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Butterrobber202

Remove Slugs from the Hacked Autolathe Menu.

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Slugs are exclusively used by Security to execute antags that start acting up. They are way to powerful to be a go-to option. Not to mention Security is 100% willing to tell Cargo Techs to hack their lathe to get them.

 

Furthermore, there is no real counter to this either. Because if you destroy the Cargo Lathe, you also need to have destroyed research and stolen the board from tech storage or security will have their arms factory restored in less than a minute.

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I have to agree -- instead replace them with something that does less damage but is more useful... EX: Bola Rounds that go around the ankles maybe? Default tracking rounds - Temperature changing rounds, (hot or cold)

Stuff Like That would be really cool, and better.

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Just now, WickedCybs said:

Maybe slugs could be exclusively orderable from the cargo console instead too? It's a really powerful ammunition type on level with weapons like the LWAP.

Credits are literally no consequence mechanically, Security would just order them in bulk.

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6 minutes ago, Butterrobber202 said:

Credits are literally no consequence mechanically, Security would just order them in bulk.

It would make an added step basically. Since it's a big escalation to start ordering things like bullpups, LWAPs. Having it be easily printable from a lathe is what encourages the beeline for slugs. 

Less a full removal, more a change and more options being added is what would be nice to me.

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They should at least be removed from the autolathe imho. Making them orderable is not a bad idea, the issue is it is simply ammunition and as is brought up there is little to stop it from being ordered. The LWAP has the barrier of cost. A 9k gun is not easy to come by without the checks and balances of another command member, typically a HoP or Captain. Raising slugs to cost that much is not as viable either but they could at least still be made expensive. It would at least add a few more steps, much like the bullpups which I suppose is not a bad compromise.

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4 hours ago, Butterrobber202 said:

Credits are literally no consequence mechanically, Security would just order them in bulk.

The benefit of putting it behind ordering is the time it takes for the items to arrive. Between getting command's approval, putting in the order, the order arriving and being paid for before release, it could take ten minutes. Even more if security decides to leave cargo while the order arrives.

edit: I could be wrong but I think weapons take longer to come in via the shuttle as well. I could however be wrong.

Edited by niennab
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I only generally see slugs ordered when security is having a hard time, so kind of disagree with this being needed.

That said, I would be more okay with this if not for the fact that ordering stuff takes forever. Between getting confirmation, to finding a cargo tech who's actually willing to do their job (Seriously, why is it okay for this department to just do nothing all round?), sorting out funds and then getting the shuttle - which could be easily stopped with antags just waiting for it/cancelling it - chances are the problem has already resolved one way or another.

This is also a nerf to antags wanting to hack lathes for their own ammunition, which has been quite prevalent lately. 

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As is, slugs are the only non-Cargo (shuttle) option for Security that is still good vs armour (with laser rifles doing a measly 8 or so damage vs Syndicate Voidsuits and the cheap/orderable Heavy Armour).

Without them, Security doesn't actually have viable combat options against the average mercenary without having to order more guns or Science possessing the materials and knowledge to create good weapons.

Damage references as follows:

Spoiler

Laser Rifle damage:

lasrifle-synv-syn.png.751e3990ffaee4fbeb67841c818f2238.png

lasrifle-ha-syn.png.eae5e10e9b036caa17fb10b44622fcb0.png

Slug damage:

slug-synv-syn.png.38356762957cbc41d6a158abfab21ee9.png

slug-ha-syn.png.c0be5fc9b24eebe0aa94dabef696e0ef.png

Something of note is that their fire rate isn't all too great, so their burst damage is nowhere near as good as one would expect. While they're strong vs unarmoured people, buckshot is far far stronger.

Edited by Carver
In a further amusing note, Laser Rifles were nerfed further from the examples I gave. I haven't tested them again yet, but they should perform even worse against armour.
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hey wait;

9 hours ago, Butterrobber202 said:

Slugs are exclusively used by Security to execute antags that start acting up. They are way to powerful to be a go-to option. Not to mention Security is 100% willing to tell Cargo Techs to hack their lathe to get them.

I don't think(?) security is allowed to just tell Cargo Techs to do this.

 

just saying.

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just slap people who execute antags? and slap people who force CT's to do their dirty work. Lethal ammo should stay in lathes as it is a potential source of ammo for antagonists.

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31 minutes ago, N8-Toe said:

just slap people who execute antags? and slap people who force CT's to do their dirty work. Lethal ammo should stay in lathes as it is a potential source of ammo for antagonists.

Add a handful of slugs to the uplink for 1 TC.

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3 hours ago, Butterrobber202 said:

Add a handful of slugs to the uplink for 1 TC.

I mean I can dig that as well. but having ammunition be able to be printed could come in handy during rev, or cult rounds or other team antags. Mercs/heisters could resupply on ammo by seizing an autolathe. If the core of this issue is sec executing people with slugs, than the problem is players. If you axe slugs to stop that, they'll just laser them or something

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I disagree with removing slugs from the autolathe. They could stand to be made more excessive, but a hard removal is a no-go. They're a useful tool for both antagonists and security - the latter of which needs them for some specific armors.

Voting for dismissal.

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39 minutes ago, CampinKiller said:

Yeah removing them from the lathe is a terrible idea, as they are most definitely needed by security, and not just for your completely baseless accusation of “executing antags.”

what else are you using shotgun slugs for besides executing antags?

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2 hours ago, MattAtlas said:

I disagree with removing slugs from the autolathe. They could stand to be made more excessive, but a hard removal is a no-go. They're a useful tool for both antagonists and security - the latter of which needs them for some specific armors.

Voting for dismissal.

The problem I'm complaining about stems from the fact security will use slugs regardless if they are facing those specific armors or not, the unarmored vampire is just as likely to catch a slug as a heavily armored syndicate operative.

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5 minutes ago, Butterrobber202 said:

what else are you using shotgun slugs for besides executing antags?

Fighting antags for the most part. People don't execute antags, that happens to typically be against the rules.

Even if you mean executing as hyperbole for fighting antags with slugs, what else is ammunition supposed to be used for? Should all lethal ammunition be removed because security only uses it to fight antags?

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Seconding the vote for dismissal.
The capability to get slugs is needed in certain circumstances.

If security goes straight up for slugs (without it being clear that their other weapons/ammunition is ineffective) then you should ahelp that.

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Slugs are outright foiled by ballistic armor, whereas buckshot is normally foiled by the corporate heavy armor. Thus, with the current antag heavy armor kit (which is essentially very cheap for TC-based antagonists right now, and practically free for mercenaries), it is possible to take zero damage from buckshot and very little, residual damage from slugs.

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