[+1 Dismissal] Discourage the use of LOOC for jokes, banter, reactions, and other responses to IC circumstances.

[Kintsugi]

You're roleplaying with a few people. Perhaps you're at the bar - you're all talking, when suddenly the bartender is hit by a bottle spat out by a machine. They're knocked out instantly. Suddenly, LOOC explodes with activity - laughing, funny jokes, etc. Meanwhile, the IC reaction is... muted. If you had LOOC disabled and saw this occur, you'd be puzzled by the spectacle - for a few moments, everybody simply sits there, silently. 

 

This, I feel, is a problem. Why is it that LOOC is used as a vessel for reactions to IC circumstances, when actual IC reaction should be warranted? Why is it that ghost mains are allowed to make funny quips during the course of roleplay, when they specifically chose to opt out of being involved? In my mind, LOOC should be use for OOC purposes: You need to go AFK. You're helping somebody with mechanics. You're having connection troubles. Etc: it is not a vehicle for banter, for humor, or for responses of any kind to IC situations.

Look at this image:

Compare the amount of LOOC reaction to a very funny situation to the amount of IC reaction. Now, I've blanked out the names of the people involved, because they did nothing wrong, so it can be hard to follow--

But in essence, the guy who is stabbed with the syringe after getting out of surgery says "Ow" as his sole reaction. A bystander says goddamnit, and the surgeon says... Nothing. Meanwhile, the people involved are all reacting in LOOC, instead of reacting ICly.

I'm sure we all see this sort of thing happen - and no examples will be necessary as far as the "funny ghost joke in LOOC" thing is concerned. In any case, I do think this is a problem, and I do think it needs to stop. LOOC is not for idle chatter, and it is not what you want to use as a substitute for actual roleplay. It is for OOC matters, nothing more and nothing less.

 

tl;dr: What I'm proposing, essentially, is to keep IC matters IC, and out of LOOC. Reactions included. I'm not saying ban people, but I am saying politely inform people of the change in policy and treat it as you would any other example of IC in LOOC.

[Camellia]

I get that this creates some jarring and weird moments from an ic standpoint but I think in a situation like this, asking people to cut it out over looc would cull a lot of the needless chatter over looc. 

But that's not to say I disagree, there are often a lot of looc chatter I wish didnt happen but as staff, we can't sort out every single situation, people need to ahelp in the end or try to sort it out themselves to a certain degree where they aren't being say, a backseat moderator.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Camellia
Reworded it

[Pratepresidenten]

This would frankly be hard to police. Sometimes a looc funny happens, and some comments are made and thats the end of it. Other times people tend to get into lengthy looc back and fourths. A simple remark for them to just not would be the best thing to do here, as suggested above, or ahelp if the conversation gets out of hand.

We already pinch people for being a shit in ooc mediums, no need to put in more restrictions and take away something that is usually a good thing.

In any case, not a fan of this at all, so Imma drop my vote of dismissal on this.

[DatSamTho]

A hard -1 from me. It's a part of the game and community. Funnie reactions make the boring rounds a little less boring, and if everyone talking about it saw it, it's not really IC OOC. I do agree that there should definetly be IC reactions as well, but I see no reason to limit the OOC ones as well.

Edited January 31, 2021 by tomkiel

[NewOriginalSchwann]

I don't support removing LOOC as an avenue for funny ha-ha commentary by characters in the round, but I do support its total removal from ghosts. Personally, I am sick of the phantasmal comedy brigade inserting itself into the middle of tense situations to go "LOOC Unga Dunga: Whoa this mercenary and security standoff is just like the anime I watched earlier, and you absolutely need to know about this!" Or, in a worst-case scenario, a dead officer/antagonist/whatever loudly screaming in LOOC at their killer (I have had this happen to me before (multiple times)).

 

If you're an observer you've already decided that there are better things to do with your time than participating in the round directly, so why are you still allowed to give epic zingers in the light blue text that everyone nearby gets to see?

[DriedMilk]

Ghosts inserting funny LOOC comment #373838838383 is very annoying when you're roleplaying. The annoyance factor increases when it's the same ckey doing it over and over again throughout multiple rounds where they shoehorn LOOC comments as ghosts all the time to the point it gets annoying.

 

+1 for the LOOC removal of ghosts

 

P.S. If the above mentioned is grounds for a player complaint, I'll happily make it.

Edited January 31, 2021 by DriedMilk

[DeadLantern]

I mostly agree with Danse here, but I agree that it's nigh impossible to police.

Ghosts really have no reason to use LOOC besides shenanigans. Therefore, I support removing LOOC from the ghost role.

Additionally, I push forth the idea of blocking/limiting LOOC during canon rounds. I can't count how many times a funny man made a funny comment during a canon event--canon events are typically more serious and demand a bit more respect to the serious situations that occur. I get that it is hard to police during a normal round, but I really see no reason for LOOC to occur during a canon round besides teaching a new player, and even then, you can just do it in IC or, if you have to, use parentheses.

[Astra]

-1 For all removal of LOOC for ghosts. It can be really useful to communicate with a player, simple examples would be to ask if they want to help out a ghost role, such as golems, dionas and pAIs. And most of my experience with Ghosts talking to my character in LOOC has been very positive, and I'd hate to see it gone.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Astra
minor spelling stuff

[Estoytrucha]

-1 Removing looc for any reason, save, perhaps, ghosts on canon rounds. Not only can users turn it off if they fear their immersion being ruined, ghosts can provide life-saving mechanics information or inform you about a relevant bug before you make a critical mistake. Plus, it seems to just be a risk that comes with any community. Of course, if you have a dead antag/player salting you, you can and SHOULD report it (provided there's any staff available to field the call). I would suggest turning off looc during canon rounds if only to dissuade people from staying to watch and chunking the server.

[HunterRS]

-1 removing ghosts from looc or any reason what so ever. There has been many of times when I am too tired to play a full round but I have witnessed science/robotics have issues that the character should know or they ask a question and I am around to respond. This has even brought to one person saying they are glad ghosts have looc on this server for reasons like these. If ghosts are removed from looc then a lot more ahelps will happen over mechanic stuff when looc can assist just as well.

[Carver]

Can testify that ghost LOOC is often the best source of mechanical questions in a hurry, especially as they're under no pressure to potentially respond to something else like staff may be at any time.

[StationCrab]

Benevolent ghosts have saved my butt a few times when I couldn't figure out a game mechanic. I can see how the chat suddenly flooding with LOOC can be immersion breaking or annoying though. I am guilty of it myself, usually because something hilarious happens but expressing it IC wouldn't make sense (Robot machine no laugh).

It's a tough one, I can see the pros and cons.

[ImmortalRedshirt]

-1 across the board, including removal for ghosts. I see no reason everyone should get a potentially useful tool removed because a few easily dealt with people clog it up, especially since the two other methods of reaching out to a player out of character, those being Global OOC and Discord, are unreliable for different reasons.

[Colfer]

-1 The usefulness vastly outweighs the cons in my opinion, removing it would be like cutting off your leg to clip a toenail. Simply adding a little description to the LOOC text input box that simply has a disclaimer that says "Players can see this message through walls, please do not abuse or overuse LOOC." would be infinitely better rather than having administrator action

[Doxxmedearly]

Pretty much agreeing on all points in the OP. I've noticed it's mostly ghosts inserting their peanut gallery comments, but they have been helpful with mechanics, too. I agree that ghost LOOC should more or less be restricted to just helping people out with mechanics. I don't think any hard policing needs to be done, but we should be able to play without having to worry about someone uninvolved in the round tossing in their two cents or distracting from what's happening IC. If not an official policy, then a direction we try to steer the server towards.

For players in the round, ehhh I don't really care about the banter or laughing. You're involved in the round, that's fine.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Doxxmedearly

[Lmwevil]

ghosts should only offer mechanical tips, there's a reason dchat is different, their peanut gallery is only for other ghosts. 

 

people making quips and gigglin if they're in the round is fine and seems totally fine, if we police this we'll turn into bay where if you looc you can get bwoinked if it's not CRITICAL

[SatinsPristOTD]

-1 for me. I've been taught things by ghosts in LOOC before, and I, myself, have offered advice to players in round when ss13 cord borks itself into loops or absolute banana bullshit.

I'm also against removing/nerfing things just to try and control a minority of bad apples. Just tell them to STFU in LOOC, and if they get mad about it, ahelp it and ask an admin to make them.

[Arrow768]

These are the results of the poll:

Question: Should LOOC be removed from ghosts?

I do not care: 29
Yes: 53
No: 104

Given that and the implementation of the toggle-able ghost-looc this is considered implemented and will be moved to completed projects