, but at that point you've used up 68 sheets of steel. Nice! Wanna try to make another one, assuming anyone is ghosting around robotics at the start of the round? (unlikely, at the start of a round, as no one has died) 118 sheets of steel used up! COOL!
4. You can try to make circuits except the limited selection of things in the starter circuitry kit does not allow for very complex devices. Oh, did I also mention the starter circuitry kit only starts with a small frame? Good luck doing anything interesting with it. You will make an advanced light/translator in two minutes and now you have nothing better to do.
5. That's it. There's nothing else you can do besides get out of your department and not do any part of your job if there is nobody doing RND. This is your literal only impact on the round because of some arbitrary restriction placed by the admins who would apparently rather have 0 powergaming incidents occur by restricting everyone from doing anything creative to deal with a mechanical problem of their job rather than dealing with powergaming on a case-by-case basis when it arises.

This is an admin bandaid problem that isn't even necessary to exist in the first place. If we're asking the crucial questions:
1. Why the fuck are the admins wholesale banning roboticists from trying to improve the quality of life of roboticist gameplay? Is it out of fear of 'powergaming'? - which is plainly obvious as a roboticist building combat gear with the express purpose of dunking on other people in the round.
2. Why do the admins allow it when atmospheric technicians set-up the engine when there are no engineers, but roboticists cannot fill out RND when there's no scientists? Atmos (and by extension, the entire fucking station) cannot function without power. Robotics cannot function without RND being done. If it's contextual and justified when the atmospheric techs set-up the engine, why is it so bad when robotics does it so they can fulfill their original job description?

There's an easy solution for all of this. Remove the policy banning roboticists from RND, but require it that any roboticist needs to adminhelp whenever they're building RND equipment within robotics. The player of a roboticist should be spoken to and disciplined when they do not tell the administrators they're building said equipment in robotics. This gives the admins the ability to check on robotics on occasion to see if they've built anything with large impact on the round.

Either that or we can remove the policy and not give a shit about what goes into circulation and allow everything to be dealt with ICly. If someone's powergaming like a shitter in robotics, they should be reported and banned regardless whether or not they make an RND hub in robotics. As a general rule it should only happen if nobody is in RND, though, it's the rule I try to instate for myself when I did it. It's fucking stupid that I cannot enjoy robotics because an admin arbitrarily told me that "I cannot do the thing" with no consideration for the context as to what my character's skills and background are.

Some closing notes:
I do not give a fuck if I can go play another job, I developed a method to better enjoy robotics. Every other job in the game does not operate on this stupid diceroll of who is playing in what job. If I log onto play robotics I expect to be able to do what I can within reason to improve the enjoyment and experience of my own character's job so that I, the player, can actually enjoy it, and likewise positively impact the rounds of others by contributing to their quality of life. To do that I need to do other things to improve my own job's quality of life. You cannot be charitable when you possess nothing. I enjoy robotics with the playstyle I've developed. It is fucking bullshit that I've been told that my style of playing it is somehow "against the rules" despite that I have not yet once broken the rules while playing as a roboticist, nor have I intended to even try to break the rules.

Why does everyone else get to play the game with their job but I do not? It is ridiculous to expect that every case is automatically put into a category of "Good" and "bad" and somehow even when I've not said a single word to a single character in the first 20 minutes of shift start-up, what I am doing is "bad".

Roboticists arent scientists. They shouldnt be doing scientist stuff. This is true for every job, but too often, its ignored because it doesn't negatively impact everyone. One of my friends new to the server notes how job roles in medical are largely irrelevant, but in your case your expecting new players to play optimally, in a repetitive way. You are also using the limited resource, Steel/Glass as a metric by which to measure success in robotics. As a resource, there are many ways to obtain it that do not include or are related to building RnD, I am not sure of the connection you were trying to make, but you can clarify. As for powergaming...

 

The definition of powergaming

Quote

```Powergaming (or power gaming) is a style of interacting with games or game-like systems, particularly video games, boardgames, and role-playing games, with the aim of maximising progress towards a specific goal. Other players may consider this disruptive when done to the exclusion of all other considerations, such as storytelling, atmosphere and camaraderie. When focusing on the letter of the rules over the spirit of the rules, it is often seen as unsporting, un-fun, or unsociable. This behaviour is most often found in games with a wide range of game features, lengthy campaigns or prize tournaments such as massively multiplayer or collectible games.[1] Those wishing to discuss the behavior without pejorative connotation may use the neutral term optimization.```

Quote

In online text-based role-playing games that emphasize collaborative role-play over acquiring levels or skills, a player can be described as a powergamer if he or she presumes or declares that his or her own action against another player character is successful without giving the other player character the freedom to act on his or her own prerogative. They may also be a player who tries to force others to participate in unwanted role-playing. For instance, a player who unilaterally describes his character as doing something with (or to) another character that would usually require the other to play along — such as having a fight or a sexual encounter — is considered to be powergaming.[5] In such games, in which a sense of community and rapport between players is seen as crucial and conducive to the game's overall well-being, powergaming is generally regarded as extremely offensive behaviour if it is not stated in the rules as being a bannable offense. It is often seen as synonymous with twinking or godmoding.

Your original post goes on how other people do not play how your optimal guide describes. This is certainly not conducive to overall gameplay experience in a roleplaying game.

EDIT: Added a specific example definition in my original post in a second quote

Edited October 8, 2019 by Bygonehero

[Scheveningen]

I don't really care if people are following my guide or not, that's not the point. The problem is when researchers board, state, "I know nothing about RND", and for a few rounds don't really try to learn something unfamiliar, which leads to a crucial task that affects much of research not being done. This impacts robotics who can't do anything but wait some more!

In regards to resource management, optimal usage of it is required if you want to continue playing past making a single cyborg (75.3 sheets of steel worth, mechs are worth far more). Otherwise your gameplay stops and you're either required to beg to get the steel/glass from EVA, or wait another 15 minutes (best case scenario) for cargo to deliver a shipment of steel/glass.

[Cnaym]

Idea, not ruling:
Give them a small handheld analyzer that only goes to certain levels for  lowpop situations.

Add a research disk to cargo. Let them order it after like 15 minutes, so normal R&D would be more useful, but it's not required (again not all levels)

Scavenge the warehouse for upgrade parts (you can do that already  )

Use an RD for lowpop (I do that to get both running, conflicts with "focus on robotics" since you are also command in that case)

Current situation: Robotics is the single most strongest lab, if it has materials and research. I do not see you abusing it, but we had problems with it in the past. A single mech can make or break a lowpop round. I know that there are changes to things like the mounted RCD that are heavily required in my opinion since it's broken AF right now. I'd love to hear some other suggestions as "allow them into R&D and do their job, too", I'm a friend of new ideas

[Bygonehero]

39 minutes ago, Cnaym said:

Idea, not ruling:
Give them a small handheld analyzer that only goes to certain levels for  lowpop situations.

Add a research disk to cargo. Let them order it after like 15 minutes, so normal R&D would be more useful, but it's not required (again not all levels)

Scavenge the warehouse for upgrade parts (you can do that already  )

Use an RD for lowpop (I do that to get both running, conflicts with "focus on robotics" since you are also command in that case)

Current situation: Robotics is the single most strongest lab, if it has materials and research. I do not see you abusing it, but we had problems with it in the past. A single mech can make or break a lowpop round. I know that there are changes to things like the mounted RCD that are heavily required in my opinion since it's broken AF right now. I'd love to hear some other suggestions as "allow them into R&D and do their job, too", I'm a friend of new ideas

Basing Departmental resources on the server population history is feasible by code. With it, every single contrivance for the sake of lowpop can be solved. To me, it would be the single greatest PR merged to the server in the last two years, as it would without question resolve inconsistencies in rules in leu of convince during lowpop. 

Engineering: could get pre-setup engines/atmos in a Population History tracking system, provide more access to the few engineers that are around.

Medical: could get more access generally to their department, more resources/ premade-prestocked chems.

Science: See Medical.

Cargo:See Medical, perhaps shorter Cargo times, more resource density in asteroids.

Security: More powerful armor/ More ammo for weapons

Civilian: See Medical.

Coding this however would be challenging, and the mapping involved would be tediously mind numbing unless the changes can somehow be handled by code. 

Until some PR to Address lowpop comes around tho, I don't think its benefitial to everyone to make blanket statements for a role for the sake of lowpop. The allowances given on lowpop is of itself a different standard that admins consider. Its not useful to think of average play during deadhour terms, as it is, by its definition the time when the fewest members of the community actually play.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Bygonehero

[Scheveningen]

Forgot to put this in there or it isn't clear enough, my preferred resolution to this current problem with the job is to allow robos to do RND when the science department has no scientists, with no other consolations. They should not do so when there are actual scientists who specialize in RND. Roboticists should be able to do RND as a last absolute resort but avoiding the stepping on other players' toes should obviously be considered.

[niennab]

I think if it were to come down to it, I would make the suggestion that Roboticists are allowed to do research up to the Integrated Circuit Printer. Why?

Robotics is a department that's not only relient on one, but two departments. Mining and Science. If either of them decide they don't want to do their job or they're simply not on, Robotistry greatly suffers. Worse yet I tend to play on the low pop hours so I have gone shifts being a glorified Visitor. This has honestly 50% of why I've been playing Bartender as of late.

If we have the integrated circuit printer at least we have something we can do!

[Faris]

I'd honestly prefer a mechanical solution to this. Start scientific at a level where any scientist can raise it with just steel and glass. 

[Skull132]

7 minutes ago, Aboshedab said:

I'd honestly prefer a mechanical solution to this. Start scientific at a level where any scientist can raise it with just steel and glass. 

I might be missing most of the thread, because fuck reading that at 9 in the morning. But this is already the case? Just with glass, steel, and polyacid (of which you have an infinite supply), you can get pretty good levels.

[Scheveningen]

2 hours ago, niennab said:

I think if it were to come down to it, I would make the suggestion that Roboticists are allowed to do research up to the Integrated Circuit Printer. Why?

Robotics is a department that's not only relient on one, but two departments. Mining and Science. If either of them decide they don't want to do their job or they're simply not on, Robotistry greatly suffers. Worse yet I tend to play on the low pop hours so I have gone shifts being a glorified Visitor. This has honestly 50% of why I've been playing Bartender as of late.

If we have the integrated circuit printer at least we have something we can do!

I try to do RND up to that, and only to produce an RPED/machine components so that I can do basic aspects of the job.

I have been told however that an exception has been made recently and that robotics can make a protolathe in their work area, just not a destructive analgeiser.

[Scheveningen]

46 minutes ago, Skull132 said:

I might be missing most of the thread, because fuck reading that at 9 in the morning. But this is already the case? Just with glass, steel, and polyacid (of which you have an infinite supply), you can get pretty good levels.

My guide lists a certain "pre-mining" path that is pretty optimized for the moment. It puts the levels at high thresholds that allow you to theoretically make 80% of the RND equipment not counting mining resource requirements.

[ben10083]

Personally I feel that the development of RnD should be fair game, so the roboticist can build the machines to help streamline mech creation and upgrade their machines. However I feel you should try to raise tech levels unless there are no scientists doing RnD.

[Doxxmedearly]

Frankly this just seems to be another reason research should start with good or maxed levels. The minigame is tedious, useless, and robotics can do nothing without it. 

[SatinsPristOTD]

"Roboticists aren't Scientists"

Actually, they are. Robotics is.... more or less applied Science to Engineering. Let's talk degrees and how they work.

So we, typically, take quite a few classes that simply "aren't required" for our degree. My Psych degree came with six, yes SIX, history classes due to how it all panned out. Do I need six history classes under my belt? Not at all. Six history classes made it where I could have duel degree'd in political science had the college let me.

Which brings me to the even more hilarious point that some degrees are actual carbon copies of the others, save maybe one or two differences in math or language arts.

Is it highly possible a Roboticists/biomechanical/mechatronic engineer has taken the required science classes to get RND to SOME form of level to make themselves useful? Absolutely. I can teach you World and U.S History if gave the time to plan the class properly, yet MY degree is in neither of those.

It's ridiculous to tell me a Science department character has not taken classes (in their course of college) that would benefit RND. I'm not saying they'll do it perfectly, optimize it, or get the levels high. But it is FEASIBLE that they'd be able to run the lab at a "meh" level.

So, telling a Roboticists "no, you don't know Science at all" just doesn't make sense when it comes to how college courses work.

[sonicgotnuked]

3 hours ago, Doxxmedearly said:

Frankly this just seems to be another reason research should start with good or maxed levels. The minigame is tedious, useless, and robotics can do nothing without it. 

The system needs a rework, not a free give all solution to what is the most powerful department mechanically. It's designed to avoid having science arm up 20 minutes in the round. The grind is annoying, myself as a science main, I understand. I also understand why it's still a system.

 

This free give solution only works for a specific case by case bases. Cult went under a similar change a long time ago to remove word research because it was buggy,  had little indication of the correct words, and generally locked down cult for 30 minutes or an entire round if everyone didn't know how to research words. This will not work with science because of the sheer power it can have on a round. You can make some pretty scary stuff. If we add this type of system, we would have to nerf a massive amount of content to balance it.

4 hours ago, ben10083 said:

Personally I feel that the development of RnD should be fair game, so the roboticist can build the machines to help streamline mech creation and upgrade their machines. However I feel you should try to raise tech levels unless there are no scientists doing RnD.

If on dead hour, no science, I agree. Robotics should be able to get some protolathe production and do some RnD to upgrade machines and generally help out with the civilian side of thing. What should be regulated and enforced is robotics giving Security a fully loaded Durand with some explosive cannons and heavy weapons during let's just say... small tension, a peace wiz, or general lack of antagonists. Unless you're traitor, merc, or raider, you generally don't have access to ions to be any sort of use against a fully loaded mech if you do suddenly decide to start conflict.

 

Now on another side of things, for compromise, robotics would become fair game for antags. If they show signs of building a military mech? Take it over, blow it up, incapacitate the science crew with interaction and warning before hand of course. All you really would need to tell them. "Fuck with military equipment, you're lab is going to become a hole"

 

In general, something should be drafted up in directive four that helps regulate science. Make weapons and other equipment a command approval of captain level to be handing military grade stuff out. 

 

I see it as this. Want to make a display of heavy weapons? Feel free. Just don't let security use it.

Edited October 8, 2019 by sonicgotnuked

[ben10083]

19 minutes ago, sonicgotnuked said:

In general, something should be drafted up in directive four that helps regulate science. Make weapons and other equipment a command approval of captain level to be handing military grade stuff out. 

Already a thing, weapons can only be used for science purposes and cannot leave the science department.

[sonicgotnuked]

18 minutes ago, ben10083 said:

Already a thing, weapons can only be used for science purposes and cannot leave the science department.

It's generally not too regulated. We should have something that adds a little detail. The RD for example can do it. The HoS can also give the release if offered.

Perhaps just give a slight edit to 'captain level decision'

Quote

To clarify the expectations of research and supply staff, and the proper usage of the equipment they are responsible for.

Qualified researchers in a given field of science are authorized to conduct experiments in any way they deem appropriate. However, unless authorization for their release is granted by command staff or an emergency situation requires it, the works and derivatives of the research department are to remain within their respective labs and testing areas.

The supply department is expected to store and distribute warehouse supplies to the station's departments as deemed appropriate. The stock of the station's warehouse is not to be regarded as contraband if it remains in the warehouse, or is being transported to an appropriate destination.

 

[Scheveningen]

I do not want to wait 3 fucking months for an RND rework. That is the point of this thread.

[sonicgotnuked]

I was speaking in general terms. 

[Happy_Fox]

13 hours ago, Skull132 said:

I might be missing most of the thread, because fuck reading that at 9 in the morning. But this is already the case? Just with glass, steel, and polyacid (of which you have an infinite supply), you can get pretty good levels.

You can get up to a considerably powerful point using only steel/glass -  really the majority of RnD only requires steel glass. Enough levels to produce up to Combat Hardsuit circuits for example.

[Zundy]

As long as scientists can work robotics if there's no roboticists around.

[DaTimeSmog]

If it came to Robotics being able to do RnD then we might as well completely remove the role, as it would just be a scientist but with more access at that point.

[ben10083]

19 hours ago, Zundy said:

As long as scientists can work robotics if there's no roboticists around.

Unlike a scientist, a roboticist completely depends on other roles to be able to do their job, even in the case of RnD, as RnD can get almost max tech without any outside assistance.

18 hours ago, DaTimeSmog said:

If it came to Robotics being able to do RnD then we might as well completely remove the role, as it would just be a scientist but with more access at that point.

How do you feel about the idea of permitting Robotics to operate proto and auto lathes, but no research?

[DaTimeSmog]

3 hours ago, ben10083 said:

How do you feel about the idea of permitting Robotics to operate proto and auto lathes, but no research?

Lathes should be part of their job by default, this is especially the case with the mechatronic engineer, but research? Fuck no, absolutely no. Yes I get that things can be boring as fuck during lowpop and you want to progress but even with research levels you're not going to do much as Roboticist aside from having an excuse to now shit out mechs at every moment of danger or when you feel like it.