Tweaking contractor job positions

[Alberyk]

Feedback topic for this pr: https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/8653

What the pr does?

-necropolis contractors can't be in security anymore. Why: necropolis contractors were a giant asspull and them having security operations is not even cited in their page.

-idris can't be in cargo anymore. Why: they can already be in service and security, I decided to remove cargo because it is the one that probably plays less with their ethos.

-hephaestus can't be in research anymore, with the exception of robotics. Why: as much it makes sense due to robotics or whatever, we already have two megacorps in research.

I aim to do the following things with this pr:

-makes so each contractor only has two department to pick from.

-reinforce the themes of the megacorps by making them far more specialized

[Roostercat]

I don't agree with removing Heph research. Removing it for the meme reason of "bloat" is honestly ridiculous to me. They get very few people who play them as is and should at least be able to be roboticist. You can argue Tajara is bloat but we aren't removing any of that what with all their subtypes and languages and everything.  As well as putting a 2 per corp restriction on contractors being odd to me in general, as I also do not recall many people ever having a problem with it to begin with. I agree with no Idris cargo and no necrosec, despite the fact that annihilates quite a few characters.

[Alberyk]

2 minutes ago, Roostercat said:

I don't agree with removing Heph research. Removing it for the meme reason of "bloat" is honestly ridiculous to me.

Never said anything about bloat, re-read the topic, please.

2 minutes ago, Roostercat said:

They get very few people who play them as is and should at least be able to be roboticist.

We still remain with the problem of research being filled with three different contractors, I would be fine if other megacorp was removed from it, however.

3 minutes ago, Roostercat said:

You can argue Tajara is bloat but we aren't removing any of that what with all their subtypes and languages and everything.

Stawman argument. The substypes and languages have their own representation that does not overlap with anything else.

3 minutes ago, Roostercat said:

As well as putting a 2 per corp restriction on contractors being odd to me in general, as I also do not recall many people ever having a problem with it to begin with.

That is to reinforced their themes and ethos, and stop them being spread thin.

 

[Roostercat]

1 minute ago, Alberyk said:

Never said anything about bloat, re-read the topic, please.

 

 

 

 

 

[Alberyk]

1 minute ago, Roostercat said:

 

 

 

Never said anything about bloat, re-read the topic, please. Posting whatever I said in some affiliated discord is pretty much going out of the tangent here. Even if we could qualify this as bloat, because other contractors are already in said department doing the thing that the other megacorp is somehow meant to be the best.

[GreenBoi]

As much as I prefer there being no Research Contractors (literally the purpose and most sensitive part of the entire station), this is probably the closest we can have to that dream.

The corps are not buddy-buddy with eachother and are always planning to grow through whatever means necesary. Just because they partner up or send contractos doesn't mean they're not still at each other's throats. Allowing contractors into more than two departments allows for nothing but easier espionage. Can you imagine how easy it is for Hephaestus to transport data or materials? They literally have agents in Cargo, Research, and Engineering- it'd be easy as fuck. Got to restrict their power somehow.

[canon35]

Heavily agree with this merge. 

-Necropolis just MAKES weapons. I don't see why they're shelving out their own dudes to other companies. Idris is doing this because they need the money, EMPC does this because it's their big thing. Plus, it might cut down on the amount of edgelords we get there. 

-I did not even know Idris can be in cargo. It's extremely odd for a service and banking oriented company. 

-In agreement with Green here about research contractors. We shouldn't have them in research AT ALL. It's the most sensitive part of the station and them being there would be a massive risk. While this likely won't be coming any time soon, a removal of Hephaestus would be a nice step in that direction while also concentrating the contractor's purpose. 

All in all, good shit. 

[Alberyk]

I changed some stuff. Hephaestus can be roboticists now, but can't be scientists. The rest of the changes will likely remain.

[Chada1]

I think Idris would've made sense as a quartermaster with the banking detail, since it's by and large p. much assisting the HoP with managing the cash flow and stuff, but it's not really much of an issue to see that go too. 

[Caelphon]

I'd have to agree with what @GreenBoi has stated, Research is a heavily sensetive area (mechanically, meh - but with Lore they likely had some sort of Bluespace/Phoron Science that is super valuable to steal). Necropolis seems to cut a few characters out, but you mentioned it doesn't say anywhere that they shoot their owns weapons - so I dont see why removing them would be an issue. 

[PTiberiusM]

9 hours ago, Alberyk said:

-necropolis contractors can't be in security anymore. Why: necropolis contractors were a giant asspull and them having security operations is not even cited in their page.

I like this, lorewise, I hate the Necro-Dominia-Security combo for reasons I went into at length on the Discord. But, them being security is a thing I didn't hate. I can imagine Necro using its security services as a way to advertise its weapons. Like embedded salespeople. I want Necro as a company to be changed more, lorewise, than removing Necro as a security contractor option.

9 hours ago, Alberyk said:

-idris can't be in cargo anymore. Why: they can already be in service and security, I decided to remove cargo because it is the one that probably plays less with their ethos.

Ehhh, I think of Idris as a supplier of service industry drones. Need a warm body to do a thing at rock bottom prices? It makes sense to have Idris in Civilian and Supply as those are the lowest paid, "lowest skill" job on the station. Civ and Supply are paid at the same rates, literally the lowest besides the intern positions. I would rather Necro keep Security and one other and Idris keep Civilian and Supply.

[The lancer]

A lot of people play necropolis security contractors. While people losing or retconning their characters should not stand in the way of progress, I believe that some balances should be met. I am of the opinion that Necropolis being in 3 departments isn't a thing that would justify cutting out security, the thing which most people play necropolis for.

[Uaine]

I have to say I'm a little puzzled about some of the reasoning behind the change to Necropolis. While their wikipage seems to lack this information when you first select the faction, on the character setup you're greeted with this; Personal Security Professional: Excellent customer service and client care is why Necropolis wins security contracts and you know this. A cut above the rest, you are clear, calm, concise and polite when working. As a security force you were voted the top firm to employ and as such, NT Security should really be referring to your better judgement with security issues as far as you're concerned. All crew are your customers and as such deserve a top notch customer experience.

Now what I'd like to know is... is this factual or not? Should we consider the in-game information false from now on and just default to the wiki? ?

I'm not aware of any underlying issues the community in general may have with Necropolis contractors in general, or past histories/lore that might've (Or still isn't) up to par with the standards of this server. What I do know, however, is that a good bit of players have characters invested and recognized as Necropolis Security Contractors. I know some may say that the average Necropolis player is just a validhunting goon, which really isn't the point of this PR I believe anyways, but I've failed to see this happen at the frequency at which people seem to be so quick to affirm. I think there's plenty of good players rolling out as Necropolis contractors in the security department. '

I just have a hard time understanding what the 'asspull' is.

Would it be possible to make some changes to  reduce the amount of contractors instead of outright removing them, or perhaps rewriting pieces of the lore to make it valid? 

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Uaine

[Daemon]

8 hours ago, Uaine said:

Would it be possible to make some changes to  reduce the amount of contractors instead of outright removing them, or perhaps rewriting pieces of the lore to make it valid? 

Agreeing with what Uaine said, should there just be a contractor limit if we want to make it look like NT uses them sparingly?

Edited April 13, 2020 by Daemon

[wowzewow]

I stand firmly that Necropolis being in Security was a mistake, and shouldn't have been in the game in the first place,

i.e, Lore wasn't written for it, and they were implemented as security by accident.

So technically, this is a bugfix. It's kinda stupid to rewrite the LORE because of a bug.

It's like if bicaridine accidentally was turned into a dangerous neurotoxin due to a coding error, and then the lore behind bicaridine was rewritten to say it was a neurotoxin all along!

 

Personally I think Necropolis Security aren't that good in the roleplay department anyway (with an infamous reputation of powergaming, mind you), 

and I think a full retcon wouldn't affect anything. We did it with the Vox, we can do it again.

Edited April 14, 2020 by wowzewow

[geeves]

32 minutes ago, wowzewow said:

[snip]

I agree that the general perception of Necropolis officers are stupid russian goons wearing balaclavas dispensing justice as if they were Dredd, but where's your sources on Necropolis being implemented by mistake, or being a bug? Isn't the security blurb written specifically for them?

EDIT: Vox weren't retconned either, they still exist in lore (as of making this edit), they're just not playable anymore.

Edited April 14, 2020 by geeves

[Doc]

To note, to those unaware: Originally, some short time in the realm of a month or two after contractors were originally implemented, Necropolis' security contractor lore was on the wiki under the late "Contractors" page, along with all of the other lore specific to contractors from our megacorps. This was lore. Canon. IC. It linked to all of the corporation's pages and in most cases vice versa. This page was removed from the wiki and replaced with the on-server blurbs, and this information was purposefully not relocated anywhere else on the wiki because having it on the character creation blurbs was considered 'sufficient' documentation of said information. As can potentially be interpreted through my tone, I disagreed and still disagree with this assessment, and this is exactly why I was so against it, because it is now essentially being erased as non-existent (Wezzy) or dismissed as insufficient (Alberyk), despite the information originally being intended to be canon lore explaining the existence of and reasoning behind these contractors.

TLDR; necropolis has been intended to have security services for as long as we've had contractors (as well as anything else in the on-server blurbs) but the information was purposefully removed from the wiki for raisins, and should not be ignored despite this (whether necropolis should keep security contractors ANYWAY is still up for debate, but this should not be considered in any way one of the reasons for removing them)

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Doc

[SatinsPristOTD]

This is a lot of character retconning for.... them basically doing exactly what the server told them was okay to do. (Contractor explanation blurbs). I really can't get behind this level of retcon just because "necro sec balaclava man bad" memes have gotten to a cringe worthy state. There's a lot of really decent necro sec characters that are well cemented in character interactions (Brett for one).

You can't be disgruntled that players read the information you gave them, made characters based off that information, and did exactly what they were suppose to do. It's the Dominian argument all over again. It isn't your cup of tea, and that's fine.... but the lore was submitted to the playerbase and this sort of retconning isn't a little change. This really causes problems for well known characters (and past character arcs as well as server-large events we've done.)

I'm fine with lore getting progressively better, expanded upon, changed and molded... but outright retconning it for no reason just to "nerf the contractors" is a little much.

[Alberyk]

Lore writers are working on the Necropolis' lore, so they will remain in security. But as I said, none of my reasons were because; I don't like or it is cringe. I recommend reading the topic again, please.

[Carver]

Will we ever see the Visitor role unlocked for the contractor corps, assuming it's possible to remove the assistant sub-title?